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Nottingham City Council - deceptive authoritarian weasels as usual

Avoid Direct Debit | 10.02.2009 09:51

I suppose it should no longer come as a surprise when letters from local government smack of authoritarianism or deliberate attempts to deceive the public and push us around with thinly-veiled coercive language. However, the letter which I received from Nottingham City Council the other day illustrates this tactic of theirs so perfectly that I thought I should post about it here.

"Community and Culture" - who are they kidding!?
"Community and Culture" - who are they kidding!?


You see, I am a person who avoids paying for things by direct debit where at all possible.

Check the wording of the following sentence which I quote from their letter, and see what you think:

"In order to pay next year's Council Tax and make it as easy as possible you need to pay by Direct Debit."

Now, clearly NCC don't believe that members of the public are capable judges of what constitutes the "easiest" (a totally subjective evaluation at best) way of doing something! For me, it is absolutely NOT easiest to pay things like council tax (my biggest monthly bill BY FAR) by direct debit - not by a long way!

Yet, if you read that sentence quickly (as I did the first time), on the surface, it seems that you are being told:

"In order to pay next year's Council Tax [...] you need to pay by Direct Debit."

Which is of course EXACTLY what they want you to read. In fact, they probably spent at least an hour pontificating how they could word that sentence in such a way that a good proportion of people would read EXACTLY that!!

As a consequence of that one deliberate deceptively crafted sentence, I wonder how many people will feel strong-armed into setting up a direct debit when they'd really rather not? I'm fairly well educated, yet I still had to re-read it a couple of times just to make sure.

NCC have no right to tell me what I "need" to do in order to make my life easier - who do they think they are!? The only person qualified to make that decision is ME, and there are numerous reasons people like me don't pay bills by direct debit.

Because of the nature of my work (not on a regular salary), I can't always be sure how much money is in my bank account each month, so prefer to make these kind of payments manually using online banking in order to maintain some control over them.

Generally I find that staying involved in my finances, rather than automating them, gives me a much clearer picture of where I'm at each month. Direct debit may give you "total control over your payments" by some narrowly-defined way of measuring that - but in fact, by removing yourself from the process, you actually just hand over your control of it to the council. I prefer to maintain my OWN control over this, because even if it means I have to spend a bit of time on it each month (and occasionally get a reminder letter), it's worth it.

Direct debits have an annoying habit of helping you forget when monthly bills go out, meaning you mistakenly believe "I have £120 left this month" and then overnight you find your funds have been reduced to small change because of a direct debit you'd forgotten about. For people like me, this can be an absolute disaster which repeatedly lands me in debt, sometimes accrues punitive bank charges, and has on occasion even left me unable to afford food. All of this can be easily avoided, if only I stay involved in the process.

Even a standing order is less problematic, just as easy to set up for a fixed amount regular monthly bill like council tax, and allows you to automate the process while still staying involved in it enough to change things if you need to. Standing order is INFINITELY preferable to direct debit for bills like this, but personally, I still prefer to trigger everything manually.

"Avoid the crunch and help yourself", they say at the top of their letter? I fail to see how allowing multiple chances each year of a completely automated process putting me in more debt overnight without my being aware of it is likely to help!

No, direct debit is not about helping the poor public avoid the credit crunch - it is about helping BUSINESS avoid the credit crunch.

Ultimately, businesses love direct debit because it allows them to better predict their own input of money. This is because predictable and automatic billing methods REMOVE control from the public and puts it in the hands of business. They want to make it harder and harder for people not to pay by direct debit, and give us the impression that we "have" to pay our bills their way. Not only that, but they are desperate to convince us that this somehow works in OUR OWN interests!?

Some companies (case in point, Virgin Media, AKA. "total and utter bastards") even charge customers a £4 a month "administrative fee" for not paying by direct debit. As if me triggering an electronic payment each month creates more work for them than if they trigger it? No, it's all about control - THEIR control over OUR money.

Direct debit may work well for some people (probably those who aren't in much debt, who are on a regular salary which always covers all of their monthly expenses), but for people on lower incomes and people with debt problems, especially during a recession, direct debit spells disaster. We need to refuse it all the way, before - in the future cashless society that government wishes to create - it becomes the only way of paying bills.

(Of course, you may have guessed that with me posting on this site, I have a rather different vision of a future cashless society - one in which things like banks and bills don't even exist, because community takes their place.)

So I won't be taking NCC up on their uninvited and incorrect diktat of how I can pay my bills more easily, and now I have one more reason - because some unaccountable bureaucrat is being paid for by us to try and trick us into doing what is best for business. (No surprises there!)

Avoid Direct Debit

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Good idea to pay them all on one day of the month,Nottm law centre used

10.02.2009 14:25

to be best place to get debt advice,but dont have a advisor at the moment. CitizensAdBureau on carrington street is good, but are always very busy & so is Bullwell advice centre & many others 4-5wks for both.
Robin Hood chase centre on the robin hood chase near the Sparrow anarchist centre can book you in within a week if you ring on mondays only to book.9506867
Framework housing on beech avenue do debt advice near the sumac centre on tuesday 12-2pm, you may have to register with them check . 9788348
The training centre opposite crocus say they will have a debt advisor soon.

Personally my most significant saving was with getting a water meter recently, but Iam currently living mostly singely.

You do not have to let bailiffs in at all, though if you open door & they get a foot in it becomes very grey, so dont open the door to them whatever they say. National legal Precedents were set on bailiff entry by Steve Beonoris,Sh@kedown-forest lodge org@niser& financial advisor for Nottingham Law centre RIP.

If you have serious problems then get a download a section 6 legal notice & squat a empty property, though if on your own or not organised this can be a very hard option. I lasted out 7 years or so doing this, but it can be hard work, you are responsible for maintaining everything yourself & are often considered outlawed by the authorities.

Green Syn


YAWN

19.02.2009 11:43

Boring. You sound like a Daily Mail reading Tory to me - complaining about public sector 'bureaucrats' trying to 'control' your money. Why don't you vote for Cameron in the next election. He will slash public spending and then you won't have to give as much of your precious dollar to the 'authoritarian' council.

Hacksaw Jim Duggin bin thuggin


Sorry you don't like my tone, Hacksaw

20.02.2009 14:49

To "Hacksaw Jim Duggin bin thuggin" above:

Sorry you don't like my tone, but you are dead wrong in your assumptions about me.

How did you deduce that I'm a Daily Mail reading Tory from me saying things like "I have a rather different vision of a future cashless society - one in which things like banks and bills don't even exist, because community takes their place" - beats me!?

I don't have a problem with council tax (or any tax) per se. Until the current capitalist system collapses and is abolished, it seems like probably just about the fairest way of running things.

Still, government at all levels wastes tax money on things like wars, surveillance, databases, propping up failing businesses, a political police force, and countless other things. Meanwhile, corporations and the ultra rich use legal loopholes to avoid paying billions in taxes every year, so the tax system is inherently broken and rips off those at the bottom.

If I knew that tax was being collected fairly across the board, and used to support people and communities rather than bankrolling capitalists and warmongers or paying for the creation of a police state, then I'd be queuing up to happily pay my dues. No word of a lie.

The entire of my problem in this article is with the way the council are clearly trying to coerce and trick people into believing they have to pay their council tax by direct debit, when this is not the case at all.

Besides, how many skint Tories do you know? I'm anarchist all the way, which is a large part of why I have little money and therefore avoid direct debit. Bollocks to the Tories - Nobody gets my vote every time!

Avoid Direct Debit


DD (& Contactless and ALL the Electronic Debt Money Sysm) Sucks

19.04.2015 21:15

Banks like DD because its all about you losing control of your finances and so going overdrawn or exceeding your overdraft and incurring charges. Businesses like it because it puts them in control over your payments, its more difficult for you to dispute than the old way of paying a bill when you get it, (Note although you can reverse a DD amount that has been taken by asking your bank, now that the charging business has your account details they can if they want to simply re-instate the DD amount and you've got to see and reverse it AGAIN). With a few unscrupulous businesses (unless you watch) they can get away with overcharging you. Even worse energy companies like the monthly DD "spread your payments" because they work it so you build up a substantial credit balance with them over time. Then you have to ask them for a refund! (if you are concientious and vigilant). Note this is a FREE LOAN! Business lenders CHARGE for lending money! Note EBICO (part of SSE) one of the very few energy providers charges the same to all consumers whether you pay by cash, cheque or DD- No coercion. Same for Post Office Homephone (landline and broadband). I am with both.
Same for contactless cards, its all about getting you to lose control over your spending, you wave a card rather than part with actual paper and metal objects which you see leaving your purse/wallet so you're more conscious of how much you're spending because every now and then you have to get more out of the wall. Also with contactless you lose your card and people can use it quite a few times on £20 ish purchases before they have to enter a PIN. Then you've got to ASK your bank to reinstate the fraudulent payments (which they can refuse if they subjectively believe you have been negligent) which you would never have had to do if you'd lost the old type debit card, usless to anyone for in-person payments without the PIN. Governments probably like it too and have not forced the banks to allow us non-contactless cards if we want them, because its more likely we'll spend more and so grow this (hopeless & collapsing) debt, speculation and consumption based economy again
BY THE WAY if you hate contactless and want to disable it simply make 2 or 3 4-5mm cuts into the card from 2 or 3 of the 4 edges- this cuts the RFID antennae inside the plastic and if you (or a fraudster) waves your card over a reader your card won't answer with your account details. (One cut is probably enough, but I do 2 or 3 to make sure) BUT IT STILL WORKS FINE the old CHIP CONTACT way inserted into the card reader where you enter your PIN. This really is full-proof- I am an electronics and telecomms engineer and I have done it with 2 cards and tested it. See here  http://hackaday.com/2014/08/23/disabling-tap-to-pay-debit-cards/ (There are many other instructions on-line) (Note the contactless function won't be reinstateable, unless you get a new card).
LASTLY (and this will be hard to believe for many) DID YOU KNOW only 3% of money circulating is cash the remaining 97% is electronic- just numbers in our bank accounts which you see flash up when you check your balance and which move around the our banks computer accounts when we use our cards, cheques, CHAPS payments, DDs (yuck) etc. And banks CREATE the money they "lend" electronically when they make "loans". Contrary to what most politicians, journalists and even many economists believe (and have been taught in their textbooks) and tell us- banks DO NOT have to obtain the money they "lend" from savers or borrow it themselves, its all created electronically. Loans create deposits not the other way round! And it disappears again into accounting nothingness when we "repay". So for us to have a circulating medium "money" we HAVE TO (collectively) be in debt!!! Thats why the politicians all want to get the banks "lending" again, though the vast majority (80%+) of them don't understand lending creates money. Of the few that do many of even these believe there are still tight constrains on how much banks can create when they "lend", but actaully almost all of the constrains have been removed over the last 40 years under de-regulation, and so hence an explosion in our collective indebtness (and the ongoing economic collapse). There are a FEW politicians who DO understand how money REALLY works and have gone on the record eg the MPs Steve Baker (Con), Michael Meacher (Lab) and economists Professors Richard Werner, Charles Goodhart, Jem Bendell, Victoria Chick, Steve Keen etc. But most of them (and the vast majority of us too) don't know- their "knowledge" just comes from mainstream beliefs and assumptions that think banks have to get the "money" (computer numbers) from somewhere that they "lend". For comprehensive videos, quotes, documents and all the proof you need see the British Campaigning Group "Positive Money" www.positivemoney.org And join the campaign and sign the petition. (There are also many many groups in other countries also campaigning for the private banks to have this ridiculous priviliege removed from them and for Governments and nationally owned central banks only to be able to do this- as almost all of the public assumes is already the case!).

Tony
mail e-mail: tonyharvey60@gmail.com