HOME | IMC UK | Editorial Guidelines | Mission Statement | About Us | Contact | Help | Support Us

Oxford Indymedia

small victory - BBC withdraw interview invitation to the BNP

Andy newman | 05.06.2004 23:35 | Anti-racism | Oxford

Pleased to announce that Wiltshire BBC, who were planning to interview the BNP about Unite Against Fascism leafleting have pulled the item.

Basically, the BBC were bombarded with phone calls and e-mails. As discussed on this earlier thread, where you can find the background to the story:
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/westcountry/2004/06/292726.html

With regard to tactics of our refusing to debate with the BNP, I think we have to look at each situation. At the moment the BNP have only just got a little toe hold in the media, and the effect of official bodies like trade unions and elected MPs, etc refusing to appear with them can make the BBC etc. change their minds. So that is what we should be doing at the moment.

The “no platform” argument is to continually remind everyone that the BNP are not part of the legitimate democratic debate, because they want to destroy democracy themselves. However things change, and maybe we will have to adjust our tactics in the future.

In the 1970s “no platform” worked out in the end, with the NF eventually being squeezed off the air, and I remember even the BBC once describing them as the “neo-Nazi National Front” (showing my age). But that was then and this is now.

The NF were much bigger than the BNP, but the BNP have been more succesful in elections – that means that it is easier for the BBC to fall into the trap of treating the BNP as an ordinary political party. If we end up in the situation like in Italy where the fascists do regularly get on the telly, then maybe we will have to debate with them, but let’s cross that bridge when we come to it.

But for now – I think no-platform still works, and this small victory shows that the main stream media can be made to withdraw invites to the fascists.

FYI The following press release was therefore issued to the local Swindon and Wiltshire newspapers:

Notes for editors:
I am issueing this hoping to get a story that will show cross party condemnation for the BNP, and some exposure of that party's extremism in advance of thursday's elections. You may of course feel obliged to ask the BNP to comment for balance, but please leave in as much negative stuff as possible about the BNP - we are not trying to get publicity for ourselves so we would much rather it didn't run at all rather than run in a form that might help the BNP.
All the negative facts about the BNP can be verified:  http://www.stopthebnp.com/

Wiltshire BBC in BNP interview storm.

Wiltshire BBC have backed down over plans to give a radio interview to the extremist BNP on D-Day, 6th June after scores of local people telephoned and e-mailed the BBC to complain, including James Gray MP and Julia Drown MP.

Swindon campaigners from Unite Against Fascism leafleted Calne on 6th June against the BNP, who are standing in the Euro elections. The BBC offered to interview Andy Prendergast of Unite Against fascism on Matthew Smith's Sunday Morning programme about why he considers the BNP a fascist party. However, the BBC then said that the BNP’s Press Officer would also be on the programme.

Mr Prendergast, who is an official of the GMB union in Swindon, then withdrew from the programme rather than give the BNP free publicity. The BBC then said they intended to proceed anyway with the BNP interview.

Andy Newman, spokesperson for Unite Against Fascism explained: “The BNP pose as respectable politicians but many of their leading members have convictions for violence, and race hatred. 355000 British and Commonwealth Servicemen died fighting Hitler’s Nazis so it is quite wrong to give a platform to the BNP on the 60th anniversary of D-Day. The BNP pose as patriotic but the BNP don’t even support the England football team, because some players are black or Jewish! So when I learned that BBC were planning to give them air-time I immediately contacted as many people as I could and asked them to complain. I am glad the BBC changed their mind - this is an example of peoples’ power!”

James Gray, conservative MP for North Wilts wrote to the BBC: “The BNP are not a legitimate political party, and their extremist racist views are not welcome over Wiltshire's airwaves.”

Julia Drown, Labour MP for Swindon South rang the BBC to complain, and said she was very pleased that the BBC had changed their decision.

Mark Weaver, also wrote to the BBC: “I am a Liberal Democrat candidate in Swindon. I am planning to take time out from our campaign to come to Calne to support Unite Against Fascism on Sunday. I understand that you have used the event to give an interview to the BNP. The point of the action is that the BNP are beyond the pale of normal political discourse and I wish to complain about the organization being given airtime.”

The BNP gained coverage in the Swindon Evening Advertiser, and its sister paper the Wiltshire Gazette and Herald earlier this year by wrongly claiming they would be standing candidates in Swindon and Malmesbury for the local elections. However, they were unable to find candidates in either town because the BNP has very little support in Wiltshire.

Kirsty Ward, BBC News Editor stated that the item had been withdrawn because it was not news.

Andy newman

Comments

Hide the following 25 comments

oh yeah I forget

05.06.2004 23:44

Oh one small point - we did have a fall back plan which was that the BBC would read out a prepared statement from us about why we were refusing to debate with the BNP

andy again


silly ridiculous pointless

06.06.2004 14:55

the BNP have to be heard and their views challenged [either youre in favour of free speech or youre not] there is not one inch of middle ground

All this demonising of the BNP ... actually led by New Labour in fact (all NL MP's are saying this) ducks the issue that Blairite Labour people are waging a holy war against koran reading foreigners

Who are the real racists here?

BTW I don't deny that elements in the BNP leadership are racist - but Immigration creates a serious legitimate housing problem for traditional UK working class communities

Stop demonising stop censoring and start debating - then we can force the BNP to get rid of the neo-fascists within.

Scots and Welsh have perfectly good 'nationalist' parties - but not the English - we should ask why that might be and challenge the BNP publicly on their neo-fascist links.

anon journalist


its right to deniy the BNP a voice

06.06.2004 16:08

this arguement as to wether or not to allow the BNP to air their views has been going on for days.

as andy has pointed out, the BNP if in power would attempt to suppress all political expression ,we would not be able to vote them out of power and therefore pose a real threat to democracy.

other people have argued that we should share a platform and argue with the BNP and show up their ideas and inturn people would be unatracted to the vote BNP>

The point is that the BNP are not going to go on TV and advocate their nazi's idealogoly (which the majority of people would reject). they are slightly more sophisated than that. they would attempt to appeal to the soft racist and blame asylum seekers for all the social problems inturn striking a cord with alot of people, they would say they are a democractic party and tolerate free speech.

what is distressing is that people with racist ideas but are totally against nazism are supporting the BNP and in some cases standing as candidates.for e.g a women who used to be in the green party ,(her mum and dad were green councillors!!!!) is standing as a BNP candidate in north england , she works for a charity for disabled children. what this candidate refuses to see is that if the BNP did get into power those disabled children she cares for would be seen as useless/burden and not part of the "master Race" and likely to be exterminated as they were in nazi germany.

the BNP will use all tactics at their disposal to get into power, they are not the old nazis like the 70's NF, they dont march down the streets sieg heiling or brandish swazstickers. they wear suits and despretaly seeking to be respectable. they look to le pen NF for ideas. one of the main reason that Le Pen NF has done so well is that the frence left refused to call them nazi and allowed them to have a platform , the NF in france is huge and the left need to be exposed them as nazis and not respectable politions.

therefore the same principles apply as in the 70's NF- no platform to nazis.

red letter


Excellent news

06.06.2004 16:09

"the BNP have to be heard and their views challenged"

They are heard. They have a web site of their own, they are free to hold speeches and debates, now they even have Party Political Broadcasts funded by the license fee, for fucks sake. Do the taxpayers really need to give them even more space to spew out their lies?

"[either youre in favour of free speech or youre not] there is not one inch of middle ground"

People who have vocally denounced freedom of speech in the past, and make no secret of their plans to clamp down on freedom of all kinds, have no right to demand a publicly-funded platform on the grounds of "free speech". And your categorical assertion that there is no middle ground is simply wrong. Life is complex. Middle ground exists everywhere, and in abundance.

"All this demonising of the BNP ... actually led by New Labour in fact "

Pardon? New Labour are issuing orders to the Conservative and Lib Dem parties now? I think you overestimate them.

"...ducks the issue that Blairite Labour people are waging a holy war against koran reading foreigners"

That's a separate issue. Nothing to do with whether the BNP deserve more time on the BBC.

"Who are the real racists here?"

Hm. I suspect you are, for one, Mr. BNP astroturf-man.

"BTW I don't deny that elements in the BNP leadership are racist - but Immigration creates a serious legitimate housing problem for traditional UK working class communities "

Yes, you are from the BNP, aren't you. Elements? They're racist from top to bottom, and most of them have criminal convictions for it.

"Stop demonising stop censoring and start debating - then we can force the BNP to get rid of the neo-fascists within."

When you get rid of the fascists within, what will be left? Won't you at least need someone to answer the phone? :)

Ian


Are Brett Lock and the BNP opposite sides of the same coin ?

06.06.2004 17:14

What with Brett Lock also paradoxicaly advocating and even participating in giving the BNP a platform to promote their views here on Indymedia...(see  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/06/292615.html ), and even on the BBC...(see  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/06/292726.html )

David


WTF?

06.06.2004 18:35

AFAIK all Brett did was argue that the BNP's arguments should be challenged... and now it seems you're comparing him to the BNP.

What is going on with all these random personal attacks on this random guy?

What on earth did he do to get up your nose so much?

mystified


but the BNP are *inherently* fascist!!

06.06.2004 18:44

WTF are you on about anon journo, waxing lyrical for want of a nonfascist English nationalist party?

Unlike the Scots and Welsh, English is a dominant culture and so any English nationalism would inevitably be linked to fascism. For example, English is spoken all over the world, whereas Welsh was forcibly supressed within living memory.

Why do you feel you need an English nationalism? What would its purpose be if it wasn't fascist/racist?

mystified


No they are not!

06.06.2004 19:32

...Brett Lock and the BNP are NOT opposite sides of the same coin!! That's just as stupid as saying "the SWP and the BNP are opposite sides of the same coin"!! How can people/groups who openly campaign against the BNP be opposite sides of the same coin??? Brett Lock in particular, who spent time in prison for opposing the Apartheid regime, certainly could not be considered a BNP supporter!! LEAVE IT OUT!! ...and get back to the original point (Brett Lock please come back, we forgive you!)

As for the original posting: Fantastic! This just demonstrates how clever tactics can be applied with minimum effort to stop these scum!! I think the "no platform" position has been covered above and I fully agree with this. As to the point of weather we will have to debate with them on tv "if it gets like it is in Italy": Please don't let it get this far!! I live in Italy and I know what this is like!! The point is though, it is exactly tactics like this that stop the Fascists from "making their breakthrough" -to quote Griffin. It really is great to see people getting together in the UK and stopping these scum!!

Keep up the good work!!

Oh, the "anon journalist" is a BNP troll so don't feed him!!

Andy


Andy asked...

07.06.2004 00:48


"How can people/groups who openly campaign against the BNP be opposite sides of the same coin???"

Never heard of a paradox ?

Andy then wrote "Brett Lock...could not be considered a BNP supporter"

Who claimed he was a BNP supporter....? (Nice bit of subversion there mate !)

'opposite sides of the same coin' does not equate to 'a BNP supporter' ..although it could mean they both have fascist ideologies. Before dismising the idea out off hand, read the argument and judge for yourself:

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/06/292615.html

BTW, I take it you will have noticed that Bush and Kerry will be opposing each other in the forth comming elections...would you consider them to be opposite sides of the same coin ?

David


As for the BNP

07.06.2004 01:53

IMHO, all that has to happen is for a few media (TV) documentries to do some serious indepth investigations, showing the masses what the BNP real intentions are, their roots, and ideologies, and it's would be all over for them at BNP headquaters. No body in their right mind would vote for them. Only a tiny minority with a twisted sense of right and wrong would see any attraction, and they would probably be to demented to make any real threat to serious politics.

Why hasn't this already happend ?

Because it serves TPTB to keep things as they are - divided, in perpetual chaos !

In a fair and honest world the BNP should of course be allowed to have their say - but we don't live in that nice fluffy world. Until such TV programs are made I would go with the 'No Platform!' strategy. If people had been truly aware of Hitlers' real intentions, I'm sure they would not have ever given him a platform - and a great many inocent lives would have been saved.

Also, perhaps we should be aware to the fact that campiagning for free speach is surely a double-edge-sword....i.e. when our government use D-notices, and when networking with media whores to controll their agenda is seen as acceptable PR.

David


Here we go again!

07.06.2004 06:05

Hmm.... are you perhaps the same David who had a lengthy spat with Brett Lock on a similarly themed thread only a couple of days ago? If so, then perhaps there's some personal animosity there. A shame, because Indymedia could have great potential. As it is, we run the risk of it becoming a soapbox for personal vendettas and sectarian squabbling.

Overall, I am glad that the BBC have declined the BNP airtime, particularly so close to the elections. However, I suspect that the far right may attempt to portray themselves as victims of the (in their paranoid fantasies) 'liberal media' too.

Keep fighting the reactionaries.

Thank you

Caz

Independent Left


Yup, more trolling

07.06.2004 08:12

Yup, it's the same David, trolling away, spreading his bizarre homphobia all over another thread.

His latest hobbyhorse is trying to show that Outrage are Nazis, so we can expect him to disrupt every discussion on how to fight the BNP with his nonsense.


Louis Aragon


Opposite sides of the political spectrum!!

07.06.2004 13:32

Ok, some of you guys think "David" is a troll. Well, I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt as, if he really was a propper "troll" then the IMC admin-ers would have got him (they've done a pretty reliable job so far! -Zapp that BNP troll!!). This is how I see it: Brett Lock (along with possibly some of Outrage??) have a slight problem with Islam. This is a tactical issue as I do think that these guys are genuinely against the BNP and we can discuss thus elsewhere...

"David" however is clearly a homophobe, but I am prepared to accept he is genuine in wanting to fight the BNP -am I right?? Ok, we can discuss homophobia elsewhere (come on Brett, get some Outrage stuff on here, I'm itching to get stuck into this!). The point here again is tactical: If we are gonna defeat the BNP we want as many people as possible involved in an anti-Fascist campaign (I happen to beleive UAF have got this exactly right, but others may dissagree?). Now, given that Gays in general represent about 10% of the population -probably THE largest "minority group" there is, we want them on our side to defeat Fascism. (I mean man, have you seen the size of those "Gay Pride" marches -these guys represent an army!!). Not to mention the fact that gays will be executed by Fascists if we let them in!! Now do you see where we are at?? If we wanna defeat Fascism then WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER!! Jesus! if we are ok about getting a Tory MP to phone the beeb to stop the BNP getting on telly then surely we can work with gay rights groups on this (weather you like gays or not!!)?? Besides, gays can put up a good fight when they want to as well (did no-one ever tell you about Stonewall?? -these guys make Black Block look like a bishop's tea party!!) Let me paraphrase a famous ant-Fascist poem to help demonstrate this:

First they came for the Muslims
but I didn't stand up because I am not a Muslim
(this applies to YOU Brett Lock)

Then they came for the homosexuals
but I didn't stand up because I am not a homosexual
(this applies to YOU "David"!!)

Then they came for the Communist
and I didn't stand up because I am not a Communist

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not stand up because I am not a trade unionist

Then they came for me (the troll??)
but then it was too late because there was no-one left to stand up for me!

(Primo Levi I think??)

David: Don't wait for it to get "too late"!!

If you really do wanna stop the BNP then get out and help UAF leaflet against them in your area. Go on man! The poet has spoken!!

Andy (not Newman)


Point of Informaton

07.06.2004 15:28

I'd like to correct a misuderstanding in the interests of accuracy.

While I was arrested by the security police on a few occasions I was released without charge. Documents where confiscated and stern lectures given about "the Red peril" etc, but I was never imprisoned. Along with thousands of others who disobeyed militart call-ups, I was sought by the military police for a few years but - although there were a few close calls - I successfully evaded them. If caught, the sentence was 6 years. I was lucky, others weren't.

There is a very interesting story in the current edition of Gay Times about a South African who did get caught and went to jail. And of course there were people - real heroes - like Ivan Toms who volunteered to go to jail to draw attention to the conscientious objector issue.

Brett Lock


Bogus Islamophobia

07.06.2004 16:02

"First they came for the Muslims
but I didn't stand up because I am not a Muslim
(this applies to YOU Brett Lock)"

I appreciate what you're saying, but this is a little unfair. Neither I nor OutRage! oppose full human rights for Muslims or people of any other religion. We have nothing against any individual Muslim person and deplore any attacks on any person because of their religious background. We are categorically opposed to Islamophobia. However, it is not Islamophobic to criticise specific Islamic groups - like The Muslim Council of Britain - who have serious antigay policies and actively campaign to deny lesbian and gay people their civil and human rights. I have already posted links to their website where they support antigay legislation like Section 28 as well as oppose an equal age of consent, legal recognition of same-sex couples, gay parents and generally infer that homosexuality is an immoral perversion - in case there was any doubt.

How can it be Islamophobic to criticise an organisation (like MCB) that actively campaigns against your human rights, or to point out that it is exclusively Islamic countries that still have the death penalty for homosexuality. In spite of this, most of our criticisms of - and confrontations with - homophobic religious groups has been with the Church of England. So any suggestion that we pick on Islam more than on any other religion is simply not true. But you surely can't expect us to remain silent when the Respect-endorsed PJP try to score points in their constituency by claiming other parties are pro-gay!

Brett Lock


Andy

07.06.2004 16:18

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. If you take a look at the like I provided you will see that I am completely sincere in my intentions, and for the right reasons - to stop fascists.

I mean no malice to anyone, (not even those two snipers above) although this type of topic will envariably raise tempratures. Having said that I hope we are above that stage in the discussion by now.

Cheers, man ! ;)

David


Likewise, Bogus Homophobia

07.06.2004 18:03

Andy, I suspect your intention was probably to appear impartial, and I wasn't going to bother touching on some things you said as I thought things would become evident to anyone following this discussion, however perhaps I should clarify at few points just incase there is any misunderstanding.

The quote: "Then they came for the homosexuals but I didn't stand up because I am not a homosexual (this applies to YOU "David"!!)" is erroneous as I am attemting to prevent what I see as an inevitable backlash for gays.

As a straight person who does not have a problem tolerating and showing some respect for gays, providing they also tolerate and show a little respect for those around them, perhaps I can offer this clarification:

Surely what is most obvious from reading this, and the thread in question, is the sheer intolerance displayed by those whose opinions I oppose - and when we get down to it, just how extreme is my opinion really ? Not really that extreme at all, especially when you consider that it is supported by gays themselves, it's just not 100% behind OutRages' ideologies.

So, maybe it would be worth considering that when all those shout "Homophobe" at anyone who dare disagree with them, they perhaps inadvertantly subverted and devalued the very term 'Homophobia' by using it to define just about anything that is seen as not being 100% behind your own ideologies. A bit like how the accusation of Anti-Semite loses it's true meaning when misused by those who see any criticism of Ariel Sharons policies as Anti-Semitic. In that sense I am about as much homophobic as the readers of Indymedia are Anti-Semitic. Flagrent misuse of either term will surely undermine it's very purpose of defining the particular form of bigotry it serves to oppose.

Just a thought !

Peace.

David


Why we want gays on our side!!

07.06.2004 20:05

...well because they can put up a good fight against Fascists in Holland!! Read the link:  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/06/292925.html

Andy


.... and most folks are on the gays side anyway.

07.06.2004 22:42

An interesting couple of points. David, I'm not sure where you've got the idea that there is going to be an inevitable backlash against gays like Brett - on my estate there's quite a few gay and lesbian couples and everyone's more than supportive of them. (Sorry, supportive sounds patronising, but you know what I mean). Actually, leftist hacks like all of us are viewed with much more suspicion! I often think that the supposedly unorganised working class is far more progressive than many 'activists' give them credit for.

I'm not with Respect, but I showed a couple of old SWP bods that are local organisers the heated debate that Brett and David had over last weekend. Brett - they said that Respect is committed to gay people's and womens human rights, although they admit there is much debate on how to deal with the separate issue of abortion. They feel that working alongside Muslims can weaken the hold of reactionary ideas. David - they said they'd rather you didn't pit Respect against Outrage in future debates as a) they disagree with you about the aetiology of homosexuality and b) it's a diversion from much needed anti-fascist unity.

Thank you

Caz



Independent Left


David = Copeland?

08.06.2004 05:58

leave it caz. David aint interested in talking fash/antifascism with you. look at his old posts and messages - all he's about is trying to prove that gays are 'made' and can be 'unmade', a common obsession for hard-rightists, whose discredited essays he links to. no one on indymedia takes him seriously. neither should you.

great Queeruption gig in holland fighting the fash. sure beats the waffle on here anyway!

Anarcho-Radio


Queer AntiFascism

08.06.2004 11:05

www.naar.org/lagcar will link you to the National Assembly Against Racism's LGBT Coalition Against Racism. They're not perfect, but a good point for lesbians and gay men wanting to organise against the dangers of fascism. Don't know if there are any other specifically LGBT anti-fascist groups in the UK at the mo.

Adric


Dont confuse principles with tactics!

08.06.2004 11:14

Take your point "Anarcho radio" about the waffle: Too much talk and not enough action, BNP wins the election! This guy "David" probably is a distraction but hey, I'm new to this blogging business.

I think "Caz" demonstrated a very constructive example here for all you people who have a problem with Respect: If you've got issues with them, speak to THEM about it!! I'm not a member of Respect, but I would describe myself as being "with" them in the sense that I support anyone having a go at the system. The point about working alongside Muslims is a very important one I think. In fact, I would go further to say that this is THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE FACING THE MOVEMENT THROUGHOUT EUROPE AT THE MOMENT, which is why I am quite prepared to throw my lot in with these Respect guys!! They are getting a lot of flak at the moment (did you notice the Observer have joined in th tyrade??) for forging aliances with "reactionary Islamic groups". The point these guys make about "working alongside Muslims can weaken the hold of reactionary ideas", is exactly what I'm on about here. In fact, I would go further to say that UNLESS we are prepared to work alongside Muslims we cannot even begin to talk to them about reactionary Islamic ideas. They simple won't listen to us! Given the level of Islamophobia sweeping europe at the moment, the last thing we wanna be doing is lecturing them about how they are "against womens rights" or "against gay rights" or "pro-abortion". To them, this will just make us sound like intellectual equivalents of Kilroy-Silk (which is EXACTLY what Nick Cohen's article in the observer sounds like to me:  http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1232361,00.html but hey, maybe I'm just biased??)!!

I am not saying that we duck the issues with these Muslim groups, just not to get confused about principles and tactics. The movement in France made this mistake and look where it got them: evreybody, from Le Pen to the far left groups supported the government's ban on the Muslim headscalf an the grounds that it was "progressive" and would somehow "help liberate Muslim women from oppression". This was a disaster for the movement in France I think and will have the sole effect of pushing Muslims away from collective action with non-Muslims (something we have seen a lot of lately), and into the hands of the Clerics -more worryingly, into the hands of the Al-queda elemnts!!

I am not saying Respect have got it exactly right, what I admire about Respect is at least they are getting their hands dirty and having a go. To me this is a much better strategy than just standing on the sidelines and moralising. If you think they aint going about this right then should you not be showing us how this should be done the right way instead (I think most of the criticism of Respect are more about point-scoring rather than constructive. Some people have a vendetta against the SWP which they are seeking with avengeance. Beware though!! You may end up being quoted by pro-war Balire apologists in the Observer!! I think Respect represents much more than just the SWP too so you ain't doing yourselves any favours ranting about this)?? What the movement needs right now is careful tactics!! Whoever comes out with the best tactics gets my support! Right now it seems like only Respect are prepared to attempt to organise the Muslims. It is much better to form an aliance with muslims and make a few mistakes, than to go down the road of France!!

Andy S


Building Bridges

08.06.2004 12:21

Anarcho, Andy S and Caz. Thanks for a bringing reason back to this thred. We shouldn't let a few bitter anti-gay people derail an honest discussion about tactics. I voted Green (sorry anarcho!) this time, but I appreciate what Andy is saying about Respect working with and building tolerance amongst people. When I went on the big Feb 15 2003 March against the war, I was with my student gay society. There was such a variety of people there - old communists, hippies, punks, pacifist Christians - we even saw the Cornish Independence Party!! We had no problems at all with anyone. I heard about a lad raising a homophobic placard on one part of the march, and all the people around telling him he was out of order & taking it down. Spoke to a couple of Muslim girls who liked my gay rainbow badges and a housewife who was on her first demonstration. There seemed to be alot of mutual respect (no pun intended).

Maybe i'm being over optimistic, coz there are plenty of bigots out there, but there are loads of ordinary people too who are human and friendly.

Regards to all anti-fascists.

Gay lad


Over optimistic??

08.06.2004 13:32

..."Gay lad"

I don't think you are being over optimistic at all!! It is examples like this that we should be building on. The problem at the moment is to avaoid being OVER-PESSIMISTIC!! We have an enormous opportunity in the European movement to branch out and "build bridges" in exactly the way spelled out above. Beleive me, I have been around long enough to realise that we don't get many opportunities like this. They are precious!! We need to stop looking inward and start opening up to other ideas/strategies/initatives, you know, in that post-Seatle sense!! The French experience points to a mistake we should avoid!! Respect are trying a different route, mistakes are being made but if we learn from them we can really take the movement forward I think. If we sit here and do nothing apart from criticising people who some of us clearly don't like, but are at least having a go, then we are definately gonna miss the boat!!

Oh, and thank you for bringing some "optimism" to this thread!!

Andy S


grassroots engagement

10.06.2004 19:18

> The point these guys make about "working alongside Muslims can weaken the
> hold of reactionary ideas", is exactly what I'm on about here. In fact, I
> would go further to say that UNLESS we are prepared to work alongside
> Muslims we cannot even begin to talk to them about reactionary Islamic ideas.

Yes, but there's a huge difference between engaging with Muslims on a grassroots level and engaging with big national right-wing Muslim organisations and/or Muslim 'leaders'. We have to bypass all that and engage with people on a human level.

Unfortunately RESPECT bods (especially Galloway et al) tend to have the traditional top-down party mentality so this really isn't their style! No surprise then, that they work in the ways we've seen.


www.dontjustvote.com
-because our dreams will never fit in their ballot boxes-

.


Publish your news
-->

Kollektives

Birmingham
Cambridge
Liverpool
London
Oxford
Sheffield
South Coast
Wales
World

Other UK IMCs
Bristol/South West
London
Northern Indymedia
Scotland

Oxford Topics

Afghanistan
Analysis
Animal Liberation
Anti-Nuclear
Anti-militarism
Anti-racism
Bio-technology
Climate Chaos
Culture
Ecology
Education
Energy Crisis
Fracking
Free Spaces
Gender
Globalisation
Health
History
Indymedia
Iraq
Migration
Ocean Defence
Other Press
Palestine
Policing
Public sector cuts
Repression
Social Struggles
Technology
Terror War
Workers' Movements
Zapatista

IMCs


www.indymedia.org

Projects
print
radio
satellite tv
video

Africa

Europe
antwerpen
armenia
athens
austria
barcelona
belarus
belgium
belgrade
brussels
bulgaria
calabria
croatia
cyprus
emilia-romagna
estrecho / madiaq
galiza
germany
grenoble
hungary
ireland
istanbul
italy
la plana
liege
liguria
lille
linksunten
lombardia
madrid
malta
marseille
nantes
napoli
netherlands
northern england
nottingham imc
paris/île-de-france
patras
piemonte
poland
portugal
roma
romania
russia
sardegna
scotland
sverige
switzerland
torun
toscana
ukraine
united kingdom
valencia

Latin America
argentina
bolivia
chiapas
chile
chile sur
cmi brasil
cmi sucre
colombia
ecuador
mexico
peru
puerto rico
qollasuyu
rosario
santiago
tijuana
uruguay
valparaiso
venezuela

Oceania
aotearoa
brisbane
burma
darwin
jakarta
manila
melbourne
perth
qc
sydney

South Asia
india


United States
arizona
arkansas
asheville
atlanta
Austin
binghamton
boston
buffalo
chicago
cleveland
colorado
columbus
dc
hawaii
houston
hudson mohawk
kansas city
la
madison
maine
miami
michigan
milwaukee
minneapolis/st. paul
new hampshire
new jersey
new mexico
new orleans
north carolina
north texas
nyc
oklahoma
philadelphia
pittsburgh
portland
richmond
rochester
rogue valley
saint louis
san diego
san francisco
san francisco bay area
santa barbara
santa cruz, ca
sarasota
seattle
tampa bay
united states
urbana-champaign
vermont
western mass
worcester

West Asia
Armenia
Beirut
Israel
Palestine

Topics
biotech

Process
fbi/legal updates
mailing lists
process & imc docs
tech