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Were US & Israel Behind the 9/11?

Gideon Polya | 23.12.2007 21:46 | Terror War

"From areas around the Palazzo Chigi, nerve centre of direction of Italian intelligence, it is noted that the non-authenticity of the video is testified from the fact that Osama bin Laden in it 'confessed' that Al Qaeda would have been the author of the attack of the 11 September to the Twin Towers in New York, while all of the democratic areas of, America and of Europe, with in the forefront those of the Italian, centre-left, now know well that the disastrous attack was planned and realized by the American CIA and Mossad with the help of the Zionist world to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and to persuade the Western Powers to intervene in Iraq and Afghanistan For this, no word of solidarity arrived to Silvio Berlusconi, who has been the author of the brilliant falsification, neither from the Quironale nor from Palazzo Chigi, nor from representatives of the centre-left!"

Italian ex-President: CIA & Mossad planed that

The 9/11 atrocity killed 3,000 innocent Americans and was used by Bush as an excuse to wreak havoc across the world from Somalia to Afghanistan (will Iran be next?). The post-invasion excess deaths associated with the Bush War on Terror in Occupied Iraq and Occupied Afghanistan has caused the death of millions of people. (see "State Terrorism" on MWC News). Whoever did 9/11 is accordingly also responsible for the subsequent carnage of the Bush Wars.

The Bush Administration have spun an unbelievable, anti-Arab anti-Semitic, Islamophobic, Hollywood-style, Men in Caves story that the Mainstream media of the Western Murdochracies have made an Article of Faith – anyone who does not accept this story 100% is a fool, delusional, soft on terrorism or a terrorist.

However at long last a distinguished, intelligence insider – former Italian President Francesco Cossiga - has come forward to state that in his perception the CIA and Israeli Mossad planed 9/11 and that major intelligence agencies are well aware of this.

Of course this is the opinion of one man, albeit a very highly placed western political leader with intimate knowledge of intelligence matters.

Who was behind the 9/11 attack? This is best addressed by analysing Motive, Opportunity and Means.

Motive

Addressing the question on the basis of Motive and "Cui Bono?" ("who benefits?") is instructive. After the example of the Gulf War and Sanctions War against Iraq (1990-2003 excess deaths 1.9 million and under-5 infant deaths 1.2 million) it is surely highly implausible to suggest that Muslim-origin non-state terrorists would bring comparable devastation upon their own people – and themselves - by committing such an atrocity against such a dangerous and violent country as America. In contrast, Bush and Zionists have benefited enormously from 9/11 with war, devastation and occupation visited on a swathe of Muslim countries since 9/11 ( Somalia, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan) and with anti-Arab, anti-Semites, Islamophobia and xenophobic, proto-Nazi , civil rights-violating "terrorism" laws employed throughout the world.

Opportunity

In terms of Opportunity, realistically only US Intelligence and Israeli Intelligence had the opportunity given the high level of airport, aeroplane, aviation and general metropolitan security measures in the United States prior to 9/11. Indeed WTC7, the 47 storey WTC building that totally collapsed on 9/11 while not having been hit by planes or having suffered fires, was a New York HQ for US Intelligence and the WTC, having already suffered a bomb attack, was presumably the subject of intense security. The "Official Version" that "Men in Caves" could have done this is absurd.

Means

Leading European Government Ministers and intelligence experts, namely Dr Andreas von Buelow and Horst Ehmke of Germany, have stated that 9/11 required the involvement of a major security service (see "Patriots Question 9/11" ) and General Leonid Ivashov (former chief of Staff of the Russian Armed Forces) has said the same.

Thus it is glaringly obvious that the Bush and Zionist beneficiaries had Motive, Opportunity and Means whereas the "Men in Caves" patently lacked all three. The post-9/11 Bush Administration cover-ups and the rapid, post-9/11 escalation of Bush war, invasion and occupation from Somalia to Afghanistan are consistent with this picture.

And now we have an "intelligence insider" view from former Italian President Francesco Cossiga that the CIA and Mossad were indeed responsible for 9/11 and that all the intelligence services know about it.

Consistent with ex-President Cossiga's expert opinion one can note that the Americans and Israelis had the means (the requisite resources of major intelligence services), the opportunity (completely unimpaired access to normally high security US buildings, airports, planes and airspace) and motive (excuse for invasion and occupation of Muslim countries from Somalia to Afghanistan).

Former President of Italy Francesco Cossiga was a law professor, 7-year president of Italy (a country with a population of about 60 million) and is a Life Senator of Italy. – and accordingly is a person whose expert and insider opinions about 9/11 on November 2007 to leading Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera should be taken very seriously. See the original Italian article in Corriere della Sera).

Now if Professor Cossiga is correct then a Bush--Zionists joint operation was responsible for 9/11, an event which can be seen to have impacted more on human welfare and human rights than any other event since World War 2.

Who can we believe?

Cossiga, is a distinguished Italian leader, president, professor, senator and intelligence-connected politician who has nothing to gain from his admission except the undying hatred of the Bush and Zionists. According to Wikipedia, Cossiga declared his involvement in setting up Operation Gladio, a secret, "stay-behind", underground, anti-communist NATO network in Europe set up in response to the post-war Soviet threat, after Giulio Andreotti (former Italian prime minister) had revealed its existence (see: here and here).

On the other hand, we have the "official version" of the egregiously dishonest, violent, war-criminals Bush Administration – the same people who foisted the following ten utterly false pre-war assertions about Iraq to justify war, specifically: Iraqi possession of weapons of mass destruction, poison gas supplies, bacteriological weapons, mobile germ warfare laboratories, Al-Qaeda links, uranium supplies from Niger, ability to strike the West within 45 minutes, dire threat to the US, dire threat to the UK, and responsibility for 9/11.

For the scepticism of a large number of distinguished, decent, patriotic, American intellectuals, military, scientists and scholars in relation to the "official version" and the "cover-up" see Scholars for 9/11 truth and Patriots Question 9/11.

Yet the Mainstream media and politicians in the Western Murdochracies would still have us believe the "official version".

The "official story" involves 2 planes being hijacked and hitting the Twin Towers which subsequently totally collapsed, as did the adjacent 47 storey WTC building 7; a 3rd plane crashing into the side of the Pentagon; and a 4th plane crashing in Pennsylvania.

Major problems with the official "story" include hijacking with box-cutters; no survivors; extremely inexperienced hijacker pilots hitting the WTC buildings; important evidence consistent with planned demolition of the three WTC buildings (especially the 47 storey WTC7 building that had not been hit by a plane and did not have major fires); "transubstantiation" of 3 huge buildings (and notably the completely undamaged parts) into fine powder in a 10 second "gravitational collapse"; asserted mobile phone calls from high speed planes at high altitude; inexperienced pilots flying a huge jet (with a core height of about 2 stories) just above the ground to hit the Pentagon between the second and third floors, leaving a 18 foot hole without aircraft debris; widely scattered debris of the 4th plane consistent with a missile hit; and the comprehensive failure of the air force to respond to any of the four off-course planes (notwithstanding decades of such rapid responses) (for an analysis of my personal memorial to the 9/11 tragedy see my huge painting "Manhattan Madonna" on MWC News).

A statistical approach to Mainstream media and politician lying by omission and commission over 9/11 has been to assign a probability of 0.1 (10%) to each of a total of 22 very unlikely, contingent, successive parts of the extraordinary "official" story e.g.

Two of these "official story" elements are that a steel-reinforced building will completely mimic expert demolition and be "transubstantiated" into fine powder in a 10 second "gravitational collapse" after a limited fire and that a minimally light aircraft-trained pilot could fly a huge passenger jet into a spot between the second and third floors on the side of the Pentagon. The probability of the overall "official" story being correct then becomes an astronomically low 10-22 (10 to the negative power 22) i.e. the "official" story is almost certainly false.

I place much greater credence on former President Cossiga than on the lying, traitorous Bush administration and Zionists running the Bush War on Terror. Unfortunately Murdoch dominated Western Mainstream media will ensure that most of the American People – enslaved in a pervasively dishonest Murdochracy - won't get to hear about former President Cossiga's perception of who actually did 9/11.

Notwithstanding his eminence, ex-President Cossiga is but one major Western politician offering his PERCEPTION of "who planned the 9/11" - and of "who knows who was behind the 9/11 attack". Americans must insist on the truth and proper judicial exposure of those who actually killed 3,000 Americans on 9/11.

Gideon Polya
- Homepage: http://mwcnews.net/content/view/18569/26/

Comments

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Finest tripe

23.12.2007 22:34

"Major problems with the official "story" include hijacking with box-cutters; no survivors; extremely inexperienced hijacker pilots hitting the WTC buildings; important evidence consistent with planned demolition of the three WTC buildings (especially the 47 storey WTC7 building that had not been hit by a plane and did not have major fires); "transubstantiation" of 3 huge buildings (and notably the completely undamaged parts) into fine powder in a 10 second "gravitational collapse"; asserted mobile phone calls from high speed planes at high altitude"

Well, actually, the areas of sane concern are the doubts over the identities of the hijackers, the level of required operational logistics and foorprint, the skills needed to carry it off, the specific advance warnings, the CIA support of al Qaeda, the links between the Neocons and Saudi...

The use of craft knives, the lack of survivors, the hitting the building with the planes and the pancaking are totally feasible. The demolition thesis is total nonsense.

But I guess the science fiction makes it all much more exciting. But sadly tarnishes any serious challenge to the official story.







Old Soup


Cui bono?

24.12.2007 00:57

How about this for a hypothesis:

A group of Saudi, Wahabbi extremists are selected and trained by an upper class Saudi extremist in exile in Afghanistan backed by elements of the Saudi regime that want to topple the unpopular monarchy and establish a caliphate. These extremists are trained in hijacking and some who may already be skilled pilots are trained in how to seize control of and crash jet liners into specific targets.

The intent of the attack is to provoke a US attack on Saudi Arabia and create the ideal circumstances for seizing power in Saudi whilst destabilising the region and spreading violent Jihad to a possible global level. A US strike on the cradle of Islam would be a gift to al Qaeda.

The extremists on the planes may be being supported by elements of Saudi intelligence/military. They may even be members of those. They are furnished with new idenities.

The attack is successful (perhaps due to the NeoCons looking the other way when they see it coming). But it doesn't go to plan. The US does not attack Saudi. The US keeps Saudi out the picture so there is no public demand for retribution against her. It blames and attacks Afghanistan despite the Taliban (allies) offering to deliver Bin Laden.

I doubt this thesis will catch on as it doesn't mention Jews or holograms and relies on what is already known to be true to set its context and Occam's Razor for the rest.

Paul David Hewson


one track trolling

24.12.2007 08:29

It wouldn't surprise me if most of the comments like these are made by one troll.Rather than concentrate on stories that interest him (almost definitely a him) or posting relevant stuff, my guess is this troll just combs the wire looking to undermine any story with the official version (as can be read in the Murdoch press).

About time Indymedia shut down comments, they only seem to attract unaccountable name-shifting trolls these days.

Paul David Who Son?


Yawn!

24.12.2007 10:05

"looking to undermine any story with the official version"

Don't know what official version you have been reading, but that looks nothing like it.

After trying to fit up Iraq, they decided to fit up Aghanistan. The strory is that some bunch of terrorists were able to hit buildings with jet liners after using Microsoft Flight and a Cessna a few times. Some of the stated identities have been found to be fake. There is a denial that specific warnings were received in advance of the attack.

The official story does not add up.

It's more like a troll just to issue insults without addressing the author.

Paul David Hewson


Comments needed

24.12.2007 10:07

Well as Indymedia seems to be flooded at the moment with many stories trying to blame Jews for the world's problems or trying to link Jews to various terrorist attacks I would have thought the comments are needed to ensure there is some ability to correct these errors.

The current debate over allowing a Holocaust denier to post on the site which produced over 50 comments I would have thought would have shown the importance on comments.

General public


troll on a roll

24.12.2007 10:32

"It's more like a troll just to issue insults without addressing the author."

And you did?

In either of your non de plumes?

"The current debate over allowing a Holocaust denier to post on the site which produced over 50 comments I would have thought would have shown the importance on comments."

3 trolls can make loads of posts.

Still no evidence of holocaust denial though.

If you're not keen on radical views or alternative news, theres shedloads of mainstream sites out there where you play safe to your hearts desire.

Paul David Who Son?


plural

24.12.2007 11:02

You are dealing with at least two people. I posted as Old Soup then expanded up on exactly the same hypothesis using Bono's real name as a joke. But I guess I was taking too much for granted in that being totally obvious.

You would do yourself a favour if you actually familiarised yourself with the subject matter before trying to decide who is trolling. Quite obviously you have done next to no reading on 9/11 and couldn't spot the "official version" if Donny Rumsfeld wetnursed you with it. Though it is interesting that you assume if someone refutes the Mossad hypothesis that they are naturally "trolls".

I engaged the repost by offering up an altrnative hypothesis.

The newswire was spammed last night (UK time) by a (non-UK) antisemitic troll well known to virtually the entire IMC network. He reposted from holocaust denial/ racist sites and a site run by Republicans. All without any criticism or caveat.

Do you not consider racists, holocaust deniers and Republicans to be incompatible with the mission of IMC? Do you think that material from such people should be reposted here without challenge?

Paul David Hewson


Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater

24.12.2007 11:46

If an international incident was started/conducted by Mossad does this therefore mean a slur against the Jewish people? Many of us marched against the Iraq war because we didn't want it in *our* names ... that such attacks and pre-emptive aggression should not be associated with the British. But, let's face it: there are people who live in Israel, the dominant religion of which is Judaism; the Mossad is the Israeli state's intelligence and dirty ops arm (like the CIA is that for the USA). An action by Mossad therefore is the expression of the Israeli state. It becomes very difficult to differentiate whether such actions are expressions of Judaism, Zionism, or merely the rumblings of Israel's geopolitical aspirations for regional dominance.

Dismissing such an accusation because it blames the Jews is false. Is the Iraq war the fault of the Anglicans or the Baptists or the Catholics? Just as with all religions, there are varying shades of fundamentalism and radicalism. But to now throw out the barrier that says to accuse Mossad and the Israeli state of its atrocities is anti-semitic is a false argument ... it is like throwing tin foil out of a plane in order to confuse radar systems. It adds nothing and becomes an insult in itself ... a form of racism because now suddenly Jews are very special people who cannot be accused of acts just because they are Jewish. But, all too often these same Jewsih-protectors will lash out at Moslems on the basis of their creed.

And then throwing holocaust denial in as well merely muddies the waters so that Israel's participation in all of this becomes so indistinct, such a no-go zone. It is the plea of victims: we can do no wrong because once we were victimised. That bullshit, and I would have hoped people at IMC had sufficient sense to peer through that smokescreen without getting their wrists slapped for saying Mossad did something. Or must Mossad be given a golden pass to absolute indemnity no matter what?

Perhaps this was your intent: muddy the waters so much with so many scare words - anti-Semite, holocaust denier, etc. - that no one will get close enough to critically analyse what happened?

Shame on you.

Christine


Holocaust Denier

24.12.2007 12:08

I don't have to prove myself to you, I read the articles in question and I looked at the sites that host the person we are talking about here. He is a clear Holocaust denier and I will not be sucked into your shabby old trick of just calling for more and more references and attacking at a personal level those who bring these rather odius people to the Indymedia readers attention.

I have been reading Indymedia for some months and 90% of what is written and produced here is excellent but the ambiguity displayed by some when it comes to Jews is not welcome. Anti Semitism and what used to be called the left have long been bedfellows I am ashamed to say and there are some here who are continuing it. Before we also get the well worn cries of how I must be a Troll or Neocon or Zionist I want to make clear my stong objection to the illegal Israeli occupation and the treatement of the Palestinian people over the past 50 years. I am no defender of Israeli actions when Israel is in the wrong.

Too many recent contributions to Indymedia are from people we should not give house room to. It is disappointing that this needs to be spelled out and explained to individuals who really should know better.

I am not in a position at the moment to be more involved in the kollective that runs the site but perhaps by June 2008 I will be when my studies finish at this time I would be happy to join if my skills were seen as suitable as I strongly think this issue is tearing the site apart and causing a lot of damage. Indymedia must be in the forefront of the fight against all forms of discrimination and even provide a lead to the MSM who are not.

General public


Its My Cuntry

24.12.2007 12:57

Speaking as a persecuted religious minority who last ruled here 2000 years ago and has now decided to reclaim our homeland from all these foriegn non-druid people who have been living here for that period of time i hereby give notice that you are all to be herded into inner city ghettos (think milton keynes on a bad day) where your water and sanitation will be shut off as will your electricity and your heating, we will then occupy your fields and country homes whilst conducting clearance operations to remove you from our territory, should any of you wish to stay we will of course provide you with 2nd class citizen status and give you a nice yellow Badge which denotes you as a non-druid (must be worn at all times).

Welcome to our new modern democratic religious state.

All this because of sommat that MAY have happened 2000 yars ago.

Could someone please explain to me the difference between a nuke armed religious state full of strange woman hating Men of faith (iran/israel) they are but 2 types of the same evil....

Mr Druid


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Sarcasm often a good beginning for a serious discussion

24.12.2007 14:04

Well Mr. Druid, if we can ignore that "MAY" could discuss this seriously (or did you really mean to insert doubt about whether there were druids in Britain 200 years ago?).

Apparently you consider 2000 years to be too long a period of time. That what's lost by adverse possession that long is simply lost. Now that's not an entirely unreasonable position but it leaves too much in the air. You need to tell us what you consider "too long" vs "not too long". How about 1000 years? How about 500 years? How about 300 years or 200 years or 100 years? How about less, like 50 years or 30 years or 10 years?

How about 3 months? In other words, if I blast you out of your house and manage to hold it against you for 3 months it's mine now? Does it matter that you were TRYING to get back in all that time? How about every so often over those 2000 years?

How about we discuss some of this from the other side. Care to make the case that because you managed to take firm control of Ireland 500 years ago the Irish were wrong to fight for their escape? How about India? Care to make the case that the Africans, upon regainign their independence form your rule and occupation were wrong to dispossess the white farmers? Care to discuss the rights and wrongs of New Zealand?

Mike Novack
mail e-mail: stepbystpefarm ,a> mtdata.com


Antisemitism, racism and holocaust denial

24.12.2007 14:25

See here before shooting your mouth off:

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/12/388375.html?c=all

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/12/388356.html?c=all

The poster has posted much, much worse in the past. He is obsessed with Jews/Israel/Mossad and conspiracy theories that assert that Jews run America and Israel is repsonsible for any given terrorist attack. That not a tad telling? That not a warning sign?

These articles are still visible on the frint page despite the clear agenda of the sites having been flagged up. And admins have since been active hiding comments. This is nothing new on this site.

Racists, Republicans and associates of the KKK are obviously now deemed worthy, veracious sources.

That aside the fact that someone can (repeatedly) post a theory based on no evidence whatsoever that Israel did 9/11 and no one bats an eyelid, but if you simply copy the method and concoct a theory involving Bin Laden's (and the supposed hijackers' ) homeland people suddenly leap out screaming.

Scientific proof of bias.

Paul David Hewson


Slurs Used To Stifle Debate

24.12.2007 15:53

Notice that, as is true of virtually any post concerning 9/11, the Plant(s), Troll(s) don't actually produce any viable or honest counter-argument, they simply Libel the people posting the information, and ridicule the original authors.

Their very need to post suggests that 'someone' is concerned enough about these discussions to dispatch these nasty little parasites to the IMC.

"The poster has posted much, much worse in the past."

And you know this how, exactly?

Where is the evidence to support your allegations?

"That aside the fact that someone can post a theory based on no evidence whatsoever"

These are the statements of an informed source, not a 'theory'. What he is questioning is an unsupported, and quite ludicrous, Conspiracy Theory, that has remained unproven for six and a half years, while its authors have used it to 'justify' the most horrific international crimes and an indefensible agenda. As they are know to do.

The evidence, however, points directly to the agencies this former diplomat fingers for the crime.

 http://www.911truth.org

Now, if you have nothing more credible to say, I think you're about done here.

Plant.

911=PNAC, CIA, Mossad


Viva voce?

24.12.2007 16:39

Libel? "911=PNAC, CIA, Mossad" is your real name then? Explains a lot about your development if you had to go to school with that. I take it it was militia home schooling in Oklahoma.

Scroogle it here and a whole host stupid pseudonyms like 'Zionism, irrelevant within a generation' and see the piles of Jew obsessed junk.

You denying reposting from antisemitic, holocaust denial sites likes, rense, nimmo, WRH, AFP? Mossad been posting that stuff under your handle to blacken your good name here?

We know it's you because we at the Tabernacle are using HAARP to penetrate your tinfoil and read your thoughts. There are only two people who regularly spam UK IMC with Jewphobic conspiracy dross and only one of them has a limited supply of monikers referencing Israel/Mossad/Zionism.

Fantastic! What a yardstick of research. Back up a bogus claim with someone else making the same bogus empty claim. The Pope and Karl Rove would be proud of you. Where is the evidence of Mossad being involved in comission or execution of 9/11. The lack of question mark is intentional.

The onus is on you to defend your thesis, not for me to attempt the impossible and prove non-existence. If Ariel Sharon were to say it, I'd still demand some sort of proof. Unlike some people I do like to base my opinions on what is plausible rather than what I like the sound of.

Look at some of the total fruitcakes that site links to! This one is my favourite:

 http://www.freepressinternational.com/?cat=10

Paul David Hewson


Are US and Israel....

24.12.2007 16:52

...behind the 9/11 Truth movement?

Would be a more plausible question.

Pitiful fuckwits, doing the neocons dirty work for free by promoting thieir crap conspiracy theories.

Big Lizard


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

real simple, Jordan

24.12.2007 17:19

"And you know this how, exactly?"

Can't speak for "bono," but it's not exactly a secret, what you do, Jordan. Your posting style is so distinctive I could train a goldfish to recognize it, starting with your insistence that anyone who disagrees with you is a Plant (not a plant but a Plant). If you imagine that you're actually succeeding in looking like as many people as you pretend to be, Jordan, let me be the first to assure you that you're failing pretty badly.

@%<

gehrig


Plant Proves My Points

24.12.2007 18:01

"We know it's you because ..."

You didn't answer the question, Plant.

Thanks for proving my points.

Notice that, as is true of virtually any post concerning 9/11, the Plant(s), Troll(s) don't actually produce any viable or honest counter-argument, they simply Libel the people posting the information, and ridicule the original authors.

Their very need to post suggests that 'someone' is concerned enough about these discussions to dispatch these nasty little parasites to the IMC.

"The poster has posted much, much worse in the past."

And you know this how, exactly?

Where is the evidence to support your allegations?

"That aside the fact that someone can post a theory based on no evidence whatsoever"

These are the statements of an informed source, not a 'theory'. What he is questioning is an unsupported, and quite ludicrous, Conspiracy Theory, that has remained unproven for six and a half years, while its authors have used it to 'justify' the most horrific international crimes and an indefensible agenda. As they are know to do.

The evidence, however, points directly to the agencies this former diplomat fingers for the crime.

 http://www.911truth.org

Now, if you have nothing more credible to say, I think you're about done here.

Plant.


911=PNAC, CIA, Mossad


The usual evasion tactic

24.12.2007 18:29

As usual when challenged to defend his rubbish, he issues an insult and wastes bandwidth by padding the rest out with his last comment reposted. Thus making it look like he's doing more than issuing an insult and evading the demand for evidence.

So again. Where is the evidence that Mossad was involved in the comission or execution of 9/11?

I expect a repeat of the usual tactic.

Paul David Hewson


Oh, Just Quit While You're 'Ahead'

24.12.2007 19:34

The arrests of great numbers of Israeli spies arrested that day, as well as the reports of the failed bombing of the George Washington bridge, prove Israel's involvement, as do the statements from this informed source.

Thanks for again proving my points.

Notice that, as is true of virtually any post concerning 9/11, the Plant(s), Troll(s) don't actually produce any viable or honest counter-argument, they simply Libel the people posting the information, and ridicule the original authors.

Their very need to post suggests that 'someone' is concerned enough about these discussions to dispatch these nasty little parasites to the IMC.

Still no answer to the previous question.

Thought not.

 http://www.911truth.org

Now, if you have nothing more credible to say, I think you're about done here.

Plant.

911=PNAC, CIA, Mossad


diclosure/discovery

24.12.2007 19:53

"The arrests of great numbers of Israeli spies arrested that day, as well as the reports of the failed bombing of the George Washington bridge, prove Israel's involvement, as do the statements from this informed source."

Okay, I'll for just a moment suspend the first test and not ask for copies of the arrest sheets and official papers that confirm their "isreali spy" status and pretend for a second they exist. Because the previous question stills stands and will decide whether the documents are relevant.

The next test would be, "Where is the prrof that they were involved in the commision or execution of 9/11?"

Where are the wintness statements sworn under oath, or the forensic evidence, or the confessions? What can you provide to support your assertion that they were in comission/execution of the 9/11 attacks?


"Still no answer to the previous question."

What questions? Why am I dutibound to reply to any questiosn that don't seek clarification of my questions on your thesis? I'll save you the time by telling you I don't.

The protocol of viva voce is that the author defends their thesis. I ask; you defend.

That's how scientific reseach works. I can't quite imagine a peer review journal or doctoral thesis panel tolerating random insults, prevarication, evasion and attempts to smear the peers.

This is fundamental stuff in scientific research.

Paul David Hewson


Quite Clear

24.12.2007 20:20

The arrests of great numbers of Israeli spies arrested that day, as well as the reports of the failed bombing of the George Washington bridge, prove Israel's involvement, as do the statements from this informed source.

Thanks for again for further proving my points with your Straw Men.

Notice that, as is true of virtually any post concerning 9/11, the Plant(s), Troll(s) don't actually produce any viable or honest counter-argument, they simply Libel the people posting the information, and ridicule the original authors.

Their very need to post suggests that 'someone' is concerned enough about these discussions to dispatch these nasty little parasites to the IMC.

Still no answer to the previous question.

Thought not.

 http://www.911truth.org

Now, if you have nothing more credible to say, I think you're about done here.

Plant.

911=PNAC, CIA, Mossad


Conclusion

24.12.2007 20:56

So you have failed repeatedly to provide any evidence at all, let alone any that has been subject to faulty controls and protocols.

Which means that your thesis is a non-thesis. It is mere opinion. You have browsed a gamut of conspiracy theories and simply made a choice to adopt this one on the basis of no evidence or research whatsoever. You simply liked the sound of it. You have offered therefore nothing but your prejudice. You made no effort to test the veracity of the claims you have adopted. Made no attempts to acquire hard evidence and no effort to test the theory.

There are no straw men in viva voce. There is only challenge and defnece on the basis of evidence.

You provided no evidence to support that Mossad were involved in the comission or execution of 9/11.

The theory as presented is failed.

Paul David Hewson


No

24.12.2007 21:35

(as such)

King Amdo


Follow the Link, Follow the Evidence

28.12.2007 00:57

"So you have failed repeatedly to provide any ..."

Sorry, you and those you represent have failed. That's why nobody buys their story any longer, and are eager to learn the truth about what happened.

"There are no straw men in ..."

Your entire line is a Straw Man.

Thanks for again for further proving my points with your Straw Men.

Notice that, as is true of virtually any post concerning 9/11, the Plant(s), Troll(s) don't actually produce any viable or honest counter-argument, they simply Libel the people posting the information, and ridicule the original authors.

Their very need to post suggests that 'someone' is concerned enough about these discussions to dispatch these nasty little parasites to the IMC.

Still no answer to the previous question.

Thought not.

 http://www.911truth.org

Now, if you have nothing more credible to say, I think you're about done here.

Plant.

911=PNAC, CIA, Mossad


many countries have benefited from war on terror

28.12.2007 10:15

Not just the US, but Russia, China and many other countries have benefited from the 'war on terror' by attacking other countries and attacking civil liberties in their own country. Britain is such a example. Many middle-east countries and European countries are involved in redition flights, and central and west asia dictatorships have been given support because they have signed up to the 'war on terror'.
Al-Quada are the biggest gainers of the 'war on terror', because they manged to tempt America into unwinnable wars in Afghinistan and Iraq. And now because of these 'Christian' occupations and invasions the Al-Quada network is getting stronger. In Pakistan they just assassinated Bhutto, and they no doubt have support within the Pakistan millitary.
To suggest that 9/11 was planned by the US is nonsense. The invasions of Iraq and Afghnistan were total military disasters and the only winners seem to be Al-Quada.

TO


Still At It?

28.12.2007 23:09

"Not just the US, but Russia, China and ..."

Only the US Neo-Fascists and those in Israel PLANNED this program of military expansionism and Aggression before 911, and called for some 'useful crisis' to get the whole thing started.

Read "Rebuilding America's Defenses" at  http://www.pnac.org - pay close attention to the authors' names.

"Many middle-east countries and European countries are involved in redition flights"

Yes, on behalf of the CIA and Mossad.

"Al-Quada are the biggest gainers of the 'war on terror'

'Al Qaeda' is an invention of these intelligence services, a database of "Assets", nothing more. Since then, they've been given all the characteristics of Orwell's Emmanuel Goldstein.

"they manged to tempt America into unwinnable wars in Afghinistan and Iraq"

No, those illegal wars were plotted long before 911. They were only enabled by an American public who took no action when an unelected Regime of criminals was installed to DC, then 911 silenced those who were trying (as well as the results of the Florida recount, due out that very day!).

"In Pakistan they just assassinated Bhutto"

No, that also appears to have been an intelligence operation, whether ISI, CIA, or what have you.

"To suggest that 9/11 was planned by the US is nonsense."

No, acepting what a bunch of Pathological, murderous LIARS have told you, completely devoid of evidence or investigation, is nonsensical. Asking questions in the face of this is only logical.

Following the evidence to its conclusion is also logical.

 http://www.911truth.org

Now, if you have nothing more credible to say, I think you're about done here.

Plant.




911=PNAC, CIA, Mossad


"Following the evidence to its conclusion is also logical. "

30.12.2007 12:28

"Only the US Neo-Fascists and those in Israel PLANNED this"

Cough up the damning evidence. Or is the PNAC paper on restructuring US homeland defence equal a blueprint for you?


Anyway, back to the topic of evidence snce you brought it up again.

Anyone who has even made it to their final year of a remotely scientific degree will know that the evidenciary process is the opposite of speculation. Science is spends more time disproving than it does proving. A process more akin to running the gauntlet than running a marathon. Here's how it is supposed to work:

1. Gather data
2. Extrapolate hypotheses from data
3. Try and eliminate all non-viable hypotheses by disproving them
4. The hypothesis that is still standing is the most viable, but however may still lack all the credentials to be called true- if so then goto 1.

So basically research it mostly about attacking ideas. Firstly your own by yourself; you start by doubting all your own assumptions and try prove yourself wrong. And then at the viva voce/ peer review stage your conclusion is attacked by 3rd parties.

The reason why you are unable to defend yourself in viva voce is that you have failed to A, gather any primary data and B, to subject any assumptions to attack. It's all just made up junk.

Paul David Hewson


The Evidence Has Been Followed

30.12.2007 23:22

"Paul" (S?), do you have anything to say in relation to the actual article posted here?

You can try to put those questioning Bush/PNAC on the defensive, and utilize Sophistry, but nothing can hide the fact that you, nor the Fascists you're weakly running interference for on this site, have been able to support their version of events in all the time that's passed.

"Cough up the damning evidence."

 http://www.911truth.org
 http://www.patriotsquestion911.com

I trust people to do their own research.

The fact that you're here, and cannot simply prove your case, well over six years after the fact, undermines the official Conspiracy Theory fed to us by these lying war criminals, in order to embark on a disastrous, premeditated war against the whole of the Arab world.

"Or is the PNAC paper on restructuring US homeland defence equal a blueprint for you?"

It's not about 'homeland defence' (though it's interesting that the term was used, before 911). It's about US military intervention the world over. I love the part which calls for "start(ing) and decisively win(ning) two major theatre wars". Guess that didn't quite go as planned ...

You could call this the "Mein Kampf" of our time ...

"Anyone who has even made it to their final year of a remotely scientific degree will know that the evidenciary process is the opposite of speculation."

People in criminal justice fields understand that informed speculation, based on the evidence, possible motives, the situation and players involved, is vital to building theories which can then be proved or disproved.

And Occam's Razor is satisfied by the CIA/Mossad explanation, based on the available evidence, the many disputed or outright refuted portions of the Official Conspiracy Theory, the inability of the Bush/PNAC liars to respond to these, and the players and forces involved.

Accepting what a bunch of Pathological, murderous LIARS have told you, completely devoid of evidence or investigation, is nonsensical. Asking questions in the face of this is only logical.

Following the evidence to its conclusion is also logical.

 http://www.911truth.org

Now, if you have nothing more credible to say, I think you're about done here.

Plant.


911=PNAC, CIA, Mossad


Still no evidence and yet more evasion

31.12.2007 02:16

"do you have anything to say in relation to the actual article posted here?"

Another diversion. But anyway, the article draws on too many fallacious theories and the biggest give away of it being crap is that it sets up the age old false opposition "either believe me or believe them". It's a favourite of authoritarian tossers since the Yahweh gang put Baal's acolytes to the sword...

I have had a little look at the "official version" and it seems shot full of problems and omissions and some of it is straight out of the Compendium of Rubbish Fairy Tales.

But your theory is just as bad and seemingly even less effort went into it since you can't even start to defend it. You made a statement which you can't back up. That's the long and short of it.

"People in criminal justice fields understand that informed speculation, based on the evidence, possible motives, the situation and players involved, is vital to building theories which can then be proved or disproved."

Professional opinions in a court need to follow the same standards as scientific research. They are used as a shortcut to experience, otherwise the judge and jury would have to recess for for a few decades.

In a legal scenario the defense and prosecution would have their own experts and both would viva voce any claims that were beyond the realms of accepted research, in a similar fashion to peer review.

In other words, the same rules apply. If you can't provide the evidence the judge should rule it inadmissable when the opposite side calls on it.

And you haven't supplied any evidence to "build on" yet.

"Accepting what a bunch of Pathological, murderous LIARS have told you, completely devoid of evidence or investigation, is nonsensical. Asking questions in the face of this is only logical."

There you go again. For the nth time, I don't accept the official version.

I am indeed asking questions. I am asking for the evidence on which you base your claims.


"I trust people to do their own research."

And that is just plainly ridiculous. You know want me to do your research for you. Because you can't answer the request for evidence. Diversion.

You'd be as well tossing me a dictionary and saying "It's all in there!"

Paul David Hewson


Indeed, Didn't Expect Anything Else

31.12.2007 04:49

You can try to put those questioning Bush/PNAC on the defensive, and utilize Sophistry, but nothing can hide the fact that you, nor the Fascists you're weakly running interference for on this site, have been able to support their version of events in all the time that's passed.

 http://www.911truth.org
 http://www.patriotsquestion911.com

The fact that you're here, and cannot simply prove your case, well over six years after the fact, undermines the official Conspiracy Theory fed to us by these lying war criminals, in order to embark on a disastrous, premeditated war against the whole of the Arab world.

Occam's Razor is satisfied by the CIA/Mossad explanation, based on the available evidence, the many disputed or outright refuted portions of the Official Conspiracy Theory, the inability of the Bush/PNAC liars to respond to these, and the players and forces involved.

Accepting what a bunch of Pathological, murderous LIARS have told you, completely devoid of evidence or investigation, is nonsensical. Asking questions in the face of this is only logical.

Following the evidence to its conclusion is also logical.

 http://www.911truth.org

Now, if you have nothing more credible to say, I think you're about done here.

911=PNAC, CIA, Mossad


Indeed, [I] Didn't Expect Anything Else

31.12.2007 12:29

I take it the pronoun you missed out was 3rd person singular.

Again, you provide no evidence. Again, you admit by default to spreading disinformation.

Paul David Hewson


Thanks for Proving the Point

01.01.2008 00:32

As noted and predicted, you provide no evidence. Again, you admit by default to spreading disinformation.

911=PNAC, CIA, Mossad


The pleasure was all mine.

01.01.2008 13:32

You failed a viva voce- I would have said spectacularly, but that would require something dramatic to have happened to constitute a spectacle. So it's just a lonely old 'failed'.

You refuse to withdraw or caveat your claims. You are therefore a proven disinformationist.

Paul David Hewson


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