RWB - Stop and Search Info

I would like to know about how we respond to cops..what do we say to them if anything when stopped?
should we challenge their right to stop us and if so how?

At climate camp we refuse to give our names but then sneaky cops pull out our credit card and say it could be stolen so demand our name?

What have people used in court that has worked about police harrassment?

You do not have to give your name - or address and there is no power to detain if you don't. If you do, it can be kept on record for 7 years, so DON'T DO IT!!!!! - see  http://www.urban75.org/mayday02/s60.html for more info - don't carry personal details, or bank cards if you can possible avoid it, it just assists them - switch your phone off if searches are taking place.....

If a cop has reasonable grounds to suspect you of anti-social behaviour, he can require you to give your details, or arrest you if you don't - (s50 Police Reform Act 2002) - see these pages from the NETCU guide for the warning that must be given:
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/images/2008/08/405411.jpg
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/images/2008/08/405412.jpg
Ask for a clear explanation of what the grounds for suspecting anti-social behaviour are - before complying.

 http://www.activistslegalproject.org.uk/climatelawguide.pdf

 http://www.activistslegalproject.org.uk/

Are you saying that if you refuse to give your details under section 60 there is nothing the PC or officer can do? That they will not take you down the station? If this is the case do you propose that anyone stopped and searched under section60 merely keeps quiet or should they tell the officer that they aren't required to give their details? Clarity on this is essential.

The linked pdf may be useful to people - I've copied it below:

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Stop and Search: Your Legal Rights

Can the police take my name and address?
It's not an offence to refuse to give the police your name and address, except if:
· you are the driver of a vehicle
· you are suspected of engaging in 'antisocial behaviour'.
Before giving your details ask what 'antisocial behaviour' they suspect you have committed, as they could well be trying it on. You can be arrested if you don't give your name and address and the police think you've committed any offence (however minor), or are about to. Again ask what offence you are supposed to have committed before giving any info.

When can the police stop and search me?
· At any time - you and your vehicle can be stopped and searched at any time if the police reasonably suspect that you've got drugs, weapons, stolen items or items (tools etc) to carry out theft, burglary orcriminal damage. Or if they reasonably suspect you are a terrorist.
· Section 60 – this search must be specifically authorised by a senior police officer. You and your vehicle can be stopped and searched for offensive weapons and dangerous instruments(eg tent poles, scissors, tools or an umbrella). They can't search for anything else or seize anything else eg address book, camera film. The police don't need any grounds to suspect that you are carrying weapons or dangerous instruments before searching you.
· Section 44 – this search must be specifically authorised by a senior officer. You and your vehicle can be searched for articles (including computers, cameras, paperwork) that could be used in connection with terrorism. Again the police don't need any reasons for the search.

The following apply to all of the above stop and search provisions:
· You don't need to give your name and address when subjected to these searches, unless you are the driver of a vehicle that is being searched.
· They can require you to remove outer clothing and they can ‘pat you down’, but this must be done by a same sex officer. They can also check your bags and pockets.
· Weapons or other items, that they are entitled to search for, can be seized.
· They must give you a form explaining why you were stopped and searched.
· It's an offence to refuse to be searched.

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"Are you saying that if you refuse to give your details under section 60 there is nothing the PC or officer can do?"

The copper will be perfectly aware that they have no legal power to force you to give details. Loads of people refused to give details at Climate Camp, and it was recorded on the forms as 'Refused' - often with a description

"That they will not take you down the station?"

Most would not - can't speak for all - but they would be exceeding their powers if they did, and it would be worth pursuing an action against the police if this happens.

"If this is the case do you propose that anyone stopped and searched under section60 merely keeps quiet or should they tell the officer that they aren't required to give their details?"

I think it is helpful to make the cops aware that you know they don't have the powers to require you to give them details. Note the exceptions - ie: if they warn you that they think you have committed an offence or if you are driving a vehicle.

"Clarity on this is essential."

Agreed

what if (as happened to me) they claim they need to remove your cards in case there's a razor blade between them & then query different names on them? (i was carrying my 4 year old son's EHIC card).

Also alot of people will need to carry cash cards and/or driving licence with them eg people paid weekly (eg benefits) who are away from home longer than a week or are driving a vehicle before during or after the camp. simply saying don't carry anything that could be used as ID isn't necessarily very useful.

Cheers thats all really useful, knowing this sort of info at leats goes someway to balancing out the power relation when faced with over zealous police. Just one thing

" think it is helpful to make the cops aware that you know they don't have the powers to require you to give them details. Note the exceptions - ie: if they warn you that they think you have committed an offence or if you are driving a vehicle.
"

Isn't a section 60 issued when the police suspect you of being involved in violence?

"Isn't a section 60 issued when the police suspect you of being involved in violence?"

No, it's issued for an area in which they (claim to) suspect violence, it's not specific to you which is why they don't need reasonable suspicion for each search.

If you have to take things that would reveal your identity you can:

-when you are informed that a search must take place put these items/wallet straight into your hand and keep it there -maybe as you start to approach a stop and search point
(you will not notice the police taking these from you during the search and then abusing their powers by finding your identity this way -I saw it happening time and time again recently, even with those warned. If you have four officers going through your pockets and stuff all at the same time you cannot control what is happening at that time, that is why they do it)

-When it gets to the point where you are asked to hand over what you have in your hand you can then say something like
I am not required to give my details to you under the powers of this search and as I have things that would reveal my details to you in my hand I am going to show you them (keeping them in hands -do not hand over) but I will cover my name etc when I show (not give) you these things.

-Then when there is nothing left in your wallet to identify you it is alright for you to hand it over for them to check for razor blades, and you will have shown your cards to the extent that it can be seen they are not offensive weapons (a broken card is considered an offensive weapon0

If the police get mobile phones/ credit cards -even membership cards in their hands the next step can be a threat of arrest for stealing these things unless you give your details. These threats can also happen for being an "illegal immigrant" if you seem to have a foreign accent
STAY STRONG
they are incriminating themselves if they say you are legally required to do anything so always ask if you are legally required to do anything they are suggesting you should do

re a different post: pat downs do not have to be done by same sex officers (Though I've never seem it done otherwise and police will let a queue of females build up rather than not do a same sex pat down when female officers aren't around). Only intimate/strip search require same sex, (which also require a private place -which is not a police van)

SOLIDARITY WITH NO COMMENT IN INTERVIEWS AND WITH-HOLDING DETAILS (even the long/short journey, how last night was...) -remember you are one of many, many more you've never met but can still give support to them with your actions

during searches it is not just an outer jacket but any other outer clothing and removal of socks and shoes can also be included.

I have been reading the articles and comments on stop and search and feel that I have to share my experiences.

I was stopped and searched by the Metropolitan police, the City police and British Transport Police on numerous occasions throughout the month of March and April, Pre and Post the G20 Summit.

They singled me out on numerous occasions when I was just going about my everyday business.

In the end it was happening so much that it became ludicrous and a joke!
I went out and bought a photo album to put all the Stop and Search papers in and I have separated them by dividers with section for PACE Section 1, Criminal justice public order act and section 44 Terrorism Act.

I devised a much better Game to play back! I can't go into detail but I have put the Police firmly in their place as I I have told them outrightly that they will never intimidate Me with their so called powers! Surprise Surprise they have left me alone ever since!

Fellow Activists- never let the Police think that they can intimidate you or that they've got the upper hand!

I have been reading the articles and comments on stop and search and feel that I have to share my experiences.

I was stopped and searched by the Metropolitan police, the City police and British Transport Police on numerous occasions throughout the month of March and April, Pre and Post the G20 Summit.

They singled me out on numerous occasions when I was just going about my everyday business.

In the end it was happening so much that it became ludicrous and a joke!
I went out and bought a photo album to put all the Stop and Search papers in and I have separated them by dividers with section for PACE Section 1, Criminal justice public order act and section 44 Terrorism Act.

I devised a much better Game to play back! I can't go into detail but I have put the Police firmly in their place as I I have told them outrightly that they will never intimidate Me with their so called powers! Surprise Surprise they have left me alone ever since!

Fellow Activists- never let the Police think that they can intimidate you or that they've got the upper hand!