communique from antispeciesists -  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/05/399106.html

will there be lacto/ovo-vegetairan, semi-vegetarian, pescetarian, pollotarian and other vegetarian dishes available to promote speciesism? or is it pure vegetarianism that is meant when described as "a celebration of [...] lifestyles"?

either way, if only there was a day to pat ourselves on the back for being anti-racist and anti-sexist...shame. [not!] fight oppression, don't celebrate what is morally expected!

if any antispeciesists bother to attend this event, similar to comrades in paris last year, i hope you consider the following: resistance.

see also a detailed criticism of "veggie pride" events -  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/04/427246.html?c=on#c221458

Fuck your fluffy corporate Veggie event - get to the streets and stop this Middle Class crap

The veggie movement is getitng like the gay movement, overtaken by corporate interests and sponsership.

Not an event I have any interest in

This event transcends class issues, are you saying that anyone who takes an interest in promoting a positive vegan diet is "Middle Class"? Fuck off! That logic is like saying anarchist bookfairs are Middle Class and only Rioting is a working class trait.

Turning one person vegan is more of an achievement than most direct actions have EVER achieved. Anyone who slags off outreach like this has no care for animals whatsoever.

Chris

all people seem to do on this place is slag each other off, makes me laugh, I hate you, you hate me, all trying to out do each other, who is the best activist, it seems sometimes that ego takes over and you miss the point.

by the way you don't have to go to this event, but why slag it off? Instead of making remarks just go out and do something you feel is more positive.

:]

If people want to scream and shout at me, please feel free, I just ignore you.

veganhero

Don't like the idea of this? Then don't go, better yet organise your own event the way you think it should be done.

Because its speciesist promoting vegetarianism for a start, sorry to break reality to you!
By all means promote veganism, but don't fucking celebrate it - it's egotistical pure and simple!

"Anyone who slags off outreach like this has no care for animals whatsoever."

Sorry Chris I have to disagree. I'll confront speciesist, racist, sexist or any other fascist outreach, because I care for animals human and non-human. Nazis or fellow comrades, I really don't care. I have much more for sympathy for the oppressed than friends I associate with.

I'm not saying people shouldn't go, instead do something about the corporate elitism/sponsorship and blatant speciesism if you have the time for it. Just like genuine antifascists, such as black anarchists (APOC) who block, gay radicals (Bash Back) who crash and militant antispeciesists in Paris last year (Antispe) who subvert events. Don't just join in like a domesticated animal and follow everything that's got veg in it, think for yourself and act accordingly! Be militant and radical, that would be the best form of outreach and direct action you could achieve on the day!

"Instead of making remarks just go out and do something you feel is more positive."

I have time for both thanks, as do you it seems! As for calling yourself 'Veganhero', seriously, ever looked up the word ego? You're promoting yourself as 'the best activist' here! Also shame to hear your ignorance extends to ignoring others, so much for open mindedness!

P.S. - I don't hate you, I reserve my hatred for speciesism which you are promoting. This is nothing to do with 'who is the best activist' but what is speciesism and what is anti-speciesism. I actually quite like you, Chris and others who are lending this speciesist abomination a hand.

"Turning one person vegan is more of an achievement than most direct actions have EVER achieved." - Tell that to the Underground Railroad, Blank Panthers, Suffraggetes, etc!

You're saying turning one person towards an anti-fascist lifestyle is more of an achievement than most direct actions have ever achieved? Seriously?!

So you are applying this to the past? Turning one person towards an anti-racist lifestyle (boycotting racist stores/products) or turning one person towards an anti-sexist lifestyle (boyctotting sexist stores/products) is more of an achievement than most direct actions ever achieved? It was armed militants that changed history mate, not boycotts!

Boycotts change the majority, history (good or bad) has always been made by a minority. This is because the majority have always been (and still are) domesticated. The enemy is not the public, its not them that *needs* to change, its the state that needs to be destroyed, to allow such change. Racism and sexism are alive and kicking for example.

Yes vegan advocacy helps, but only indirectly. It allows people to then directly make change by taking action (by attending/organising protests, liberating animals etc). On the other hand, have you ever considered that people become vegan and take action because of the mass militant direct action that occurs? I know I did. SHAC was my first inspiration, not a corporate based leaflet. What followed was motivation from Bite Back Magazine, similar to others. Now I'm taking action and critically thinking, unlike most new welfarist vegans. I know I haven't explained this very well, but the basic truth is promoting the moral norm is not direct action - defending the moral norm through action is.

---

Your slogan above is part of the Francionian effect, or Franciombe as others describe it:

> Firstly denying that the animal liberation movement is entirely a growth out of human liberation, by claiming false differences within the movements (basic speciesism).
> Secondly prioritising indirect action over direct action (an anti-anarchist perspective).
> Finally drawing individuals towards the authoritative and destructive doctrine of pacifism.

Please don't progress to no.3 Chris, its clear you're at 2.5 already!
Sorry but its true. Love and rage xxx

The people involved in organising this venture have worked hard and have put their necks on the block on many occassions. Don't like it, want something else, fair enough, go off and do it and stop whining about what other activists are doing. It is hilarious to call Chris a pacifist. I myself am most certainly not a pacifist by any stretch of the imagination but I'm pretty hopeless in a fight. There is a time and a place for using force and yes this event is fluffy and non violent and not the place for a ruck. A circus with sociopaths, a fanatical bunch of police, a crazy hunt, different matter entirely save it for then. All I know is that those being criticised as "too fluffy" have stood firm against Hall's thugs and not run off when mad circus freaks have attacked.
If you don't like it either bugger off or astonish everyone with the brilliance of YOUR action/event.

In what way do your cultural ghettos and lifestyle cliques include children. Just how many decent events do vegans get to take their kids and can be garanteed not to have the smell of burning flesh wafting all over the place. Do we really want a movement exclusive of all other generations other than 20 somethings blinkered to any other forms of expression. It takes allsorts to make a movement. All the stalls will be vegan, even down to mask making instead of face painting because of lanolin in the facepaint. Did you even bother to inquire, i doubt it. Were you vegetarian before being vegan, almost certainly (like the rest of us). If you want to do something about it get up there with some leaflets and let vegetarians know what they condone or you could just stay in your vegan burrow and carry on preaching to the converted,

Will abolition come when the Vegan Party get into power
or
Wiill it come when people see the violence they inflict on animals for what it is?

"The people involved in organising this venture have worked hard and have put their necks on the block on many occassions." - Who's fault is that?! Not the oppressed that's for sure!

"It is hilarious to call Chris a pacifist." - I think so too! Where did somebody call him that? By the subject of his reply "Make the day yours..." it's obvious what is implied - the opposite!

"There is a time and a place for using force and yes this event is fluffy and non violent and not the place for a ruck." - Isn't the time and place when animals are dying?? Or is this a "I'll tell you when a diversity of tactics is appropriate" speech. It's authoritative to say the least. What did ever happen to a diversity of tactics, by ANY means necessary? What a shame.

"A circus with sociopaths, a fanatical bunch of police, a crazy hunt, different matter entirely save it for then. All I know is that those being criticised as "too fluffy" have stood firm against Hall's thugs and not run off when mad circus freaks have attacked." - This is pure selfishness. It is saying that self-defence is acceptable, but extentional self-defence is not.

"If you don't like it either bugger off or astonish everyone with the brilliance of YOUR action/event." - OUR action isn't welcome it seems, by the doctrine detailed above.

"Were you vegetarian before being vegan, almost certainly" - No I wasn't actually! I was vegan when I no longer wanted to exploit animals for any reasons. It took me a while to get to pure vegetarianism but this is nothing to do with veganism - it is an ideology. Even if I was, is this really the point? This event is celebrating a speciesist diet over promoting veganism.

Note: Pure vegetarianism is a diet. Veganism is an ideology. You are ignoring the reality that you can become vegan before coverting to vegetarianism - mind bursting thought I know!

"All the stalls will be vegan, even down to mask making instead of face painting because of lanolin in the facepaint. Did you even bother to inquire, i doubt it." - It's because I knew so, I didn't have to ask thanks! MVC wouldn't aid vegetarianism financially, only ideologically so.

Why is it that somebody critical is accused of living in a burrow? Do you know me? No. Keep to the debate not the pathetic, immature and stereotypical insults, seriously.

"Will abolition come when the Vegan Party get into power
or
Wiill it come when people see the violence they inflict on animals for what it is?"

Hahaha thats a funny question! Neither by a long way. Obviously not the first, but I think by suggestion you mean the second? People see the violence inflicted against human animals, such as blacks, women, gays, in war, on the streets, for profit, etc, and it continues... what a ridiculous question when the same applies to non-human animals!

Will abolition come when my hair turns green, purple or blue?
or
Will it come when people dismantle the authority over animals that people already see?

So everyone cheered last year when antispeciesists occupied McDonlads in Paris, but sulk at the suggestion of this happening in the UK, in OUR country? Can I be the first to say it...?

Oh the irony...

>> In what way do your cultural ghettos and lifestyle cliques include children. Just how many decent events do vegans get to take their kids and can be garanteed not to have the smell of burning flesh wafting all over the place. <<

How about have a search and find out?

 http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=vegan+festivals&meta=
 http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=vegan+fairs&meta=
 http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=vegan+fayres&meta=

There's plenty of events!
No Excuse For (Celebrating) Animal Abuse!

I was not in Paris but I heard about it and it sounded great. However a small group of people can invade McDonalds any day of the week and this is brilliant and it would be good if it happened more. It is up to individual activists if they do this or not.

However to advertise a big event like this or indeed a march attracting maybe thousands of people and be able to have sound systems, food etc it is necessary to liase with the authorities which means that activists are putting themselves forward as organisers, which means that it is THEY who will face repercussions from the police etc. Has not anyone noticed that conspiracy to blackmail is favourate charge of the month? I know that EDO demo' and indeed the Sequani demo last year were purposely and effectively arranged without any police liason. Interestingly though some bright sparks decided that the Sequani demo was therefore a police trap there is always some anonymous armchair critic doing their best to undermine other activists. It went well but excluded people on bail or licence, those who do not want to be arrested, children and the more vulnerable adults. Of course we should do this sort of demo' again but we do have to bear in mind that many felt unable to attend.

I support wholeheartedly both sorts of demo's/events. This event will attract new people and will turn at least some people vegan. It is disgusting that there are those who are trying to undermine it. Presumably they could do a better job of it?

I looked up the links but noted the complete lack of storming McDonalds and masking up. Presumably then these vegan fairs which attracted young children let the side down a bit?
I am not sure why these events are deemed acceptable and this Veggie Pride event is not?

What Chris meant was that turning someone vegan will save however many thousands of animals in their lifetime, which is hard to do in one direct action.

This seems like a great opportunity to spread the vegan and animal liberation message to potentially thousands of people who will probably be very interested as they will already be veggie. It seems weird for all the vegans to hide away when we could be there making more people consider veganism. How did you turn vegan? I'm sure someone pointed you in the right direction, and to miss an opportunity like this seems really weird. If vegans don't go out and educate people there will be no vegans, and people like you locking yourself away thinking you're innately better than everyone else will be to blame.

If you are planning a spectacular direct action I will take this back. I won't be holding my breath though.

Rather than sitting at your desk massaging your ego with intellectual bollocks get your arse down there with some leaflets with the relavent info inside and give the vegetarians attending the opportunity to make a conscious decision. If you convert one vegetarian to being a vegan then your effort will have been worthwhile. Glass half full mate. You can either use the opportunity to inform lots of people who have taken one step closer to becoming vegan or you can sit at home sulking with your head up your arse. Your choice init.
I for one will be vacating my vegan burrow (very nice that it is) and joining loads of other vegans who chose to vacate their vegan burrows temporarily and enjoying myself without having to remonstrate with lines of riot police for a change.

You prove my point. They are few and far between unless you want to travel the length and breadth of the country (which is expensive). It's also debatable as to how kid friendly they are (lots of nice food which is always a start). I'm sure some are better than others. Have you ever sat in a car full of kids for a couple of hours in heavy traffic. Doesn't really come under the heading of 'convenient days out'. So, the more the better, yeah?

this event is important whether or not you agree with the more fluffy side, all movements have had to have a fluffy and a seperate more hardcore sect.
this event is a fluffy one but still has valididity. beleive me veggie pride in paris was not militant but far from it and it took the naughty people in the croud to stir up some fun. the organisers where pissed off at it. as where most members of the croud.
people need to realise that nothing will happen unless you make it happen so if the event is too fluffy for you either do not attend or attend and then do something you would consider more hardcore (not that i would consider a bit of argybargy at the doors of a mcdonalds hardcore).
i would rather theese events took place than they did not and i wish all militant activists the best of luck on their travels.
Love, Lib, and stay safe!

get some fitwatching on the go if you want some fun maybe?

Does a farmed, exploited animal care how you went vegan or why? Do those who see some reason to change their behaivour and stop abusing life mean nothing in the liberation of suffering.

I'm not going to put anyone down since the meat and dairy industries do that enough but this ain't middle class fluffy stuff for the ego. There's better ways for that if you wanted it but this is for life and its continued value.

Break into a chicken farm and resue a few thousand chickens, yeah they will have a better life but unless you'd crippled the business then the farmer will buy more. Get someone to go vegan and thousands will be saved, more people will inspire others to change and the overall impact on the meat and dairy industries will be to close.

I had my doubt's about it been called veggie pride because I'm glad to be vegan but unlike me most people go vegetarain first and then become vegan. If anyone has the answers how to end the exploitaion and suffering to the planet then carry on, good luck with that and let me know the results.

All people can do is their best to stop the suffering to the animals and humans, nature and all things. If people don't like the idea of Veggie Pride then go to the seaside and exploit cheaply paid foreign workers.

We should stand in solidarity with everything that could be positive for animals. This looks like a good bit of positive fluffy PR for the cause and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact it's brilliant!

We need both the fluffy and the militant to win this thing. Everyone is needed in this movement. Unless you can predict the future, you don't know what's going to work so diversity is key!

Peter Jolly's circus is at Leek Wootton, Warwickshire near Coventry not too far away. They have been very violent to protestors so we doubt very much their anger management issues and sociopathic tendancies disappear when they "train" those in their "care". Interestingly they have stopped advertising venues on their website. Demo there on Sunday anyone?

"Tell that to the Underground Railroad, Blank Panthers, Suffraggetes, etc!"

I actually said "than MOST direct actions" I should clarify that I was referring to the animal liberation movement. My comment was not that direct action does not work or has never worked. I fully support direct action, however in regards to non human animals I stand by the statement that positive vegan outreach e.g. stalls, fayres, marches and leafleting will save more lives than MOST single direct actions could, after all are we not trying to change peoples view that non human animals are items.

I do agree that promoting vegetarianism is not good enough, and considering how easy veganism is in modern society the veggie step is not needed. Midlands Vegan Campaigns are a vegan group who promote veganism. I agree that maybe the event could have been more geared towards Veganism however this is an opportunity for people to educate themselves in an environment that is welcoming to anyone.

I am a believer that the all of societies problems stem from our reliance on hierarchical social structures and this hierarchy extends to our dominance over non human animals as well as other repressed humans. I agree that militancy is a needed when confronting institutions that oppress us, but anarchism starts in the mind, everyday actions to improve your community and quality of life should be the basis of what we do.

I think that saying that this event is corporate sponsored is absolute bullshit, the sponsors of this event are small vegan organisations. I fully support businesses such as Yaoh in the same way I purchase veg from the local organic farmers market and local health food shop etc.

I mean using money, "buying" things, what consumer whores we have become. I suppose every "militant" vegan who has posted on here has achieved self sufficiency and is typing these comments on a laptop made from lettuce leaves powered by wind direct from the allotment?

It is astonishing how many MILITANT veganarchists post on indymedia in response to these articles? Where were you at Sequani when we needed you to confront the police because of activist repression? Where were you when we were getting beaten by the circus, the hunters, the fur shop owners, the security, the police? I know who I trust, I know who has got my back, I know who is "militant" enough to stand when it is needed yet I don't think we have met?

The reality is if you don't like something confront it by all means, even if you don't like VP say your piece you might even be right. However words without action are worthless. I fully expect to see a militant march this year organised by "veganarchists". Because all I see is words while good people who don't dignify this shit with a response continue to get sent to prison for actions against all exploitation!

Ya Basta!

Chris

Lynn:

"However to advertise a big event like this or indeed a march attracting maybe thousands of people and be able to have sound systems, food etc it is necessary to liase with the authorities which means that activists are putting themselves forward as organisers"

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/05/429572.html (EDO march)
 http://london.indymedia.org.uk/articles/943 (G20 day of action)

Not true! Both events 'organisers' did not ask permission from and for authority. There is no need to liase with authorities, we already have the right to march in large numbers. The Smash EDO wrote a great article about this and how applying for authority is not only hierarchical but justifys worse repression for campaigns which don't ask.

I can't find the article but check the Smash EDO newswire (I looked but couldn't find it).

"It is disgusting that there are those who are trying to undermine it. Presumably they could do a better job of it?"

Undermining speciesism is not digusting, you know that and I know that. Presumably others such as myself are not looking to do a better job of it, instead taking other action? Maybe others are already doing a better for it, by promoting veganism without egotistical celebration!

"Presumably then these veggie fairs [sic] which attracted young children let the side down a bit?" - Exactly. Promoting speciesism (in the form of vegetarian) towards children is appalling! Would it be ok if it were racism, sexism, homophoia or transphobia? Of course not!

"I am not sure why these events are deemed acceptable and this Veggie Pride event is not?"

As already explained - "Because its speciesist promoting vegetarianism for a start, sorry to break reality to you!" - Think dairy, eggs, fish, chicken; all varieties of vegetarian diets.

I respect you fully as an activist Lynn, but don't agree with all you say as I don't automatically conform to yours or anyone elses opinions.

--------------------------

United Vegan Sick of Whinging Intellectuals:

"enjoying myself without having to remonstrate with lines of riot police for a change." - It easy for you to say. I guess you've never been threatened personally by authority to need to challenge it? It's part of the racist and sexist comfort zone, a pleasing pacifist ideology.

"You prove my point. They are few and far between unless you want to travel the length and breadth of the country (which is expensive)."

Anyone with a basic understanding of geography can tell this isn't the case! There are more vegan fayers/festivals than veggie pride events. Anybody from far will have to travel the length of the country (which is very expensive), instead of going to their local vegan event.

--------------------------

Dean: "Get someone to go vegan and thousands will be saved, more people will inspire others to change and the overall impact on the meat and dairy industries will be to close."

This is NOT a proven theory as it firstly doesn't account for those who stop being vegan and world population growth. You can't rely on statistics without taking them all into account.

Furthermore, as perviously explained, boycotts have never made history - because they've never made history. They help, but they don't MAKE social change. If enough people boycott an industry the state and its allies will merely band together to keep it there, look at history.

--------------------------

Be the change! : "We should stand in solidarity with everything that could be positive for animals." - Exactly. The only problem is promoting/celebrating speciesism is not positive!

We should stand in solidarity with anti-speciesism, as enemies against speciesism.

--------------------------

Chris:

"however in regards to non human animals I stand by the statement that positive vegan outreach e.g. stalls, fayres, marches and leafleting will save more lives than MOST single direct actions could" - Please also see my reply to Dean on this subject in general.

As I said, by stating that this has been/is not the case for the human liberation movement, but only for the non-human liberation movement; is a speciesist perception of animal liberation. It's the same idea as you say; trying to change peoples view about ANIMALS.

My point is that human liberation is (biologically) part of the animal liberation movement. By stating the past liberation for animals (for humans: women/black/gay/disabled) is different to the animal liberation movement today which includes non-humans is pure scientific ignorance!

"I do agree that promoting vegetarianism is not good enough, and considering how easy veganism is in modern society the veggie step is not needed" - I'm glad!

"however [ignoring the blatant speciesism] this is an opportunity for people to educate themselves in an environment that is welcoming to anyone." [sic] - So vegan fayres/festivals aren't welcoming to all? Why aren't veggie events considered as exclusive as vegan events? Its ignoring basic logic and reduces the popularity of vegan events through welfarism.

"I think that saying that this event is corporate sponsored is absolute bullshit, the sponsors of this event are small vegan organisations." - This is sponsered by the corporate welfarist Animal Aid -  http://www.veganmidlands.org.uk/veggiepride/sponsors.html

Please don't try and tell me they are not a corporation and welfarist!

"I suppose every "militant" vegan who has posted on here has achieved self sufficiency"

Maybe not, as any extreme (insurrection or lifestylism) without being 'backed up' by the other practice is ideologically flawed. Insurrection on its own won't bring about lifestyle change and lifestyle change will not act as a rebellion against the state. It's called a combined praxis for social change; without both entities (and neither extremes) we will never make change!

"and is typing these comments on a laptop made from lettuce leaves powered by wind direct from the allotment?" - Or a dumpster dived (re-built) laptop and cracked internet connection in a squatted house? Don't be so narrow minded Chris, seriously!

"It is astonishing how many MILITANT veganarchists post on indymedia in response to these articles? Where were you at Sequani when we needed you to confront the police because of activist repression?" - Maybe we were right at the front or acting covertly elsewhere?? What is this some sort of test for militancy? It's a joke and the oldest (statist) joke in the book.

Furthermore, how do you know ALL posts are not from many, but just from me? I can tell you that I'm not the only one, but I don't think many others use the posting name.

"Where were you when we were getting beaten by the circus, the hunters, the fur shop owners, the security, the police?" - Hundreds of miles away taking other action? No offence but we're not your security guards or backup activists. I instead act autonomously with others, something you infact promote I believe. How do you know we don't demo elsewhere?

"I know who I trust, I know who has got my back, I know who is "militant" enough to stand when it is needed yet I don't think we have met?" - We have many times, but this isn't the point. When/if we meet again I'll let you know it was me disagreeing with you, honest.

"The reality is if you don't like something confront it by all means, even if you don't like VP say your piece you might even be right. However words without action are worthless" - I entirely agree. I confronted this event ideologically and regularly act against speciesism.

"I fully expect to see a militant march this year organised by "veganarchists"." - Seriously? Maybe veganarchists (such as yourself) have already helped organise events (CAV)?!

I know what you mean though and maybe there will be events organised under the banner, or maybe antispe is based on the philosophy of veganarchism so there's no need?

"...all I see is words while good people who don't dignify this shit with a response continue to get sent to prison for actions against all exploitation!" - (Do you mean the event or the replies, it's hard to tell what you're describing as shit - no offence!)

1. Maybe your not thinking hard enough? I'm posting without my real/group name. I could be doing anything you don't know about, or do but don't realise it's me and others acting. What are you asking for here? A list of demos I've been on, the stalls I've held, the anonymous reports I might of sent to Bite Back - what exactly? It's a shame activists (by your standards) have to 'prove' their activism before being genuinely accepted as a valid opinion. It's jumping to conclusions and stereotyping. I'm not sure what to say other than its pure foolishness.

2. Maybe we're acting in solidarity with those who are sent to prison.

3. Maybe I've said too much as there's no test for militancy and there never has been. As I said proving militancy is a complete statist joke - it's asking you to admit your activism, something I'm never going to do. Not for you, anyone else and especially the state.

All the best and keep up the good work though - still no hard feelings from my end!

Of course we do not all agree on everything. To reinterate I and the others involved in this thread are all vegan. In fact many of us also do our utmost to only use fairtrade, organic, local, recycled, dumped stuff. I admire anyone who can get a scavenged laptop working, such feats are way beyond the capabilities of most of us (certainly mine), we are all learning but for now many of us are still caught up in dependancy on certain services and goods for example I have a car which I use to get to work and demos, I am aware that this is a compromise but believe for now the car is a necessary weapon in my arsenal, ditto my mobile phone.
Those who worked hard to make Veggie Pride a success are all vegan and have all been on the frontline of actions for many years. I have the utmost respect for all of them. Yes I suppose Veggie Pride could have been called Vegan Pride (I see you point) but I can see that "Veggie" might attract lacto/ovo vegetarians and that they may become vegan. Everything at Veggie Pride was vegan not an egg or milkshake in sight and certainly some people are now on the road to veganism as a result of the event. I do not think that someone has to agree with every single aspect of an event or organisation but to lambast an event as "speciest" is not constructive.
Of course EDO and the CAV demos were successfully organised without liasing with the authorities. No one who went to either event was under any illusion that the police were going to be a bit fiesty and so were activists. Veggie Pride set out to attract newcomers, families and jaded activists who for one day wanted to eat good food and meet friends without being chased by police or whipped by some psycho from the local hunt.
Animal Aid do a lot of great work in fighting animal abuse. To be honest I personally have very little to do with them apart from handing out their leaflets if I do a stall but see no reason to criticise them, they do their thing I do mine. I could hurl criticism at the BUAV, NAVS, CIWF the RSPCA etc but feel that first of all they all do some good as welfarists, secondly that I have enough enemies to play with. I just avoid these groups unless they criticise direct action, do something disgusting such as "Freedom Foods", or we have a common purpose for a short time (I have just emailed the Egyptian embassy regarding the torture and murder of pigs via CIWF for example).
I have no doubt that many such as yourself may be very active and not attend demos, that is common sense but I still see no need to attack those of us who attended an event which was well organised and could only have undermined human supremacy a little rather than reinforced it.