A letter to UK Uncutters from the 'violent minority'

It never will be you.

You're too useful to the pigs and media.

This is a valuable contribution.

Keep up the good work.

I'll resist (just about!) engaging in some bollocks discussion of which tactic is best, whether the black bloc is cops or not, etc etc yawn. I hope others will be able to resist too and not feed the trolls.

What I'd like to comment on, and that's what this great statement is about, is not accepting divide and rule tactics, and trying to stand together.

The statement doesn't mention that UKUncutters texted back Paul Mason of Newsnight "to point out the difference between themselves and the "black block". I don't know if it's just this that has been repeated in the news elsewhere, or whether UKUncut came out with even worse stuff??

If so, they are just like the TUC leader, the Labour leader or anyone else who feels the need to claim the mantle of the Suffragettes and at the same time blindly call modern day window smashing vandalism, and the Suffragette window-smashing and a lot more heroic.

If not, then they need to make it clear really quickly. If they really feel they have to distance themselves from others protesting against the cuts, then it is possible to neither condemn nor condone, but instead to talk about understanding the anger that makes people do such things, or comparing a measly window to the death and destruction that these businesses are responsible for, etc etc.

Once this is cleared up - SOON PLEASE UK UNCUT - it'll be even easier to all stand together, strong, and in the words of Johnny Cash, against the pricks.

UK UNcut withstood with humour all the challenges and pushing to condemn the black bloc and such like. Well done for not getting bullied by the press, and standing in solidarity.

"But think about it from the store owners' point of view: a broken window may cost £1,000. A lost Saturday's trade through a peaceful occupation would cost many times more. Perhaps this helps explain the harsh police response to the UK Uncut occupation: it hits them where it hurts, in the pocket. "

This is nonsense. A broken window or two doesn't only shut the shop down for a few hours whilst people sit down in it, it shuts it down for the weekend. It requires only a few people and they can do it to every shop on the high street.

"As we saw on Saturday, repression is not provoked by violent actions, but by effective actions"

They were arrested not because of their effectiveness, but because they were static and therefor ineffective. The black bloc shut down shit loads of shops and banks by smashing the shit out of them and very few got arrested.

Lets not get into the reformist nature of UKUncut.

Instead of writing this shite statement full of holes Brighton Solfed could have come helped out outside the police stations trying to pick up the pieces on sunday.

Wank.

Sol Fed? LOL Fed.

On newsnight they were great.

Have you read any of the media coverage which said ukuncut attacked multiple places and lumped all types of action in with each other.

There's a big difference between pointing out a factual error and then going into full on condemnation mode.

Sounds like both groups did a great job in different ways. Not sure if it is the old Gateway 303 trolls trying to stir up division or just genuine activists getting too caught up in their own thing, but for sure this kind of public infighting isn't helpful.

I say fuck the rich, and good job to those smashing up rich businesses, and good luck to UK Uncut with their charges. It's the greedy bastards who run the country and urge ordinary people to tighten their belts from the comfort of their mansions who are the people we should really be hating and attacking.

don't listen to the the shit from the trolls above. remember that indymedia has many british police and intelligence members posting comments to try and sow disunity (that's a fact). the british state looks upon uk uncut with great worry and consider them one of the biggest threats in these times (see this video here where the senior members of the state forces talk about the trouble that is to come:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3sc_prqw_s)

it is in our intrests to unite together. a combination of balck bloc and uk uncut tactics would be a nightmare for them. imagine moving to the french style of economic blockades with effective and large black blocs to support. they are shitting it over the possiblility of this and therefore will try their utmost to sow disunity.

well done to the uk uncut. well done to black bloc. this IS only the beginning. the people aren't angry enough yet. the cuts have barely been felt yet. give it a few months and the anger will grow. forget a summer of rage, here comes the Generation of Rage.

But if you favour "a highly visible radical presence within the workers movement of which we are a part, advocating strikes, occupations and civil disobedience", then surely you can see the Black Bloc strategy does not do this. It is a bad tactic, a foolish diversion that at best irritates the many thousands of workers who came to the protest who are already involved in strikes, occupations and civil disobedience - I came up from Southampton, as did groups of striking cleaners from Southampton Hospital and Council Workers who have occupied the council meeting as part of their campaign against the cuts. I do not think the Black Bloc fills these people with enthusiasm. I came to the demonstration a couple of days after manning the picket lines myself, and I have to say the Black Bloc just seem like self-appointed fantasists rather than admirable heroes. You say "There is a valid debate to be had over tactics - which ones further the anti-cuts movement or are counter-productive - and many of us would favour mass direct action over property destruction. " - well ok, lets have the debate. Point one is the Black Bloc is counterprductive. In the middle of the largest demonstration of working people for over a decade, the Black Bloc drew little support beyond it's own ranks. The debate should begin - stop Black Bloc-ing, the strategy is self indulgent and is actually causing problems for , is a block to, wider mass direct action. Fair enough not to be running to the newspapers to condemn this or that, but have the courage of your convictions, if you think (as I do) the Black Bloc is a Bloc-headed tactic, then say so and call for it to end.

"Notice how there are always sufficient numbers of uniformed police around when you smash shit up yet nobody gets arrested?. Notice how the smashing of windows always happens early on in the day? Never see black bloc in use once night kicks in do you? "

Sorry, I know I shouldn't feed the trolls but I couldn't resist correcting a few bits of nonsense.

On Saturday, one reason why the Black Bloc was so effective was because it kept moving; the police were generally struggling to keep up in any significant numbers, so there were NOT "sufficient numbers of uniformed police around" - just small groups, and at the Ritz for instance they DID try to intervene but were pushed back by a combination of huge numbers of us and some thrown stuff.

Secondly, small groups of Black Bloc were active later in the day, and other targets were hit after dark.

So even on purely factual grounds both your points are bollocks.

If Black Bloc argue for a "diversity of tactics" wouldn't that imply another target rather than following Uncut? There were plenty of targets along that street. Why not let Uncut do their thing and Blac Block get along with their day on to another target? Are they implicitly authoritarian? Just like the SWP do they arrogantly believe we are in real need of their rrrrrrrrrrrrrrevolutionary leadership.

The Blac Block tactics needs to be engaged on the question of authoritarianism, imposition and conscription. As a pacifist, arguing about nonviolence has been a waste of time. People have different positions, so don't take it so personally, chances are the way things are going we're all going to end up in the same gulag so we will have to get along then.

I was in a predominantly Blac Bloc squat outside of Brighton for an EDO action...and they were fine people with different views than me. You only get insecure with difference when you are insecure to start with look at EDL, look at the insults on this and other threads substituting for dbate et al.

I've disabled (the government claimed damaged...I thought we actually enhanced the inanimate objects of death and destruction) a B52 Bomber in New York, uranium mining equipment in Australia and a U.S. war plane in Ireland. I don't recall feeling angry to the soldiers,cops or private security I encountered, or feeling violent toward the machinery, on any of those occasions. I do recall having the feeling this is great, joyous and in the best sense of the word "righteous" (right relationship) work that need to be done on these death dealing inanimate objects and sincerely invited securit to join in. Unfortunately they didn't (as cops and soldiers DID the night the Berlin Wall came down and the hardware stores both east and west sold out of hammers!) so it was 13 months jail and deportation in the U.S., 5 months in jail in Darwin and acquitted of $2.5 milion in Ireland.

Does Blac Block (the ones who aren't cops..and we know from Kennedy/Stone some of them are...not that they have a monopoly on that Tariq Ali's Trot group in the '60's, we Catholic Workers & CAAT in the '90's have all been infiltrated at different times in England) realise it has no popular base and can only surf the energy generated by others...usually the moderate marches,this time the NVDA Uncut. This is the same mistake RAF, Weather Underground made in the '60's and '70's they didn't have a popular base. That's not a theological problem for us CW's.

Why did Black Bloc have to follow Uncut to their chosen target and try to steal the thunder, media, organsing work? There's was plenty of space and targets on Satuday for everyone to do their party piece..use it.

I wouldn't say the black bloc jumped on the UK Uncut bandwagon; overall there were at least as many black blocers active on the day as UK Uncutters (and the two weren't mutually exclusive; many people took part in both!). More to the point, the bulk of the black bloc action was earlier on trashing many corporate targets well before the Fortnum + Masons thing happened.

I'd also take issue with the assumption everyone (including many UK Uncut people) is making that UK Uncut actions have to be limited to certain tactics, ie no property damage, no violence. I've taken part in many UK Uncut actions on a local level and no-one's ever consulted me about establishing that as a guideline! UK Uncut does not seem to have any open and democratic meetings or gatherings, so I don't see how anyone has the right to impose that tactical restriction on the whole campaign.

I agree with you about the black bloc's lack of a popular base though - I feel like it is an issue.

I'd find it easier to think about your criticism (however weak it is) if you stopped going on about yourself and what you've done as you increasingly seem to do.

And I can't even be bothered to address your accusations of revolutionary leadership and conscription etc. What a load of crap.

Apologies to anyone rushing to my defense, too slow!

"I'd find it easier to think about your criticism (however weak it is) if you stopped going on about yourself and what you've done as you increasingly seem to do.

And I can't even be bothered to address your accusations of revolutionary leadership and conscription etc. What a load of crap. "

Uh ahh "Anarchist" OR conservative individualist with a hipper dress sense..jury is till out on that one.

This is an improvement on the last response by "Anarchist" on another thread, we have a number of fully constructed sentences to work with and deconstruct here. (warning I'm shit at remembering names and spelling, my genre is gonzo journalism  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzo_%28journalism%29...south Boston Irish roots so I'm on safe cultural ground here... and I speak from my own experience... I really don't have the hours in the day to do anything else or deconstruct the straw men and arguments people post)

A few points
- the internet is a vulgar medium, we would have a better exchange of views face to face, masked up or not!
- I'm a radical christian I know, I'm posting in a hostile environment...and I waste too much time responding to trolls and insults.
- I had no personal harrassment from Blac Blockers on Saturday, there were attempts to censor me advicating for Bradley Manning by a "senior steward"
- I haven't had a lot to do with English people while living in London these past 8 months. I don't dodge them I just don't meet them....not many on the 29 bus. The m-c whites in our Harringay 'hood are plentiful but generally invisible, in these parts, because they tend to travel in cars and on the tube
It's now 9 am and this morning I've talked with a Malaysian, a Scotsman an Irish man, a bunch of Africans, an Aghani with one leg (thanx to ya latest war) and an Englsi woma. I live with a Rad English RC priest he'spresently downstairs praying. So generally your culture remains a mystery to me!
- I do know the English are pretty reserved, they generally find Aussies and Yanks loud, obnoxious and self publcists (but hey mate if ya pushing a gig or a book or a cause and ya ain't got an agent...it's all self activity and self publcitiy! ain't it?).
- I knpw the English are generally reserved, and the Irish sceptical, by nature. Anglos and Celts in the U.S.A. have had this reserve and scepticism kicked out of them (thanx be to God!) by the input of the more demonstrative Aro and Latino input into their culture. That's why the place rocks!
- I know the anti- Catholic and anti-Irish prejudices run deep in English society and run into the English anarchist movement.
- I come form a family of Irish Republicans so I know I have prejudices that come out when I'm stressed, I'm trying to deal with that. I am stressed, angry, bamboozled about the present lack of solidarity for Assange and Manning. When I have been before the courts or banged up I have received a lot of solid support form my CW movement (which has a long history of imprisonment). I know, from personal experience again, the significance of the most minimal acts of solidarity for the prisoner and the resister. No solidarity, no sustained resistance.
- I've been on the @ scene and left for 30 years and I'm just too old to tolerate much shit and prejudice or to apoligise fo rmyself/existence
- I do know this is a deflated time for the anti-war movement (more like remnant) and that Julian Assange and Bradley Manning are facing execution, a life time in jail or being killed in jail....AND NO ONE SEEMS TO GIVE A FUCK IN THIS COUNTRY!
- I know the Guardian is working hard to service the Amerikkkan agenda to deliver Assange...playing wedge politics romanticisng Manning, demonising Assange...this was reflected by a number of people on Saturday's march. the Guardian have done a good job in isolating Assange, they are well placed an resourced to carry this out.
- I have spent a couple of years in jail where (like many others) I have humiliated, bashed, sexually assaulted etc etc...so I have a lot of rage I'm trying to channel productively.
- I know people on this site prefer to relate anpnymously for good reason and find it strange that I post under my own name and life share. But I'm from an Irish story telling tradition..that's what I'm culturally comfortable with.
- This is a desperate time for ammning and Assange - not to mention the folks of Iraq, Aghanistan and Libya.
- I've chosen to stay in London and be hyperactive until the Brits hand over Assange to the Yanks. so ya gonna have to put up with me until that happens....get some advice of Irish anarchs on how they tolerated me for 7 years.

The Black Bloc discussion need to be happening,,,on issues of conscription and violence (what are the limits...the Provos had rules of engagement based on general Catholic Just War Theory and still managed to kill a lot of innocent people with limited technology and capacity...what road is Black Bloc going down. Are you really prepared to do what you have to do to go down tha road as this all esclates?
Read (maybe you already have)
- Bommi Baumann (active in Germany, lifted in Brixton) "How it All Began" or "Terror Love"
- "You Can't Blow Up a Social Reationship"
- Refelctions of the Vancouver 5
View the fine doc on the Weather Underground...who developed a property damage postion after the disaster in NYC that killed their comrades who were planning a slaughter at a miitaty dance during the Vietnam War.

"Nothing new under the sun" Shakesepere. What you are doing, and what we are doing, has all been done before........ study it, learn from it- mistakes and what works. Not to is sheer arrogance of the latest generation....you and I won't be here for long...get it right whatever your into....train your people for interogation and jail...we don't need any more casualties (CW have had their own).
Don't isolate you form any potential support.

its the God delusion matter. Its also bullshit to say that the BB hijacked uncut actions, if you observed the going ons of that day in any way you would see that the BB were active all over the place. Thanks Ciaron for the summary of your life AGAIN, you are fucking brilliant, if I was a god botherer I would have a word with your imaginery friend and get you a sainthood.....

Jesus wept...it's "Aunty Christ" and s/he's back....unless s/he's"Anarchist" and was here all along?
I thought I put ya back in ya box a few threads ago, you've licked ya wounds and fronted up anonymouosly, courageous stuff. Beating the old sectarian drum...there's big fdrum waiting for you at Orange Lodge in Belfast for ya.

Good onya AC ya strung a few sentences together here, free of logic, hope it hasn't exhausted ya? Hopefully ya resilience expressed on these threads is occasionally directed at the wamaking state...but I doubt it.

Still no response by you or anyone
- on the abandoment of Manning
- abandonment of Assange
....just rationalisations why you won't get off ya arse and will abandon those arrested on Saturday.

As argued previously, by others on this thread, the reason why you (if you were there at all?) weren't arrested and taken off the streets is that the cops and media find you useful ON THE DAY.

If ya were there, keep looking over ya shoulder mate...check out Arterial Block Melbourne ...plucked out of supermarkets, off planes from NZ to UK at a Sydney stop over by OZ cops.
months after their actions. Solidarity fir those banged up, minimal.

Ya dealing with the Brits here, they invented cricket (their willing to play the long game) and they invented botany (were prepared to go out and list every plant in the world), beware there's a stong trainspotting streak in the culture at play here. Can't imagine any other culture producing cops willing to pour over so much CCTV

you Ciaron with your pathetic attempt at promoting the Manning case, a full size postcard, wow what creativity and work went into that. Then again I reckon you are using the Manning situation to promote your imaginary mate and give you an opportunity to talk about YOURSELF. Pretty sad dude... You know its true don't you buddy!

OK as much as I hAte to walk away from bullies, I'll end my contribution to this thread..and I think I have made contributions to the issues at hand unlike those who have slandered me and claim that efficacy and morality of their tactic is self evident and needs know justification or argument. They merely make a fetish of direct action and forget that fascists share a romance with direct action.

I'd like to end with a contribution from an agnostic Marxist friend who has no fear or disrespect of Catholic Workers, has little fear of anything. This youtube was taken after he was sacked from his 30+ year teaching job as a Media lecturer for objecting to a PhD doc entitled "Laughing at the Disabled". He was banned from campus, we (anarchists, Catholic Workers, Trits, christians Muslims, liberal and social democrats) were on campus in solidarity as he spoke from the neighboring Brisane botanic gardens.....
YOUTUBE (1 min 58 secs)
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RycmPrmgBeM
..he doesn't fear or diss Muslime neither
YOUTUBE (9 mins 31 secs) - good attack on BBC, Guardian and OZ SBS
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk-jmti_F4U

Maybe tolerance will come with ageing....Gary always admonishes me "never discourage the young", I need to take his advice. He's a great teacher, although te state won't let him teach. Go figure?

GARY'S REFLECTIONS ON BLAC BLOCK PHENOMENON...taken from Critical Marxist list..

It is this notion of the need for a radical break which brings me to my discussion of the Black Block phenomenon. Frankly I did not like Phelps' article which Lou posted. I do not give a stuff that he is a leading scholar. He penned nonsense about the UK protests. But there is a definite problem with the Black Block phenomenon that has however, contra Phelps, nothing to do with headlines in the Murdoch Press. My objection to the BB is that they mirror the Trade Union Bureaucracy. Both parties give the wrong impression of what is necessary to counter the current capitalist offensive. The Bureaucracy thinks that having half a million people in the street will be enough. It will not, as the fate of the Iraq protests made all too clear.

But the Black Block in their turn seem to think that setting banks on fire is enough. It is not and as in Athens, where a worker was burned to death, it can be worse than not enough. What threatens the system is the spectre not of destruction but of a political and moral alternative. Destruction and capitalism are long term bed fellows. The real threat would be the taking over or the running of the bank by the people who work there as delegated representatives of the people who are the customers. Our actions should at least hint at the possibility of such an alternative. Anything else risks being an exercise in self-indulgence.

My final word is to attempt to make a distinction here between militant vanguard action and the nihilistic actions of the Black Block. All kinds of militancy will be condemned by those who favour the status quo. But does militancy alienate the working class as the critics allege? Well we actually have a good deal of evidence it does not. When militant actions are guided by a clear moral purpose the working class when given the opportunity to understand will support them despite anything the media will say. That is the message of the victories of the Catholic Worker Plowshare activists such as Ciaron O' Reilly and the action recently taken in Derry City by Eamonn McCann and his comrades.
comradely
Gary