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Capitalism Loves Violent Revolution

David Arthur Johnston | 07.12.2005 17:29 | Repression

keeping peace

Capitalism Loves Violent Revolution

-

Had a talk with a fellow today saying that however much we want to avoid a violent response to the innate fascism of capitalism we may not be able to. I suggested to him that he was only giving voice to his own fear of facing his personal responsibility. A 'personal responsibility' is as individual as any ego, though many egos share similar delusions (A.K.A. the 'from birth' lies we are taught- that democracy is good- that voting gives control- that food comes from the market- that money is only a neutral tool- that the 'now' is come to through 'choices' and not through an inevitable flow of a singular event that could be described as 'all motion').

Instead many find that they would rather rely on the tactics taught to us by the exact world we would oppose. Instead of taking the moral responsibility to stop paying taxes we would organize mass violent demonstrations that would see Grand Freemason Temples and police stations themselves under siege... the adage is true- live violently, die violently.

The peaceful suggestion to this very imagined scenario comes simply- if one would risk everything to counter a damning and torturous mentality why not risk everything by living our lives while calmly disregarding the system that is repressing the people. Stop paying taxes. Don't be afraid of getting arrested again and again and again (even until you die) in not giving authority to the government and all agents and agencies under the thing that calls itself the 'crown'.

When we decry the brutality of the police remember that you may be decrying yourself, if you are the one paying their salary--- it IS that simple.

Collect and sow the seeds of good food. Practice patience so as to be able to face the unknown. Support the notion of tent-city because it is these people who have felt the brunt of the spite of capitalism. Consider that we help maintain this world because we have been maliciously taught to specifically be afraid of anarchy; consider that ‘anarchy’ may come to be a heart-achingly beautiful word. The world of trust is real, as real as community.

in peace,

David Arthur Johnston

Victoria, BC, Canada

 Hatrackman@Yahoo.com

Home page-  http://www.angelfire.com/apes/hatrackman

Journal of the Occupation of St. Ann's Academy (Victoria, BC, Canada)-  http://www.angelfire.com/apes/hatrackman/welcome.htm

Interactive Documentary on the 'Right to Sleep'-  http://www.therighttosleep.com and  http://www.loveandfearlessness.com


David Arthur Johnston

Comments

Hide the following 12 comments

For violence, against revolution

07.12.2005 19:27

I agree that violent revolution is immoral, because it implies putting new leaders in charge, and all leaders go bad. Withholding your taxes or refusing to work is admirable until you can free yourself more effectively, either by leaving your state or ending your state.

A violent response is often the only rational and moral response to violence. If you see someone being raped it makes sense to intervene violently. If someone has just murdered your neighbour and is intent on murdering more people then a violent response is moral imo.

And if someone is ordering the napalming civilians and carpet-bombing residential areas then it seems prissy, self-absorbed and immoral not to respond in kind. Certainly it is sick to criticise those defending their lives unless you are doing all in your power to stop that initial violence - and that means more than withholding taxes. Not participating in a genocide is not the same as opposing it but it is a start.

The Germans who opposed Hitler violently were condemned by the Nazis but were later cleared of all wrong-doing in courts and tribunals - celebrated in fact, so violence against violent, militaristic right-wing leaders is legal. If you were on a jury of someone who had killed Tony Blair could you really convict them ?

Before the invasion and genocide in Iraq, I opposed the war non-violently as best I could. This was a great mistake that hunderds of thousands of innocents paid for with their lives. What I hate is gesture violence. People who throw eggs at politicians just make it harder for those of us who would choose to throw rocks. Burning down a burger bar is bad for the environment but doesn't harm the multinational in the least. Setting fire to your neighbours car doesn't get you a car. Kicking a policeman doesn't harm any politician. Killing politicans - in fact any 'leader' ie anyone who issues orders - is not only moral and legal, it is neccesary until everyone learns to treat orders as insults.

Danny


For violent revolution

07.12.2005 23:42

Chucky R Larr


help me out here

09.12.2005 04:00

you don't want to follow any orders? none? so....to me, that sounds like you want to live like some kind of uncivilized ape. Tell me where I'm wrong.

avm


Peace

09.12.2005 11:42


And what a lovely world it would be, wouldn't it, if everyone felt they could resort to violence because they felt they were justified.

I presume you support the people in the US bombing abortion clinics.

And the BNP's attacks on their neighbours.

And the right of the Countryside Alliance to attack hunt sabs.

Hurrah! Add some black balaclavas in the mix and we'd be having as much fun as Bosnia!

t


Obedience and violence

09.12.2005 12:57

Do you really define your humanity by how quickly you can do what 'your superiors' tell you to ? I'd rather be an uncivilised ape than an domesticated ape. Uncivilised apes like me never get around to building gas-chambers, that's your job (not to blame you of course, you were only following orders of course).

Treating orders like insults does not mean treating reasonable requests unreasonably. It means not needing a cop to tell you what the right thing is to do.

Obedience and violence are of course quite separate issues but they are linked of course since most violence is carried out by people following orders.

Anyone who says all violence is always wrong is either a liar or a masochistic saint. To condemn everyone who has ever used violence equally is plain daft - you are equating the Nazis with the anti-nazi opposition, equating the rapist with the women who fights back, Red Cloud with Custer. I can't really think of any worthwhile people that condemned all violence equally. Sure, I can walk away smiling when some kid tries to pick a fight, as I choose who my enemies are for myself.


"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence". - Gandhi

"I'm opposed to terror- any rational person is -however, if we are serious about the question of violence we have to recognise that it is a tactical and hence moral matter ( incidentally tactical issues are basically moral issues, they have to do with human consequences ) and if we are interested in diminishing the amount of violence in the world, it is at least arguable and perhaps even sometimes true that a terroristic act does diminish the level of violence in the world. Hence a person who is opposed to violence will not be opposed to that terroristic act" -Chomsky

Danny


basics

09.12.2005 15:32


Quoting Ghandi is a double-edged sword. When asked what he would have done about the Nazis, he suggested that the Jews should have committed mass suicide (presumably the writers, musicians, gypsies, and gays also)

Personally I think Ghandi is wrong about acting on violence in the heart too. In my experience, if you are reacting to violence (rape, for example, which is one of the examples Danny gives as an instance where violence is 'justified') then you stand a much better chance of coming out of it well if you do not have violence in your heart, and are simply working to avoid harm. That way you are cool and calm, and not likely to create more of it.

But hey.

t


to danny

09.12.2005 15:37

cops don't tell anyone what to do. people have free will. people can do what they want. cops are there to bust people when they get out of line. they are there to maintain order and also to help people.

if you break the law, the cops try and arrest you. simple concept. no cop has ever walked up to me and said "hey, get me a cup of coffee, I'm a cop and I can tell you what to do."

Your assertion that this is the case is ridiculous.

avm


... but not all bastards are cops

09.12.2005 18:03

t,
Even people who enjoy violence - I don't - agree that you should be cool and calm. Put it this way, if someone takes a slap at me then I can choose to turn the othe cheek, but any guy slapping a woman about on the street has to be stopped physically there and then. If that can be achieved through restraint then great but otherwise I'd condemn noone for beating him up. And it is on the street so it is in Parliament.

Quoting Gandhi to support violence isn't a 'double-edged sword' (what a violent metaphor that is!) for the reason you state, but he is a double-edged sword for pacifists. He thought his non-violence techniques would work against the Nazis. He never advocated non-violence to the Jews in Germany to the best of my knowledge, but he was asked by a British reporter after the war how he'd have tackled Hitler. He was convinced any people would sicken themselves by endless slaughtering and abuse of pacifists - but the Nazis had already taken that into account. They industrialised the killing so that endless amounts of people could be killed and very few Nazis were required to perform this. I'd agree with you and say that is one extreme example of where violence is not only justified but moral - to oppose your own genocide or the genocide of others.

avm,
Cops don't tell anyone what to do ? And my assertion that they do is ridculous ? Wow.
I was using cop as shorthand for all authority - your father, the school, the church, the state, the boss - but it does amount to the same thing. All I can say is that you must have led a very sheltered life or must be very timid for no cop ever to have told you what to do.

No cop has ever told me to drink a cup of coffee, that's sure but I never claimed that. They have told me to get off my own street, 'stand up', 'stop standing there', 'stop smiling', 'stop singing' (actually that one is fair enough), 'come down from there', 'get out of the car', 'turn off the music', 'report to the police station in the morning', 'unlock yourself now', not to mention the ever classic 'come here so I can give you a kicking'. Now whether or not I was breaking any law or not doesn't concern me, for the most part I wasn't doing anything wrong and the times I was doing something wrong a simple reasoned request to stop would have stopped me. Good folk people don't need laws and bad folk ignore them.

Danny


Another view.

09.12.2005 19:59

"any guy slapping a woman about on the street has to be stopped physically"

I disagree, you don't know what she might have said to him.

"avm,
I was using cop as shorthand for all authority - your father,"

I don't know avm's father. What authority does he have?

Krusty the clown


Krusty the kunt

09.12.2005 22:50

"any guy slapping a woman about on the street has to be stopped physically"


What could a woman say to a man that would warrant a slap ? 'Please slap me I'm a masochist' ? I'm sorry, I have chosen to take your comments seriously, maybe you should also take the crap you say seriously because it has an effect Could a woman justify a beating from you by their very words ? Shame on you you insecure and violent reprobate. It's not like you are proposing cartoon violence, you are justifying domestic violence. Long may you stay single.

"avm,
I was using cop as shorthand for all authority - your father,"
'I don't know avm's father. What authority does he have?'

Sorry, I don't answer to those who laugh at domestic violence and rape. Go slap yourself silly and see if anyone cares. Or traqck me down, and I'll slap you silly. Shitebag.

Danny


Let's not get off topic.

11.12.2005 02:58

To David Arthur Johnston (Original poster),
" When we decry the brutality of the police remember that you may be decrying yourself, if you are the one paying their salary--- it IS that simple."

No it's not. I pay my taxes but I don't feel responsible for all the rapes, murders, tortures, assaults, paedophilia, freemasonry, and all other acts of bestial immorality that the police carry out.

"if one would risk everything to counter a damning and torturous mentality why not risk everything by living our lives while calmly disregarding the system that is repressing the people."

Try going to the Bronx or South Central LA and telling them that you freak.

"Don't be afraid of getting arrested again and again and again"

Only a freak like you could say that. If you had the slightest understanding of the capitalist system and the society we live in today, you would realise that anyone who represents a serious threat to the capitalist order would soon be killed or imprisoned permanently, or silenced in some other way ie. intimidation or being bought off.

"Consider that we help maintain this world because we have been maliciously taught to specifically be afraid of anarchy"

You, and people like you, are the reason that anarchists are regarded as such freaks, and rightly so. Your patronising, esoteric, new age bullshit is freakish grist-to-the-mill of expert secret service spys. With wishy-washy bollocks like this you are no threat to the established order and we can only fear from you that you will hug too many trees or kiss too many hippies.

To danny,
please dont quote ghandi or chomsky at us, like we care about middle class wankers. Also please dont use the word kunt becuse I find it to be offensive to women.

Chasey Lane


Some of my best friends...

12.12.2005 13:16

are middle-class wankers, and would happily kiss a hippy (how many are too many?) in the hope of progressing to the status of middle-class fuckers. Sorry about using the k word, it was a staple of my vocabulary before I was even old enough to know what it meant. Many of the women I hang around with use the term liberally so it occassionally slips out (oo,er,Mrs). I do try not to as I know some people find it inordinately offensive though I don't really understand why. You are right though, back on topic.

Non-violence is the only non-suicidal option when a bunch of scrawny, unfit protestors, have to face up to serious levels of force, such as actions against high-security military bases. Even if the soldiers weren't armed they could still beat us up without breaking sweat or worrying about it. NVDA turns that weakness into a strength.

The argument for violence is that is sometimes the only way to prevent greater violence. Our leaders face no censure for their violence and are beyond all laws, that if applied to the powerful as they are to the weak, would have hanged them for their treason. If they can hang us as traitors for passing a few details of our military onto a foriegn power then passing complete control of our military onto a foriegn power should carry the same sentence. If Blair had been killed before the Iraq war then perhaps hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved, whereas relying on NVDA means they could ignore public opinion and retire to huge pensions without fear of punishment. Perhaps the war would've happened even if Blair had died, he is not the only war-monger in high office after all, but given the probable and predicted carnage it would have been worth a shot. I'd celebrate if some disgruntled US marine decided not to frag his Captain but to aim a bit higher up the chain of command next time Bush or Rumsfeld used them as a photo-op.

Withholding taxes makes you feel better about yourself but it doesn't have any effect on the state unless massive numbers of people do likewise, and unfortunately that seems unlikely. I do admire people who live without using money if only because it is quite a difficult feat, even in a rich western country where few starve to death, but it does inhibit how much else you can achieve. I met an activist before the war much like DAJ who when I asked what he was involved in said he was living a good life as an example to everyone else. I slagged him rotten as he obviously wasn't doing a very good job.

Danny


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