Solidarity For Political Prisoner Sean Kirtley

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Magna Carta

16.09.2008 07:38

"to all FREE men of our kingdom".

NO ONE IS FREE SO NO RIGHTS of the Magna Carta APPLY STUPID

ioy io

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Very few rights for the common man in the magna Carta

19.09.2008 07:49

Did you even bother with a quick Google before you posted about the Magna Carta?

The MC was written by Barrons to force the King to bend to their will - it confers rights on those with land an titles - nobody else!

Magna Carta

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aizhengzhiliao

22.09.2008 06:54

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cnaizheng
mail e-mail: kfdjghskj@163.com
Homepage: http://www.xinyaow.com

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Action

22.09.2008 09:39

Perhaps while we all showing solidarity we could deal with the issue of why he is banged up, the two grasses who sold his details for £900, the bastard who copied his PC details while he was on the London action in return for a shorter sentance for herself ?

Nobody wants to talk about this and I'm getting really fucked off about how some groups will not deal with the cop problems they have.

Oldham Steve

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What the hell?

22.09.2008 12:17

What the hell are you talking about?

There was no known selling of details or shorter sentences for women in this trial?

The Sequani defendants were and are still very strong friends who would never sell each other out.

Friend of Sean

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"Friend of Sean" - really ?

22.09.2008 13:25

So you are a 'friend of Sean' but you don't know about the sell out he experienced from so called friends ? Doesn't seem very likely does it ?

Oldham Steve has raised the issue that is being ignored (or hidden) by groups like SHAC and WARN at the moment, that of police teams getting involved in AR work and turning individuals. Sean went down because he was sold out by J for money and by T to reduce her prison term from five years to 18 months. But of course as you are a "friend of Sean" you already knew that didn't you.

No friend of any grass or sellout

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So what ?

22.09.2008 15:03

So Sean was sold out and grassed up ? So what ? Yes it was the reason for his conviction but who cares ?

We will find the grass and we will act when we do but none of that matters compared to the animals. Please focus everybody

Until all are free

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There was no known selling of details or shorter sentences for women in this tri

22.09.2008 15:31

"There was no known selling of details or shorter sentences for women in this trial"

O really ? Funny how this says differently aint it ?

Lauren Gazzola - sentence reduced after "helping police with their investigations"

Keeping IMC bullshit free

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you got the wrong case!

22.09.2008 16:14

Has everyone gone mad? Who the hell is lauren Gazzolla? The 5 women got found not guilty by a jury after a 4 and a half month trial, so what prison sentences were handed out or cut short?
There was nothing to grass Sean up about.
Get your trials, cases correct, this was in hereford, What is London action, you lot have really embarrassed yourselves...............
Who the bloody hell is oldham steve when he's at home?
There has been so much coverage about this trial so goodness knows how you got every single fact wrong...................

I should know.

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still confused what you lot are going on about!

22.09.2008 18:00

lauren gazzola was one of the shac 7 in america.

me again

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Betrayal - we're not stupid

23.09.2008 12:56

Of course we know about Sean's betrayal in the same way we know who in the SSAT organisation copied his hard-drive. There's no need to act now, these people are now isolated from membership details and operations. They may well have sold their souls for money or to cut prison terms but that will not stop us or prevent our work from continuing.

Real friend of Sean

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BULLSHIT!

23.09.2008 13:07

"Real friend of Sean" you are talking shite Seans hard drive was taken by the cops, no-one copied it. I had daily updates from Sean after court and attended often to listen to the evidence, no statements were made against each other this is total rubbish as usual!

No one sold anything or anyone out in this case, this is a 100% case of police posting lies on Indymedia. Anyone who knows the defendants knows the truth.

Bobby

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Disinformation from Bobby

23.09.2008 13:30

Good try Bobby but the copying of Sean's hard drive is known about by a number of us so bad luck with trying that crap. We also know who did it and why, we know what was copied and whose details were recorded.

I don't know of you are a cop or just a troll but do remember that a lot of Sean's friends are regulars here on Indy so we know real FACTS rather than bullshit from people. :-)
Cheers

Mark

Mark

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Plea bargin

23.09.2008 13:34

Details on the reduction that Laureen received on her prison term as part of the US/UK anti SHAC operation is here

http://www.supportlauren.com/

It's no great secret

SHAC person

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More fantasy.....

23.09.2008 13:40

Sean was not to anyone's knowledge grassed up except by maybe Dave who was more foolish than anything, by talking in interview and by pleading guilty he did Sean no favours. No one in the group really talks to Dave and he does not come on demos any more. The general consensus is that he is a bit vulnerable, a bit odd and not really aware of his actions. This is it really and we are not going to target someone with addictions and possible mental health problems as a grass.
No one had a sentence reduced except Dave who went guilty because he was offered a non custodial sentence. If he had been in the trial due to his inability to modify his behaviour he would have been detrimental to all the other defendants. Without any doubt he would have been acquitted if he had pleaded not guilty but would have probably got sent down for contempt of court as he would have had at least one outburst. The police will particularily target vulnerable people with addictions, mental illness, learning difficulties and behavioural problems something for all of us to be aware of and pre-empt it by protecting those who could be targeted.
Lauren is NOT a grass but one of the SHAC 7 who is currently in prison in the USA and has absolutely nothing to do with this case. She deserves respect and support not ill founded rumours especially when she cannot defend herself.
What on earth is this £900 and London action about? This is the first time anyone has heard about it and if it is relevant either more details should be published or it should have been kept a secret. Rumour mongering is only going to harm Sean (which is maybe what those posting these nonsense allegations have in mind). No-one else was found guilty so there was no other sentence to be reduced. The Sequani defendants and those of us involved in the campaign are all good friends and have no concerns other than police repression and those who are trying to cause a split.

lynn Sawyer

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Fantasy ?

23.09.2008 14:42

Fantasy, why because you say so Lynn ?

I think a lot of people in the movement are a little tired of your attempts to tell the rest of us how to act. Now it seems you get to decide how we think as well.

Your background as a regular foxhunter is already suspicious enough (we've all been bored with the story of your 'conversion' to the cause) and now it seems that you are trying to deny information that is already in the public domain - why would you do that ?

Sean was grassed up, some people know all about it and if in the past it wasn't being talked about that's because there was a search for those who did it but now that's all in the open so there is no need to hide it.

The SHAC group both at a national and regional level is infiltrated by the police. We've known about it for at least four years and we know who some of them are, for obvious reasons we didn't talk about it but after Sean's case and the evidence that was presented there was no need to cover it up anymore. Those we have identified are no longer in positions where they can do damage, the others we will find. The police have used despicable tactics to turn people including bribery, large payments, threats over employment and much worse.

For your sake I hope you are not one of those who have been bought, I will continue to give you the benefit of the doubt, don't give me a reason to change my mind - posting lies on Indymedia UK is a reason.

fuck NECTU - Justice for Sean

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change the record...

23.09.2008 15:53

So we are all supposed to believe someone who hides behind anonymity and makes vague accusations and threats and do what they say or else.. I think this is a bit suspicious myself and I think anyone with basic common sense may think so too. Anyway I am always happy to speak to anyone who has a problem with me (email is down at the mo'though) so feel free to call anonymously if you wish and if you are going to make threats please make them interesting. If there is evidence of any grasses then publish it, if you are investigating a grass then no-one else should know about it outside the group doing the investigating. Unless those involved in rumour mongering say why they believe what they do then sorry their credibility is zilch. No I have not sold out.
Lynn

Lynn Sawyer

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lynn Sawyer

23.09.2008 15:55

The post above claiming to be from me is by a troll or trouble causer.

I am fully aware of the facts concerning Sean's conviction and the people who grassed him up.

I have no further comment to make on this and would advise others to do the same until all those responsible are identified.

Please e-mail me to confirm this if you wish.

lynn Sawyer
mail e-mail: lynn@sawyer8749.freeserve.co.uk

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Lynn Sawyer's email

23.09.2008 16:06

"(email is down at the mo'though)"

No it's not I sent an email to Lynn this morning and she replied about 15 minutes ago

copwatch

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talking of people mental health problems!!!

23.09.2008 18:59

All these weird and wonderful comments are being made by one person signing off as different people, very very sad, and whats all this about membership and organization details, whoever you are with your many names you don't know a lot about the AR movement.

Star

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Mark is delusional.

23.09.2008 19:13

Mark please tell us who copied/recorded Seans hard drive!

curious

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Anti Fur Rally

24.09.2008 12:02

Will you be bringing your good mates in the BBC and the Police along?

A Question

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The WARN police problem

24.09.2008 13:44

Chris,

You amaze me, those of us who have worked within the WARN grouping know well the problems that we've had. The police infiltration is a major problem and pretending its not is just stupid. You talked about this with Sara only last week and posting stuff like this on Indy is not the way to deal with it.

Mark

m-walsh@livenet.com

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Let's set the record straight!

24.09.2008 15:20

I couldn't believe it when I heard about the debate going on - betrayal, selling out, grassing and copying Sean's hard drive...I then read it for myself and decided that it is time to set the record straight once and for all - straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak!
I was a defendant in the S145 trial with Sean and would like to confirm that all the allegations made about grassing etc are complete lies. Yes, it could be somebody trying to cause trouble within the movement, but, please, whoever you are, have some respect for the people who gave up a large chunk of their lives, preparing for and going through this trial. Also, have some respect for Sean, who is currently in prison, awaiting his appeal.
For the record too, NOBODY apart from the police and the computer expert for the defence, had a copy of Sean's hard drive. The allegation that money had changed hands over this is the most pitiful thing I have heard, since Sean's sentence.
The Sequani defendants all stayed friends thoughtout the trial, we were there for eachother, supporting eachother through the difficult times, a friendship that could probably only be truly understood, if you were one of us.
Whoever is making these silly accusations, enough is enough, please stop now, as this is the truth, from somoeone who lived through, first hand, every minute of every day of the trial.

A Co-D x

Co-defendant

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My final word on this

25.09.2008 13:51

As somebody who is in part responsible for this thread by starting it let me give you a rundown and why I said what I did and why I am so frustrated with the AR groups and general movement at the moment.

Before I start let's clear up a few things, I am not a cop, I am not a bored GSK employee, I am not any of the other things that have been alleged so quickly by people not wanting to deal with this issue. I am an individual with many hard years experience at the sharp end of liberation work, I started with sabbing and have since moved on to more direct actions focused on vivisection scum and the places they work. Despite the (suspicious) requests of some I fully intend to remain anonymous and resent the implication that doing so reduces the accuracy of what I say. For those of us who do the liberation work anonymity is our best weapon and it's why most of the time I do not post to Indymedia or other websites.

Sean was sold out, grassed up, so were others. There are some who have been close to his campaign who have known about this for some time, others only recently, many still do not know. Despite some clear evidence there are individuals in various campaigns who are to put in bluntly ignoring facts and evidence when put in front of them concerning the massive amount of police infiltration in the AR movement right now. I firmly believe that certain key members of some groups are either full time undercover cops or paid grasses who been persueded or forced by the police to work with them. I think that some of them have posted here and are working very hard to get discussion of the whole problem shut down before too many questions are asked.

This issue needs to be out in the open, discussed openly, exposed to investigation and debate not shut away so that certain chosen ones can decide for the rest of us what the answers are. That is not acceptable.

We don't need to put all our evidence in the public arena, that would be stupid but at the same time we don't need to sweep it all under the carpet either. My local group is already dealing with this in a robust and forceful way. Two people who we discovered were cops have been sidelined so they don't realise we are on to them and our links to other groups have been quietly dropped to maintain security. At least one of those cops was instrumental in gathering the evidence that has led to Sean's problems, we know it and for those friends of Sean's who don't - that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

For the record Sean's hardrive was copied while he was in London. It was the weekend when he talked about the damage to his kitchen for those who know him.

Oldham Lad

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My final word on this

25.09.2008 13:52

As somebody who is in part responsible for this thread by starting it let me give you a rundown and why I said what I did and why I am so frustrated with the AR groups and general movement at the moment.

Before I start let's clear up a few things, I am not a cop, I am not a bored GSK employee, I am not any of the other things that have been alleged so quickly by people not wanting to deal with this issue. I am an individual with many hard years experience at the sharp end of liberation work, I started with sabbing and have since moved on to more direct actions focused on vivisection scum and the places they work. Despite the (suspicious) requests of some I fully intend to remain anonymous and resent the implication that doing so reduces the accuracy of what I say. For those of us who do the liberation work anonymity is our best weapon and it's why most of the time I do not post to Indymedia or other websites.

Sean was sold out, grassed up, so were others. There are some who have been close to his campaign who have known about this for some time, others only recently, many still do not know. Despite some clear evidence there are individuals in various campaigns who are to put in bluntly ignoring facts and evidence when put in front of them concerning the massive amount of police infiltration in the AR movement right now. I firmly believe that certain key members of some groups are either full time undercover cops or paid grasses who been persueded or forced by the police to work with them. I think that some of them have posted here and are working very hard to get discussion of the whole problem shut down before too many questions are asked.

This issue needs to be out in the open, discussed openly, exposed to investigation and debate not shut away so that certain chosen ones can decide for the rest of us what the answers are. That is not acceptable.

We don't need to put all our evidence in the public arena, that would be stupid but at the same time we don't need to sweep it all under the carpet either. My local group is already dealing with this in a robust and forceful way. Two people who we discovered were cops have been sidelined so they don't realise we are on to them and our links to other groups have been quietly dropped to maintain security. At least one of those cops was instrumental in gathering the evidence that has led to Sean's problems, we know it and for those friends of Sean's who don't - that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

For the record Sean's hardrive was copied while he was in London. It was the weekend when he talked about the damage to his kitchen for those who know him.

Oldham Lad

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Let's talk

25.09.2008 15:28

OK Oldham Lad your comment about Sean's kitchen got my attention - which I guess is what it was supposed to do.

It seems that you have some of the same info that I have. I agree with what you are saying and trying to do, let's work together.

Email me on the link here and let's talk, use any name you like but so I know its you put in the title of your email the name of the girl with the cat tattoo.

Thanks

Notts person
mail e-mail: nar@veggies.org.uk

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"Oldham Lad"

25.09.2008 21:16

Oldham Lad's final comments pretty much put the final nail in the credibility coffin...

"I started with sabbing and have since moved on to more direct actions focused on vivisection scum and the places they work"

I think not.

This and all other references to liberation work are HIGHLY questionable. Those who know who does what around here are well aware of people involved. Pointing out that Indy is not a reliable source for anything is not ignoring the issues, it is pointing out the obvious. We all know there are undercover cops and grasses in the movement, do we really need to keep refering to it in every post? It's important but nothing to be amazingly worried about, just keep it in the backs of your minds and be cautious... dont let it stop you doing anything. And again, KEEP IT OFFLINE FOLKS. If youve got info about someone being dodgy, tell people in person as previously said. NO point in speculation over the internet. Only solid evidence should ever be spread across the internet.

libby

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just ask!

26.09.2008 09:48

look, this is easy enough to resolve - just ask sean. simple really innit.

observer

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Ask Sean

26.09.2008 13:14

I think that's why some people are getting frustrated at the constant denials of Sean having been informed on. We did speak to him and he is as unhappy about it as the rest of us but of course is in no position to comment.

I read a lot of arrogance in the posts here, it seems to be a case of,

'Well if I don't know about it it can't be true because I'm at the heart of AR work in the UK'.

Remember we are not all in the public eye.

Louise

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Question for Libby

26.09.2008 13:27

Libby:

You wrote,

This and all other references to liberation work are HIGHLY questionable

Just what sort of actions makes someone a credible activist in your eyes for fucks sake ? I would say that Sab work and direct actions against premises is highly effective as part of the wider movement. I'm sure you do work as well perhaps more around street collections and demos but please don't be critical of others just because they choose alternative methods to help the animals. I despair at all the, 'Im a better activist than you' stuff that people post to Indy.

We are all on the same side you know.

my contribution

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Response to above

26.09.2008 16:20

To the above poster, just to clarify...

I agree with you completely! The questionable nature was towards Oldham Lad who was claiming involvement in such activities, nothing to do with the effectiveness of the activities themselves. For what its worth I more than agree with liberations and all forms of direct action, I just don't believe this person is who he says he is, does what he is hinting he does or has much (or any) credibility to what he is saying. Sorry if it wasn't clear the first time ;)

libby

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Different viewpoints do lead to conflict

26.09.2008 16:35

There are people in animal rights work who disagree strongly with the actions of those who adopt direct tactics. I don't think its beyond posibility that Sean was sold out by somebody within one of the organisations we all know because he or she was at odds with the approach Sean took to his campaigning.

This might seem wrong to us but I have been on demos for example where I have heard people slagging off those who mask up and confront the cops and even heard comments like - They are just kids looking for a fight or They don't belong here with that attitude.

I'm not saying that I think that or that I would ever sell someone out but I can see why somebody else would having heard others talk.

london

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At last

26.09.2008 16:49

Just got back after a couple of days, read this thread and my only comment is

THANK GOD WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT !

Those who betrayed Sean might be hoping we are going to just let it go but screw them we are not. We are going to expose them and tell everybody, we are going to use Indy, Libcom and everywhere else we can think of that animal rights people read and we are going to talk about those snakes who took money to fuck Sean over.

Free Sean
Homepage: http://supportsean.wordpress.com

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Thanks for your approval

26.09.2008 16:55

Well Libby its good to know that you have changed your mind, I'm sure we're all happier knowing that individual activists can freely continue to work if you say its OK.

Perhaps if you knew Oldham Lad, and I do, you would be a little less high and mighty. I'm willing to bet he has done a hell of lot more real work for animals that you ever have. With self rightous shits like you on Indymedia I can see why some don't bother with posting here anymore.

Why not spend a bit more time on animal related matters than getting at others from the safety of your keyboard.

Sarcastic b'stard

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For those who do not know

28.09.2008 11:56

I think a brief explanation is called for here to clear up the confusion.

No of course Sean was not doing anything illegal.

His arrest and charging was directly related to the police portraying him as some sort of organiser of events, this they did as a result of records he had on his PC. When his hard drive was copied and the contents either passed or sold to the police (we are still not sure which it was) the police used those records as proof of the status they claimed for him.

We know full well who did the copying, there is still doubt if the same person passed (or sold) it to the police. It may well have been a third person. Those records are still with the police depite the, being obtained illegally, we are trying to get them returned.

It of course sickens us all to know that Sean is sitting now in a prison cell because of the actions of this person but before the conde,nation begins we will wait until the full reasons are known and understood. It is quite possible that so,e sort of police coercian was used.

Until all the facts are known we would ask that people stop discussing it on public websites like this.
Thanks

Mel

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Save the bunnies

29.09.2008 09:58

stuff the bunnies- save the guinea pigs, no no save the mice.. eat meat and your brain cells may start to work

Carny

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SG - I wonder who you are

01.10.2008 08:57

So SG thinks that infiltration of the movement is \"comical\", that Sean having to rot his life away in a cell is \"comical\". SG thinks that people should be providing contact details on Indymedia so he can \"trust\" them.

Yeah thanks SG, I think we all recognise your motivation don\'t we ?

More and more evidence every day is coming to light concerning those in the various groups who are either police or in the pay of drugs companies or testing organisations. This information is being shared only with those who can be 100% trusted so to those who are not in the loop we are sorry but it will all be in the open very soon.

People will be named and named in a very public way with full disclosure of events and the extensive evidence we have amassed. Those who think they have hurt the movement are sadly mistaken, we will emerge stronger and more committed from this terrible period in our history, smaller yes but stronger.

Rikki

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