Skip to content or view mobile version

Home | Mobile | Editorial | Mission | Privacy | About | Contact | Help | Security | Support

A network of individuals, independent and alternative media activists and organisations, offering grassroots, non-corporate, non-commercial coverage of important social and political issues.

Hidden Article

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

A Critic On The IMC Of Athens Indymedia

pipitsa | 16.08.2007 13:30 | Gender | Globalisation | Indymedia | World

About the censorship in athens indymedia and not only......

How can we control the media if the leading Collective control us?

This question is motivated by the authoritarian practice and mentality that characterize the leading Collective of athens indymedia.
Indymedia is in general hierarchically structured just like an organization. There are few volunteers who control the national medium and the others, the participants,volunteers too, who write news, comments,articles, share music etc.
It is to say that i am not opposed to leading Collective. But under the condition that their members respect the basic principles which determine the whole community (real or virtual) and must be valid for both: leading Collective and members, in the case of indymedia: moderators and participants.
Indymedia works on the simple democratic principles of free information and expression and has a wide spectrum of goals from free information to the anticapitalistic activities.
All the participants but first of all the imCollective should be able to avoid or to manage effectively postings which promoting in any form discrimination and in the same time to ensure the terms for a really critical dialog based on comments and analysis of the published news or articles.
If on the contrary the Collective of indymedia leads the medium promoting either a) its ideology and the interests of the group or organization to which the members belong or/and b) in any form discrimination: defamation of persons, sexism, xenophobia, racism etc. or/and c) professional interests (especially in the case that a member or members of the imc is/are journalist/s in an official medium) than we have to confront not only a problematic but a truly crucial situation.
The leading Collective of athens indymedia has transformed gradually a site full of life into a dead corpus. The members use their position to censor without an explanation posts not according to their political ideas or to their moods. Furthermore they use their positions to promote posts which are discriminating for people without any political or economical power , for example the daily attacks against a trotskist musician, for radical left groups, for the Communist Party of Greece as well as for groups which belong to the punk scene.
I think that democracy requires either respect of principles and limitations or absolutely free publication of all opinions and ideas without censorship. But in no case that what the members of imc Athens practise,
, the use of the medium for their own benefits.
I have been hundred of times censored by the imc athens. And i want to show by two examples the political as well as the sexist thinking of its members.

Censorship as weapon to promote the line and interests of their own political group
The case Ioannis Dimitrakis

Since one year we confront a problem in the anarchistic scene related to Dimitrakis Ioannis and the connection of the anarchists with the common criminals.
Dimitrakis has been arrested as bank robber in 2006. According to the police and the official press he was together with 3 other persons. But only he was arrested. In a public letter and in two press interviews Dimitrakis has admitted his involvement in the robbery and has justified it on the base of his anarchistic convictions: he became a bank robber because he was against the wage slavery.
See for example two publications from dozen articles
 http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=532423

(the public letter from Dimitrakis)

or
 http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=730738
(from an official newspaper an article about him titled: “Speech about a disobedient person who became a robber”)

During the trial of Dimitrakis, one month ago, appeared witnesses who defended him in the following way: they said that 43.000 euros found in post office box in his name are collected as a “solidary fund” for political prisoners so they could pay for their legal defence. They added that Dimitrakis has been entrusted to keep the money because of his “high moral”. The court sentenced him to 25 years in prison.
There are two factors that must be known if one wants to understand this case. Firstly that numerous of persons are political prisoners in Greece and secondly that the justice,police and press try constantly to cultivate the idea that activists are identical with common criminals, who act total selfish.
Also there are in the greek jails over 20 political prisoners. 13 of them have been accused of being members of the guerilla organization 17 November. Among them there is the multiinjured Savas Xiros, a man who was medical tortured in the hospital “Evangelismos” in Athens and whose health situation is very critical. 1 prisoner has been accused of being member of the organization ELA (Revolutionary Popular Struggle). 3 persons are arrested during the march of the European Social Forum in Athens (2006). 1 person has arrested accused of attacking the president of the General Confederation of Workers. And other persons who i have forgotten. A great number of demonstrators is arrested during the demonstrations against the privatisation of education. Among them a worker and Timo B. from Germany. Only few of them are known by name. The majority is unknown. We speak of them like this: 60 demonstrators have been arrested on 8/3/07 or 40 demonstrators have been arrested on 6/5/07. And the solidarity movement is divided in thousand pieces without coherence and power.
On the other hand as i mentioned justice,police and press attempt systematically to bring close social fighters and selfish acting criminals.
The leading Collective of athens indymedia stand from the beginning in solidarity with Dimitrakis. A member or members of the Collective belong(s) to the group of persons who defended him before and during his trial. No objections to it. The solidarity was in accordance with their personal and political viewpoints. But an objection should be raised in regard to their practice in indymedia. They have censored silent as usual every opposite opinion and eliminated every effort to become this case object for a real dialogue among the members of the indymedia community. Such an authoritarian attitude could not help even the person with whom the imCollecive stand in solidarity, that is Dimitrakis himself. Because it is a well known fact in Greece that many activists had been forced to sign “confessions” structured by the police. The same happens in regard to people who commit common criminal acts so that the state with its mechanisms,police,justice and mainstreammedia creates a situation of chaos and contradictions in order to repress and to defame every resistance movement


Censorship as weapon to promote sexism
Dworkin´s theory can be understood with relation to her physiognomy and private life.
Žižek's theory requires an immanent understanding.

Before two weeks a person with the female nickname @mazon@ published in athens indymedia an
article titled “The sexistic character of the heterosexuality, sadomasochism and not only...”
 http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=744306#744307

The article appeared in the forum of indymedia, the only remaining section (in fact hidden), where discussion and analysis of news and different themes are still possible after the radical transformation of the newswire in 6 categories of publications and in two arts of comments in each category of publication. @mazon@´s article provoked an active discussion. With the purpose to support her point of view @mazon@ referred to Dworkin´s theory, total unknown to me. A lot of sexistic comments, signed with males and females pseudonyms, were published on occasion of this theory as thoughts,feelings or simple hard reactions to it. But nobody demanded from the imc of athens indymedia to censor posts as sexistic. And i think such posts are something natural because the majority of us is determined by patriarchal thinking. Then one of the participants considered as necessary for the understanding to download two photographs of Dworkin And another one added the following post: “Is this fellow Dworkin? That´s explained the whole thing”, that means “that´s explained her radical feministic theory about heterosexuality”. A few posts under the mentioned wrote another participant: “Not only now but also in her youth she (Dworkin) was grand Guignol”. @mazon@ and one or two others pointed out in their responses the sexistic elements in these posts and in other comments. They tried to get along with arguments and they did not demand any kind of censorship by the imCollective. At last appeared a post, which was the culmination of all preceding comments. In author´s opinion too much learning makes a woman mad and what happened to @mazona@, God forbid,- it should happen to another woman.
So i decided to download one of Slavoj Zizek´s wedding photographs with the purpose to apply the same external interpretation his theory as we did in the case of Dworkin, to make the sexism general, that is male and female, and i asked in my post the discourse community: “Do you like better the woman next to Zizek? She looks beautiful in jeans as well as in high fashion clothing. Become a theorist or earn a lot of money and you will get a woman like this. And how do you like Zizek? He keeps himself in form although he is over 60 years old. But i don´t like his huge belly and the frowning face of a mother boy that he has. In this age i prefer Mick Jagger. He is the owner of a real tower, is sexual and remains always a freak.”

 http://www.higher-yearning.org/uploaded_images/zizek_wed-781848.jpg

My post and Zizek´s photo had been immediately censored by the imCollective of athens indymedia,but at the same time remained Dworkin´s photos and the sexistic posts against her and @mazon@ untouched. Again and again i published the same post with the same photo asking the leading Collective of athens indymedia why the censoship in the case of Zizek and not in the case of Dworkin. The Collective were obliged either to respect fully the principles of indymedia and so to censor both of them or to let both published An honest third position does not exist .Nobody from the imc responsed to me. If this should be ascribed to their authoritarian character (...otherwise “alternative” or even “anarchist” people) or if they are forced by a “higher necessity” to act authoritarian, i don´t know. It belongs to the nature of indymedia´s structure, that the leading Collective itself and its environment, relations etc. remain not evident for the participants.

Indymedia is not non – hierarchically structured as it is maintained in the mission statement. That is a bad myth. There are the leading Collective and the common participants with their own interests and their more or less narrow/open thinking and acting but the participants have not a power position within the medium. And there are national particularities. If the leading Collectiv proceeds totaly arbitrarily, if it is a mal gobierno, as Zapatistas say, then the participants abandon it. Or the medium is condemned to play the role of an alternative shop window of resistance.

P.S. 1. I have already published this text in athens indymedia during a discussion in the forum of the medium concerning the radical transformation of the nweswire.My nickname was @. I suggested to the members of imc to bring the described problems up for a discussion in athens indymedia. Both of them, post and text, were immediately censored.

P.S.2. Sorry for the grammatic,syntactic and other mistakes in my text. English is not my native language and it is not a language that i wished to learn.




pipitsa

Comments

Hide 1 hidden comment or hide all comments

Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

discussion on the above is censored on athens.indymedia.org

17.08.2007 06:41

I published an article calling for discussion on the above. It disappeared within seconds. The policy of athens.indymedia.org on censorship is the following: If an article is violates the imc principles it is labeled as hidden and is not shown in the main page. However it remains on the server and can be accessed through the "hidden articles" page. This normally would facilitate control over the people running the imc.
In the case of my article simply referring to the above and calling for discussion, all text has been removed, including the title and description. Obviously there was no violation of principles, however the censorship continues and athens.indymedia.org becomes a closed group of like-minded people.
Please advise! How can we reclaim the media?
Best regards,
A user of athens.indymedia.org who has been contributing and reading it for years and is now deeply disapointed.

another user


Dont feed the troll

17.08.2007 10:43

Even from the first lines of this "critic..." it is obvious that this "article" isn' t a critical one but a characteristic example of troll (just look the nick).

The main purpose of this "article" is to say terrible lies about the action of Athens Indymedia in order to put a finger on the members so the police can arrest them (the example of Dimitrakis).

This "critic" is full of lies with obvious purpose to undermine and disinform about the action of Athens Indymedia Collective and its members (of course, there is no journalist, or any other professional interests in the terms of IMC Athens).

The basic principles of Indymedia are violated just from the phrase "control the media". This "critic" is a part of an organized attack which happens every day the last month especially the 15th of August, a day of holiday for everyone in Greece.

It has to be noticed that before this "attack" Athens Indymedia brought to the front very serious incidents of police brutality which remained at the front from all the mass media, every day in Greece during the previous month.

It is a question why an "article" like this remains still in publish with no contact with the Collective of Athens Indymedia at first.

For all the reasons above we ask from you this "article" to be hidden. If you would like to contact with us please use the e-mail

DON' T FEED THE TROLL

''The Athens IMC Collective''

imc athens


The Lack of Common Sense

18.08.2007 12:35

I could hardly find a more convincing proof that the author of this article is closer to the truth (if not 100%) than the athens imc reply.
"we ask you to hide the article" and "contact us via e-mail" ...so that nobody finds out we actually have lost our minds.
It would seem to me simply inconsistent from an indymedia collective to even think of hiding communication, facts, reasons, arguments from the public view. This IS what indymedia projects are for, right? To my eyes the athens imc is on a critically wrong path. I have been writing there for a few years and clearly the situation is getting worse. Yet this is the first time I got shocked by their ideas and their mentality so clearly stated in response to someone who dares to criticise them.

unanimous


The truth finally is coming up

18.08.2007 15:01

I am one of the hundreds (or maybe thousands) of greeks that used to read and write or post articles in Athens indymedia. The truth is that problems of censorship have occurred since many years. But the situation got worse after (what it seems to be) a group of anarchists took over the complete control of the Athens IMC. Actually some members left the Athens IMC and formed their own "indy" webpage.
The accusations made at the first article are true. Me too I have been censored or witnessed censorship tenths of times.
An example of severe censorship is the following:
-During the demo of the European Social Forum (Athens May 2006) there were clashes not only between anarchists and the police, but also between anarchists and leftists (especially COBAS from Italy). As it was normal there was a lot of discussion about what happened at that demo (where several demonstrators were arrested, injured by police or by other demonstrators). I have been told by many people (leftists) that they tried to post their comment with their point of view and it was vanished. I am not taking anyone's part in the dispute about who's fault was the beginning of the clashes between demonstrators, but I believe that both sides should express freely their opinion.

If the situation is so bad, then why the people are not reacting?

-First of all there is a lot of reaction. People are asking the group that controls Athens IMC all the time "Why my article/comment is vanished?" Sometimes there is a response from the collective, sometimes not and sometimes even the question is vanished!!!
- The people doesn't have many alternatives. Thessaloniki IMC was closed several years ago. There are a couple of other webpages (including the one made by people that have left Athens IMC) but they aren't so well known. Many people they don't know even that they exist. [Actually every time someone mention the "other indy" is being censored in Athens IMC]. And because they are not so well known the amount of articles posted is much smaller. Most of the people who would like to spread some information would post it at Athens IMC
So most of us we keep visiting the webpage in order to be informed, although that we know that we cannot express freely our opinion. The situation is getting similar to the TV stations! We don't like the TV channels that we have, but we cannot avoid watch them sometimes...

Censored


Hide 1 hidden comment or hide all comments

Upcoming Coverage
View and post events
Upcoming Events UK
24th October, London: 2015 London Anarchist Bookfair
2nd - 8th November: Wrexham, Wales, UK & Everywhere: Week of Action Against the North Wales Prison & the Prison Industrial Complex. Cymraeg: Wythnos o Weithredu yn Erbyn Carchar Gogledd Cymru

Ongoing UK
Every Tuesday 6pm-8pm, Yorkshire: Demo/vigil at NSA/NRO Menwith Hill US Spy Base More info: CAAB.

Every Tuesday, UK & worldwide: Counter Terror Tuesdays. Call the US Embassy nearest to you to protest Obama's Terror Tuesdays. More info here

Every day, London: Vigil for Julian Assange outside Ecuadorian Embassy

Parliament Sq Protest: see topic page
Ongoing Global
Rossport, Ireland: see topic page
Israel-Palestine: Israel Indymedia | Palestine Indymedia
Oaxaca: Chiapas Indymedia
Regions
All Regions
Birmingham
Cambridge
Liverpool
London
Oxford
Sheffield
South Coast
Wales
World
Other Local IMCs
Bristol/South West
Nottingham
Scotland
Social Media
You can follow @ukindymedia on indy.im and Twitter. We are working on a Twitter policy. We do not use Facebook, and advise you not to either.
Support Us
We need help paying the bills for hosting this site, please consider supporting us financially.
Other Media Projects
Schnews
Dissident Island Radio
Corporate Watch
Media Lens
VisionOnTV
Earth First! Action Update
Earth First! Action Reports
Topics
All Topics
Afghanistan
Analysis
Animal Liberation
Anti-Nuclear
Anti-militarism
Anti-racism
Bio-technology
Climate Chaos
Culture
Ecology
Education
Energy Crisis
Fracking
Free Spaces
Gender
Globalisation
Health
History
Indymedia
Iraq
Migration
Ocean Defence
Other Press
Palestine
Policing
Public sector cuts
Repression
Social Struggles
Technology
Terror War
Workers' Movements
Zapatista
Major Reports
NATO 2014
G8 2013
Workfare
2011 Census Resistance
Occupy Everywhere
August Riots
Dale Farm
J30 Strike
Flotilla to Gaza
Mayday 2010
Tar Sands
G20 London Summit
University Occupations for Gaza
Guantanamo
Indymedia Server Seizure
COP15 Climate Summit 2009
Carmel Agrexco
G8 Japan 2008
SHAC
Stop Sequani
Stop RWB
Climate Camp 2008
Oaxaca Uprising
Rossport Solidarity
Smash EDO
SOCPA
Past Major Reports
Encrypted Page
You are viewing this page using an encrypted connection. If you bookmark this page or send its address in an email you might want to use the un-encrypted address of this page.
If you recieved a warning about an untrusted root certificate please install the CAcert root certificate, for more information see the security page.

Global IMC Network


www.indymedia.org

Projects
print
radio
satellite tv
video

Africa

Europe
antwerpen
armenia
athens
austria
barcelona
belarus
belgium
belgrade
brussels
bulgaria
calabria
croatia
cyprus
emilia-romagna
estrecho / madiaq
galiza
germany
grenoble
hungary
ireland
istanbul
italy
la plana
liege
liguria
lille
linksunten
lombardia
madrid
malta
marseille
nantes
napoli
netherlands
northern england
nottingham imc
paris/île-de-france
patras
piemonte
poland
portugal
roma
romania
russia
sardegna
scotland
sverige
switzerland
torun
toscana
ukraine
united kingdom
valencia

Latin America
argentina
bolivia
chiapas
chile
chile sur
cmi brasil
cmi sucre
colombia
ecuador
mexico
peru
puerto rico
qollasuyu
rosario
santiago
tijuana
uruguay
valparaiso
venezuela

Oceania
aotearoa
brisbane
burma
darwin
jakarta
manila
melbourne
perth
qc
sydney

South Asia
india


United States
arizona
arkansas
asheville
atlanta
Austin
binghamton
boston
buffalo
chicago
cleveland
colorado
columbus
dc
hawaii
houston
hudson mohawk
kansas city
la
madison
maine
miami
michigan
milwaukee
minneapolis/st. paul
new hampshire
new jersey
new mexico
new orleans
north carolina
north texas
nyc
oklahoma
philadelphia
pittsburgh
portland
richmond
rochester
rogue valley
saint louis
san diego
san francisco
san francisco bay area
santa barbara
santa cruz, ca
sarasota
seattle
tampa bay
united states
urbana-champaign
vermont
western mass
worcester

West Asia
Armenia
Beirut
Israel
Palestine

Topics
biotech

Process
fbi/legal updates
mailing lists
process & imc docs
tech