Organising a network against EDL Racism and BNP Fascism

No thanks, bring back A.F.A

Have put your website on my favourites list and will contact you later. Support your efforts 100% my friend but think we need to go further than this in the way that you briefly mention. Yes, many people have been lured into BNP or EDL circles because they have become disillusioned by the other mainstream parties but I have no doubts whatsoever that the BNP and EDL are financed and organised by the very same shadowy figures who lurk behind the mainstream parties.

Even though I don't like the term, we do need some real, wholesome grassroots politics with real bite that can nurture some respect on a wider platform and appeal to the average man and woman in the street. We need to be able to build a new, all embracing society without the small mindedness and bigotry that has come to plague Britain and many other countries around the world. I truly believe that much of this social strife has been orchestrated by very wealthy and powerful people over a long period of time. They have used many scientifically based propaganda and mindbending methods against the public.

Healing society may require patience, understanding and much hard work.

Who is fishing here and if you are what you say then in touch by worldwarfreeatriseup.net a secure e mail not like the yahoo one given i smell a SWP front or something more over to you to get in touch and talk..

M.

With all due respect, NO campaign to increase working class solidarity is EVER going to significantly impact the conditions that have bred BNP support in Stoke and/or Barking and Dagenham before the votes are cast on or near May 3rd, and, if one or more BNP MPs does get elected, the BNP will be cock-a-hoop with renewed confidence and enthusiam for years. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing whatsoever against working-class, community based campaigns, but people should be under no illusions that such campaigns offer at best a chance of long-term solutions, where in this context we need to focus on immediate short-time strategies to stop BNP candidates getting elected in May.

Pointing-out the anti-working class nature of BNP attitudes to Trades Unions and BNP taxation policy might help with this, but if anyone thinks they can rebuild working-class politics in the UK in less than 3 months then sorry but they're wildly naive.

The BNP's emphasis on Islamophobic campaigning highlights the fact that BNP growth has far more to do with atrocities like 9.11 and 7.7 than it has to do with anything any Anti-Fascist group did or didn't do. So, yes of course UAF and Searchlight have "failed" - to the extent that the 94% of Euro 2009 voters who actively rejected the BNP were less than the 98% of voters who probably rejected the BNP in previous years. Anyone's cup can be "half empty" or "half full" according to how their ideological convictions predispose them to interpret simple facts, but by those standards any success short of 100% victory will always be interpreted as failure.

I'm not saying that UAF and Searchlight don't both have very real weaknesses, but we also need to remember that NONE of us has a perfect strategy for defeating the BNP, that even the best strategy won't work for all people in all contexts, and that the ideas about working-class solidarity that are so central to certain radical philosophies have also failed to engage the broad mass of the general public for at least 25 years - so if UAF and Searchlight have failed then the fact is that many other left-wing groups have failed far worse.

Left-wingers also need to factor-in the contributions of right-wing Anti-Fascist groups like the Centre for Social Cohesion and the "Nothing British about the BNP" campaign, whose actions rarely seem to impact the debates that take place on Indymedia

Notts stop the BNP are one of the few groups beside the UAF who have organized against the EDL, why you think they are UAF I've no idea.

As for the AFA, they've done fuck all in britain in the last ten years. You can't fight fascism with nostalgia.

I understand why people may be concerned, but this has nothing to do with either the SWP or Searchlight. A look at the leaflet should tell you as much.

It's mainly the initiative of people in Notts Stop the BNP, a couple of other similar groups and a number of individuals.

Hope that settles it.

if you can't fight fascism with nostalgia then why do so many name and shame the fascist parties with their actions of the past?

"so and so did this... bad man"

hardly a day goes by when there isn't a post on here saying something similar, while i appreciate the work that goes into finding this information out don't you think it kind of resembles preaching to the choir?

fucking hell

if you look at how bnp/edl market themselves it falls very loosley along the lines of

too much of this not enough of that and this is how we are going to change it.... now to me that sounds like forward thinking, even though they're aiming for the unimformed for their core voting base they don't really do a lot of patronising,

its 2010 and yes were all aware that racism is bad,

how about we give this idea a chance,

maybe someone will elaborate on why the bnp and edl are bad men (and or women) rather than just going "oooh he's a nazi" what about pulling together and looking at how we could support people that may be tempted to vote or support these parties and eventually kill off the source,

if the bnp give the impression they are there to help and swp/uaf do nothing but name call and try and prevent this where will the majority of support lie in the long run?

jeez louise!

Glasgow Anti Fascist Action
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/11/441691.html?c=on

and Edinburgh Anti Fascist Alliance
 https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/02/446519.html

Have done a great deal of effective organising against the E/SDL. There has been talk of a more organised mobilisation network to support such local groups. In Edinburgh SWP members were up for confronting the E/SDL and the police even when this meant disobeying their leaders demands that they go to the Scotland United scab fest. This was an improvement on Glasgow where the same behaviour by the SWP leaders came as a shock to some of us and so was not effectively confronted.

Remember that some E/SDL members are genuinely against religious fundamentalism and the police and are our allies! Some members of UAF support the police and our our enemies. Some UAF change their attitude towards the police during the practice of confrontation. It seems to tend to be the leaders of both organisations who need confronting....?

Notts Stop the BNP is not an SWP front group and has many good people working within it. However, it has an unofficial leadership from the AWL, who have done their best to take the reins and force out anyone who challenges them.

Almost all of the anarchists, who at one point made up the majority of the group, have now left in disgust at the continued presence of this leadership and its machinations.

The AWL members have ignored the will of the group and called the police to set up liaisons. They have tightly controlled the leaflets that are distributed by the group. They have engaged in political disputes with the UAF for the benefit of their party rather than the benefit of anti-fascism.

At their last conference they specifically set up a motion to support independent working class candidates in elections to further alienate themselves from anarchists.

This was just one more slap in the face to those who had been asked at the previous conference to come along and protect them from fascists.

Some have said that it's time to reclaim what was once a genuine community group fighting fascism. However, this conference will not be the time to do it. If NStBNP's last conference is anything to go by, AWL activists will be ferried in from around the country to outnumber any dissenters within the local group.

Genuine anti-fascists would do well to steer clear of Dave Matthews and his career-building exercises.

Don't get me wrong, I think the militant mobilisations against the S/EDL in Glasgow and Edinburgh were absolutely fantastic, and I really don't like the SWP, but to describe the "Scotland United" rally as a "scab fest" is typical of the kind of myopic thinking that has marginalised radical politics for decades. Yeah, great idea... defame the vast majority of people who marched against the S/EDL in Edinburgh as "scabs"! Great way to build a united front against growing Fascism you fucking muppet!

One of the reasons SDL's defeat in Edinburgh was so decisive was because of the sheer numbers of people who outnumbered the SDL, so, if nothing else, one thing Scotland United achieved was to swell the numbers of people we can advertise as having opposed the EDL to 3 or 4 times the number there would have been if the Anti-Fascist ranks had been confined to militant lefties and Anarcho-punx.

"Notts comrades" might like to consider the possibility that respectable middle-aged and elderly walking-stick brigade can have their rallies ALONGSIDE militant mobilisations - the 2 approaches don't need to be mutually exclusive. Yes SWP/UAF's "leadership" repeatedly fuck-up, but one thing UAF have got right is the realisation that they need to engage with the broader community and not restrict their movement to radical trainspotters.

There's a You Tube video called "EDL exposed in Nottm" that shows an EDL mob reacting angrily to banners that read "Homes and Jobs not Racism", but what ELSE does that video expose? Well it doesn't show actual NottsSTB numbers because the camera was pointed towards the EDL, but my guess is NottsSTB were outnumbered by about... 100 to 1? Perhaps NottsSTB can confirm exactly how many of their supporters were present there at that specific moment? Hey, maybe I'm wrong - maybe NottsSTB's philosophy really is an effective engagement strategy and in fact there were 100's of NottsSTB supporters behind the camera? Were there?

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpC82DWfM4k

sorry to butt in on the in-fighting but is their any mobilisation anyone knows about around Geert Wilders showing his film in the house of Lords on the 5th in London or will it be a whitewash?

Sorry, I didn't mean that everyone on Scotland United was a scab or that it is not legitimate to have a diversity of tactics such that more people can get involved. My concern is that one of the SWP's speakers at Scotland United was the boss who is trying to break the bin workers union in Edinburgh at the moment. For more information on this struggle see  http://edinburghmuckraker.org.uk/

Considering that there are only a handful of AWL members in Nottingham and no more than two of them turn up to Notts Stop the BNP meetings, the local group can hardly be described as a 'front'. Perhaps these AWL members have special powers of mind control and unseen influence? Perhaps ...

As for the silly comment about leaflets: all leaflets are circulated for amendment before distribution, anyone can write a Notts Stop the BNP leaflet, objections and discussions can be raised at regular open meetings etc... Your claim is simply not true.

Even if your main objection is the issue of independent candidates, it's no longer an 'operational gripe'. It's not as if we're inundated with independent, anti-fascist candidates who merit support. If, for one, will argue against backing any SWPers, Socialist Party people (who are part of the campaign) et al who decide to stand locally. If I don't get my way, I won't walk away from the campaign.

So, why not pop along to a meeting and see what's really going on?

"I find it most intriguing"

Does the concept of free speech and freedom of thought only apply if only your viewpoint is heard ?

Does the phrase 'I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it' apply equally - or are the hard won universal rights of man divisible ?

Please bring to bear your infinite wisdom and try to wriggle out of the conundrum you find yourself tangled up in.

You have the option to engage in discourse and intelligently disprove the other person's point of view but choose instead to demand that no debate take place as you've already made everyone else's mind up for them.

Isn't that fascism ?

A mass movement is nescessairy. I think it should come from the working class and be not connected to a political party.The far irght are a threat. in york on sat 20th feburary at the turf tavern there was a blood and honor gig 100+ attended. There was an open flyer on facebook but it has been taken down.These people must be stopped

"Considering that there are only a handful of AWL members in Nottingham and no more than two of them turn up to Notts Stop the BNP meetings, the local group can hardly be described as a 'front'."

I didn't describe Notts Stop the BNP as an AWL front. I said it has an AWL leadership. This mostly consists of Dave Matthews, the individual who, against the explicit decision of many organising meetings, took a unilateral decision to talk to the police about the group's plans in the run up to RWB.

"As for the silly comment about leaflets: all leaflets are circulated for amendment before distribution, anyone can write a Notts Stop the BNP leaflet, objections and discussions can be raised at regular open meetings etc... Your claim is simply not true."

I hope that is the case now, but it wasn't when I was involved. An anarchist comrade did write a leaflet but made the unforgiveable mistake of suggesting that the BNP, like other politicans, could not be trusted. This was deemed by the AWL members to be breaching the party line. Rather than object and discuss amendments on the email list, the AWL member responsible for printing changed the wording without asking anyone else. This made sure that the leaflets had the 'correct' message on them on the day they were handed out.

"Even if your main objection is the issue of independent candidates, it's no longer an 'operational gripe'. It's not as if we're inundated with independent, anti-fascist candidates who merit support."

That is not my point. My point is that this motion was tabled specifically to exclude anarchists who are ideologically opposed to participation in elections.

"If I don't get my way, I won't walk away from the campaign."

I did not walk away because I didn't get my way. I left the group because I was spending all of my energy trying to combat the control-freakery and abuses of power of the unofficial leadership when I should have been fighting fascism. I am glad to say that I am now able to do actually get on and do the job.

"So, why not pop along to a meeting and see what's really going on?"

My entire purpose in posting here is to prevent others from going through the same disheartening and exploitative experience as I did. Things may have got better in NStBNP since those most threatening to the AWL view left the group, but should a sizeable group of anarchists try to get involved again, you can be sure that these same disgusting tactics will be resorted to by the so-called proletarian vanguard.

"Does the concept of FREE SPEECH and freedom of thought only apply if only your viewpoint is heard?"

The moral dilemma over the issue of free speech for Fascists is a real weak-spot in terms of Anti-Fascists explaining their beliefs to the general public, but trust me mate, the reason the BNP want to reintroduce the DEATH PENALTY has nothing to do with deterring anti-social crime (you only have to look at the criminal records of many BNP activists to realise that). The reason the BNP want the death penalty is so that, if they get elected, they can arrest all Anti-Fascists and have us executed for being the "traitors" they constantly accuse us being. That's what BNP supporters like Joe Owens mean when they try to intimidate Anti-Fascists with warnings about "the day of the rope". Free speech in the BNP's philosophy only applies to the BNP themselves - not for instance to the speakers at the famous anti-BNP meeting at Welling Public Library which the BNP attacked with hammers, iron bars, chair legs and bike chains, putting 17 innocent people in hospital...

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXqO3bYSHgk

The concept of free speech has never applied to defamation, slander and libel, but unfortunately the extreme right exploit a legal loop-hole in that defaming, slandering and libeling entire communities (rather than individuals) has never been illegal as such. The concept of free speech has also never applied to what legal philosophers call "shouting FIRE in a crowded cinema" - the analogy being that if someone shouts out a false warning about a non-existent fire, causing a crowd to stampede and kill innocent people, that warning is an anti-social crime and not something that can ever be defended as free speech. Again the extreme right do things like this all the time - the mother of all examples being Eunuch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" speech, and Fascist nutters have been slavering over the thought of trying to force Powell's prediction to come true ever since (mainly so they can enjoy the violence of course).

PS - EDL supporter Graeme Stevenson (of Haco Street, Largs) was arrested and charged with public order offences resulting from the failed EDL protest in Edinburgh - he's "on the list" as a confirmed BNP member

thanks to (a) and fightback for enlightening comments about NsBNP, I will be voting with my feet and not attending the conference as i'm sure many committed RASH/AFA non-alligned types will do also. My question is how do we unite the militant anti-fascists who were out in dribs and drabs against the EDL in nottm? an element of strategy/tactics is needed if we aren't to be kicked off the streets next time? There were several anarchist/anti-fash units around MMWay/Market square but we weren't able to take advantage of this. Turning up ad hoc is still an incredibly risky business considering the numbers and organising ability of the EDL. Yes their demo was a pissed up sham, but no one could avoid but notice every pub in a half mile radius had EDL firms intent on violence with no real intention of joining the main demo. In my view its no good staying at away from this and we need to be clear in the best approach to take to this threat. Suggestions...

we sit here bickering about the most petty bullshit while the right unite and run riot in stoke. pat on the back, well fucking done, aren't you so hardcore?

Responding to AFA supporter / skanx77, thanks for saying thanks mate, but (just in case I might have been misunderstood) it was not my intention to diss NottsSTBNP as such, as their opposition to the BNP is much appreciated, just to express my concerns about how some Anti-Fascist strategies are being pursued. The essence of my belief is that none of us has (if we're being honest) a perfect strategy, and while different strategies do need to be debated, in a situation where we have only limited time, it's important not to let these debates prevent us from remaining united or from prioritising undermining the BNP's election campaign (and by "united" I don't only mean uniting militant Anti-Fascists, I mean uniting ALL anti-Fascists - working-class and middle-class, liberal and militant, secular and religious, etc).

As you point out there's an issue at demos because even when the EDL are heavily outnumbered they mob together much more tightly than Anti-Fascists, so can appear an intimidating force. This is a bad thing in that it makes the EDL feel more confident, but also a GOOD thing in that diffuse masses of Anti-Fascists are harder for the cops to kettle, and because a confident EDL are usually their own worst enemy (in terms of PR gaffes like making Nazi salutes and racist insults). There is no magic-wand solution for developing a coherent Anti-Fascist street presence, but the campaigns in Glasgow and Edinburgh seem to be heading that way and I guess the first thing is to be friendly at demos - you don't need to risk giving random strangers your personal details but just chat to people and get to know faces at events and build up communication and trust.

To reply to KB, it was me that posted the video on You Tube about the Judean People's front ;)

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q188VcY6LF0

'Dave Matthews' is a term used generically by many Notts Stop the BNPers, including anarchists, when issuing statements.

But I believe (a) refers in his comments above to this Dave Matthews, i.e. me, in order to try and damage and demoralise the significant anti-fascist campaign which we have been building despite some anarchists withdrawal. He deserves to fail because in order to achieve his purpose, he has to lie.

Lie 1
During the Notts campaign in 2008, there was a long argument over 2 months about whether we should demand our legal right from the police to demonstrate at the BNP's RWB. The majority of the campaign was against it, some of us disliked that decision but were obliged to keep it.
Whilst this quite silly argument was continuing, the UAF called a demo, gained police permission and let the story fly that the Notts campaign was simply going to try and send people into the police exclusion area, get arrested without even being able to congregate.
When it dawned on many in the Notts campaign that this was causing some people to believe that they could end up in a police trap, the campaign changed its decision, we successfully demanded our legal rights and got four hundred people into an area they would have not got near otherwise. This was decided at a well-attended meeting open to all supporters democratically!!
Meanwhile the break-away group organised about 20 people who got immediately lifted by the police when they appeared. An action that was widely seen as silly, counter-productive even by some who went on it.

Lie 2
One anarchist assumed the task of writing a leaflet which I and many others thought was not very good. It was never agreed he would write the leaflet, he just went ahead and did it, as also did I. I thought the leaflet was inadequate because it was to be given out during a week when there was to be a major strike. The anarchist who wrote the leaflet didn't like unions and saw little reason to make the leaflet relate to the strike. I tried to merge the two leaflets. All of that dispute took place between 2 meetings between April 18th and April 22nd , 2008 and there was a full discussion on the email list in front of all the campaigners.

But in a fit of pique, which many PhD students seem to suffer from when criticised, this anarchist left the campaign because he didn't like having his view challenged and decided democratically. So (a) stop lying!

(a) may have been sold lies without having the chance to check them out, he may be a liar himself.

I would be very happy to put together the emails of both the democratic debates if that is required. The work that the Notts Stop the BNP is too important to have shit like that thrown by (a) stick.

UKFightback makes some valid points requiring an answer regarding the events in Nottingham and the video....
The Notts campaign had discussed what to do fairly intensively before the Nottm EDL demo.
The AWL members argued for the campaign to try and make sure we weren't easily corralled and that we should send people from the initial meeting point in groups of 20-30 leafletting what was a busy shopping day and preparing to meet up later in the day as close to the EDL as possible.
The SP and others who have also worked hard in the campaign were less happy about this mainly on grounds of security.
We (the AWL) thought we had the agreement of the campaign to our proposal but that was apparently not the case.
In the end the AWL and others went ahead with the plan we thought we had agreement on and went off to leaflet in 2 groups of 20 or so. Meanwhile the main assembly point was dominated by those who were not happy about the tactic we employed and wanted to keep in one place eventually along with the UAF.
Those of us who went leafleting in groups were able to argue with and confront EDLers as they made their way to the assembly point. These arguments often got close to violent attacks on us but didn't go further than that. The groups of EDLers were usually in handfuls reluctant to attack us in front of hundreds of shoppers. But often we were able to talk to individual EDLers who appeared to genuinely believe that the EDL is not racist and just against Islamic extremism. We challenged them on what they were doing not only about racism but also about unemployment, he bankers, cuts in services, lack of decent and cheap housing etc. I hope we got some of them to think.
Eventually about 20 or 30 of us (mainly AWL but with many others joining us) avoided the police restrictions and got down to the EDL march where the video was shot.
(There was another group who made it close to the EDL demo, made up of anarchists, but not at the point where we are and not in the video. I obviously can't speak for them and what their aims were.)
We picked up placards that had been hidden earlier. At that point we were were probably outnumbered 20 to 1. But I still think we were right to make ourselves visible to the EDL and make our opposition known. The EDL response is seen on the video.
What are the lessons that we need to discuss on Saturday???
I think those of us were right in Nottingham who avoided being kettled. We were able to leaflet and talk to the people of the town who often don't have a clue about who is who, and we were at least able to get close to the EDL. But we didn't have many. We need a national network of campaigns with that understanding and capable of mobilising sufficient people to do this effectively.
The UAF tactic of getting people to an area and allowing them to be surrounded and provoked by the police only gives the police and the EDL what they want: 1) fruitless set-piece conflicts with the police for no purpose and 2) the ability of the EDL to wander round the rest of the town and usually ending in a march by them with no opposition even visible. Anti-fascists need to be cleverer than has been shown so far.

& UKfightback plus his-her amazing videos+ commentary,
great to see that on demos people dont do this kind of infighting whipped up by trolls& thankfully we dont murder each other like nazis in the UK continue to often do. Like their hero in WW2 they think killing as many people as possible is important. Thankfully we arent murderous, but like the allies we have a better overall strategy.
The "left" in some ways is everywhere a victim of its own success, with antiracism & workers rights now important everywhere.

It would be great if more of Notts stop the BNP would apologise to activists who bravely tried to peacefully! blockade the BNPnazi fest in heanor, many activists were arrested, be good if someone could clarify wether batons were used?. It may not have been the best planned action running near police in balaclavas,
but was more Ghandi like than anything!.
Shame on the media & the main antifascist parades general reaction at the time based on spin.
Most of us are sorry,
your great!!, to quote monty Python?
"cant we all just get along?"
everyones positive input is appreciated.

Cyber pagan is v.likely "Reverent" who lived,lives in Radford,nottingham claiming not to be a BNP supporter before turning up at their festivals& repeatedly on official member lists.
His myspace page says “antiracist,human rights activists”.
A well known member of the bnp, why he sees no conflict with this maybe a matter for him& his therapists.
He really has convinced himself that standing up for the "White"race is antiracism& devotes himself to this.

He also seemed to be trolololin Indymedia around Nottingham EDLs Knights of the Holly Pisshead parade, that had more than tad of violent physcosis.
Dear Jason you may know Monty Python& the Holy Grail,
these little bunnies shouldnt be messed with=:)

"Lie" 1
Dave, the decision was not made at an open meeting. You are the one lying. Your idea about the right way to organise trumped any ideas you might have had about 'democracy' or involving other people in decision-making. That is why about half of Notts Stop the BNP split from you. That you continue to lie to the world and yourself about this shows what a dangerous authoritarian you are. The fact that you use ends to justify means ("we successfully demanded our legal rights and got four hundred people into an area they would have not got near otherwise." "The work that the Notts Stop the BNP is too important") demonstrates this quite well.

"Lie" 2
I have spoken to the person who wrote the leaflet about this incident again since reading your comment. He says that your line is ridiculous - he is a union member for a start! He says that he only found out that his leaflet had been changed whilst being driven by you to an area to hand it out. He is particularly amused by your suggestion that he is prone to criticism because he has a PhD (especially since Dave Matthews is a middle-class academic himself!) His position is that this incident was "the straw that broke the camel's back" - the final act of disdain for collective decision making that led him to alternative ways of organising.

Incidentally, what is this vitally important work that Notts Stop the BNP does that makes it OK for you to trample people? Despite BNP candidates popping up all over Notts, I haven't heard a peep out of you since last year.