HOME | IMC UK | Editorial Guidelines | Mission Statement | About Us | Contact | Help | Support Us

Liverpool Indymedia

How Nonviolence Protects The State

Neon Black | 27.01.2008 00:30 | Analysis | Culture | Social Struggles | Liverpool

'All the power's in the hands/Of people rich enough to buy it/While we walk the street/Too chicken to even try it' - The Clash, White Riot

American anarchist Peter Gelderloos visited Liverpool's Next To Nowhere social centre last night, to discuss the limitations of nonviolence as a strategy for achieving social change, and sell a few copies of his book, How Nonviolence Protects The State.

Gelderloos - who is facing what looks like a politically-motivated prosecution on terrorism charges in Spain - spoke with a largeish crowd for a Friday evening, delivering a forty minute presentation, which was followed by a wide-ranging, thought-provoking and often heated discussion.

Peter explained how for him - and for other anarchists - the state itself is violence, both physical and mental, against everyone it governs. If anarchy would mean peace and fluffiness, the most important question is how do we get there? He then took on the 'false histories' and premises of nonviolence one by one.

Advocates of nonviolence often point to Gandhi and Martin Luther King as success stories who achieved their goals through entirely peaceful methods. However, Gandhi claimed that violent methods are better than using nonviolence to hide your passivity, whilst King was often protected by the Black Panthers. Neither had nonviolence brought an end to the war in Vietnam. Instead, a combination of Vietnamese resistance and US soldier mutinies had convinced the authorities that it was time for a tactical retreat. By extension, there was no way that exclusively passive tactics could end the Iraqi bloodbath.

He also examined the elitistist nature of nonviolence, a strategy which has little credence in the majority world (where direct physical repression is an everyday reality), but has many followers in the relatively comfortable imperialist nations. He painted a picture of mainly white protesters looking down on the non-whites for sinking to the level of the authorities. It's a moralising attitide which is powerless in the face of direct confrontation with the police and/or military, because it preserves the state's monopoly on force. The state and white liberals lay down the rules of the game, then reap the rewards. For Gelderloos, exclusive non-violence is controlling and therefore inherently hierarchical, especially when supposed 'activists' report their fellow activists to the authorities. My thoughts turned to Stop The War marches when I have seen orange bibbed Socialist Workers Party stewards point-out people taking direct action to the police.

After a short break, we began our discussion. Tempers quickly became frayed, as is inevitable when long-held beliefs are challenged. It was uncomfortable but fascinating to see people struggling to fight their ways through layers of indoctrination by the state and the media, to find out what they actually thought was the best strategy for change. That's not to say that everyone was convinced by the arguments, because they certainly weren't, but I think everyone gained a deeper understanding of the other's point of view. And the perspectives aren't really opposing, as long as we grasp that whatever our tactics, the real enemy is the capitalist state, and that revolution - an act of taking back what has been stolen from us - cannot be entirely passive.

Peter Gelderloos is at the Edinburgh Quaker Meeting House on Sunday, the Star and Shadow cinema in Newcastle on Tuesday, the Common Place in Leeds on Thursday, and the Cowley Club in Brighton on Friday.

Neon Black
- Homepage: http://dreaming-neon-black.blogspot.com

Additions

AND don't forget London comrade

27.01.2008 08:14


7pm Saturday Feb 2nd @ Ramparts Social Centre

tour manager


See a reflection on the meeting in Liverpool 25th Jan here:

27.01.2008 15:49

admin


Feedback from Bristol meeting 23 January

27.01.2008 22:05

Here's a brief feedback from the first night of the Peter Gelderloos tour, that was initially circulated on the social centres elist.
Readers may also care to peruse some ongoing debate on the Bristol Indymedia newswire at  http://bristol.indymedia.org/newswire.php?story_id=27274

Hi
Bristol hosted the first night of Peter Gelderloos UK tour 'How non-violence protects the state' last night (23 January). Here's some wee feedback.

We actually headlined it on posters/flyers as 'Tactics for social change' and used a book cover image on the publicity. We kicked off at 7pm with tea/cake/info informally and moved into the meeting at 7.30pm. Peter spoke for about 40 minutes, followed by a 10 min break, followed by about 70minutes discussion. Kebele gave a brief intro and set out some 'house rules', but Peter himself facilitated the discussion.

We had approx 45-50 people (our max capacity for biggest room) in the building which is pretty good. Pete seemed a bit rusty to start with, well it was the first nite! His talk was good & informative. The discussion that followed was mature with no hysterics. The vast majority accepted the 'diversity of tactics', with most discussion on how & when violence was a
useful tactic. Pete gave some excellent responses to 'tricky' questions. Attempts were made to focus discussion on tactics for a real/imagined local campaign - this is worth trying as it moves away from old violence/nonviolence debate into the here and now.

Pete sold 8 of his books, and kebele's Infoshop also sold a fair amount of material. £35 quid was raised towards his fares/expenses.

Overall a successful night. Well worth doing. Hope everyone else's event goes as well as ours.
Best wishes to Pete and especially regards his situation in Spain.

Tim @ Kebele
mail e-mail: kebelesocialcentre@riseup.net
- Homepage: http://www.kebelecoop.org


Review of the talk in Cardiff

28.01.2008 10:55

38 people turned up, after the 40 minute talk and short break discussions went on for over two hours (and a fair bit longer after that in the pub opposite.

The crowd was mostly anarchist, but included a fair few others, anti-militarists, welsh nationalists and a few politics students

THe debate was remarkable friendly and un-heated, and though some people referred to themselves as 'pacifistic' at the start of the evening, by the time we were on the way home, everybody was talking of the concept of 'non-violence' as both elitist and self defeating.

Recommended.

PADista
- Homepage: http://thepad.wordpress.com


Comments

Hide the following 4 comments

Speak for yourself, Neon Black

28.01.2008 16:58

I don't recognise your description of the Liverpool meeting. I have not been "indoctrinated" by anybody or anything, and I doubt any of the other peace-inclined people were either. Peter Gelderloos's book is too overtly propagandist and simplistic to be persuasive, and his take on history is not original. His criticisms of the historic pacificist movements have been written about before by other writers, I was reading some of them 11 years ago when I did my history degree.
You failed to describe how most of the "frayed tempers" at the meeting were caused by our Resident Airhead aggressively asserting that children do not need protection from violence. She clearly has a problem with people who think that they do.
I find it a strange contradiction that people -anarchists, mainly - who profess to want to bring about a fairer, more equal world espouse violent methods to bring that about. This espousal of violence inevitably produces in them a callous attitude, or at least a disrespect, towards other human beings. Violence is always a tool for oppression, whoever uses it.

Carol


And didn't a supposed anarchist once say

28.01.2008 21:46

that when activists use violence, the response of the State is to respond with superior violence?

I'll stick with the peaceful methods thank you very much, each to their own as long as they don't hurt me or anyone I love.

peaceful and proud


Airhead???

29.01.2008 01:42

This must be some strange new definition of the word 'airhead', to mean someone who breathes air and has a head. She did not suggest that children don't need protecting from violence, that is a total (and I imagine deliberate) misstatement of her case. Think what you will about the efficacy of violence within a revolutionary struggle (or even the need for one), but at least call it as you actually saw it, and bring up the problems you have with people to their face, instead of chatting and accepting drinks off them afterwards as if nothing has happened.

Neon Black


Agreed

29.01.2008 20:11

You're right. That was hypocrisy. Except, I don't dislike the person concerned, (or anybody else) just the politics and the presentation.

Carol


Kollektives

Birmingham
Cambridge
Liverpool
London
Oxford
Sheffield
South Coast
Wales
World

Other UK IMCs
Bristol/South West
London
Northern Indymedia
Scotland

Topics

Afghanistan
Analysis
Animal Liberation
Anti-Nuclear
Anti-militarism
Anti-racism
Bio-technology
Climate Chaos
Culture
Ecology
Education
Energy Crisis
Fracking
Free Spaces
Gender
Globalisation
Health
History
Indymedia
Iraq
Migration
Ocean Defence
Other Press
Palestine
Policing
Public sector cuts
Repression
Social Struggles
Technology
Terror War
Workers' Movements
Zapatista

[navigation.actions2016]

[navigation.actions2015]

[navigation.actions2014]

NATO 2014

Actions 2013

G8 2013

Actions 2012

Workfare

Actions 2011

2011 Census Resistance
August Riots
Dale Farm
J30 Strike
Occupy Everywhere

Actions 2010

Flotilla to Gaza
Mayday 2010
Tar Sands

Actions 2009

COP15 Climate Summit 2009
G20 London Summit
Guantánamo
Indymedia Server Seizure
University Occupations for Gaza

Actions 2008

2008 Days Of Action For Autonomous Spaces
Campaign against Carmel-Agrexco
Climate Camp 2008
G8 Japan 2008
SHAC
Smash EDO
Stop Sequani Animal Testing
Stop the BNP's Red White and Blue festival

Actions 2007

Climate Camp 2007
DSEi 2007
G8 Germany 2007
Mayday 2007
No Border Camp 2007

Actions 2006

April 2006 No Borders Days of Action
Art and Activism Caravan 2006
Climate Camp 2006
Faslane
French CPE uprising 2006
G8 Russia 2006
Lebanon War 2006
March 18 Anti War Protest
Mayday 2006
Oaxaca Uprising
Refugee Week 2006
Rossport Solidarity
SOCPA
Transnational Day of Action Against Migration Controls
WSF 2006

Actions 2005

DSEi 2005
G8 2005
WTO Hong Kong 2005

Actions 2004

European Social Forum
FBI Server Seizure
May Day 2004
Venezuela

Actions 2003

Bush 2003
DSEi 2003
Evian G8
May Day 2003
No War F15
Saloniki Prisoner Support
Thessaloniki EU
WSIS 2003

IMCs


www.indymedia.org

Projects
print
radio
satellite tv
video

Africa

Europe
antwerpen
armenia
athens
austria
barcelona
belarus
belgium
belgrade
brussels
bulgaria
calabria
croatia
cyprus
emilia-romagna
estrecho / madiaq
galiza
germany
grenoble
hungary
ireland
istanbul
italy
la plana
liege
liguria
lille
linksunten
lombardia
madrid
malta
marseille
nantes
napoli
netherlands
northern england
nottingham imc
paris/île-de-france
patras
piemonte
poland
portugal
roma
romania
russia
sardegna
scotland
sverige
switzerland
torun
toscana
ukraine
united kingdom
valencia

Latin America
argentina
bolivia
chiapas
chile
chile sur
cmi brasil
cmi sucre
colombia
ecuador
mexico
peru
puerto rico
qollasuyu
rosario
santiago
tijuana
uruguay
valparaiso
venezuela

Oceania
aotearoa
brisbane
burma
darwin
jakarta
manila
melbourne
perth
qc
sydney

South Asia
india


United States
arizona
arkansas
asheville
atlanta
Austin
binghamton
boston
buffalo
chicago
cleveland
colorado
columbus
dc
hawaii
houston
hudson mohawk
kansas city
la
madison
maine
miami
michigan
milwaukee
minneapolis/st. paul
new hampshire
new jersey
new mexico
new orleans
north carolina
north texas
nyc
oklahoma
philadelphia
pittsburgh
portland
richmond
rochester
rogue valley
saint louis
san diego
san francisco
san francisco bay area
santa barbara
santa cruz, ca
sarasota
seattle
tampa bay
united states
urbana-champaign
vermont
western mass
worcester

West Asia
Armenia
Beirut
Israel
Palestine

Topics
biotech

Process
fbi/legal updates
mailing lists
process & imc docs
tech

Publish Your News


Temporary Scroogle search

-->