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Meat eating, it will kill you - time for it to be banned

Vegan | 14.03.2012 10:24 | Animal Liberation

Researchers from the Harvard Medical School in the US studies 120,000 people over three decades have discovered that eating red meat will decrease life expectancy.

Time to ban eating meat now as a matter of public health. Feeding meat to children should be considered child abuse and the parents prosecuted.


Eating one extra portion of red meat per day will increase the risk of death by up to 13%.
Although processed meat, which is usually ostracised by dieticians for being pumped full of rubbish, was found to be the most dangerous, it was found that eating unprocessed meat still caused higher rates of mortality from cancer and cardiovascular problems than not eating it at all.

Indeed, eating just one portion extra of red meat a day can lead to a 13% increase in the risk of death. This is thought to be due to the higher levels of saturated fat in such meats, as well as the sodium used when processing.


This evidence points clearly to the need for a ban on all meat eating to protect public health. There can no longer be any argument on this issue - eating meat kills you.

Vegan

Comments

Hide the following 52 comments

Know the risk, make the choice

14.03.2012 11:26

Plenty of things are likely to shorten your life, riding a motorbike, smoking cigarettes, rock climbing, living in Columbia etc but that's no reason to start banning them. The key thing is we give people accurate information and allow them to make their own choice.

I don't want to live in a society where politicians (or worse animal rights activists) decide what is good for me.

Hockey player


Truth!

14.03.2012 12:04

Please watch A Delicate Balance film and then make your mind up!
Then again,to qoute Bill Hicks..carry on eating meat....and we'll only lose one less moron in the world!!
Sod doin you any favours donna know why AR movement does...
Hey trolly you love yer brickbats huh!!

Info head


Choice

14.03.2012 12:12

There are some issues where a well informed, educated minority do have to take decisions on behalf of the broader population for their own good. This is quite obviously one of them, in the same way that people are made to wear seat belts for their own good they should be banned from eating meat for the same reason.

Vegan


Take a closer look at what you just said

14.03.2012 12:41

"here are some issues where a well informed, educated minority do have to take decisions on behalf of the broader population for their own good"

My oh my ---- and just who appointed you our benevolent dictator?

We can document THIS argument in Western Civ at least a sfar back as Plato vs Aristotle.

Please note:

1) You and your ilk have NOT been appointed to this position of rule over us. It doesn't matter than you know better than us what is in our own best interest. We do not accept it.

2) You aren't prepared to kill (other) animals but you are prepared to kill fellow humans? Because THAT is what is necessary in order to assume and hiold on to dictatorial powers.

Understand what I am saying here? I am NOT arguing for or against eating meat, just your attitude that you don't have to convince the meat eating (vast) majority to give up meat.

And please -- the only really valid arguments are moral ones. There are health arguments and environmental arguments for eating less meat, even a lot less meat. But not valid for eating NO meat (which is the position you intend). Presenting erroneous "facts" and then conclusions that do not follow from these facts does not help your case.

MDN


In reply to MDN

14.03.2012 13:03

All you have proven is why some people should not have the choice talked about above. You have failed to see the problem or the cure.

Vegan


True or false, you decide...

14.03.2012 13:21

"There are health arguments and environmental arguments for eating less meat, even a lot less meat. But not valid for eating NO meat (which is the position you intend)" <------ Erm, actually even the United Nations has declared that the only way to stave off world hunger and catastrophc climate change is a vegan diet!

Corrector
- Homepage: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/02/un-report-meat-free-diet


It won't kill me!

14.03.2012 13:33

Cos I don't eat it! Others can make their own choice.

Happy Vegan


Boy are you missing out 'happy vegan'

14.03.2012 13:50

Isn't 'happy vegan' an oxymoron ?


Monsanto Propaganda

14.03.2012 14:00

Pasture fed animals build topsoil.
Annual grains and beans are bleeding our Mother dry.
We are part of a cyclical web, not at the top of a linear hierarchy.

Animism Anarchist


Food is not the only problem

14.03.2012 14:00

The issue is not just food but the number of people living on our planet. China has already shown us how a one child policy can effectivley control population growth and that should be introduced throughout the world immediately. In addition there is already a strong argument to screen potential parents based on intelligence, genetic predisposition to illness etc.

Only by controlling the number of people through contraception, education and legislation can the planet survive. We can't support what we have now, another billion will kill us all.

1 of far too many


The real face of veganism! Authoritarian asshole..

14.03.2012 14:01

No wonder people avoid listening to Vegans because of wankers like the vegan posting above and I speak as a vegatarian. Little person you sound like a fascist looney and send AR back to the dark ages....

Aunty Christ


troll alert!

14.03.2012 14:33

Sounds like some non-vegan is on here trolling as "Vegan" again...

How about we just leave animals to live in freedom without us interfering in their lives? Surely that isn't too much to ask? You can't hate freedom that much, can you?

It is fine to say it is a self-solving problem because meat-eaters will die off sooner, but that is no consolation to all the animals that are abused and tortured in farms. It beggars belief to see the cruelty that goes on in these places. Absolute scum.

real vegan


Nobody cares what you think 'Aunty Christ '

14.03.2012 14:56

If you were really a vegetarian (which is just a step to proper Veganism anyway) you would see the good sense of what I have written and the importance of it. The very fact that you do not recognise that feeding meat to those under 16 is child abuse tells me everything I need to know about you.

Vegan


Screening potential parents ??????????

14.03.2012 15:01

Some idiot about wrote,

..............."there is already a strong argument to screen potential parents based on intelligence, genetic predisposition to illness etc. "

Well the last time I looked that was called Eugenics and was a pretty bad thing. The world may be fucked up but we sure don't need the AR movement adopting Nazi ideology.

Action T4 - not in my name


"Real Vegan"... I don't think so

14.03.2012 15:05

So now we have some troll calling themselves "Real Vegan" who told us,
"It is fine to say it is a self-solving problem because meat-eaters will die off sooner"

Well in case you had not realised "real vegan" for those meat-eaters to die off sooner they will need to keep on eating meat and thus abusing animals ergo your argument is flawed and let's be honest you are not a vegan at all are you because a vegan would never have written those words.

Vegan


This is a simple moral argument

14.03.2012 15:34

The health benefits of a Vegan diet are clear as is the moral argument. Can you imagine a world where it was acceptable to breed in slave camps say Chinese people, rape their woman to force them to produce milk, kill their babies because the meat is more tender and steal their unborn eggs because we like them boiled alive because that's what we are doing now.

We are breeding other sentient creatures cows, sheep and chickens keeping them enslaved in concentration camps, raping them, killing their babies and eating them.

I now find myself unable to look in the face or be near most meat eaters, they stink of death and decay and remind me of SS guards.

Vegan since the age of 13


Lets be adults please, these animals are dying for nothing.

14.03.2012 15:36

"Well in case you had not realised "real vegan" for those meat-eaters to die off sooner they will need to keep on eating meat and thus abusing animals ergo your argument is flawed and let's be honest you are not a vegan at all are you because a vegan would never have written those words."

There's nothing wrong with not eating meat.

A better argument than telling people what they shouldn't do is to point out the inherent waste that most people are responsible for on a daily basis which, when magnified, build into a very unpleasant picture.

For instance the majority of all meat in supermarkets which is packaged in non-degradeable packaging is simply discarded as unbought. This means that supermarkets and food producers are slaughtering animals and the majority of that carcas is simply discarded to rot away in bins or landfill. If you take all the animals slaughtered in a year, the bulk of any animal will simply be thrown away but only after its meat has been cut up into segments and sucked into clingfilm and polystyrene. This is the very essense of waste.

So you have in this subject a very good animal rights point to make which can, with a little care and attention, be married to a very coherent anti-capitalist point.

To be honest with you, the original article does look like yet more trolling because having met many vegans over the years, I've yet to meet any that sound as stupid in real life as this article reads!

Vegan


Well

14.03.2012 15:51

people will consume dead bodies and now here they have it ..

Death will consume them before their time.

Fair do's imo.

another Vegan


Such a shame

14.03.2012 16:30

In one sentence the poster above has illustrated all to well how far the AR movement is from mainstream opinion not to mention reality and why its once great fight is in decline.

I can not begin to imagine how a rape survivor feels being compared to a milking cow or a Holocaust survivor to a farm animal. To equate the two is offensive, naive, unproductive and unhelpful.






"We are breeding other sentient creatures cows, sheep and chickens keeping them enslaved in concentration camps, raping them, killing their babies and eating them. "

Vegetarian, not that it matters


F'ing hell people, what's wrong with ya?

14.03.2012 16:37

I'm not a vegan, I'm not a vegetarian either. Just to be clear.
Also, I'm not a fan of industrial food producion, let it be vegetables, animals or mushrooms
But you people represent everything that is wrong with the AR attitude. I spell it to you: animals are eating animals all the time. ALL THE TIME. In massive quantity. Just an example:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBd4sNHBnYc

Or would you say that we should ban dolphins, sharks, fishing birds, etc.?

I don't mind that you don't want to eat meet, drink milk, eat eggs. That's your CHOICE. My choice is different. If the animal rights would be about bringing down the industrial food production, fine. I slaughtered chicken but I was the one who fed them, I was the one who saved the chicks from the dog, and look after them. Slaughtering is not easy, and if people won't get meat in plastic bags and boxes, they will consider whether they really can face with the killing, or not for their passion.

Interestingly, most of my vegan/vegetarian friends doesn't want to go for a crusade, doesn't want to convert people but shares their advice whoever wants it, and they are lovely as anyone else. But you... I can't find words for your idiocy.

Well informed minority my arse.

Shelter of Crime


@Vegetarian, not that it matters

14.03.2012 17:01

Such a shame you're all going to die early? ... I agree. Your choice though.

Vegan_x


not conclusive

14.03.2012 18:03

The study is very suspect. It is purely observational and not controlled. For instance, more of the red meat eaters also exercised less, drank more and smoked more. What's worse... is that made distinction between natural grassfed meat and processed meat. That's lazy as there are already plenty of studies into the differences and merits of grassfed meat over grain fed which has dramatically less omrga-3 and lot more omega-6. There is also lot studies dissing vegan diets with kids getting rickets and bone deformities.

They need to do controlled studies. I eat meat Inc red, but I don't smoke do tons of exercise and rarely drink and don't eat much processed foods. This hasn't been factored into the study as far as I'm aware. They have only derived a correlation through observation. If more red meat eaters lead an unhealthy lifestyle such as figs and booze then yes of cause they are going to more likely get cancer.

max


Oxy moron

14.03.2012 18:18

If you think Jamie fucking Oliver is the height of great cuisine, I'd say it's you that's missing out Oxy Moron!

This thread is full of nutters (wasn't including you in that Oxy, you've just got low standards)!

Happy Vegan


The world is anarchic

14.03.2012 20:31

therefore people will do as they please, regardless of what others think or say.

Humans have canine teeth for a reason too.

deal with it


meat eating reduces life expectancy...

14.03.2012 20:32

of the animals being eaten!
They don't get a choice about it. So if you follow the Non Aggression Principle, you can act in defence of the animals, but you can't dictate what people can and can't do for their own welfare. It is their choice wether they take drugs, eat unhealthy food, smoke or what ever, so long as they don't break the N.A.P. it is their prerogative. This idea of enforced "caring" sounds like the violence STATISM to me, like war on drugs, war on terror, war on anything that makes a bit of money for someone with influence. So if you interfere with my liberty YOU are breaking the Non Aggression Principle, so watch out!

anarchist


Perhaps we should...

14.03.2012 21:00

Perhaps we should start eating vegetarians. They are concentrated vegetables after all.

ktf


Eating vegetarians

14.03.2012 22:12

Funny. Reminds me of a stanza from a Roger MacGough poem from 40 years ago -
"There are fascists,
Pretending to be humanitarians,
Like cannibals on a health-kick,
Only eating vegetarians."

Happy Vegan


Science of Evolution Does Tell a Story.

15.03.2012 02:57

All the silly arguments that this thread is making does not contain any scientific evidence. Typical of Bourgeois polls, education, and disinformation that simply does not allow for truth or thruthers to get their vision into the media. So here is a little info for you all to chew on.

The length of your gut is derived as such in our specie by eating meals that are half meat, and half vegetables. If you understand that herbivorous animals eat only plants, and that fact of living causes a greater length of gut for the animals to get full nourishment out of the green veggies.

Carnivours animals eat only meat, and they in turn have the shortest gut, because the meat contains so much more nutrient and strenght inside of it. When using these two various forms of life as a comparison it is possible to see our own evolution, and guess what. It shows that our middle length of gut is caused because we have evolved for millions of years eating equal portions of meat and ecological organic green veggies and berries, nuts etc. That is a materialists way of arriving at truth.

The argument that only vegan is best or vegtables diet vegetarianism is best is slightly one sided and does not take into full genetic make up of our very particular specie. For instance it is true that eating only veggies if they are grown by the agricultural organic methods, then that is for sure better than consuming Monopoly Capitalist Factory food whether it is plant or animal. That is because they are excessively poisoned, hormonized, enzymized, drugged with speed up or slow down and dyed particular colours to suit the 'monopoly concious housewife' that only looks at the superficial brightness of the commondity product.

For instance, the house wife does not buy potatoes that grow sprouts in winter the salesmen for agribuiz figured out, that potatoe sprouts in spring time looks to her as too vulgar. For that reason alone the last solution wash on a potatoe is a poison that kills the bud and stops the potatoe from sprouting. Effectively the potatoe in the Super market is brilliant and looks perfect. However I would just as soon eat a live potatoe with sprouts in the spring time than eat a dead poisoned potatoe that looks brilliant. Not to mention the ignorance of GMO's. etc.

Multiply this form of exploitation of domestic plants or animals many and womany times over and you can see the danger that the so-called report says it will kill you. However whether you eat polluted meat from chickens raised in cages and fed hormones, enzymes, drugs in their food to pacifiy them and stop them from pecking themselves to death, or cattle raised in feedlots living on and in their shit all their short lives, or pigs raised on cement floors in barns where they cannot ever see the sunshine, where they cannot use their instincts to root with their noses and etc. That is so-called Modern Agriculture. It is in fact 'concentration Camp Agri buiz'. The last most exploitative way of making life miserable for the plants and animals.

It would however be better to eat only small portion of natural organically grown meat than to eat poisoned vegtables, as eating small amounts for poison over a long time will also shorten your life.

The above thread does not deal with mother nature and scientific truth but with silly, rude reports that confuse the peoples, and are therefore dangerous of and for themselves. My own experience tells me to eat meat three times a week, and every day 50-50 if you are working hard,. With , fruit. nuts and berries along with yougurt and milk all organic and vitamins. etc.

No to the point of the argument, Another world is possible, and it must contiain the agricultural method of organic food raising whether meat or vegtables. That is the methods of the original way Peasant commune way of free choice. of raising food without exploitation, and in the organic method of putting back into the land as much organic matter as you take out each year with an organic crop. That way the succeeding generation will leave a natural strengthened land for the comming generations instead of a chemicallly burned-out unproductive plot of exploited soil. Workers of the world, untie!! You yet have a world to win!!

C. Darwin & Unity Jack


What a load bollocks

15.03.2012 10:26

As far as I understood it, the particular research is fairly dubious. They didn't study '120,000 people over three decades' but asked people to tell them about their eating habits - self reporting is often wildly inaccurate.

American porton sizes are massive. I've no doubt that eating a 16oz steak a day will decrease your life expectancy. Though when put in perspective 13% is not that much even if the study is accurate. They found a 40% increased risk in people who didn't excercise, but no-one's advocating compulsory fitness routines - yet.

To be honest a '13% increase in the risk of death' doesn't sound that scary. I'm 100% sure I'm gonna die so I reckon I could cope with a 113% chance of dying. This sort of 'research' gets picked up all the time by lazy jouros. I don't think a Daily Mail has yet been printed that didn't tell you that a glass of wine would either kill you or make you immortal.

There are many valid arguements for not eating meat, but the only one that could come close to justifying banning meat would be that of the rights of the animal not to be killed. Personally I'm far from convinced by this arguement, despite the fact that I choose not to buy meat or dairy - so I doubt you'd have much chance convincing 'normal' people who seem to be pretty addicted to the stuff.

B


re: "Real Vegan"... I don't think so

15.03.2012 12:15

"Well in case you had not realised "real vegan" for those meat-eaters to die off sooner they will need to keep on eating meat and thus abusing animals ergo your argument is flawed and let's be honest you are not a vegan at all are you because a vegan would never have written those words."

Errrm, that was exactly the point I was making! Not sure if you are trolling, drunk, or just lacking in reading comprehension.

Real Vegan


Perhaps missing my point?

15.03.2012 12:41

Vegan, as soon as you have decided that you can impose your will upon others because you know better than they about what is in their best interest you have changed the focus of the dispute. It no longer matters very much whether you are right (about what is in their best interest). It no longer matters in the least what the original dispute was about. The question NOW would be whether they submit to your (perhaps benevolent) rule over them or resist that.

MDN


Needs must

15.03.2012 14:26

I don't really care if people do it willingly or we have to force them by legislation as we do with seat belts but the fact remains that eating meat is bad for you and morally disgusting.

It needs to be stopped. Full Stop

Vegan


50% of statistics are made up

15.03.2012 18:30

This is a merry little free for all isn't it? I guess I'm what you'd call a pro-choice vegan, in that I don't believe banning is a deterrent (or even a favourable strategy), my regular drug use can testify to this. I think most of the anarchists on here, regardless of their dietary habits, can probably agree that telling us we are or aren't allowed to do something is only gonna produce an opposite response, and outside of a legal framework to punish the alleged crime, with gusto!

However meat eating has its fair share of problems, whether or not you believe the results of this study there are many more which show both meat and dairy are not ideally suited to human consumption. But before we all start shouting about evolution lets look at what the argument actually entails. Evolution is a process driven by context and imperative i.e. we need to adapt to our environment. However we have now reached a point where at almost every level and for better or worse we are able to adapt our environment to our needs, to produce whatever we choose in the appropriate quantity. We may have developed our canines at a point where eating meat was a neccesity but that is clearly no longer the case but after all this time meat and dairy still have a negative impact on our health then argument by evolution must be that we should not eat these things.

Anarchists & socialists and most other radicals have a world view which opposes the exploitation of living creatures for profit and power. Now I know that many do not view a human life and animal life to have equal worth so this argument alone is not going to make many converts. However eating animals impacts on people! One way this happens is this through the added intensity of farming that goes into creating another tier (grain/veg/soya-animal-person as opposed to grain-person) which naturally increases the amount of emissions & amount of land clearance, hastening climate change. Secondly it reduces the amount of subsistence farming if the land is otherwise employed, creating what to many is a luxury product and not a viable source of food.

Many are willing to openly denounce the evils of the sports car, big house, status symbol existence for those who suffer as a direct and indirect consequence of the economic relationships which facilitate it. Choosing to renounce eating meat is no different! To use the parlance of the Red Left eating meat is tantamount to bourgeois decadence.

Vegan anarchist


not vegan - eat meat and less grains and beans

15.03.2012 19:03

>>>> I don't really care if people do it willingly or we have to force them by legislation as we do with seat belts but the fact remains that eating meat is bad for you and morally disgusting.

It needs to be stopped. Full Stop


I eat a Paleo diet (its basically a hunter/gather type of diet). Green leaves, lots of meat, fish and poultry. I stay away from a modern agricultural (grain) diet because it is bad for your health.

I eat a lot of eat of all kinds for health reasons, but because I just indulge in the taste. I don't care what you think, you can't tell me what to eat via willingly or by legislation.

Grains play absolute havoc with insulin levels - scientific fact. The only reason it is the big part of the traditional food pyramid is because the US department of agriculture adopted it to encourage the industry. Their took it from the Danes who made it due to shortages of foods - it has no historic background in health studies and is no less recognised as a convential wisdom

Beans contain leptics which play havoc with intenstines -> hello bowel disease.

Meat eating should NOT be stopped, it should be encouraged as there is plenty of scientific studies to support eating a diet that our evolution is based around for last few million years.

Hunter gatherer food types


You REALLY don't get it

15.03.2012 21:39

In order to FORCE people to do something you need to have the means. You need to be able to deploy more force than they have available to resist.

You are confusing an overwhelming majority forcing the minority unwilling to wear seat belts to do so with imagining that a tiny minority of militant vegans can force an overwhelming majority of omnivores not to eat meat.

That's why I am saying that your have gone off the deep end talking about forcing people not to eat meat. FIRST you have to convince large numbers of people to accept your position. You have to CONVINCE large numbers of people. You will have little success with that if you are peceived as a nutter so lost tio reality that you haven't a clue how the population CURRENTLY divides on the issue.

It is WHEN (and of course if) you have assembled an overwhelming majority that you can discuss the merits of overriding the wishes of the remaining minority.

MEANWHILE -- you can of course protest and you can of course attempt to disrupt the killing of animals and the eating of meat.

MDN


@ MDN

16.03.2012 08:11

You can of course come up with all sorts of reasons why people should continue to eat meat but bluntly none of them matter. Eating the dead flesh of fellow animals is wrong, nobody would dream of eating other people (except in a dire emergency) so why is it ok to eat cows ?

I don't eat French people, why should I eat chickens ?
I don't eat Irish people, why should I eat pigs ?
I don't eat German people, why should I eat turkeys ?


Eating flesh needs to be banned and the consumption of it made a criminal offence, it really is as simple as that.

Vegan


"so why is it ok to eat cows ? "

16.03.2012 10:41

Two words,

Food chain

relaxed meat eater


This study is useless

16.03.2012 11:20

Some basic understanding of statistics would go a long way here.

This study was an observational study over a number of years culminating in a CORRELATION between slightly increased mortality rates correlated against increase in red meat intake. This study tells you nothing useful, other than possibly justifying another study.

Correlations cannot give you causation, it is a fallacy to derive a causal link from a correlation. You may as well say that there is a correlation between being stabbed and walking around at night, therefore walking at night will kill you.

As previously mentioned, there was no mention of the numerous additional dependent variables such as fitness, smoking, history of heart disease etc.

I do wish anarchists/vegans would get a basic grip of science before shouting about studies, statistics and chemicals. 'Organic' nonsense, hunter-gatherer diets, grains are bad for you, meat is bad for you, diary is bad for you. According to some primitivist dickheads, everything is bad for you.

Also the sick joke of class war veganism, who the fuck can afford the supplements, daily amounts of fresh veg required to stay healthy as a vegan. You keep importing your cashew nuts, Im going to drink some local dairy milk.

Bored


For "Bored"

16.03.2012 14:57

So because you can't be bothered to make a little effort animals are going to suffer ?

I'm sure there were people like you around during the days of slavery,

"I know these black people are dying but really it's a lot of effort to do anything about it"

Vegan


Meanwhile

16.03.2012 15:37

I can't this believe this 'article' is still up at all! What a waste of space.

get a fucking grip


Typical AR Perversion of Empathy

16.03.2012 17:49

This is the kind of tripe that is typical of the AR community in recent times. It seems people obsessed with not eating animals often find it difficult to extend the same level of empathy to fellow human beings. In my opinion it's a perversion based on the inability to feel real empathy to anything more complex than a puppy. Fuck off

Steak and Chips


Its obvious

16.03.2012 23:23

If God didn't want us to eat cows, he wouldn't of made them out of food.

Its nature. Its natural. It is unnatural to not eat meat,

That only leaves morals in my point of view.
Right and Wrong are built upon what the overwhelming majority believe is right and wrong at any particular point in time. At present, eating meat is morally right. In the future, I suspect one day eating meat may be morally wrong, unless everyone does realise the health benefits of unprocessed meat and fish. Packed full of good nutrients. I try to eat lot of fish - Omega 3 to combat our modern western diet that is way overboard on Omega-6s

anon


What is wrong with the world

17.03.2012 04:31

After watching a film on the human rights abuses in guantanamo bay I was led to indymedia where I came across this article.

Perhaps we should all relax a little and focus our attention on the REAL injustice that is happening in the world. I have never read of such vegetable passion when we are killing our own kind.

There are many places in the world where people have no choice in what they eat... give them a chicken and they won't be worrying about the health benefits but more that they'll live for another day.

Please get a little perspective people... we have bigger fights to fight in this world.

Concerned


Bigger fight ?

17.03.2012 07:24

So it's ok for animals to be killed and eaten as long as humans are ok ?

Eating the dead flesh of our fellow creatures is indefensible

There are no "bigger issues"

Vegan


yes it is ok

17.03.2012 10:28

>> So it's ok for animals to be killed and eaten as long as humans are ok ?
Yes. Obviously. Just like when a lion eats a zebra it is ok. Granted - the zebra may not like it, but it doesn't really have a say in the matter.

>> Eating the dead flesh of our fellow creatures is indefensible
Its total defensible. Its called food.

>> There are no "bigger issues"
There isn't even an issue. It is a non-issue.

I think you are discriminating against humans. Other animals eat "dead flesh" and you never hear vegans complaining about that. Next time a lion is killing a zebra what do we do? Tell the lion the error of its ways. It is likely to tell you to fuck off and mind your own business.

You are trying to meddle with a system that has worked for 100s of millions of years.




stoney


Stage two

18.03.2012 11:02

Has it ever occurred to you that after we eliminate the human consumption off dead flesh that stage two will be a process to convert carnivorous animals to a plant based diet ? There is already a project ongoing in California to make domestic cats vegan that has seen a lot of success

Vegan


re: Its obvious

18.03.2012 15:55

"If God didn't want us to eat cows, he wouldn't of made them out of food."

Sorry to break this to you, but humans are also made out of "food".

I guess we should all be cannibals then?

The twisted logic used by people to defend the hideous abuses of the meat industry is staggering.

Take a look at the video here to see what kind of things happen when you reduce sentient beings to the level of objects that can be exploited, tortured and killed at will:
 http://www.animalequality.net/undercover-investigation-exposes-harlingfarm
And don't try to say this is a few bad apples, it is what comes from desensitisation towards animal abuse.

It is these kind of things that explain why vegans are so passionate about what they do, and can sometimes be seen as despairing for humanity.

vegan


re: Stage two

18.03.2012 16:02

I know you can feed dogs and cats a vegan diet - sure it is artificial but then so is keeping pets. It's mainly for vegans with rescued animals that don't want to give money to the meat industry.

But from the tone of the comment it is obviously you are trolling.

Just because other animals eat meat doesn't mean that we should as well. Some animals routinely practice rape and cannibalism - that doesn't mean we should do the same.

anon


Red meat's good for you.

18.03.2012 16:38

For people with neuro-health problems & digesive health problems it IS good for you. Its high in protein, iron, vitamin B & D, Q10 enzime. Not feeding meat to children should definately be considered child abuse and the parents prosecuted.

When Iraqi troups were in Kuwait in 1991, they ate every animal in the zoo, including all the carnivors. There was no food chain poisoning. Just happy well-fed personnel.

As for the stalinists arguing moralism and neurotic care, it is the evidence you havnt managed to prove it is bad for you. Or got any scientific organisation to come out against meat eating.

Nicola


some replies

18.03.2012 20:32

>> as it ever occurred to you that after we eliminate the human consumption off dead flesh that stage two will be a process to convert carnivorous animals to a plant based diet ? There is already a project ongoing in California to make domestic cats vegan that has seen a lot of success

No it hasn't. And i hope that never happens because it is unnatural (ie. against evolution). I can see us going down an evolutionary cul-de-sac.

>>Sorry to break this to you, but humans are also made out of "food".
>> I guess we should all be cannibals then?

Strawman argument. No one is arguing that we should be able to eat humans.

>> The twisted logic used by people to defend the hideous abuses of the meat industry is staggering.

Morals are defined by the majority at a certain time in history. Perhaps in 500 years from now people will think you like will be in the majority. At that time, your morals will be correct. At present - they are not. Morals evolve over time - they are NEVER absolute. 2000 years from now we may have more evidence of how plants are sentient beings and that it is morally wrong to eat plants as well as meat. Or, maybe it will go the other way, where cannibalism is morally acceptable. Who knows!

>> Take a look at the video here to see what kind of things happen when you reduce sentient beings to the level of objects that can be exploited, tortured and killed at will:
 http://www.animalequality.net/undercover-investigation-exposes-harlingfarm
And don't try to say this is a few bad apples, it is what comes from desensitisation towards animal abuse.

I'd agree that there are issues in the meat industry (like everything else on the planet). That is a separate set of issues that could always be improved upon (like everyone else on the planet).

>> It is these kind of things that explain why vegans are so passionate about what they do, and can sometimes be seen as despairing for humanity.

I understand your viewpoint. Yet, it is different to mine (and many others). I'm actually quite passionate about eating meat as I believe our evolution for million of years has been based on a hunter/gather lifestyle - this is the most healthy as our evolution evolved around it. Grain based farming only occured about 10,000 years ago so I believe that we arn't equipped to digest this food without harm (backed up by scientific studies: bowel diseases).

>> Just because other animals eat meat doesn't mean that we should as well. Some animals routinely practice rape and cannibalism - that doesn't mean we should do the same.

Another strawman argument. No we shouldn't rape, no we shouldn't do cannibalism. Yes we can fart, yes we can burp, yes we can eat meat. The yes/no is defined by morals at this time in history which is defined by a majority consensus. Presently, rape it not ok, eating meat is ok. Maybe in the future, rape will be morally ok, and eating meat will be morally frowned upon. Who knows!

We shouldn't act like an animal. Neither should be not act like an animal. We should have the freedom to act how we wish to.

stoney


Sensible advice, please read.

20.03.2012 17:42

"For people with neuro-health problems & digesive health problems it IS good for you. Its high in protein, iron, vitamin B & D, Q10 enzime. Not feeding meat to children should definately be considered child abuse and the parents prosecuted."

Digestive health would not be treated with an increase in meat in your diet. Too high protein in your diet can cause kidney stones which are incredibly painful and do a lot of damage along with other problems.

You definitely would not want high protein in your diet for neurological conditions either. For neurological conditions you would want to lessen dietary components to reasonable levels and that, for the majority, would normally mean reducing your meat intake. This is based on the majority eating too much meat to start with.

A responsible diet for the majority would entail a high vegetable diet with some meat acting as a supplement. Meat is generally more difficult to digest than vegetable or plant content. The reason being that vegetables are designed to be eaten in order to carry seed over distance. A lot of plants require ingestion by animals in order to spread the seed over distances to propagate the plant species.

Over very many thousands of years, plant species have been evolving to be safely ingested toward this end.

A vegetable and fruit based diet is fundamentally safe for you to eat excepting highly specialised toxic species. Meat is generally bad for you and if you have to eat it at all, you should do it in moderation.

If you eat very high content of meat throughout your life, You aren't likely to survive into your 6th decade without experiencing chronic digestive tract damage and illness, some of these illnesses can be fatal.

A good measure for good health would be 80% vegetables/fruit and 20% meat/fish. For most in the developed world, the actual measure is 70% meat/fish and 30% vegetables/fruit. This actual measure is probably responsible for 60% - 80% of all visits to hospitals requiring extended treatment with associated dietary advice.

Fundamentally, meat contains far more fatty tissue which when ingested gives an immediate feeling of fullness and being well fed. But it also gives a feeling of sluggishness and apathy too. This probably explains its popularity in developed nations where there is a persistent lack of opportunity to eat due to the time demands of business and industry. The less time you have to eat, the greater the tendency to eat "quick nourishment feed" is to you. So a high meat content diet develops along with the associated health problems.

While this industrial food stuff diet might seem satisfying in the short term, it actually works against you. The immediate feeling of nourishment and being well fed you get from eating fatty meat is derived from the fatty tissue contained in the meat, the feeling of being sluggish and apathetic afterwards, comes from the fact your body is having to burn extra energy to digest this fatty tissue. So eating meat actually makes your body work harder.

As you get older, your metabolism slows down and you are unable to burn all this fatty tissue away and you develop excess fattyness over time. Because this fattyness is derived from meat, It is much more difficult to get rid of it through exercise than it would be if it were fattyness derived from liver sugar, which is responsible for the storage of energy in lean fat.

So generally, eat no more than 20% meat in your diet thoughout your life and between 40 and 50 years of age, step your meat intake down significantly. In your very senior years, eat no meat at all or very very little. In very very old age, you should be making every last bit of energy count.

Emily F


ban all meat and hunting

18.09.2012 21:17

we should ban hunting and eating of all animals! i cant wait for the day when all animals are safe from hunting and slaughtering, when the rabbits and deer and squirrel can run free unchecked,when all our crops have been demolished by over grazing, our trees stripped of their bark our woodland fading and dying and countless other animals dying of disease and hunger and loss of habitat because of unchecked unpredated species having free roam. yes lets do ban all meat eating! incase you cant tell i'm being sarcastic. You leftys always make me sick thinking with your hearts and not your heads not thinking the whole process through of these ridiculous policies you want to force on to our lifes!

hunter


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