If you have questions for Mark Kennedy/Stone...
copwatcher | 14.11.2011 16:50 | Policing | Repression
copwatcher
Additions
here is the Q+A, for the record, to show what an asshole he is
15.11.2011 00:06
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/confessions-of-an-undercover-cop/articles/live-qa-with-mark-kennedy-10pm-monday-14-nov Q&A with Mark Kennedy: Confessions of an Undercover Cop
(11/14/2011)
Monday November 14, 2011
2:33
Channel 4 Community Manager:
You can submit a question for Mark below, we won't publish any until the Q&A starts at 10pm, after tonight's programme. We look forward to welcoming you back here then.
9:57
Channel 4 Community Manager:
Good evening everyone and thank you for your questions so far, we will begin the Q&A with Mark shortly after the programme finishes.
10:00
MARK KENNEDY:
I'm ready to take your questions
10:00
Channel 4 Community Manager:
Good evening Mark, here's the first question.
10:01
Comment From Liam
Do you miss being a police officer?
10:01
MARK KENNEDY:
no i don't miss being a police officer
10:02
Comment From TRIGGAGE
If you hadn't been caught, would you still be living that life now?
10:03
MARK KENNEDY:
No, the strain of the life i that i lead would catch up with anyone eventually.
10:03
Comment From IanVincible
Are you suffering as a result of betraying friends and lovers? What is your advice for other serving undercover cops?
10:06
MARK KENNEDY:
it is very hard to reconcile, i am still trying to come to terms with everything. Regarding the advice to other UC's look in to what you are actually being asked to do , and try and work out where it wil end
10:08
Comment From Jane
Is anyone in prison, anywhere in Britain or Europe because of information you provided?
10:08
MARK KENNEDY:
no
10:08
Comment From Frazer
Did you feel pressured to join the Police to follow in your fathers foot steps or was it a career you really wanted?
10:09
MARK KENNEDY:
it was a career that i was passionate about at the age of 19
10:09
Comment From James Wilkin
Owing to the dangers that you may face and the time spent away from home, do you think it would be more responsible to only put people without partners and families into this position or do your roots help you to maintain your focus on the reasons that you are doing the job?
10:10
MARK KENNEDY:
thats a very good question and one that i feel needs to be addressed by those that make the decisions regarding deployments. I hope to be able to contribute to that process.
10:11
Comment From matt
do you feel as though you wasted your life for the past 7 years taking on the job you did?
10:12
MARK KENNEDY:
No i dont feel as though i wasted my life. I met some amazing people, i met a wonderful woman, and i also did a job, all hugely conflicting i know but thats how it happened.
10:13
Comment From Guest
Do you think you should have got out earlier to avoid the heartache?
10:15
MARK KENNEDY:
in retrospect yes, but the circumstances and the pressure to fulfill what i was being asked to do resulted in the end living day by day
10:15
Comment From Katie
Do you feel guilt or any remorse for those people who's trust you gained, lives you became part of and then betrayed in the most unforgivable way? ARE YOU SORRY?
10:18
MARK KENNEDY:
yes of course, i met people that i will never forget for the rest of my life people that showed me love and care and friendship like you cant believe. People that i stood side by side with, i wrestle with that every day.
10:19
Comment From Fiona
Was it hard for you to appear so passionate about the environment amongst the other activists?
10:21
MARK KENNEDY:
very good question, No not at all, the environment is an extremely important issue and one that we should all be passionate about. Activism is a sliding scale and every body should have the opportunity to express their feelings how they want to. Obviously the law currently has a boundary.
10:21
Comment From Richard
Do you miss protesting? And did you ever agree with any of the reasons why people were protesting?
10:23
MARK KENNEDY:
I totally understand why people protest and its right in a democratic society that people can. I did have frustrations at the processes that people went through to get their point across sometimes. I miss the comradderie the friendships that i had with many great people.
10:23
Comment From Dan
I was very intruigued by the programme, I think you are brave to share the story!
10:24
Comment From Will
Wow - great program Mark
10:24
Comment From Phil
You were very brave to make this programme - can't have been easy to 'expose' yourself again to the media and the often unsympathetic public. Has the process been therapeautic in any way?
10:26
MARK KENNEDY:
This process has been hugely carthartic, i would not be doing this Q&A today if it was not for Brian Hill and James Ross sitting me down and letting me cry and share for weeks on end. I thank them for their help. What they did was their work and independent i merely contributed and it saved me.
10:27
Comment From ben
You lied to everyone, your friends, lovers, wife, and your bosses - why should anyone take what you have to say now with anything other than a very large pinch of salt?
10:31
Channel 4 Community Manager:
Sorry we have a short delay, Mark is answering Ben's question and it will be published very soon.
10:31
Comment From jude
I think Ben is missing the point. Mark was undercover and had to lie.
10:32
MARK KENNEDY:
I appreciate the comment, its very hard to know how to answer that, there are many people out there who know what i was to them and how i was to them........Those that know....know and the rest you will have to make your own minds up upon what you see and read.
10:33
Could you be an undercover cop?
Yes
( 35% )
No
( 65% )
10:34
Comment From Paul
HI Mark. Amazing that you ended up falling in love. Did your bosses know that you were having a relationship? How close were you allowed to get to these protesters?
10:34
MARK KENNEDY:
For my whole deployment i thought i was the only ever UC to have the relationship that i had. I was living Mark Stones life day by day. In hind sight with the amount of intel that was coming in from various places it seems unbelievable to think that they did not know.
10:35
Comment From Pete Nicol
Mark, was there a point during your deployment that you realised there was no going back to the Police force? If so, how did you get your head around it?
10:37
MARK KENNEDY:
I was undercover for nearly 8 years, I did not get any further training during those 8 years, so when it did end i was left hanging with not very much to offer to any other dept, outside of what i knew. Things had moved on massively and it was overwhelming to have to face that without support.
10:39
Comment From Unger
Dear mark, I understand you are afraid of showing up to the Copenhagen Documentary Festival and that you had to cancel. Does this mean you are ashamed of some of the methods you used? I sure hope so, because after you got busted?
10:42
MARK KENNEDY:
I was more than happy to go to the Danish Film Festival. I think it was important to engage and am willing to do so at future events. My reason for not going was because the film festival asked me not to attend becasue they were worried about trying to provide security and as a result of this decision the documentary makers who have a duty of care towards me felt they could not meet that. Lets have a debate at the next one.
10:42
Comment From Mark Golder
has the girl you fell in love with forgiven you?
10:43
MARK KENNEDY:
We spent some amazing times together, both wonderful and hard. It's her decission alone how she feelds about me
10:44
Comment From Guest
Would you spy on the police for us protestors?
10:45
Do you think undercover operations are necessary and the needs justify the end?
Yes
( 54% )
No
( 46% )
10:45
MARK KENNEDY:
I think i would be found out in an instant, but give it go, their backs are against the wall right now!
10:46
Comment From Bert
Are you still a vegan ? what is your favourite dish ?
10:48
MARK KENNEDY:
Yes im trying hard, Sunday Nut roasts were and still are the best
10:48
Comment From james
re: the poll question, it depends on the operation! criminals yes, peaceful protestors no!
10:49
Comment From Ciara
Have you kept friends from the police force?
10:49
Comment From Lynne Taylor
I agree with James but who decides who a criminal is?
10:50
MARK KENNEDY:
No I have not spoken to a single person from the police. That saddens me because outside of the police role I thought I might have had some old friends.
10:50
Comment From George J
Criminality decides who a criminal is.
10:50
Comment From Jesq
What posotive thing do you think has come out of all this?
10:52
Comment From Guest
As a serving officer, I have done UC (level 2) and when you are trying to tackle drug dealing, firearms, child pornography etc etc, trust me undercover ops are essential.
10:52
Comment From Stef
For the question about undercovers and needs justifying means etc. HAS to depend on who they're infiltrating? Like Mark said - HE wasn't dealing with sex traffickers etc. it seems to me that there are a great deal of operations that I imagine are mainly justifiable, but not Mark's and what he went through.
10:55
MARK KENNEDY:
OK Massive question, and we can only wait to see. What I hope for, is a) Protest realises what it can achieve and what it can challenge, that the police are more receptive to peoples rights to protest. Its a difficult road to tread but there is everybody out there trying to get their point across. Also hugely important UC work will never go away, so more support and care and understanding of what you are putting a UC into needs to happen.
10:56
Comment From Shaun
How is the rebuilding process going for you Mark? Personally i hope you manage to get through the guilt etc and enjoy life.
10:58
MARK KENNEDY:
It's a slow process, I have met some amazing people recently that are helping Mark Kennedy find himself and I can only thank them for their patience and their friendship.
10:58
Channel 4 Community Manager:
Mark lots of people have been asking - after all that has happened, who are you now?
11:00
MARK KENNEDY:
someone who wants to make a dfifference, a change and someone who wants to be real. Thank you to everyone who contributed this evening. I hope it helped.
11:00
Channel 4 Community Manager:
Thanks Mark, it's been good to have you here tonight.
11:01
Comment From Claire
Mark you have a life to look forward to and hopefully you will get support
11:02
Channel 4 Community Manager:
Thank you to everyone who has joined us, Sorry if your question wasn't asked, we had thousands submitted, here are a few comments from you.
11:02
Comment From mally
I've asked a few questions Mark to no response. I admire you and take my hat off to you and truely wish you luck in life.... Its time to build bridges and move on. Its been 15 months since i resigned. Like you i became a no one... I cried and hated myself for what i did.
11:02
Comment From jason paterson
dont look back move forward mark - respect
11:03
Comment From Jane a
Good luck to you and use your gained wisdom well
11:07
Channel 4 Community Manager:
That wraps things up for tonight, if you missed the programme it's on 4oD now:
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/confessions-of-an-undercover-cop/4od 11:13
Channel 4 Community Manager:
Thanks for joining us, if you'd like to leave a comment you can continue to leave your thoughts here:
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/confessions-of-an-undercover-cop/articles/your-comments-on-confessions-of-an-undercover-cop
reading his comments make me sick
Comments
Hide the following 43 comments
Questions?!
14.11.2011 17:02
Anarchist
Questions? I have a flower for him
14.11.2011 17:51
V
Ignore this programme
14.11.2011 18:38
The more people who watch this programme and take part in the "live chat" the more money he will make. Treat him with the contempt he deserves and just say no to his money making attempts.
A N Other
If he gets payed for answering questions...
14.11.2011 19:58
pleb
It won't be as direct as that
14.11.2011 21:50
The more people watch and take part in the "live chat" the more chances there are of further sales. Just say no to him getting more pieces of silver.
A N Other
!
14.11.2011 22:06
top cop
haha
14.11.2011 22:36
lol
ive got a question...
14.11.2011 22:47
dave
Bigger picture
14.11.2011 23:38
Meanwhile the people he screwed over are really going to teach him a lesson by not listening to him !!!
Milel
Here we go with the mentals making up or repeating rumours again...
15.11.2011 00:38
Don't repeat lies or untruths, it's damaging and is disruptive politically so if you do expect to be called on it.
Anarchist
Gibberish
15.11.2011 00:55
Please though Anarchist, let's not try and trump Kennedy's bullshit with bullshit of our own.
Spike
real facts
15.11.2011 04:30
Well that is simply untrue. It's of course possible that 'Anarchist' did not know but up here in the Nottingham area a number of people did and there was a VERY big debate about making certain facts public. I for one was in favour of making everything public straight away but was persuaded not to speak out, I now regret that when I see the damage that he did to a number of campaigns and individuals.
Milel
Vegan ?
15.11.2011 04:33
Whenever he wanted a shag and there was an AR woman nearby
Sarah
For Milel...
15.11.2011 07:56
It wasn't perfect but we did what we thought was best at the time, and we had numerous factors to consider. Would I do it differently with the knowledge I have now? Yeah, I probably would want to do a few things slightly differently, but not massively so, as I think we did OK in a fucking horrible, messy and difficult situation that nobody I know has ever faced before.
So, your facts are wrong. Check them before you spread rumours that we hid things for months cos that's a pretty serious accusation.
BTW, if you ask around I'm sure you can find out who I am. If you do, let some people in Notts know who you are rather than making serious inaccurate allegations anonymously here, and then introduce yourself next time we're in the same place, and accuse me of being part of a group of people that hid the fact he was a cop for months face to face.
Anarchist
Whatever you think
15.11.2011 09:54
Thoughtful......
vegan
15.11.2011 10:30
MARK KENNEDY: Yes im trying hard, Sunday Nut roasts were and still are the best
hmm....
anon
Come on
15.11.2011 10:58
Spike
Sickening
15.11.2011 11:31
@
If Anarchist is...
15.11.2011 11:41
In fact the content of our conversation was that it would be unfair to allow RUMOURS to circulate about a 'friend' without confronting him and allowing him to answer the allegations.
Rudeboy
Never let an activist do an anarchists job
15.11.2011 11:46
Accusing those people of incompetence and egoism in handling the situation, almost certainly yes, would any of us done any better under the circumstances, hard to tell, but probably not.
The guy got away scott free because he knew he was dealing essentially with radical liberals (with a hippy bent), and that's probably why he lasted so long in that environment.
Social scene
Pretending he's sorry is bad enough, but he was never even remotely vegan
15.11.2011 11:48
As for nut roast, wtf? I haven't seen a nut roast since about 1986.
Ronny
Vegan?
15.11.2011 12:09
Vegan Schmeegan
international link to video
15.11.2011 13:12
lotek
Activists are also making their own film about being spied upon
15.11.2011 13:15
blackhelmetproductions.net
also spied upon
It's easy to judge
15.11.2011 14:01
infiltrated
We were ALL infiltrated
15.11.2011 14:13
Tired
never shout when you can scream
15.11.2011 14:30
Of course this is an outsider simply because 'we' are not allowed full disclosure on what happened. i find that slightly creepy (and entirely consistent with activist mentality).
Social Scene
At Spike...
15.11.2011 16:02
We did have a discussion about whether to go public without asking Kennedy but we thought (and rightly so it turned out) that the first thing people would ask us was "what has he said" and we thought that if our reply had been, "err... we haven't asked him" we'd rightly discredit the evidence and give him time to make up a story that was more believable and so cause more disruption amongst us.
Like I said, not perfect, but nobody has yet told me a better way that they thought they would have handled it generally. Oh, unless it's someone on the internet where obviously everybody knows a better way, and is more radical, and would have killed him and his children, yawn... Fine, if that's the case off you go, sure he'd be pretty easy to find if you left your sofa/pub/squat/computer and actually looked for him rather than just gobbing off about it.
It's a pretty simple chain of events and it makes me suprised that people struggle to understand something so simple, and can't give people doing the work an element of trust and the benefit of the doubt that they did the best possible, rather than you thinking it was some mad conspiracy to hide things from you/the movement. Work, which, BTW, we didn't volunteer for but ended up doing due to the things unfolding they way they did.
Just ask yourself whether you really think people would hold onto the fact he was a cop for months? Why the fuck would we do that? It makes no sense that you would think that was the case unless you're listening to repeated rumour rather than fact, or already have some weird grudge or mental health issue that's playing out for you through this incident.
Let's move on, finally.
Anarchist
Well said Anarchist!
15.11.2011 18:25
Anonymous
ok......................
15.11.2011 19:25
Kennedy is no threat now, yet everyone is crying like girls about him. He did his job, and did it well, but fucked up, got caught and is now a sad fucked up guy who is possibly trying to put things right.
Everyone has gone on about how well the Germans did with Simon Bromma compared to Kennedy. Bullshit, there is a couple of pics of him out there, and he was grassed up by someone who knew he was a cop, We got aced by a guy who was good at his job, and saw enough good in folk to discredit the cops in favour of us activists.
Get over it, and face the new danger
workingclassguy
Ah well
15.11.2011 19:37
St Andrews Uni fan
Bless
15.11.2011 22:22
workingclassguy
So let me get this right
16.11.2011 06:14
FFS!
A film about those being spied on?
16.11.2011 09:48
Yet another little film- not shown at your local cinema- to feed the egos of those who continue mourning a cop instead of seff criticising the narcissistic lifestyle trends that facilitated his job, hence taking some responsibility. 'Just Do It' for yourself and go to a therapist, or to X Factor if you really really need your 15 minutes of fame.
Anonli
glasshouses
16.11.2011 10:06
..because its so much more fun to believe the worst of others rather than to actually engage your brain
..because it's so much easier to condemn others for the way they acted than to act yourself
..because we want to build the kind of society where people are found guilty with no right of reply
..because we want to build the kind of society where peoples feelings must be sacrificed to the cause
..because the ends are more important than those pesky means?
frustrated
Shit-stirrers?
16.11.2011 13:12
anarchist
Oh really...
16.11.2011 13:57
I agree with comments above that people aggrieved about stuff like this, by people they claim to know, should have mentioned it to them face to face rather than sniping anonymously on Indy, did you do that over the last year?
???
To 'anarchist'
16.11.2011 17:09
Yes, a certificate was obtained but it was far from definitive proof and it was only obtained a very short time before Kennedy was confronted. I can't remember now but it might have been a day before or so NOT MONTHS. We've been slagged off for making the information available too soon and slagged off for not making it available sooner. See what the problem is here? We made a judgement call; some folks thing it was right, some wrong but we didn't cover-up or conspire to hide it FFS. Give us some credit. Some individuals emailed Indymedia/did other stuff, but that WAS NOT anyone as a group, so stop making out like it was and using it to make some spurious inaccurate judgement.
And like I said, it wasn't perfect - in fact it was a fucking mess - and I'm well willing to have listened to criticism - criticism that was based in truth of what happened rather than rumours and lies that is. But the reality is NOBODY has ever said anything critical to my face or anyone that was involved in exposing him (or even emailed/written to us or brought it up in a meeting). Only lies and half truths ranted at on the internet or written in disruptive, badly written articles (and incidently which accused people of things and naming them as 'grasses' without any proof or base in reality). And like I said before, for some people trolling, weird grudges and mental illness seem to be at play here rather than the facts or useful political analysis.
BTW, if you haven't read anything abut COINTELPRO I suggest you do, cos some of the stuff that has come out of this mess that from anarchists/comrades fits the bill perfectly for fulfilling that disruptive and destructive role. But I bet you have read that kinda stuff and much more besides, cos it's so so important to be obsessed with the secret state when you're SUCH hardcore anarchists that you're personally being hunted by MI5 every day...
You 'all' (or maybe it's just 1 or 2 of you with multiple personalities?) speak so bravely of beating Kennedy and his family up and such things, but since nobody with this strong views on how terrible we are (collaborators has been mentioned, pretty serious accusation I think, so step the fuck up and treat us as such next time you see us, or shut the fuck up and move on) but I kinda think since but you've not even bothered to talk to any of us, it's just that you just love being at the centre of a drama, and you're shit shirring on the internet, and are using the issue to try and reinforce your pathetic image of yourself as the 'true hardcore anarchists' not like us useless softie liberal ones. Fucking yawn.
Like I said, he'd be pretty easy to find, so step the fuck up to the mark and all your gobbing off and off you go and 'sort him out' like you've boasted you'd do like the anarchist gangsta you so wanna be. I for one would cheer like fuck if he came to a sticky end, and will even write to you in prison.
This is my last post; now please let's move on, it's exciting times in the real world, and in the scheme of things this is really fucking unimportant.
Another Anarchist
What's important?
16.11.2011 20:59
Whatever was done or not done when and by whom is in the past now.
The important thing, surely, is that he isn't going to any of your meetings anymore, he's not turning up at international gatherings and large protests and he's not in your affinity group...thankfully he's not spying on the animal rights movement for a private company either. That's all good isn't it?
Can we get on with the tasks at hand and work out what we do now?
Can we have a database detailing the exact involvement of the other undercover cops like Lyn and Marco please? This was done for Mark Kennedy's activities on powerbase but I've not seen research for any others. What about other faces from the past that disappeared suddenly, can we find out more about them?
Why aren't people writing articles about the patterns of behaviour of the undercovers and what we can learn about spotting them in future, or on assessing the damage and working out what we do about it.
What about discussing how we can prevent leaving ourselves wide open to infiltration but at the same time not become so insular that we can't trust new people.
If all we can do is snipe amongst ourselves then we deserve everything we get.
Fed up
download
17.11.2011 20:07
nn
move on means focus on the ball
17.11.2011 20:40
Repression of social movements will continue, but unless we fight hard against such operations like Kennedys, there will continue to be a rise in the use of such operations. Now is the time to keep fighting against repression, while the police are currently on the defensive for their huge muck ups. Why do no activists protest about this issue since women protested at Scotland Yard in January?
If everyone spent as much time campaigning on this issue as they do on these indymedia chats, we would be much farther along.
Don't be intimidated or afraid to act.
If you have faced state repression, please speak out loudly against it, and organise.
50-something anarchist
download (streaming link earlier in comments)
23.11.2011 13:36
And in case you missed the BBC documentary which partly featured him, the links to that are here:
and
technumpty
link here to C4 doc
23.11.2011 19:52
technumpty