Skip to content or view mobile version

Home | Mobile | Editorial | Mission | Privacy | About | Contact | Help | Security | Support

A network of individuals, independent and alternative media activists and organisations, offering grassroots, non-corporate, non-commercial coverage of important social and political issues.

Hidden Article

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Should Indymedia protect army recruiters?

Paul Treanor | 28.05.2003 11:43

Turkish unemployed in Netherlands recruited for Turkish army, under threat of loss of benefit. Indymedia Netherlands deleted name of recruiter, at request of the authorities.

The main relevance of this, for UK Indymedia, is the Indymedia policy. Should Indymedia work with the authorities, to protect the identity of army recruiters?

The background is a project to force young unemployed in Amsterdam, with Turkish parents, into the Dutch and Turkish armies. Since conscription was abolished in the Netherlands, the army is permanently under strength.

The project is run by an Amsterdam workfare agency, NV Werk. This agency is nominally privatised, but still 100% owned by the city council. Its task is essentially to bully the unemployed into accepting the jobs no-one wants, like in slaughterhouses. The army project is specifically targeted at the Turkish minority, with Turkish-language folders. The soldiers sign up for service in the Dutch army, but most also serve in the Turkish Army, for at least a month. All male children of Turkish parents are liable to Turkish military service, no matter where they are born and live.

Some of the recruiting is done informally, in Turkish clubs and coffeehouses, but some is forced recruitment of claimants. The recruiter at NV Werk, Dino Sinanovic, is given the Social Security files of Turkish claimants. He is empowered to call them in for an interview, send them to the army for assessment, or offer them military service directly. Refusal means loss of benefit. Sinanovic works under contract for Colonel Schallenberg, the chief recruiter for the Dutch army.

The double military service arrangement existed already, but the recruitment project was set up in the run-up to the Iraq war. Perhaps the aim was to set up a unit of Dutch-trained soldiers, to fight in Turkish uniform in northern Iraq. That way, the Dutch government could satisfy the US demands for troops, while avoiding direct participation in the war. As it turned out, the war in Iraq was short, and the expected Turkish invasion of northern Iraq did not materialise. Now Dutch troops will be probably go to southern Iraq under their own flag, as part of the occupation force.

Before the war started, I posted the story about Sinanovic on Indymedia Netherlands. Some time later, a lawyer for NV Werk, Arendse, contacted Indymedia. She asked them to remove the name of Dino Sinanovic, because his personal safety was threatened. Indymedia complied with the request, without explaining why, without saying it was a request from the authorities.

I later found out why Indymedia NL had deleted the name, and posted a short message about Arendse's request. At first the Indymedia editors claimed that they had acted entirely on their own initiative. Later they simply deleted the whole post. So did Indymedia Belgium. However, a journalist writing on Indymedia policy later contacted Arendse, and she confirmed that she had asked for the deletion.

Now, there is no doubt that Sinanovic is in danger of being shot. That's not because of my Indymedia post, but because he is recruiting soldiers to kill and torture Kurds. And unlike Col. Schallenberg, he is doing that from an unprotected office, in the middle of an area with many Turkish and Kurdish immigrants, and he is doing it publicly and openly. The names of Sinanovic and his assistant Yakup Karahan are printed in the information folders, with office address, e-mail, and telephone numbers. So there is no question of "disclosing" his name via Indymedia, his name is already publicly available.

The issue for all Indymedia sites is this: how many more deals are done with lawyers, behind the scenes, to delete material? How often do authorities contact Indymedia editors with this kind of request? Why don't Indymedia editors disclose such contacts?

And the ethical issue in this case is: why protect someone like Dino Sinanovic? Someone who coerces the unemployed, into military service in the Turkish army.... His motives might be political, he comes from ex-Yugoslavia, Sinanovic is a Bosnian name, and perhaps he is fanatically grateful for the western intervention there. But if true, that is no excuse for what he is doing. He deserves criticism, and Indymedia should not obstruct that criticism.

Paul Treanor

Comments

Hide the following 10 comments

Tough one...

28.05.2003 12:05

No, they shouldn't actively seek to protect army recruiters and conscriptors, but if you are under pressure from the authorities, it's better than being shut down and there being no Indymedia at all. They could always appeal, of course.

Thomas J


question of priorities

28.05.2003 13:35

it's a question of priorities. If an indymedia collective has the strength to embark on a legal battle, and the determination to take a risk of being closed down, that's good. As far as I remember, indy netherlands did in the past refuse to comply with official demands to take off a link. In the end, I think they had to pay a fine. I don't know what the situation in indy netherlands is, how many people, how did they manage to find the money, how much stress, but I wouldn't blame them for being careful now.

transmitter


Isn't there a workaround for this crap?

28.05.2003 16:45

We have a large international network of websites at our disposal here. If indymedia nl is ever under serious attack by the government, then wouldn't it be possible to point the netherlands indymedia URL at a server in Belgium or the US or South Africa, out of reach of the Dutch filth? And in return, the dutch indymedia people could physically host sites that are being attacked by other governments.

It's perhaps an extreme solution for the particular problem above, but it'll be worth bearing in mind for the future...

Aim Here


Tell you what Paul

28.05.2003 17:55

Why don't you offer to raise the money for teh legal case - or even help raise money for their last legal battle - once you offer that maybe i will listen to your moaning about how unradical others are - it is not as if they are doing any great mistake only that they decided that it wasn't worth the fine...

I have seen many a mail from you on the UK site - ranting against the Dutch site - so i have to take this with a pinch of salt!

matilda


Blame the editors, yes

28.05.2003 19:51

I do blame the editors for not being 'radical' enough. If they start deleting material at the request of the authoriites, the authorities will simply demand more deletions. In the end they will be running the site.

I know, all media censors. But it's a question of whether you want to have an alternative to the established media. That implies you use different criteria. If you only publish safe material, which is in the newspapers anyway, why bother?

pt


Mirror Sites?

29.05.2003 04:07

Couldn't they try posting mirror sites, so if the government shuts them down, they can still operate through them, then bring the main one back up when things cool off.

InternationalObserver


Question of priorities again

10.06.2003 19:30

pt - it's a question of priorities for you, too. Constructive Criticism is important, but only brings the movements forward when combined with practical support.
You want a more radical website? Then work on it. Someone suggested fundraising. And there are many other, more humble tasks. If you don't like racist postings on newswires, notify the appropriate lists about the offending urls.
Radicality has to do with very boring, very tiresome tasks, writing exciting analysis is only a small part of it.

transmitter


Check out the truth yourself

11.06.2003 06:51

This is bullshit. I work there and I came on my own. Check it out yourself on their website.

Dutch/Turkish soldier
- Homepage: http://www.kleurintwerk.nl/landmacht


Paul Treanor is just a liar

11.06.2003 14:08

Paul Treanor is just a liar
Paul Treanor is just a liar

The Indymedia Netherlands editorial team ALWAYS removes fully published names of non-public persons to protect their privacy!

Also in this particular case it was not at all done on request by the authorities.
This is just pure speculation of Paul Treanor.

The fact that organisation from the person who's name was fully published by Treanor also requested to remove the names from Treanors postings is irrelevant.

Paul Treanor is actually also trying to take Indymedia Netherlands to court for various silly reasons.
Aren't there real important things to spend time and money on one would think...
Treanor refuses to communicate with the Indymedia NL editorial team at the places that are destined for this.
In cyberspace terms this could be called 'trolling'...

All this happens after even Indymedia Netherlands volunteers have had personal death treaths from extreem-rightists for leaving controversial articles by Paul Treanor online at www.indymedia.nl
For example he wrote a public request for the death-penalty for right-wing populist politician Pim Fortuyn, a few months before Fortuyn actually was assasinated...

If you have questions about all this:
You can reach the Indymedia NL editorial team on this public mailing list
 http://freeteam.nl/mailman/listinfo/imc-nl

Or in irc chat channel #NL on IRC.INDYMEDIA.ORG http//irc.indymedia.org

M02 (indymedia NL volunteer)
mail e-mail: info@indymedia.nl
- Homepage: http://www.indymedia.nl


I wouldn't worry for paul, netherlands imc

11.06.2003 20:24

As has been pointed here, if he complains for lack of radicalism in your site he should work on it rather than moan about it.

There is a choice to make over radicality and continuity - more radical, less likely to last around.

The decision belongs to the collective and any one who wants to actively support it. No one has the right to slagg off publicly a group like this. If he knows the group, he should work with you. If he doesn't, he should shut up.

From my own collective, our full support to you, imc nl, and it's only because his posting has had so many comments, otherwise it would have been hidden.

One of imc-uk (london)

imc-uk


Upcoming Coverage
View and post events
Upcoming Events UK
24th October, London: 2015 London Anarchist Bookfair
2nd - 8th November: Wrexham, Wales, UK & Everywhere: Week of Action Against the North Wales Prison & the Prison Industrial Complex. Cymraeg: Wythnos o Weithredu yn Erbyn Carchar Gogledd Cymru

Ongoing UK
Every Tuesday 6pm-8pm, Yorkshire: Demo/vigil at NSA/NRO Menwith Hill US Spy Base More info: CAAB.

Every Tuesday, UK & worldwide: Counter Terror Tuesdays. Call the US Embassy nearest to you to protest Obama's Terror Tuesdays. More info here

Every day, London: Vigil for Julian Assange outside Ecuadorian Embassy

Parliament Sq Protest: see topic page
Ongoing Global
Rossport, Ireland: see topic page
Israel-Palestine: Israel Indymedia | Palestine Indymedia
Oaxaca: Chiapas Indymedia
Regions
All Regions
Birmingham
Cambridge
Liverpool
London
Oxford
Sheffield
South Coast
Wales
World
Other Local IMCs
Bristol/South West
Nottingham
Scotland
Social Media
You can follow @ukindymedia on indy.im and Twitter. We are working on a Twitter policy. We do not use Facebook, and advise you not to either.
Support Us
We need help paying the bills for hosting this site, please consider supporting us financially.
Other Media Projects
Schnews
Dissident Island Radio
Corporate Watch
Media Lens
VisionOnTV
Earth First! Action Update
Earth First! Action Reports
Topics
All Topics
Afghanistan
Analysis
Animal Liberation
Anti-Nuclear
Anti-militarism
Anti-racism
Bio-technology
Climate Chaos
Culture
Ecology
Education
Energy Crisis
Fracking
Free Spaces
Gender
Globalisation
Health
History
Indymedia
Iraq
Migration
Ocean Defence
Other Press
Palestine
Policing
Public sector cuts
Repression
Social Struggles
Technology
Terror War
Workers' Movements
Zapatista
Major Reports
NATO 2014
G8 2013
Workfare
2011 Census Resistance
Occupy Everywhere
August Riots
Dale Farm
J30 Strike
Flotilla to Gaza
Mayday 2010
Tar Sands
G20 London Summit
University Occupations for Gaza
Guantanamo
Indymedia Server Seizure
COP15 Climate Summit 2009
Carmel Agrexco
G8 Japan 2008
SHAC
Stop Sequani
Stop RWB
Climate Camp 2008
Oaxaca Uprising
Rossport Solidarity
Smash EDO
SOCPA
Past Major Reports
Encrypted Page
You are viewing this page using an encrypted connection. If you bookmark this page or send its address in an email you might want to use the un-encrypted address of this page.
If you recieved a warning about an untrusted root certificate please install the CAcert root certificate, for more information see the security page.

Global IMC Network


www.indymedia.org

Projects
print
radio
satellite tv
video

Africa

Europe
antwerpen
armenia
athens
austria
barcelona
belarus
belgium
belgrade
brussels
bulgaria
calabria
croatia
cyprus
emilia-romagna
estrecho / madiaq
galiza
germany
grenoble
hungary
ireland
istanbul
italy
la plana
liege
liguria
lille
linksunten
lombardia
madrid
malta
marseille
nantes
napoli
netherlands
northern england
nottingham imc
paris/île-de-france
patras
piemonte
poland
portugal
roma
romania
russia
sardegna
scotland
sverige
switzerland
torun
toscana
ukraine
united kingdom
valencia

Latin America
argentina
bolivia
chiapas
chile
chile sur
cmi brasil
cmi sucre
colombia
ecuador
mexico
peru
puerto rico
qollasuyu
rosario
santiago
tijuana
uruguay
valparaiso
venezuela

Oceania
aotearoa
brisbane
burma
darwin
jakarta
manila
melbourne
perth
qc
sydney

South Asia
india


United States
arizona
arkansas
asheville
atlanta
Austin
binghamton
boston
buffalo
chicago
cleveland
colorado
columbus
dc
hawaii
houston
hudson mohawk
kansas city
la
madison
maine
miami
michigan
milwaukee
minneapolis/st. paul
new hampshire
new jersey
new mexico
new orleans
north carolina
north texas
nyc
oklahoma
philadelphia
pittsburgh
portland
richmond
rochester
rogue valley
saint louis
san diego
san francisco
san francisco bay area
santa barbara
santa cruz, ca
sarasota
seattle
tampa bay
united states
urbana-champaign
vermont
western mass
worcester

West Asia
Armenia
Beirut
Israel
Palestine

Topics
biotech

Process
fbi/legal updates
mailing lists
process & imc docs
tech