Skip Nav | Home | Mobile | Editorial Guidelines | Mission Statement | About Us | Contact | Help | Security | Support Us

World

Netcu Watch // A common sense guide to dealing with Grasses and Infiltrators

Netcu Watch | 20.08.2008 09:47 | SOCPA | Animal Liberation | Climate Chaos | Repression | World

Recently comments on various articles have accused activists of being grasses without any evidence whatsoever. This has the potential to alienate people from one another, create false rumours and create an atmosphere where new people are treated with suspicion.

1. To all those posting paranoid crap on Indymedia STOP PANICKING and THINK. Calling someone a grass just because they have not been charged with an offence is stupid beyond belief. Do you really think that a grass would not be prosecuted if a charge, conviction even prison sentence enables a cover to be maintained? If a grass is offered a large amount of money or other inducement do you seriously think s/he will be bothered by being charged? Often people are not charged because the “victim” does not want to pursue the complaint, lack of funds, because the police want to charge the activist for something far more serious “enough rope to hang “, or just maybe they want other activists to be distrustful of that individual. If you think someone is a grass/informer or infiltrator, talk with someone you trust (get support), substantiate your claim 100 per cent and if practicable confront your suspect prior to making accusations publicly. A good way might be to give the suspected informer exclusive, juicy but incorrect information on a few occasions and see if the police rise to the bait. All in all you need actual proof if you expect anything but derision.

2. If those sorting out a demonstration decide to have that demonstration outside HLS on a Monday for a change instead of the usual Friday there are a whole range of possibilities other than it being a police trap, for example that being when people could actually attend!

3. If those posting paranoid crap are in fact police officers (which is a good possibility) they have a very good reason for doing so. Divide and rule. A movement where every new comer is treated with suspicion, where individuals are branded as “grasses” because they are not arrested or charged, or because they make small talk with the police (nice day isn’t it? How many donuts have YOU had? My what a big truncheon you’ve got!) etc ceases to be a movement VERY quickly. We have heard that the FBI used this tactic against the Black Panthers, spread misinformation and got severe divisions. Maybe someone knows more about this?

4. Three activists who really trust one another decide to liberate some hamsters. They succeed and this is posted anonymously on activist media. No-one should know who they are and none of them should tell anyone else unless of course they are convicted or they all decide to go public e.g an “open” liberation. If arrested every activist unless acting alone should not answer questions as they will jeopardise co-defendants. If you are a distrustful soul do things alone and keep your paranoia to yourself! Knowledge should be on a need to know basis if of a sensitive nature. Bear in mind if the police think it is serious enough they can and probably will arrest people long after the alleged offence, there is not a time limit on “serious” offences.

5. Having said all this of course the police and big companies will be doing their utmost to infiltrate. Personality clashes between activists, financial hardship and threats as well as incentives to talk for example money all have the potential to turn some individuals into grasses or informers. EVERYONE needs to be aware of this. Making people included in decision making, helping one another out, creating a strong activist community where those suffering persecution from the state or in the personal realm are supported by other activists is one way to minimise this risk. Creating an open culture whereby activists can voice concerns to one another is another. Bear in mind how nasty the police can be. Activists with children have even been threatened with having their children being taken into care. We can all be vulnerable, they know this and will use any lever. Every activist needs to know that they can turn to others for support.

6. Many of us have been approached by the police at home and/or on the phone by the police and asked to be informers and we have declined most politely and posted this information on Indymedia. Activists might find that the police try and appeal to their sense of “decency” for example to help catch “terrorists”, or they might be threatened, or offered money, goods or a favour e.g drop charges, a good word in court. Be aware of the fact that the police lie and exaggerate. We would urge everyone in this position to let as many other activists know as possible or at least to get support from those closest to them. It is important for activists to know what has been asked, what offers made and any threats made. It might be the case for example that another activist could be alerted to the fact that the police are interested in him/her. Be aware that some activists may prefer not to tell others that they have been approached as is their right. How do the police find out addresses and phone numbers…well… they are the police and have access to all sorts of databases. NB For anyone playing the police along giving them false information, be careful, get at least one person to support you/know where you are and good luck.

7. If an activist does something really horrendous for example rape none of this applies. Reporting something to the police either as a victim or as a third party if violently abusive to a living being should not render someone a “grass”. This could do with some really serious discussion between activists comments welcome. Helping the police look for a missing child or as some of us did during the floods directing traffic away from a bridge about to collapse are more about assisting the community and basic decency and times during which the hatchet is buried but close by and not too deep( by the police anyway).

8. Sometimes activists and police find themselves working together for example if an activist is assaulted by another police officer for instance. A word of warning the police may arrest a fellow officer, they will go through the motions but they will usually not be overenthusiastic. Get a good lawyer on board and when you are a witness for the prosecution be aware that they will try and get information from you regarding actions and other activists be careful do not let your guard down especially just after being attacked. If giving a statement it might be worth having a lawyer present. Professional standards have been useful in quite a few situations but they are still police officers even if they are shunned in the canteen. The Independent police Complaints Commission can also be very good but they are really not “independent” at all.

9. It is probably ill advised to go out for a coffee or even worse an alcoholic drink with the police unless you really know what you are doing which is really unlikely in 99.9 per cent of cases. Just say “no thanks” because they will be trying to get information out of you to use against you and others. It is certainly not unknown for police officers to follow activists into cafes/ pubs and sit alongside activists they love us so much.

To conclude…be aware that security is a serious issue but do not make false or unfounded allegations which undermine other activists and threaten various movements. Support others and expect to be supported . You can be civil to the police and even help them if they are doing something decent such as rescuing a cat from a tree but never forget that they are your enemy and as an organisation (however nice individuals may appear, and the “nice” veneer slips quickly if they don’t get what they want) their remit is to protect big business and to stop us campaigning against vivisection, global warming, anything in fact that threatens profit. They are utterly ruthless and will go to almost any lengths although we are far luckier than other activists in other parts of the world who face routine torture and death.

If you are worried you have a grass or infiltrator in your group we recommend also reading section 3 of the Activist Security handbook (Word Doc).

 http://www.activistsecurity.org/booklet-2.6.doc

Netcu Watch
- e-mail: warn at rise up dot net
- Homepage: http://netcu.wordpress.com

Comments

Hide the following 11 comments

Grass?

20.08.2008 12:06

I haven't seen any serious posts about grasses. I have seen a lot of concern about the safety of activists on a daylight direct action in front of hundreds of coppers. Strangely many of these valid concerns are being hidden. If you want to see the hidden posts just add "?c=all" to the end of the post URL (without the speach marks).

Valid concerns about activist safety should not be dismissed as Police trying to divide and rule.

Grassfinder General


Informants and the like..

20.08.2008 13:02

We've heard a lot recently about people being offered to become informants... however lets not forget that there many be stories we haven't heard because the people asked may have actually accepted the offer. I have to say though, excercise caution and be wary, but undercover cops are pretty damn obvious. Informants however would not be as they would already be involved... so just keep your mouths shut people, unless your comrades are 100% sound. If people are boasting about naughty things anyway, chances are they've done fuck all - anyone who knows anything knows that for everyone's sake if they are involved in anything beyond peaceful protest should keep it to themselves.

Pc B


"Strangely many of these valid concerns are being hidden"

20.08.2008 13:08

Really? I thought that bustcards were going to be available at the event, covers all surely.

Are we ment to highlight every concern with leafleting, using a megaphone, or otherwise, which is now illegal under Section 145 of the Serious Organised Crime and Policing Act? Now that would be a waste of space...not to mention extremely repressive to the average activist looking to make change.

Everyone knows there are no organisers, what's the risk? Police will be there? When have they not been? Think.

PC Bacon


Actually...

20.08.2008 13:20

Calling groups and individuals police informants has happened a large amount recently I wont add links for obvious reasons.

Although most people have the common sense to see through it the posts are becoming more and more frequent and saying members of campaign groups are police / informers / infiltrators because a demo time is changed last minute does nothing but alienate new activists from their respective movement.

Disinformation can be incredibly detrimental for any movement even more so in some cases than actually having an informer in your group. It is worth remembering that before you post information accusing people / campaign groups of this that and the other.

Netcu Watch
mail e-mail: warn at riseup dot net
- Homepage: http://netcu.wordpress.com


It's pretty standard counter intelligence work.

20.08.2008 22:52

Start a rumour that there's an informant in a group and just sit back and watch as the group tears itself to shreds through paranoia, in fighting and witch-hunts.

Of course if you really do have an informer in your group and they doin't know that you know then you can really have some fun.

S


addendum

21.08.2008 01:52

you forgot to add the fact that if the old bill are following you and trying to glean information, at such places as cafes or whereever, then you should obviously spin them a right old yarn, send 'em on a wild goosechase, explore your potential as an actor and turn the act of disinformation into a weapon against them for once.

anarchist


Funny that, how agents corrupt so easily

21.08.2008 06:07

Indymedia admins are proven police informers and yet IM admins hide that fact repeatedly.


This is a list of the infiltrated groups I have personal experience of:

IM SCotland
Trident Ploughshares
Justice Not Vengance
The Unity Centre

and presumably IM UK judging from the admins 'see no evil' approach to censorship and oppresssion.

I think it is a safe bet that since these groups are infiltrated, and effectively the first line of the police state, that every group in the UK that has more than 20 members has at least one paid infiltrator.

That is probably inevitable. There are strategies that I've outlined to aboid this, but they are hidden here. Big surprise.

Don't join a group of strangers if you wish to be effective, and don't believe the news you read here is any less polluted than the mainstream.

Now does someone want to challenge me for evidence or does someone want to bruah this under the carpet again ?



crit


Hang on!!!

21.08.2008 08:28

Hang on a minute! So we have a group run by WARN telling people not to worry that there is suggestion of police involvement in WARN! Now that is funny. I'd suggest people think for themselves. Work alone or in small affinity groups. People only share information with other affinity groups if necessary, keep to first names with other groups and don't share anything that could give your full identity away.

Don't be too paranoid that we are ineffective but at the same time don't give too much away when it's not needed. Be wary, but don't do nothing! If people are worried about the carnival being infiltrated thn why don't they do other actions around the same time somewhere else that will help animals but have no involvement in this group.

Funny Side


Couldnt agree more!

21.08.2008 14:05

In response to "Funny Side" we couldn't agree more, we are by no means trying to tell people not to be concerned about infiltrators or grasses more that spreading rumours can be very detrimental to the AR movement. The fact remains WARN is not actually a group it is a network of groups from the West of England and Wales with a website that is updated by a select few. We know we are heavily watched by police for this reason we agree entirely that you should keep your actions to your own affinity groups. In response to the Carnival Against Vivisection if there are concerns of police involvement plan your own actions out of the area, the whole point of having no organisers is that there is no set plan of action or directions for the day.

That said if anyone would like to talk with WARN or NETCU WATCH we can be contacted on 0845 337 2969 rather than posting unsubstantiated rumours on the net maybe people could give us the courtesy of asking us questions directly?

Thanks

Chris Dowdeswell

WARN
mail e-mail: warn at riseup dot net
- Homepage: http://westernanimalrights.wordpress.com


To WARN

21.08.2008 19:05

If people really do have evidence to believe that there is a mole within WARN the last thing they should do is ring up WARN. That would give the police a nice way to track activists with evidence of a mole!.

NoScumZone


Ok...?

21.08.2008 22:35

We aren't saying ring us with information we are saying ring us if you have any questions?

We are kind of laughing at this WARN mole idea at the moment, if you knew how few of us it takes to run the website and network it is quite bizarre... but anyway like we say, if people want to avoid us for fear of us somehow gathering information for the police and state that's cool.

I wouldn't trust anyone 100% from outside our close knit group so I can see your concerns...

As it stands the cops probably think we know personally ALF activists from the West and Wales which is quite hilarious. We actually take most of our information from Bite Back and IMCUK and receive the occasional anonymous email report.

All the best,

Chris

WARN
mail e-mail: warn at riseup dot net
- Homepage: http://westernanimalrights.wordpress.com


Publish

Publish your news

Do you need help with publishing?

/regional publish include --> /regional search include -->

World Topics

Afghanistan
Analysis
Animal Liberation
Anti-Nuclear
Anti-militarism
Anti-racism
Bio-technology
Climate Chaos
Culture
Ecology
Education
Energy Crisis
Fracking
Free Spaces
Gender
Globalisation
Health
History
Indymedia
Iraq
Migration
Ocean Defence
Other Press
Palestine
Policing
Public sector cuts
Repression
Social Struggles
Technology
Terror War
Workers' Movements
Zapatista

Kollektives

Birmingham
Cambridge
Liverpool
London
Oxford
Sheffield
South Coast
Wales
World

Other UK IMCs
Bristol/South West
London
Northern Indymedia
Scotland

Server Appeal Radio Page Video Page Indymedia Cinema Offline Newsheet

secure Encrypted Page

You are viewing this page using an encrypted connection. If you bookmark this page or send its address in an email you might want to use the un-encrypted address of this page.

If you recieved a warning about an untrusted root certificate please install the CAcert root certificate, for more information see the security page.

IMCs


www.indymedia.org

Projects
print
radio
satellite tv
video

Africa

Europe
antwerpen
armenia
athens
austria
barcelona
belarus
belgium
belgrade
brussels
bulgaria
calabria
croatia
cyprus
emilia-romagna
estrecho / madiaq
galiza
germany
grenoble
hungary
ireland
istanbul
italy
la plana
liege
liguria
lille
linksunten
lombardia
madrid
malta
marseille
nantes
napoli
netherlands
northern england
nottingham imc
paris/île-de-france
patras
piemonte
poland
portugal
roma
romania
russia
sardegna
scotland
sverige
switzerland
torun
toscana
ukraine
united kingdom
valencia

Latin America
argentina
bolivia
chiapas
chile
chile sur
cmi brasil
cmi sucre
colombia
ecuador
mexico
peru
puerto rico
qollasuyu
rosario
santiago
tijuana
uruguay
valparaiso
venezuela

Oceania
aotearoa
brisbane
burma
darwin
jakarta
manila
melbourne
perth
qc
sydney

South Asia
india


United States
arizona
arkansas
asheville
atlanta
Austin
binghamton
boston
buffalo
chicago
cleveland
colorado
columbus
dc
hawaii
houston
hudson mohawk
kansas city
la
madison
maine
miami
michigan
milwaukee
minneapolis/st. paul
new hampshire
new jersey
new mexico
new orleans
north carolina
north texas
nyc
oklahoma
philadelphia
pittsburgh
portland
richmond
rochester
rogue valley
saint louis
san diego
san francisco
san francisco bay area
santa barbara
santa cruz, ca
sarasota
seattle
tampa bay
united states
urbana-champaign
vermont
western mass
worcester

West Asia
Armenia
Beirut
Israel
Palestine

Topics
biotech

Process
fbi/legal updates
mailing lists
process & imc docs
tech