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A Web Between London and Stockholm: The Julian Assange Case.

stjarna verkare | 13.09.2012 13:05 | Analysis | History | Terror War | South Coast

The first comprehensive investigation to be solely based upon all of the available legal documentation and using only research and reference material of the very highest standards. (See website for documentation downloads and research links).

The complainants Anna Ardin and Sofia Wilén consented to sexual intercourse, which they did not take the initiative to stop: they never expressed non-consent and afterwards declared to not have felt threatened by Julian Assange.

Anna Ardin continued to allow Julian Assange to stay at her apartment for four days after the alleged offence, she also engaged in further consensual sex with him. She continued to act in a voluntary role as his press secretary.
According to witness Kajsa Borgnäs "Among other things, Kajsa hade asked Anna if she was going to have sex with Julian, because Anna is single and she and Kajsa had earlier talked about sex. Anna had then related that she had already done so, but had said that it was the worst lay she’d ever had. Anna had also said that Kajsa could take him."

Anna Ardin created and then deleted evidence (tweets) indicating that she was enjoying Julian Assange's company at a crayfish party she had arranged at her house to honour him the night after the alleged incident: “Sitting outside.. nearly freezing, with the world’s coolest people. It’s pretty amazing!” And she deleted a blog posting detailing how to get revenge on unfaithful lovers. There are the photos of her smiling with Julian Assange during a dinner engagement with members of the Swedish Pirate Party two nights after the night in question (see Page 2).

Witness Donald Boström. Date: 20 September 2010. "But at the same time, I began to think: How can it be possible? For, if they are having sex, consensual according to her, and something happens that she experiences as an assault, how can she nevertheless gladly arrange a crayfish party, let him remain in her flat, share a bed and so forth? I felt that there is something here that does not add up. So I had the feeling that she was a credible person, yet there was something about her story that did not add up.

So those are pretty much the two impressions I have, parallel with each other: a credible young woman, a strong young woman who knows what she wants, but something that does not add up. And it is somewhat strengthened by the fact that I now had three versions of what happened..

So for me, the accusation was first an enormous shock; and then another enormous shock that the whole business had come out so fast and that the prosecutor had acted so quickly. And then an enormous shock when the entire case was laid down. So that to me, the whole business smelled bad from beginning to end, because there was something that did not add up.

When Anna called, I think it was Thursday.. Up until then she had joked that, "He has not succeeded in bedding me”, and so on.. But on Thursday, that is why she said, “I have also had sex with Julian.. What I said before wasn’t true.” So it did come out that they had sex.. And the reason she said that was that Sofia called and told her about their night.. So that within the space of a minute or so, I understood that both of them had had sex with Julian — but also that the sex was consensual..

When she called me and said “we had sex” and this happened, she did not in any way imply that she had been the victim of sexual assault. In fact, she did not even want to go to the police. But the way she put it was like, “I want to go with, I promised Sofia I would go with her for support” — not that she had any reason to go, herself. And so my impression is that she did not experience anything very serious, but that she had become angry. Roughly: Don't destroy the condom, but not that it was an assault.

Then she called back and said, as I mentioned, that because she strengthened Sofia’s story with that one sentence, the case became stronger, as she expressed it. That was exactly what she said.. But it was not her case. But that Friday when the women went to the police; I think it was a Friday. Before that, Anna phoned me often and said that all we want is for him to take an HIV test; then we won't file a complaint, she said."


On the 11th of August, 2010, Julian Assange arrives in Stockholm. He stays at Anna Ardin's Stockholm flat - she is away.

On the 13th of August, Anna Ardin returns a day early. He offers to find other lodgings, but she invites him to stay. They go out for a meal at a local eatery. Later that night and in the morning of the 14th of August the couple engage in sex.

On the 14th of August, Assange is the principal speaker at the Social Democrats' Brotherhood Movement seminar on "War and the Role of Media"; Anna Ardin plays a key supporting role. Julian Assange spends the afternoon with Sofia Wilén, during which they engage in heavy petting and agree to meet again. That evening, Anna Ardin arranges a crayfish party in Julian Assange’s honour. Alternative lodgings are offered to Assange, but Anna Ardin invites him to continue residing at her flat. A guest at the party stated: "It was a very hearty evening" and when he offered for Julian Assange to stay at his apartment, Anna Ardin replied, "he can stay with me."

On the 15th of August, at a meeting on the future activities of WikiLeaks in Sweden, Anna Ardin serves as Julian Assange’s press secretary. Later, Julian Assange and Anna Ardin attended a dinner party at Stockholm restaurant Glenfiddich organized by the founder of the Swedish Pirate Party, Rick Falkvinge.

On the 16th of August, Assange accompanies Sofia Wilén to her flat in the town of Enköping. He wears a condom during several consensual acts of sexual intercourse. He penetrates her once without a condom.

On the 17th of August, according to witness Johannes Wahlström, Anna Ardin was condescending describing Sofia Wilén: "Here, this is what I wrote on 17 August: “Good morning. Can you remind J that we have a meeting at noon at the journalists’ union. I suspect that [inaudible] sleeping, and unfortunately I cannot fetch him today.” Anna Ardin replied: “He is not here. He has been planning every night to have sex with the cashmere girl, but has not been able to find the time. Perhaps he managed to do so yesterday?” That was at 9:40 a.m. on August 17th. My reply: “Poor taste. Do you have her number?” Her reply: “Not sure that he has any taste at all, to be honest; but she was cute. Not mentally quick enough according to J. But cashmere and breasts and idol worship compensate. No unfortunately not.  sofia.wilen@hotmail.com. Works at the Museum of Natural History. That's all I know.”

On the 19th of August, Sofia Wilén phones Anna Ardin to seek assistance in contacting Assange. Anna Ardin asks Assange to move out of her flat, which he does the following morning.

On the 20th of August, Sofia Wilén visited a sex crimes clinic at Söder Hospital where she was tested with a rape kit and received preventive medicine against HIV.

After visiting Söder Hospital, Sofia Wilén (now accompanied by Anna Ardin) went to Klara police station. There are other police stations much closer to Söder Hospital and Anna Ardin’s flat in the Södermalm district, however, Anna Ardin's friend and fellow political associate in the Swedish HBT (homosexual, bisexual and transexual) and the SDP - the police officer Irmeli Krans, is currently on duty at the Klara station. Both Anna Ardin and Irmeli Krans are SDP candidates for the Stockholm City Council election which is currently in progress.

Sofia Wilén’s brother later said that his sister told him, “that she did not want to make any charges against Julian, but only wanted him to get tested for (sexually transmitted) disease.” Anna Ardin said to friends that she merely wished to “provide moral support to Sofia Wilén.” However, by the time they entered the police station, Sofia Wilén had already had an HIV test. Witness Hanna Rosquist: "Hanna said that Sofia wanted Assange to be tested for venereal disease. Sofia had gotten a test, but it would take a much longer time before she got the results. It would go much faster if Assange were to get a test."

The interview begins at 16:21 and ends at 18:40. Long before it is completed, however, two colleagues of officer Krans - Mats Gehlin and Linda Wassgren - telephone the on-call prosecutor with details of the continuing interview. Based on that limited information, prosecutor Maria Häljebo Kjellstrand issues an in absentia warrant for the arrest of Julian Assange on suspicion of raping Sofia Wilén and molesting Anna Ardin. Neither woman has been consulted; the decision is made on their behalf by the prosecutor. The warrant is issued at 17:00, with the interview still only half complete.

When Ms. Wilén is informed at 18:40 that Assange is to be arrested on suspicion of raping her, she is unable to continue. Irmeli Krans stated: “After being told about the arrest warrant, Sofia had difficulty concentrating on the interview. I therefore made the judgement that it would be best to break off the interview. It has not been read to her for approval.” As far as is known, Sofia Wilén has never approved officer Krans’s account of the interview, which is the principal basis of the most serious accusation against Julian Assange.

Her friend Marie Thorn told the police that “what happened after Sofia went to the hospital and the police was not what she wanted. The only thing she wanted was for Julian to be tested. She felt that she had been run over by the police and by others around her.”

The interviews of Julian Assange and the journalists Donald Boström and Johannes Wahlström were recorded and transcribed, the other nine testimonies taken were not recorded and were 'narrative' testimonies written by the interviewing officer after the interviews, this is completely against police protocol.

After the warrant for Julian Assange’s arrest is issued, the news is leaked by either; the police officers, the on-call prosecutor or Anna Ardin, to the journalist Niklas Svensson of the tabloid newspaper Expressen.
 
Anna Ardin gave her statement by telephone the next day. She then gave her story to the Aftonbladet tabloid newspaper, she told their reporters: "Julian Assange has a skewed view of womanhood and doesn't know how to take 'no' for an answer"; however, nowhere in her testimony is this word used, she clearly states that she gave consent, her only concern was the 'deliberate' breaking of a condom.

Within days the police leak Anna Ardin's and Sofia Wilén's statements to the Expressen. When Julian Assange is eventually found for questioning (30th of August) his statement is also leaked to the Expressen and appears the following morning, despite assurances by Mats Gehlin that this would not happen.
 
All of the leaks appear in the 'western' media as deeply distorted facsimiles of the original protocols and can be clearly seen as textbook cases of the 'manipulation of public opinion' facilitated by a ubiquitous 'media consensus'; similar in nature to the techniques employed in the run up to the illegal 2003 Iraq war. (Manipulating Public Opinion: The Why and The How. Edward L. Bernays. American Journal of Sociology, Volume 33, Issue 6 (May, 1928), 958-971).


In both emails and SMS messages provided to defence attorney Björn Hurtig and in her own unrecorded 'narrative' account Ms Wilén states: "After several acts of copulation she was half sleep when she felt him entering her again. She said, “You'd better not have HIV” and he said: “Of course not,” but “she couldn't be bothered to tell him one more time because she had been going on about the condom all night. She had never had unprotected sex before”.“She felt that it was too late. He was already inside her and she let him continue. She didn’t have the energy to tell him one more time. She had gone on and on about condoms all night long.” Witness Katarina Svensson: "Sofia also said that, when she was half asleep on her side, she had been aroused from slumber to feel that Assange was inside her.

The Swedish prosecutor Marianne Ny, later attempts to develop this into rape: “On 17 August 2010, in the home of the injured party Sofia Wilén, Julian Assange deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep, was in a helpless state. The sexual act was designed to violate the injured party’s sexual integrity.”

Anna Ardin alleged in her unrecorded 'narrative' police interview: "Anna tried several times to reach for a condom, but Assange stopped her from doing so by holding her arms and prying open her legs while trying to penetrate her with his penis without a condom. Assange asked Anna what she was doing and why she was squeezing her legs together. Anna then told him that she wanted him to wear a condom before he came in her. At that, Assange released Anna’s arms and put on a condom that Anna fetched for him."

Finally the condom was in use, however, "Anna is convinced that when he withdrew from her the first time, Assange deliberately broke the condom at its tip and then continued copulating to ejaculation. To my question Anna replies she did not look closely at the condom in order to see if it was broken in the way that she suspected; but she believes that she still has the condom at home and will check to see."

And according to witness Donald Boström: “And I have to tell you that we also had sex at an early stage at my place, and right in the midst of the act he destroyed the condom.”

A condom was submitted as evidence by complainant Anna Ardin 12 days after the alleged incident, it contained absolutely no chromosomal DNA from either the complainant or Julian Assange.

Anna Ardin stated in the Aftonbladet: “It is quite wrong that we were afraid of him. He is not violent, and I do not feel threatened by him.”

On the same day that Anna Ardin is interviewed, (21st of August) the police dossier is reviewed by prosecutor Eva Finné, to whom the case has been transferred at the direction of Prosecutor-General Anders Perklev. Eva Finné states: “I do not believe there is any reason to suspect that Julian Assange has committed rape,” The only remaining suspicion is that Julian Assange may have physically but not sexually molested Anna Ardin. The arrest warrant is cancelled.

On the 22nd of August, Anna Ardin contacts Claes Borgström.

On the 25th of August, Eva Finné decides to dismiss all sex related charges. “I have discontinued the preliminary investigation of the charge originally designated as rape. There is no suspicion of any crime whatsoever. I have gone through the interview with the complainant Sofia Wilén and as previously noted, the information which has emerged from the interview with the complainant is such that there is no longer any suspicion of rape. This does not mean that I do not find her testimony reliable. I have studied the interview to determine if there are grounds for suspicion of some other crime, primarily molestation or sexual molestation, but find that such is not the case according to my analysis.” The non-sexual molestation of Anna Ardin is to be further investigated.

Irmeli Krans, is not pleased with this decision. She writes on her Facebook page: “What the heck is this??? Judgement zero!!!" “SCANDAAAAAAAAL!!!!! My god!!! Scandal in every newspaper and broadcast news report. But our dear, eminent and exceedingly competent Claes Borgström will hopefully establish a little order!” Later she posts: “The overrated Assange bubble ready to burst.” “Way to go, Claes Borgström!!!”

On the 27th of August, Claes Borgström submits a formal request for the reconsideration of Eva Finné's decision.

By the 29th of August, he begins asserting that Julian Assange is guilty of two rapes.

In an interview in the Aftonbladet tabloid newspaper, when asked why Anna Ardin at first did not believe that she had been raped, Claes Borgström explains: “She is not a lawyer.”

At the request of Claes Borgström, (1st of September) prosecutor Marianne Ny announces that Julian Assange is once again suspected of rape, and that Eva Finné’s sole remaining suspicion of non-sexual molestation is to be “expanded” to include several instances of sexual coercion and sexual molestation.

Julian Assange waits in Sweden to be interviewed for a further five weeks before returning to England to oversee the IraqWarLogs disclosures.

On the 18th of November, Marianne Ny issues a Swedish warrant for the arrest of Julian Assange on “reasonable suspicion” of rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion. Marianne Ny states that the warrant was needed because it has been impossible to arrange an interview with Julian Assange. However, her attempt to arrange an interview consisted of just three SMS messages sent to a disregarded mobile phone of Björn Hurtig, Julian Assange’s Swedish attorney. Marianne Ny does not make one single other effort to arrange an interview. Björn Hurtig made endless attempts to arrange the interview while Julian Assange was in Sweden and after he had left; all of which were denied for one spurious reason after another.

Swedish prosecutor Marianne Ny refused to provide Julian Assange or his lawyers with information on the allegations against him in writing. This violates the Swedish Code of Procedure (RB 23:18.), the European Convention of Human Rights (article 5) and the EU Fundamental Charter on Human Rights. The prosecution also refused all voluntary offers for cooperation that fit under the Mutual Legal Assistance Protocol, such as making use of alternative methods to interview Julian Assange. In a witness statement submitted in the extradition proceedings 04.02.2011, she admitted that it was possible for her to interview Assange in London within the framework of Mutual Legal Assistance. However, Marianne Ny, apparently unaware of the contradiction, claimed that would not be ”an appropriate course” to take, because she considered it necessary to interrogate Assange "in person".

On the 20th of November, Marianne Ny issues a European Arrest Warrant and authorizes Interpol to post a Red Notice on Julian Assange, the highest priority alert which is usually reserved for the most serious criminal suspects.

The 'unusual handling' of the case by Marianne Ny and the mounting risk of being extradited to the United States finally leads Julian Assange to contest the EWA and extradition to Sweden.

At the extradition hearing 07.02.11 City of Westminster Magistrates' Court, the mismatches and exaggerations between the European Arrest Warrant (EAW) and the original accusers' statements to the Swedish police are revealed. In particular the original police reports showed - contrary to the EAW - absence of alleged rape, absence of alleged force or injury, admission in both cases of consensual sex on the same occasions as the allegations, and splitting of a condom used with plaintiff 1 rather than failure to use one. Text messages exchanged between complainants and their friends completely contradict the factual allegations in the EAW issued for Julian Assange and cast immense doubt on the allegations.

When the politician-lawyer Claes Borgström, had the Julian Assnage case re-opened - he was in the midst of an election, he later became the publicly financed representative of Anna Ardin and Sofia Wilén. At this time Claes Borgström's re-election prospects were in difficulties; the political tide in Sweden was shifting decisively towards the centre-right Alliance Party and he had been heavily criticised for failing to protect his mentally disturbed client's interests, (Thomas Quick) in a case that was quickly becoming known as Sweden’s most infamous miscarriage of justice.

The similarities between Claes Borgström in the Julian Assange case and Giuliano Mignini in the Amanda Knox case are startling. Both were recently disgraced senior prosecutors, both attempted to used a high profile case to repair their tattered reputations and succeeded only in condemning themselves further, whilst injuring everyone connected with the cases.

Thomas Bodström, the Swedish Justice minister responsible for the CIA renditions and subsequent torture of Ahmed Agiza and Muhammad al-Zery (two Egyptians citizens seeking asylum in Sweden), and Claes Borgström are business partners in a law firm (Borgström & Bodström Advokatbyrå).

Claes Borgström is a friend of Anna Ardin's, Irmeli Krans's and Marianne Ny's; he is the Social Democrat Party's spokeperson on gender equality, he claims that all men carry a collective guilt for violence against women and has in this context supported Gudrun Schyman's "Man Tax".

Thomas Bodström, Claes Borgström, Marianne Ny, Irmeli Krans and Anna Ardin all have political ties to the Social Democrat Party. Thomas Bodström and Anna Ardin are members of a Christian faction of the Social Democrat party, the “Brotherhood Movement” (Bröderskapsrörelsen).

On Irmeli Krans homepage she has published pictures of herself together with the retired leader of the party Mona Sahlin, and the former minister Thomas Bodström.

Almost nothing is known about Sofia Wilén.

Both the EAW and the Interpol red-notice were issued for Julian Assange by Sweden just before Wikileaks began to publish Cablegate.

There is no bail system in Sweden; Julian Assange would be held in a remand prison throughout any proceedings and at any time the United States can file their extradition warrant. He would then remain in prison until extradition. Once in Sweden, Julian Assange will no longer be able to seek political asylum.

Very little attention has been given to the temporary surrender (sometimes called 'conditional release’) mechanism that Sweden established bilaterally with the United States in their 1984 treaty (TIAS 10812) which supports the contention that an extradition from Sweden would be rather more straightforward than from the UK.

Tony Kevin, Australian ambassador to Poland (1991–94) and Cambodia (1994–97): “If he is soon extradited from the UK to Sweden, as now seems likely, he faces the danger of early 'temporary surrender' from there to the US, under a Swedish-US arrangement for transferring people charged with crimes in both countries. This enables the two governments to avoid procedural requirements and opportunities for appeal that exist under normal extradition arrangements. Assange could then face very serious charges in the US. Cables recently obtained by the Sydney Morning Herald under Freedom of Information from the Australian Embassy in Washington confirm that since 2010 the US Justice Department has conducted an 'active and vigorous inquiry into whether Assange can be charged under US law, most likely the 1917 Espionage Act'”. 

The Stratfor emails, gathered by the hacker collective Anonymous, indicate a secret indictment against Julian Assange; this information was published in Rolling Stone 28.02.12. In one of the emails, sent to Stratfor intelligence analysts on 26.01.11, the company's vice-president for intelligence, Fred Burton, wrote: "We have a sealed indictment on Assange." Stratfor’s vice-president of public policy, Bart Mongoven, writes that Assange should face “whatever trumped up charge is available to get this guy and his servers off the streets.”

ABC Four Corners Andrew Fowler 23.06.12: "Four Corners has obtained a copy of a subpoena from a grand jury which is examining evidence for possible charges relating to 'conspiracy to communicate or transmit national defence information' and obtaining 'information protected from disclosure from national defence'. Critically, the subpoena contains the identifying codes 10 and 3793". Michael Ratner: "There's a grand jury currently sitting in Alexandria, Virginia, and it's interesting the grand jury's number is 10, standing for the year it began. (There's) GJ, which is grand jury, and then 3793. Three is the conspiracy statute in the US and 793 is the espionage statute. So what they're investigating is 3793, conspiracy to commit espionage."

According to the UN Special Rapporteur on torture and Amnesty International, the whistleblower Bradley Manning has been held without trail for 836 days, he has been tortured for 334 days - the legal maximum time without trail is 120 days.

Julian Assange has now been detained without charge for 639 days.


12.09.12 stjarna verkare

stjarna verkare
- e-mail: stjarnaverkare@gmail.com
- Homepage: http://marthamitchelleffect.webeden.co.uk

Comments

Hide the following 5 comments

Pleased with you / Utterly disgusted with you

13.09.2012 18:50

"You hid the comment I made ? That is simply disgusting, I am sick of seeing apologists for rape and sexual assault under the excuse of political expediency. Julian Assnage may or may not be guilty of what is alleged but to try and undermine the two women involved is something I would expect to see on the Daily Mail not Indymedia."

Dear Rapecrises Worker,

I am sorry your comment was hidden, I would have liked to have seen it and responded to it. However, I think I know your general point of view and let me respond with some counter-points.

You will not see an article in the Daily Mail, or The Times, or The Independent or anywhere else that simply takes the submitted evidence and shows that there are serious questions to be asked in the London / Stockholm - WikiLeaks fiasco.
It uses the same sources as all of the articles you may have seen since the allegations were made. It quotes from those sources just like the mainstream media does. However, it doesn't cherry pick a few very selective quotes to make the appearance that there is a serous case against Julian. My article shows everything - and you can read the material for yourself - just download the documents.

"to try and undermine the two women involved."

But by simply publishing their own statements? If this 'undermines' them, then it is they that have done that? I didn't, I wasn't even in the same country at the time! There is much I could have included that I did not - it is in the statements attached.

"I am sick of seeing apologists for rape and sexual assault."

I don't give an opinion in this article about guilt or innocence, nor do I apologize for rape and assault. There is nothing factually inaccurate in my article, there is no opinion. That was the whole point in writing it.

I mention the Sarah Knox case, you will remember how every detail to investigated in detail by the media. In Italy, a smear campaign was launched, elsewhere, the facts of the case were allowed to speak for themselves. Remember also the crime in question. Rape and murder - a truly shocking crime. And yet despite the evidence, the verdict, most people now believe Knox guilty, because all they remember are the smears and lies inserted into the Italian press.
Consider Julian, this isn't just one country reporting slanted manipulations and lies, it's the entire mainstream media of the United States and her allies.

One cannot extinguish truth with sophistry disguised as 'debate'. There is nothing even debatable about the truth. You can have views about what the truth means, but you can only be obfuscating if you assault the actual true itself. This is one of the powerful forces of propaganda: to repeat a distortion long and often enough; that it becomes believed, and then it is a truth, in the pliable perceptions of people.

stjarna verkare

stjarna verkare
mail e-mail: stjarnaverkare@gmail.com
- Homepage: http://marthamitchelleffect.co.uk/


Perceptions.

13.09.2012 19:19

"One cannot extinguish truth with sophistry disguised as 'debate'. There is nothing even debatable about the truth. You can have views about what the truth means, but you can only be obfuscating if you assault the actual true itself. This is one of the powerful forces of propaganda: to repeat a distortion long and often enough; that it becomes believed, and then it is a truth, in the pliable perceptions of people."

Well put.

Interesting to see just how old this process is in the UK. The Hillsborough evidence shows very well how this process can be initiated, who does the initiating and why. It clearly shows that Sheffield MP Irvine Patrick was briefed to spread disinformation about the conduct of the Liverpool fans which, with the help of police, went on to form the basis of the notorious Sun headline claiming to be 'The Truth'. There was absolutely no truth in it. It was a political ploy to protect the policing on the day and also to stave off any criticism of the government.

We all know that this process still goes on and we have all seen it in just the past few years. The idea that Assange is subject to exactly the same 'technique' isn't such a jump to make. In fact, its quite logical.

I look forward to the point when those engaged in campaigning on the subject of rape and abuse of women will be able to find a way to navigate around what has been a very obvious attempt by the government to protect themselves by sowing division amongst various campaigning groups in the UK as a technique to protect themselves. I know its difficult but keep on at it and please remember that the government of the US and UK don't much care for the victims of rape. In exactly the same way they don't much care for the victims of their wars.

All they care about is keeping their little party going.

Rising to the bait doesn't actually achieve an awful lot.

anonymous


Trolls at work

13.09.2012 20:59

stjarna verkare -"I am sorry your comment was hidden, I would have liked to have seen it and responded to it."

It wasn't a comment, it was simply a cut and paste of this page:  http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/mythsampfacts2.php

posted by a troll

troll finder general


The Truth.

15.09.2012 12:35

"Even if Assange is innocent of the rape charges he is still a spy who stole military secrets and put them online where they might be of use to enemy states."

The Americans aren't claiming that. They are saying that one of their own salaried intelligence analysts released the information into the public domain and that Assange is the vehicle he used to do it...so Assange has been stitched up. Thats what the yanks are saying anyway, but they aren't known for making sense.

"What if that information got into the hands of terrorists?"

I don't think the Pentagon would act on it...oh wait, thats not what you meant is it?

"I don't know why people consider spies and traitors as heroes."

I don't know why baby murdering soldiers from the UK and US are considered heroes either! Its bizaare.

"People might not like the USA but putting the American people at risk of terrorism or attack by hostile states is stupid in the extreme!"

Hostile states aren't attacking them. Do pay attention 007.

Amerikana


Trolls at work ?

17.09.2012 13:23

The easiest way to shut up somebody pointing out the facts behind rape and sexual assault is to call them a 'troll'.

Better that than having to face the fact that your new hero is very likely an abuser of women.

Idiot Finder General


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