David Shayler in Leeds at the Unspinning the Truth event - video

Why the fuck does anybody pay this scumbag's train fare?

The man is blatantly involved in order to discredit anyone who believes 9/11 was a state-sponsored false flag. By wheeling out the Icke-like lizard bollocks, the establishment can safely tar every propaganda unbeliever with the same brush.

Get rid of Shayler, or watch the whole 9/11 truth movement die a sorry death, while Tony laughs his arse off.

That guy Shayler needs a good pie-ing

Simple attacks with no supporting evidence
I note that 'anarchists' seem to like to portray us as conspiraloons, anyway, which I assume means they basically accept the government's story. How very odd, but not unexpected in these times of shifting meanings and paradigms
I assume none of the commentators have watched the link because it disappeared off google almost as soon as I put this up, for reasons as yet unknown

I was AGREEING with the broader 9/11 truth movement's objectives but saying that the involvement of Shayler is counterproductive BECAUSE he is involved solely to discredit the rest of you/us.

For fuck's sake! read the thing first!

Have you spent some time with David S?
He goes along with a lot of things which maybe shouldn't be in the public gaze as I do and sometimes, because of his essential truthfulness, that stuff slips out where it shouldn't do, not least in that New Statesman job.
Do you not think that I and many others in the Truth movement are not always looking for the possibility of him and Annie discrediting it? Of course we are, and other than those who study this kind of thing and suspect their motives as a matter of ideology, I think his influence is pretty positive
Many of us can no longer accept the late C20th paradigms, positions, perceptions, constructs as any longer valid. We always have to try and evaluate and refine our discernment of how things actually are, if we're to keep ahead of the bastards in control who are promulgating this chaos and confusion to their own ends
Glad you're generally with us - please keep an open rather than prejudiced mind

"Have you spent some time with David S?"

No, but I spent a lot of time in prison with people he helped to put there. Fuck Shayler, he is scum.

Shayler talks about aliens, orbs and holograms.

Enough said.

WAKE THE FUCK UP, YOU DUMB WANABE 'ACITIVISTS', YOU MAKE THE REST OF US LOOK JUST AS MENTAL AS YOU.

We know 9:11 was an inside job without the need for holograms and orbs. Jesus Christ.

You're turning a real issue in to a joke.

People can change
I'm happy to challenge his guilt the next time
I think this very fact has moved him on
People aren't immutable

Please provide proof of this, mate, or it's just false accusation. Sounds more like my most off the wall catterwaulings rather than anything David's said
Put up or shut up

Just some of the shit this month:

 http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/cal_lite.php?id=201&mode=display&cl_d=17&cl_m=10&cl_y=2006
 http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/cal_lite.php?id=221&mode=display&cl_d=19&cl_m=10&cl_y=2006
 http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/cal_lite.php?id=230&mode=display&cl_d=6&cl_m=10&cl_y=2006
 http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/cal_lite.php?id=231&mode=display&cl_d=13&cl_m=10&cl_y=2006
 http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/cal_lite.php?id=232&mode=display&cl_d=20&cl_m=10&cl_y=2006
 http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/cal_lite.php?id=233&mode=display&cl_d=27&cl_m=10&cl_y=2006

Go call for backup from your fellow cheerleaders.

Below is an article I wrote last year following their appearance at the Anarchist Bookfair. Shaylor is trading on some mythical kudos that the left is giving him and on just a political position then we should sideling him as pretty irrelevant.

They are a red hering, and will only be divisive if we allow ourselves to spend time on them and others of their ilk.

The political critique of the 9/11 truth movement also suck - beyond exposing just what is it's goal? I have actually been to a meeting of their local group and found it so prejudiced as to be pointless debating. When I tried to actually discuss the physics behind some of the claims being put forward (some of which were blatantly contradictory) I was simply ignored in favour of hollow cliches. This appears to me to be a movement with a poor grasp of the principles of investigation and thus contains the seeds of its own failure and irrelevancy. Raising suspicion to the status of fact is always a recipy for disaster, and that is what is clearly going on in the 9/11 Truth "movement". Shaylor is clearly only exasperating this trend, but it was already there, independent of him.

Who Cares Loses: Shaylor & Machon

Last week at the Anarchist Bookfair in London (good craic by the way; lots of energy and buzz as people seem to have recovered from the G8 properly) there was a bit of fuss over the presence of ex-spooks David Shaylor and Annie Machon. This pair and their supporters were attempting to have a talk, though it appears that the organisers were not fully aware of this. Subsequently, it was claimed that they were barred from speaking at the Freedom To Protest conference the following day – they were never invited in the first place and there was no actual reason why they would have been relevant given the parameters of that conference.

I have next to no idea what they wanted to talk about, but my question is why should it matter whether they are spooks or not. Not that I approve of spooks at all. No, my question is what is their politics? Are they anarchists? Are they simply moaning about the government and some of it's branches without understanding that it is the entire system that is part of the problem and not that bit they have their beef with?

To me, the Shaylor & Machon situation is a distraction. It is playing on egos and people feeling they have a special role to play. Where are these two getting stuck in with local organisation or promoting a fairer politics system – it doesn't seem like that to me, but rather they are trading on their political status granted by the liberal, left-wing side of the press (ie. Guardian/Independent journalists, etc). This agenda is still within the old frame work of leftist politics with its dependence on the existence of a centralised government.

For this point alone I would argue is sufficient to sideline them. However, another angle is that we are expected to put this pair on a pedestal because they have bucked the system in some way. Sorry, no pedestals. I'm not suppressing their right to speak, just saying that there are more appropriate forums, and as an autonomist I'm wondering just what it is they have to say that is actually relevant. I could be wrong, so please enlighten me if I am, but to date I've not seen the evidence that they matter. Until this argument is put forward then even worrying about them is causing us to loose out by distracting us into the politics of left and right authoritianism yet again.

Written in response to www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/10/326418.html

He's a minor celebrity, with a meaningful history and a bit of a draw. He's got a big gob and can articulate the case ok. Why would we not use him. If he's got a radio show, then why would we not provide links to that.
What on earth makes that shit? Nothing except your opinion that it's shit. What else do you think is shit? Rather a lot, I should imagine, and so it remains unless you do something to radically change things.Otherwise you just stay eternally in the 'struggle' ,in the shit,which is the way some on the left and among the anarchos want to sustain things

Now then, Fatw


"The political critique of the 9/11 truth movement also suck - beyond exposing just what is it's goal? "

The movement true expounds no political goals - it tries to be a broad spectrum movement after all. However, what is the conclusion to be drawn, if one comes to accept that the government in the Uk and the government in the US, and the power network behind them, the myltinational companies, the bankers, the intelligence agencies, the higher ranks of the FBI and the Met, Norad commanders and so on are provably mass murders on a scale, far greater than all the serial killers of the past two centuries, who have received life sentences or execution for their crimes
Perhaps that is why David and Annie find themselves trying to address anarchists, who they believe should be least trusting of government spin, but many of whom seem to prefer to swallow wholesale, at least when it comes to 9/11, 7/7 and other false flag operations ongoing and throughout history, which have controlled and do control and manipulate populations and events through these repeated deceptive measures

The conclusion must be that the current hierarchical power structure must be taken apart piece by piece and re-ordered according to the needs of the only people who can do that - the mass of the people


"I have next to no idea what they wanted to talk about, but my question is why should it matter whether they are spooks or not. Not that I approve of spooks at all. No, my question is what is their politics? Are they anarchists? Are they simply moaning about the government and some of it's branches without understanding that it is the entire system that is part of the problem and not that bit they have their beef with? "

If you listen to David Shayler, eg from any of the 'shit' Fanclub' lists, you will find that their analysis goes far deeper than moaning about the government , and he has advocated on numerous occasions, mass civil disobedience to bring the system down
Does he have to wave a red and black flag and act in accordance with the answers from some anarchocommunist FAQ

I think some anarchists have no interest whatsoever in changing the system or improving anybody's lives. They prefer to maintain their perpetual struggle against authority and the authoritarians, just like the Trots and their permanent revolution , and the converted neo-con Trots and their permanent war. La lutte continue.

Trouble is time is tight, the ID card precedes the subdermal ID chip, the labour camps are there ready in the US, and Murdoch's press has already advocated opening up all the hundreds of acres and hundreds of buildings left in now disused military bases throughout the UK for 'the prison overflow' Perpetual surveillence and monitoring, repeated "terror" alerts and staged "terror" events, including the expected next Big One, to justify attacking Iran, rounding up dissidents, that includes you, crushing freedom of expression to a greater extent than it already has been ,martial law, mass killing growing throughout the world and extending back in to the homelands.
There is no time to worry about taking the correct line, following the (no) party line of the red and black flag wavers.
The criminal structures heading the power systems throughout the world must be exposed to the mass of the people and soon. Carping at those trying to do just that constitutes effective support for the system

PS To any anarchists wishing to push their point of view towards how we create a better form of social and collective order, you would be more than welcome to do so under the 'Positive Vibrations' section of the West Yorks groups forum, clickable from the webpage link

Face it dh, you and newcomers like you who talk bullshit will not be tolerated.

Just look at the comments posted here, nobody supports those damn spooks.

The only place you can find support for the spooks will be on the 9/11 truth movement site, and the cheerleaders (such as yourself) who feel the need to defend the spooks that have spilled over to here.

Do your research on them dh, you moron.

I'm laughing at you, as the rest of the activist community is.

Don't suck Shaylers dick too hard, it might come off in your mouth.

So yeah they send you to prison but have had a change of heart and now want to be friends?

Oops!

Until the next time.

Remember Shayler is claiming to have a spiritual awakening at the BGG and is no longer looking for media attention or making money.

Well done Dave, are you one of us now?

Until the next deal comes rolling in.

Both Shayler and Machon are all about THEMSELVES.

They put anarchists inside but now want our help and support? Fuck that, wake up and get real.

They are the enemy. And so are you if you help these bastards.

Why the fuck you throw in other information beyond 9/11 is a mystery. Can't you people have one clear objective and stick to it without running off to other areas to try and back yourself up?

9/11, inside job? OKAY, stick to that.. tell us about 9/11, not your paranoid delusions of a one world govt. Or don't you have enough 'evidence' to support your claims? Stay focused, and as other people have mentioned, your meetings seem more like a cult than a movement.

Yes, a cult.

Now I really object to being called that
I posted consistently from 2001 to 2003 in indymedia on 911 and other conspiracy topics
Check it out sneery tossers
I was the first to call 911 the American Reichstag,here at least, on that same evening
Do not for fucks sake dare to call me a newcomer or in thrall to Shayler, and by the way as far as I'm concerned, those most recent posters are all solidly fellating the establishment whatever their outward posturing

"Face it dh, you and newcomers like you who talk bullshit will not be tolerated."
Well, I do face it and although the substance at the top of this thread has been a dead link since soon after I posted it (we are trying to sort this by the way) and although the IM admin have been active today, yet this thread is still not hidden
Why? Because this is an activist movement catching fire and on its way up
It's protected in a way because the government and law enforcement agencies fear that by taking action against it, will give it credence.
Indymedia has moved from a period of total censorship to allowing everything up here
So I'm afraid to report we are tolerated (just see this go down now)
And it's not bullshit
If you're not dissembling just wake up

"Both Shayler and Machon are all about THEMSELVES."
Maybe so, egotists can always be useful
But what have they got to sell - their one book - that doesn't make a lot of money
They're willing to make the excursion whether or not they're recompensed for it
Is MI5 paying their way? Maybe, but I'm quite happy to have them here as long as the right message is being spread
Maybe some people here can't accept that they're being fed constructed reality which has been built over a long period of time. Perhaps they need to take time out from their ideology and the supportive media feed to see what's actually occurring

looks like heidisvenson's returned to spread her poisonous vomit

The so-called anarchist movement is being manouevred into a fake position that actually supports government lies

So what's going on with the shayler in leeds video? Have you withdrawn it or is google not publishing it?

cheerz

David shayler and his partner Annie (get your gun) machon are in my opinion as dodgy as fuck. Ever since shayler and machon turned whistleblowers they have moved from one political campaign/group to another always spouting a new script. When working with civil liberties campaigners group LIBERTY they ostensibly sympathised with civil and political rights something they singularly failed to adhere to themselves when they were employed by MI5. Next they were parachuting into the Stop the war coalition with Shayler and Machon participating in demos against the war on Afghanistan in (2001) and Iraq (2002-3) as well as speaking at many Stop the war public meetings across the country. From around 2005 there came another change of script, Shayler and Machon now claimed sympathy and indeed support for the bullgoose crackpot theory that 9/11 was an inside job even claiming that the planes crashing into the twin towers were in fact merely holograms and that the twin towers were brought down by a detonation of explosives planted underneath the tower. This behaviour has all the hallmarks of people who are either seeking to infltrate groups to gather intelligence and pass on to the authorities or the work of a couple of opportunists who are just trying to climb on the conspiracy bandwagon in the knowledge that that is where the publicity and indeed the money is.

is that they have developed their views, have been banned from platforms such as STW and move on
I'll agree that there might be some over-exposure and am thinking along the lines of using and developing less known or unknown speakers, who are equally good
Ian Crane from Totnes i exceptionally good on these issues though is little known outside conspiracy and crop circles - um - circles
How does that suit you?

I'm a bit new to this but why do you trust an ex spook ? why would you trust a grass ? why would you trust an informer ? what exactly have they done to gain the trust of enemies of the state[[ us lot ]...if some ex copper came up to me with some top secret info I'd tell them to shove it...please correct me if I'm wrong..ACAB

The 'alternative' view (Shayler defence), doesn't accord with the known facts of Shayler and Machon's changing views. And as regards 'Stop the War', we are still waiting for the dodgy duo to provide a scintilla of evidence for his claim at the Anarchist Bookfair 25/10/05 that Stop the War had been been penetrated". Shayler and Machon are spook con-artists, and thankfully many on this thread are not taken in.

that not many are taken in by so-called anarchists that seek only to promote the government line by attacking those that so thoroughly oppose it

anarchists who peddle the official story on 911 and beleive WTC wasn't blown the fuck up, how that's what I call suspicious.

wonder who sponsors their suspect borderland magazine? MI5

Heidi svenson and Notes from the borderland collective have never had links to MI5 past or present whatsoever unlike Shayler and Machon that is. If you have evidence that NFTB have such links then produce the evidence otherwise just stop posting smears on these boards.

face it dh, you've lost. are you really the only one who can't see that you've been duped?

mind you, they are pros.

but what about the rest of the 911 cult?

Shayler + ex MI5 (MI5 bad) + mentions Zionism (socialy unacceptable) and no-planes (i unfortunately) = Shill! do not trust him.

It's not as simple as that.

The 'shayler is a government agent' conspiracy theory does not jive with the facts. Do you think his whistleblowing and term of imprisonment almost ten years ago was all faked in order to have a false whistleblower agent to infiltrate future movements? Or do you think he has re entered the fold since then? If the government wanted to infiltrate the 9/11 truth movement, don't you think they would go for someone less obvious than an ex MI5 agent? I'm surprised to see followers of the government accounts propagating their own, far more radical, unfounded conspiracy theories.

9/11 truth is not about Shayler anyhow. He's just a 'name' who is avilable at the moment which the movement are taking advantage of.