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Bristol Indymedia and "the world we are striving to create"

freethepeeps aka Roy Bard | 27.06.2013 01:11 | Indymedia

"Bristol indymedia is intended to represent the world we are striving to create, rather than the world we live in".

Fine words indeed, but do they mean anything?


Thanks to our most prolific troll, tensions between Bristol Indymedia and this site are once again on the agenda. Their recent article Indymedia UK : It’s time to move on has not gone the same way as another recent article Syria - a call to action, which was hidden as "Not Bristol Related" despite the fictitious claim that it was authored by a Bristolian.

Nor have the Bristol mods hidden an article which falsely claims that"a petition from hundreds of Bristol people making clear we regard Julian as a hero of the people who deserves unqualified support" was delivered to the Ecuadorian Embassy. Referring to that article, one IMC uk mod noted:

"The comments section is peppered with posts clearly submitted by trolls. I strongly suspect that the original post was put up for this purpose - to provide a vehicle for subsequent trolling".

So, why does Bristol IMC hide some lies and not others? In theory it should be easy to find out. As an affiliated IMC, they have signed up to the Indymedia Principles of Unity (POU) which includes the principle that;

All IMC's recognize the importance of process to social change and are committed to the development of non-hierarchical and anti-authoritarian relationships, from interpersonal relationships to group dynamics. Therefore, shall organize themselves collectively and be committed to the principle of consensus decision making and the development of a direct, participatory democratic process] that is transparent to its membership.

Yet emails go ignored, decisions are not explained and their list, unlike that of by far the majority of Indymedia lists remains closed, so that it is not possible to read the archives if you are not signed up to the list.

"This is a closed list, which means your subscription will be held for approval. You will be notified of the list moderator's decision by email. This is also a hidden list, which means that the list of members is available only to the list administrator".

It is surely a cause for reflection, to wonder how a project dedicated to Open Publishing has allowed itself to become a closed group who operate without transparency, and who seem to have a liking for trolling and invented news. It would also be more in line with the POU if they fixed their hidden functions, so that it is possible to view articles and comments that have been hidden. But despite it being pointed out for years that the system is not transparent, no explanation is given and the malfunction continues.

IMC uk strives to check the veracity of posts to the wire, and will not knowingly let lies stay up as news. Our lists remain open, and we are open to discussing concerns that people may have about the way we mod, so long as the discussions take place on the appropriate list. This is therefore an invitation to Bristol IMC to reflect on what they are doing and to engage in a discussion about how to deal with the trolling, so that the news wires can indeed focus on representing the world we are striving to create.

freethepeeps aka Roy Bard

Additions

Articles now hidden

27.06.2013 23:27


@22:46 on the Bristol thread, 'One of Bristol IMC' wrote: "Hi FTP I just checked the email list moderation queue for the first time in weeks. I have approved your emails now and will take a look at the posts you have issue with"

The Indymedia UK : It’s time to move on has now been hidden with the reason given as "Accuracy. Not by BTM, not hidden on http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/02/506637.html", and the Bristol support for Julian Assange article has also been hidden, with the reason given as "Accuracy"

.

freethepeeps


Comments

Hide the following 11 comments

Not helping the tensions

27.06.2013 07:29

So you're worried about "tensions between Bristol Indymedia and this site" so you write an article essentially slagging off Bristol's moderation process. Seems like you're feeding the trolling.

Just saying


@Just saying

27.06.2013 08:04

"So you're worried about "tensions between Bristol Indymedia and this site" so you write an article essentially slagging off Bristol's moderation process. Seems like you're feeding the trolling."

Attempts were made to communicate directly with Bindy mods via their closed list, and they were told that an article would appear on the newswire if they didn't respond:

freethepeeps at riseup.net freethepeeps at riseup.net
Tue Jun 25 18:11:25 BST 2013
"If Bindy leaves this up - then I will post directly to the IMC uk newswire
about it, as the closed list at Bristol means there is NO TRANSPARENCY and
therefore no way of working out what Bindy mods are doing....."
 https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/2013-June/001274.html

freethepeeps at riseup.net freethepeeps at riseup.net
Tue Jun 25 20:55:48 BST 2013
"If the troll is to be allowed to bring the dispute out onto the boards,
then it isn't just Bristol that is affected......."
 https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/2013-June/001277.html

freethepeeps at riseup.net freethepeeps at riseup.net
Wed Jun 26 11:00:42 BST 2013
"Well, they have hidden the imperialistic propaganda, yet appear to have
chosen to keep up the article attributed to btm - and clearly written by
2sam.

Perhaps they, like the troll relish the prospect of board wars.....

I am in the process of writing an article for our newswire - along the
lines of "Bindymedia - the go to site for smears, lies and invented news"
 https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/2013-June/001280.html

freethepeeps at riseup.net freethepeeps at riseup.net
Wed Jun 26 23:10:08 BST 2013
"ok - so now they have fixed their contact page and publishing, but still
the article remains up.

Will publish my article tomorrow.

Of course the discussion should be taking place on list but they seem
determined to have it on the news-wire, so I guess I'll have to oblige"
 https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/2013-June/001282.html

Furthermore, this isn't the first time that Bindy have kept up false attacks on IMC uk

See the thread "Trolling on Bristol Indymedia" here:  https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/2012-December/date.html

You got any better suggestions?


freethepeeps aka Roy Bard


Meh, give me sunshine instead.

27.06.2013 11:11

Attempt number 1,134 at disrupting the IMC newswrie.

Lets have a revolution instead.

anon e-mouse.


attempts were made...?

27.06.2013 15:36

The commenter above, who claims to be ftp (but may just be a troll trying to cause rifts) says that attempts were made to communicate before publishing this, but the earliest is dated only 2 days ago. When communicating with an organisation run by volunteers, isn't it polite to wait more than 2 days for a reply before airing dirty laundry in public? Maybe a week would have been more reasonable?

Having said all that, it does annoy me too when some IMCs have closed list archives - only really justifiable for a few specific lists (eg legal, contact) in my opinion.

anonymous


re: attempts were made

27.06.2013 15:41

Yes - attempts have been made over a long period of time.

If you want to see some of them then read the thread "more trolling on Bristol MC" from here:  https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/2012-December/001055.html to here:  https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/2012-December/001088.html

keep clicking 'next message' till you're finished.

This is simply a repeat of that......

freethepeeps


re: attempts were made

27.06.2013 16:23

ftp: I've had a quick look at the Dec thread you linked to, and as far as I can see the contentious articles from that time are now hidden.

I can understand your frustration with how long it took for them to get hidden, especially since they were spreading malicious lies about IMC UK admins.

But I still don't really see how the Dec incident, in which the disinfo was (eventually!) hidden, means that it's fair to only give BIMC less than 48hrs notice this time round, before going public?

I mean, I can see how it creates a context in which you would find it hard to assume good faith, but if you're serious about avoiding a public conflict it still seems fairer to allow more time for a reply.

Indymedia as a concept and a movement is bigger than any one IMC. Petty fights like this are exactly what 2sam and co want.

anonymous


plenty of time to act/reply

27.06.2013 16:52

the julian assange post was put up on 18 june. i reported it twice via the online form, on 18 and 19 June, the second time explaining that i'd checked the facts and had established that no petition was received as the article claimed.

i've had no response whatsoever and no moderator action has been taken to deal with either this inaccurate post or the obvious trolling of the comments thread.

when i sent an email on 25 june
 https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/2013-June/001275.html
i got an automated response to say that my message had been held for moderation and:

"Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive notification of the moderator's decision."

i've still had no response, the post is still up, the comments are all still there.


genny


But its not fair :-(

27.06.2013 16:58

at 15:41 'anonymous' wrote: "But I still don't really see how the Dec incident, in which the disinfo was (eventually!) hidden, means that it's fair to only give BIMC less than 48hrs notice this time round, before going public? "

It isn't just 2 days - the Assange lie petition was posted on June 18th.

Requests to hide or explain reasons for not hiding were ignored:  https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/2013-June/001275.html

As you note they took time last time, this time they might take just as long, but its not as if they' ve been inactive and haven't seen the messages:  https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/2013-June/001282.html

And the issues are EXACTLY the same as they were in November/December. They're quick enough to hide other stuff as 'non sw related' - so how is a Notts Indymedia article from January news, and how is it 'sw related'? How is the lie about the Assange petition news and why is it still up?#

They might like to leave the smears up in public for a month while they dilly-dally about - but they then have to deal with threads like this. I'm predicting it won't last a month on their site...... because my main point is they lack transparency - so unless they engage with the thread we'll never know.

freethepeeps


hmm OK

27.06.2013 17:07

"It isn't just 2 days - the Assange lie petition was posted on June 18th."

OK, fair enough. The 2 day figure just came from the email excerpts posted from ftp - I had no idea that people had contacted them before that.

I'm still left with the feeling that this all just plays into 2sam's hands though, but I can see where you're coming from.

anonymous


where I'm coming from

27.06.2013 17:14

I'd like Bristol to make it transparent how they intend to deal with these posts. The historic indications are clear that they tend to be trolling, and that they are disruptive to both sites.On IMC uk whencomplaints about Bristol have been posted, they have been hidden almost immediately - as 'non news/complaint about moderation on another site'.

And the problem has simply gone away.

On Bristol they fester gathering troll comments for weeks, and then the whole cycle gets repeated. So, where I'm coming from is that I am looking for a resolution that is in accordance with the POU.

And the opportunity to spend all of our time doing more fruitful stuff would be good.

freethepeeps


Hidden comments on this thread

28.06.2013 00:02

really ? has been hidden as non news/complaint about moderation/disruptive poster. The views of Bristol people to your advice has been hidden as non news/inaccurate/disruptive poster - the poster does not explain how they are qualified to speak on behalf of 'Bristol people' - nor do they address the issue that a number of the comments come from the same person. one question has been hidden as non news/personal attack.

The Editorial Guidelines note that "Comments are subject to the guidelines for hiding". If you are unhappy with these decisions then feel free to raise them on the appropriate list.

Perhaps that is why this thread is more pleasant that the corresponding one on Bindy, which despite its aim to "represent the world we are striving to create, rather than the world we live in", seems to be ignoring it's own respect guideline. The troll may well be feeding their egos - but they are mistaken if they think it really is a friend of Bindy.

Edited to add: Bristol has now hidden the article under the pretext of "banned user" - so the comments are no longer viewable, although some of them were hidden separately. Nothing has been done transparently.

freethepeeps


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