Capitalism innit? Anything can be turned into capital and the mindless masses will love it, makes 'em feel safe and secure to be under it's rotten wing.

have you ever tried to put on a legal free festival?, any idea of thre liecensing,toilet, security costs involved?

dont have a go at the organisers who from the costs being quoted are unlikely to be getting paid, talk to your council, they are the ones who think they can dictate what xcan and cant be charged for the use of public space by the community

I've helped put on a legal free festival, but organising isn't one of my skills to say the least. I even managed to lose two of my firends last night - as in I've no idea where they are and they probably don't either. I hope they've got my mobile phone though.
This festival was free for at least 16 years so I don't see what has changed. It probably is something to do with the council but hopefully it will be a different council in a few days so no point complaining just now. All this 'added value' stuff - trips to Roslyn Chapel etc must add to the cost. How very Da Vinci Code. Even if wanted to see that movie then capitalist enterainment places like cinemas offer concessions. This particular hill is public land so it is owned by activists as much as anyone else - when the council tried to turn people away one year people were able to ignore them - but now, for those four hours it is owned by the festival organisers. Bands do play for nothing, maybe not the bands you like, they play just for the attention and to get laid. And who the fuck needs security when you are in a decent crowd - bouncers don't make me feel secure, they are threatening jerks. To be honest I could have got my and my friends in for free anyway but if I want to mix with drunk stockbrokers I'd head out in the newtown. Edinburghs declension started when hogmanay became a tickets only event. So what if it was wild and overcrowded - that was what was good about it. The only decent outdoor events I've been to in the past six years are out of town, illegal and word of mouth. I guess it is when you add that word 'legal' that everything goes crap. I'm never going to talk up any good event again, if something is decent then I'll be bad-mouthing it to keep it from getting yuppified. There is a really good free beach party coming up. It's on the beach just by the North Sea, you can't miss it.

I've worked BOTH sides of this issue and so am in a fairly good position to explain. We bitch out "exhorbitant" events, defend those putting on "unfree" (but reasonable) events by pointing out the costs (which we were often in a position to know), AND make our land here available to those wanting to put on FREE events (and I'll talk about our experience with that).

1) It often LOOKS like the total gate (here 84K #) is a lot of money. Well it would be if that were going into somebody's pocket. I suggest that you analyze the scale of costs (expenditures) for a 10K person event. I can't even imagine that (most of what we have been involved with more like the 50-500 people size).

2) IMHO experience, the folks putting on such events are probably trying to make it come out to aout 10% (HOPING to take in 10% more than the expenses). If you think that's still horrible (if they succeed in "profiting") you are again imagining ONE person's pocket. Let's assume that they "make" 8400# on the event. Say that was 100 people each putting in an average of 40 hours "prep". Does 2# / hour seem like they are ripping you off? What's "minimum wage" in GB?

Now in reality they NEED to try to come in 10% on the plus side because some years they come up on the minus side. Try to look at it THAT way. Suppose it ended up 10% minus one year. YOU think you could come up with 84K # out of your pocket? I can remember event organizers at the end of events feverishly toting up the late take (say mechant's tithes) t find out if they were going to end up a couple percent plus or a couple precent minus (and were going to be living on beans for the next six months).

3) Free (no money) events can't have fancy facilities. I told you we make our land available, but we can provide only the very minimum in the way of services. Primative camping. Well guess what. We very rarely get asked to allow an event here. The SAME people who want "free" (no money) events want hot showers, privies that are more than a hole in the ground with a tarp over, etc.

Look -- there are many highly touted "free" events (say the Rainbow gatherings) but let me expalin something folks. The "magic" that allows them to happen is both passin the hat AND some of us out there (who in our other lives may BE things like "system analysts") kicking in a bunch.

It wasn't Spring equinox, that was Ostara last month, I need to brush up on my wicca or my astronomy or both. I think you mistake some of the points I make though Mike. I was too pissed off to write well last night, and too pissed to notice this morning - I was surprised my rant had been promoted rather than hidden.

I only went to one Rainbow Gathering, funnily enough when I was a systems analyst. I did happily spend more than I would have at a ticketed festival but the magic that made it happen wasn't down to me, it was down to the hardwork of everyone who attended building the camp, communal cooking, and cleaning up after. All of which I was useless at the time. Now I am not slagging off all free festivals, I am genuinely asking how many are left as for the past few years I've had more important things on my mind.

Beltane for me is the one night on a hill. I'd have been on that night before the Beltane Fire Festival started anyway but it was good when it did. No camping required and public toilets within walking distance. Now there are all these other ancillary events that could be subsidising the main event, but most of them are free. It's not a matter of minimum wage, all the stewards and helpers are still volunteers. When I could afford it I donated more than £7. I don't like being told you can't get onto the hill unless you pay - I'd say though if it can't be done for free then it shouldn't be done at all on public land. Now the Fire Festival won't have got £84k cos most of the tickets would have been pre-sold for £5 + booking fee, and they won't see the booking fee .But say £50k is required to stage it - you can still break that down into concessions £12 waged, £4 unwaged for example. I don't like 'alternative' events that exclude the poor. The Fringe festival was started as an alternative to the Edinburgh festival, maybe a Fringe Beltane is needed. I certainly enjoyed last night more than I would have there.

I've been thinking about the Hogmanay event being ticketed because it was too busy in the city centre. It was only busy in the centre because that is where all the events are staged. If the events were staged away from the city centre then there wouldn't have been any need to ticket it. Put one stage at Calton Hill, one in the Meadows, the fireworks near Arthurs seat for example. It seems to be more motivated with keeping the police concentrated in one area where they can cordon off the city centre from the mass of the populace. As well as keeping a safe, pretty, compact venue for the rich tourists in the city centre hotels to witness the 'spectacle'. I can see why some locals are driven mad by tourists. Queens day in Amsterdam is much more fun. In fact hogmanay in Amsterdam is much more fun too.

Beltane has for a long time liaised with the council and done things by the book. Just 6 years ago the insurance for a whole year of events ran to £400. It's now into the thousands for Beltane alone (ask the insurers - they claim terrorism is the cause). In addition, the council now ask for rent, cleanup services, policing, stewarding etc and rates go up.

When the festival was free it was paid for purely by busking and by clubs. I used to sit on the Beltane committee and run a number of these clubs. Many years we only just scraped through but with the rapidly increasing costs and refusal to grant 5am club licenses on a number of occasions it made things really difficult to finance

Whilst Beltane has lost some of the apparent freedom it had, it has for many years looked after both performers and spectators through insurance and agreed health and safety provisions. Given the expanding costs, litigious nature of society and expanding numbers, there really is no option but to ticket the performance. This barely covers the current years running costs and performers still take their time to busk and raise donations to ensure the future of the festival

Admission is a sore point for a lot of people , but unfortunately its the only way to cover the rising costs of putting on the festival . No money, no festival on calton hill its as simple as that.
Yes they could move it to a friendly farm or commune in the locality ( and have done one year ) but then yer just preaching to the choir. If beltane wasn't in central edinburgh I ( for one ) wouldn't have had seen it, wouldn't have got involved and met so many amazing people.
The same is true for so many other people in the society who standing with a can in their hand all wrapped up , caught a glimpse of something fantastic outside their day to day . Leading to them cavorting round in bodypaint a year or two later doing something they otherwise never would have.

so then you have a diverse rag tag bunch of bankers ( yes bankers ) , vets , road protesters, students of all backgrounds , waiters, call centre workers , and other minimum wage workers brought together just through the love of the festival.
the label of ' sons and daughters of the filthy rich' doesn't correspond to the beltane fire society i know (and obviously love).

thanks
evan.

"so then you have a diverse rag tag bunch of bankers ( yes bankers ) , vets , road protesters, students of all backgrounds , waiters, call centre workers , and other minimum wage workers brought together just through the love of the festival. the label of ' sons and daughters of the filthy rich' doesn't correspond to the beltane fire society i know (and obviously love)."

Sorry, that is just my vitriol. Edinburgh has been yuppified at a great rate and turned into a 12 month Festival City. My family can't afford to live even in Leith anymore. Lots of pseudo-anarchist upper-class yuppies are misappropriating anarchist flags since they are 'chic'. And there are a hell of a lot of 'bankers' as you put it just out for a good night out. Now I personally could break into any event I wanted to, you would need a regiment of SAS to stop me getting onto Calton Hill, I just chose not to since some can't.

I don't know how you managed to keep it free for so long, but someone from the Beltane Festival give me this one small concession - why not have concessions on the tickets ? Cos even if you have to pay off 'terrorism insurance' and bullshit like that, why exclude the very people you have supported and who have supported you the most ? Like I said, if I was asked for £7 I would have paid it and went without whisky. When I am told to pay £7 for access to public land, I have to ask, who sold you my hill ?

A lot of people don't understand that BFS don't want to have to ticket Beltane - but unfortunately it's a necessary evil - otherwise it just wouldn't happen.

The reasons behind tickets costing £5 pre-sales/£7 on the night is because there is little if any outside income. It costs money to rent the hill from Edinburgh Council, it costs money to pay for the entertainment license - some astronomical sum in the thousands, which increases every year (a fee that is not assessed upon the organiser's ability to pay), the Council will not allow the event to run without adequate health and safety provisions and insurance, police presence and liason, toilet facilities etc - these all need to be paid for somehow (and mostly paid in advance of ticket sales!). There are also issues of H&S - hence why numbers have to limited - don't ask me - ask the Council. Oh and not to mention the bill for cleaning up the hill - which in reality is the largest cost!

Everyone yotu see, performers, drummers, torch bearers, stewards are volunteers - no-one's paid to do it. Performers themselves also contribute a large quantity of money towards the performance as well - all costumes are made and paid for by individuals - costs to the individual can run up to and beyond the £100 mark very easily!

BFS do not make a "profit" in the sense normally used - the money not used to pay for this years festival will be ploughed back into the society to pay for parts of next year's festival.

I hope you can understand a little better now why the event is ticketed ...