We really need to start an awareness campaign right now.

The problem is that in light of the current situation people are showing strong support for the ID cards and the government are using this to justify a whole range of dodgy measures. They are also planning on restricting the right of asylum seekers from appealing decisions that go against them. We have no illusions, once you give the State some of your rights, they are not going to just hand them back!

Anyone up for starting some sort of 'No ID' group? It will be too late if we wait to start a 'tear up your id card' group!

email:  carnivalista@yahoo.com

Fuck ID cards.
Yes we need to start an awareness campaign, now. I'm up for doing something.
I remember a couple of years ago (i can't quite remember what the issue was) a collegue of mine at the time was saying that he had no problem with ID cards because "if you're not doing anything wrong....".
I simply replied by saying that I didn't use a wallet and I didn't like the idea of having to carry something around 24/7 to prove who I am. What if he (my collegue) were to nip out to the shops with a tenner in his hand but no ID card cos his wallet was in the house?
He couldn't respond. Fair comment.
I think that people are less gulable than some people think and that, once aware of the implications of introducing ID cards, they will reject them.
We can all, like the poll tax, simply not accept them.
Fuck em.
Tell em to fuck off.
What they gonna do, put us ALL in jail?
Fuck em!
Love and Rage....and, once more....Fuck em!

Hell, yes - if the same three million who wouldn't pay the poll tax won't carry Blunkett's poxy cards, what can they do about it?

Go to the bbc website:

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point/newsid_1560000/1560506.stm

Where there is a public forum on ID cards - most saying "if they got nothing to hide..." almost like a mantra so here is a chance to add your views

Identity cards are always their favourite, not because
they are any good, but because they sound innocuous.
In fact it's not the card that's the problem (and this
is where people get deliberately misled), it is the huge
database on the other side of it recording all
facts and, more importantly, suspicions.
Any policeman would have a right to stop you and look at
your card. What's the problem with that? you say. Fine.
He can look at your face, can't he? Is that not enough?
Your card will have a photograph of you on it,
so why does he need to look at that too?
What he's actually going to do is swipe the
card with a barcode pen and a note will go on
your record in the database saying where you were,
what you were doing, and when you were stopped by
this policeman. This policeman will then be
automatically notified of anything "interesting" on
the file. He will check his electronic notepad, and
maybe come to ask: "Didn't your brother once get arrested
damaging GM crops last summer? We need to find him again.
How would you like to come down to the station with me so
we can have a word with you about it?"
And if you say, "Get lost!" that fact will be entered
into the database in your file, and the next time you meet
them there will be four policemen around you, because they
don't want any trouble.

The real criminals and terrorists will carry
forged/stolen cards so all their activity
will get shoved into your records and never cleaned up,
just like with credit ratings.

There is bit of room to compromise, though.
I would be happy for the police to impose
identity cards on the public and be able to track
them everywhere they go, so long as the public
had the right to spy on the police and
track everywhere they are going, what
weapons they are carrying and everything
scrap of nonsense they have written in their
"secret" database.

I am sure if they have nothing to hide, they would
gladly agree to this condition.

I dislike ID cards as much as the next person but before we all get sucked into some time-wasting "micro" campaign we should note that several EU countries have ID cards already (even Britain had them during WWII). That civil liberties and police attitudes vary hugely country to country shows ID cards have nothing to do with it. By the same token, there is no less crime in those countries so nor will ID cards help general policing.

If they are introduced they will almost certainly be tied to validating benefits, employment rights and even financial services like credit cards, so boycotting will not be an option for most people. It will be probably be an automatic criminal offence for non-production too.

As Britain still allows people to drive without even carrying a driving licence - even America doesn't do that - perhaps we should just accept this one and get on with more significant issues.

I was searched under Section 61 (I think that's right ?..) the day after the main DSEI demo. We were outside the tube station where the arms dealers and delegates were going into the conference centre. The officer searched my wallet - which we had been told was illegal... and said he was looking for weapons like razor blade. He seemed oblivious of the rather conspicuous destroyer parked on the Thames!!!

He then asked me if the wallet was mine. I wasn't cooperating.. I said 'I don't have to answer that'.. so he arrested me on suspicion of having stolen it. This was totally ludicrous since my photos were on the cards inside!. I was dearrested shortly after he confirmed my identity.

This brought it home to me how dangerous ID cards would be. The police are already using things like Section 61 for state surveillance / intelligence reasons and not to prevent violence. We were also followed by photographers and video camera men. The danger of ID cards is that in a state of 'national emergency' the state will suspend habeus corpus and preemptively arrest dissidents. As well as opposing ID cards, we need to campaign for strict controls and trasparency on what happens to the data that police collect.

The previous comment is spot on when it says ID cards have no possible benefit in combating terrorism. They will be used against asylum seekers and illegal immigrants, and will generally increase the amount of controls and interference. If legislation got passed on the back of the attacks in America, we should oppose it by all non-violent means.





I'll never carry ID on a demo again.

It's a hard one this, I agree with a lot of the comments here, but it must be added for 'the don't get one / or don't carry it lobby' that in EU countries such as Germany, if you are arrested you have to identify yourself, either by passport if you are a Brit or ID card if you are a national in other EU countries which have them.

The argument, I predict will be on whether the cops go for the full monty; DNA, thumbprint, as well as photo. Personally I cannot see them getting any further than the photo which will render it similar to the passport. I can't imagine the majority of pensioners being impressed by being treated like crims in order that their thumprint goes on their card, let alone their DNA. For the time being at least the state will have to settle for an alternative passport.

When I was in Germany in July I witnessed the police harrassing people re id cards. Mostly they would pick on the 'punks' or any groups of young people, force them to hand over their ID note them down and then move on.

These people hadn't done anything wrong, the police were simply making it known that 'we now know who you are'.

Also in Germany you have to tell the authorities when you move to a new location.

Do we want that? It is not right to be constantly monitored. The 'if you haven't done anything wrong..' argument is rubbish. As far as the state is concerned being an 'activist' is a criminal offence and they want to know who you are and why you are doing it so they can stop you before the next demo.

Imagine if we had a law that we must carry ID cards. The police Section 60 us, if we don't have our ID we've broken the law (whereas now we don't technically have to give them our names) and they get our names or we aren't released. They then like they've done to members of the wombles, rts, and numerous other groups, threaten you if you plan on going on other demos.

This is an abhorent invasion of civil liberties and must be stopped.

This issue brings home the truth about the state/capital really. On the hand they'll loosen the ties of government for the benefit of big business then tighten the noose on the citizenry. Anyway who still believes that state is their for 'our' benefit is fooling themselves.

Weve just been issued new ID cards at work with a bar code - we have to use it to get into the buildings (security, fire etc) but it could be used to find out what time we arrived at work etc (its not I work in the IT dept and we cant be bothered with the work AND the Union wouldnt stand for it).

However if a tiny university can do this what could the Government do - A barcode is all they need to link the card to their database on us - and then they start to make you swipe when you enter certain buildings - so they know where we have been (together with the 58million invested in new CCTV cameras) and possibly what we did

Look - IDs are bullshit. If they're ever introduced I will refuse to use them. Everyone else should as well. Fuck IDs and fuck the police state. Shove em up Tony's arse, or slap IDS over the head with em' : the only two good things ID cards are useful for.

Note the irony - the move to erode civil liberties being done in the name of upholding "freedom and democracy".

Spokesperson, for Movement For Justice (www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~justice), Alex Owolade, says "We will not tolerate government using the attack in New York as a cover to undermine what little civil rights we have".

Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, ratified by Britain, states: "No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his [sic] privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his [sic] honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attack".

RESIST!

Only a state that doesn't trust its citizens would even think about compulsory ID cards.

fight for the little freedom you have, and don't let go. where I live (israel) IDs are the obvious thing - you must carry it on you if you're over 18, and every security guard would ask you to show it if you wanted to get in train stations or bus stations or whatever. actually I was surprised to find out that in some countries people don't have to carry their IDs on them whenever they leave home. we don't have fingerprints or DNA info on it, it's more like a passport, but even so it sucks. make sure that you fight it before it happens, because nobody fights what seems natural to them.