Recruit, Sell! The SWP issues war cry!

the radical tabloid conciousness

01.10.2001 22:23

the swp has an uncanny ability to step in and usurp every humanitarian campaign by judicious use of words and slogans to be used for banner waving on the front line with their imprint always in view in every newsworthy campaign.
the upfront swp presence seems to turn every worthwhile cause to dust.
there is always an affront there to the sun/mail/telegraph bigot while appealing to a small collection of vague lefties and students looking for a home
i know - ive been there myself for brief periods in the dim past
perhaps it is useful to consider that those somewhere up at the top of the swp pyramid (not the guy on the street or even the mouthpieces) are a part of the globalisation/nwo thing
- trying to reign in the opposition for co-option or suppression

dwight heet

what??

01.10.2001 23:29

Who the F are you? - and what are you doing??

Your analysis is sa pile of poo!!

See you on the barricades.

AC

Andy C
mail e-mail: andy@a-coles.demon.co.uk

by the way

01.10.2001 23:58

By the way

Uno = 1

We are many, they are few

Get a life!!

andy c
mail e-mail: andy@a-coles.demon.co.uk

Sell the party, build the paper

02.10.2001 00:12

Yeah, but Andy, you've got to admit the SWP communique does make you all look like pricks.

It certainly made me think twice about the Stop the War coalition - is it about stopping the war or recruitment and SWP brand recognition? If it's about stopping the war why insist on SWP speakers at every event?

I'm sorry in a sense to be carrying on the whole SWP/GR thing that's cropping up on IMC, to me the SWP et al are totally alien to the movement I'm a part of, so why increase their egos with slanging matches, but for god's sake, you lot don't half ask for it.

Ok, to be fair, the leadership ask for it. The tragedy is most SWP/GR members are very genuine people who will end up getting disillusioned with all the paper selling orders from above nonsense and drop out of politics altogether, rather than move on to anti-authoritarian groups.

the icepick kid

Paper Selling Orders

02.10.2001 10:39

Democratic centralism is a principle focused on by the swp but it just doesn't seem to fit with my experience of the organisation. As already highlighted both arguments draw out valuable points, firstly as you can see from the first article the party and its growth is the only consistant factor. Being told to constantly build the party can be very tiresome when your just a ' student looking for a home '. Although that gives me away I feel that the swp have a role to play in that there isi always a place for agitators so to speak. In Nice I was very impressed by the parties vocal and visible presence, as they added some much needed fire and steel to the british contingent. However this factor is also what alienates th party and its members from other individuals and organisations. This passion often leads to a hasty dismissal of other methods and lack of tolerance in so far as ' don't talk to him he's a nationalist ' there all just ' writing letters. This couple with the view of other organisations being recruiting grounds rather than an opportunity to exchang ideas and methods. the issues and ideas of the parties hierarchy are always the core of the whole organisation. I feel that for all their off putting faults the swp do bring another large presence in the anti- capitalis movement especially where the SSP, CND and the green organistions all enjoy good relations. remember resistence is fertile .

Bobby Sosa
mail e-mail: andymc@thearches.co.uk

Who's side are you on?

02.10.2001 11:13

Oh great.

Somebody gets hold of an internal SWP mailing, and posts it on the indymedia site so that every one can have a laugh at what the SWP is saying internally.

A great joke isn't it?

Except it isn't a joke. What sort of activist would publish another organisation's internal mailings. Just when the state is openly talking about massive clamp downs on civil rights, on the eve of a war, and no doubt persecution of anti-war activists - and you publish this mailing.

Did you not think that openly publishing a document filled with names of activists, plans for the future and contact details for comrades is an incredibly stupid thing to do?

I would never forward details from other organisations onto the web. Activists should at least respect other activists and their point of view. Lets have the political arguments in public, but this sort of activity might not be dangerous now, but could be disastorous in the future.

Think before you act.

Martin E
mail e-mail: swpmre@yahoo.com

I am a member

02.10.2001 12:05

I published an internal SWP memo that I received as a member of the SWP who is pissed off with being told to sell papers, stand in the rain with stupid petitions and use every cause to recruit and make money. I joined the party because I am anti-capitalist and anti-authority. All I've had since joining is an endless stream of dictates from a closed hierarchy and meetings designed to brain-wash rather than debate. The memo I published here was disgusting. Compassion for Afghans and a thorough analysis was replaced by a profit motive and a few gimmicky slogans. I don't have any control over the party I pay my subs to, so now I will expose the SWP for what it is and perhaps this will force you to become more open and democratic. The beauty of it is that you don't know which one of your members is doing this. I am the fly in the ointment.

Uno

have you heard of echelon?

02.10.2001 12:25

every e-mail, phone call, fax etc in and out of this country (and probably most within) go through a system called echelon which allows the US/UK establishments to monitor communications for key words, and closely examine those that stand out. if SWP is a threat, it will be monitored. if an individual is a threat, they will be monitored. there are probably 1-2 million people in this country on file at GCHQ etc.

and you really believe that the intelligence services turn to indymedia to find out what the SWP are saying to each other? wake up!

or is your complaint really about the rest of us finally seeing in black and white how self serving the SWP agenda is? oh dear. again, please, wake up. we diverse human race have a world to win, not a dirge-like party to build.

thank you

zedhead

try defending the memo

02.10.2001 13:17

Good try at a counter attack Martin but lets see if you or anyone else can defend that memo. It shows

1. The SWP give orders to its members, treating like simpletons.

2. Attempts to infiltrate other groups with the sole purpose of expanding its own power and membership.

3. Regards success only in terms of how many naive students they can press gang into joining or how many grimmy newspapers they can sell.

simon

Could we have a defintion of sectarian please

02.10.2001 13:52

THe phrase sectarians is used in the SWP 'orders to' refer to people that should be prevented from forming anti-war coalition committees.

What does sectarian mean, could someone from the SWP enlighten us?

Does it mean in Marx's classic definition someone who puts the interests of their own organisation before the interest of the movement?

Mmmm excluding people because they disagree, or are smaller or to the left of the SWP because they might get in the way of the recruitment drive..... strikes me that would be somewhat sectarian according to Marx.

So perhaps the real sectarians are the people who call others sectarians.

Oh shit that means I'm one too, and I'm not a member of anything!!!

OUTSECT

SWP - the truth at last

02.10.2001 14:13

Some poor inncoents can get suckered into thinking that the SWP works with other groups to organise events and mobilise folk; even that their paper-selling could in some way be seen as free speech and an understandable desire to argue their case.

Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. Here are the true facts:

1. The SWP was founded in 1973 as part of a secret plan cooked up between MI5, the CIA, the KGB, Mossad and the Tufty Club.

2. Its aim is to demoralise and 'turn' the vast numbers of people who effectively oppose capitalism and imperialism by smoking spliffs and saying 'tut' at the news, by luring them into diversionary activities like demos and marches.

3. All SWP members agree upon joining to have a small clockwork Trotsky inserted in their brain who will self-destruct if they ever deviate from 'building the Party'. This is why no SWP members have jobs or kids or ever laugh, dance or have sex.

4. Many trade union activists have some respect for the SWP and even read their paper; thus proving what sell-outs the SWP are, since we all know trade unions are bourgeois tools and trade unionists are tabloid-reading knuckle-dragging morons without the political sophistication prevalent among the better class of anti-capitalist.

5. Anyone attending Globalise Resistance or Anti-Nazi League meetings will note that they are asked to sign in. For further info? No; so that at a later date the SWP can replace you with a clone designed in one of their vast Leninist robot factories under the North Pole.

6. All the SWP leadership are giant alien lizards under the direct control of Yog-Sothoth, an alien deity from the Outer Realms.

So now you know.

a nonny mouse

Some home truths about the SWP

02.10.2001 16:13

Yeah, very funny.

This document gives some real insight into how the SWP think and I think it's good that people can read it and judge the SWP on this. Some interesting points - they claim to be 'Leninist' by seeing the main enemy as being their own imperialist government. That is indeed the Leninist position, but it's not the SWP's - they vote for the british government and talk about Bush's war when British troops are actively involved in the front line of this war.

A particularly funny bit is when they say "We also need to become the voice of the oppressed masses across the globe who will be the victims of Bush & Blair’s war". This tiny British sect, in true imperialist style, want to become the voice of people they have no connection with and who have been oppressed by British troops, banks, companies for decades.

Think about the arrogance of that. Racism is not too strong a word for the contempt it displays for the non-white majority of the world.

person

Be reasonable

02.10.2001 16:57

Be reasonable about this. The SWP aren't racist by any stretch, at least not in my experience as a SWP member. Most grassroots SWPers don't hate other groups, are fairly open-minded and want to take a positive role in changing the world. Like me, they see SWP as having a leading (but not a monopolistic) role in organising struggle and being a prominent and intelligent voice (but not the only one). The only thing most SWPers are guilty of is naivitie, which is not helped by the kind of banal, tabloid politics expressed in the Socialist Worker.

The leadership is totally different. It's less concerned with increasing awareness and providing information than producing an endless stream of moronic slogans, organising pointless actions (petitioning the government is perhaps the most stupid thing the SWP do), recruiting as many members as possibly by jumping on any bandwagon that passes by, ordering members around and often over-working them, and selling the Socialist Worker newspaper.
I've been a SWP member since the Marxism 2000 conference anbd the pressure is always on to work full-time for the SWP, with meetings once or twice a week on top of selling papers on a Saturday and even in the workplace (if I did that, my colleagues would think I was a complete prick). Meanwhile, no-one is allowed to challenge the party machine or hierarchy and some of the ill-conceived tactics and policies it employs. For instance, I don't believe in infiltrating other groups, press-ganging people in university corridors or even campaigning in the general election for the Socialist Alliance or the Labour Party (which is hardly revolutionary). I'm a Marxist, but that doesn't mean I can't make my own decisions or that I can't find common cause with anarchists or greens (who are far more approachable than the party leadership). Christ, I don't even have a say on who is elected to the party leadership and I don't even know who they are.

This stupidity has got to stop. Rather than disbanding the SWP, it should be radically reformed and opened up to self-scrutiny and democracy. I will publish everything about what's going on in the SWP on IMC as someone who believes the SWP could be something far better than a shabby band of Stalin wannabes.

Uno

I sort of agree

02.10.2001 18:11

I agree with a lot of what you say - it would be ridiculous to say that SWP members are all racist or that all of them - including the many mentioned in the original posting here as having just joined the SWP - are all hardened manipulators like the SWP leadership.

But that doesn't mean I can't point out that, and I'm trying to be very precise here, the comment in the SWP document is pretty racist. How can the SWP want to speak on behalf of peoples throughout the world they have no connection with and who have had enough British people bossing them about and exploiting them already? It's quite a give away remark because it betrays the arrogance that the SWP is based on. When has a movement in the south ever sought to speak on behalf of the British people?

The trouble is that the SWP, like other sects, religious or otherwise, are well organised and put a lot of energy into recruting so they get people then burn them out. We can't do anything about that. What we can do is be shit loads better at providing a real network/movement/whatever for people to get involved in. How many anti-capitalist stalls are there at freshers fairs compared with the SWP? How often do people organise meetings for new people and involve them actively?

Without building something real, attacking the SWP is self-indulgent crap. Like they say, when art critics get together they talk about schools of art and astehtic theory. When artists get together they talk about where you can get the cheapest paint. Perhaps a little less discussion of kronstadt and a bit more about organising stalls, booking rooms, arranging transport, putting on debates, involving new people, doing something about these non-hierarchal groups that decide everything important in closed meeting of about three or four mates.

Well, just a thought!

person

Strange argument

02.10.2001 20:24

To say that because I don't know an Afghani or have in-depth knowledge of Afghanistan then I can't speak out against the war is a pretty bizarre line of argument. Does this mean that anti-apartheid campaigners during the 1980s in the UK were wrong because they were white and British? Were they also racist, as you imply the SWP is for its stance on Afghanistan?
By all means, criticise the SWP, but don't be so stupid because very few people will take you seriously.

Dan Brett
mail e-mail: dan@danielbrett.co.uk

pricks

02.10.2001 20:35

What the F are you talking about?

Get a life and have a wee think anout the world you live in.

Andy

SWP/Globalise Resistance

02.10.2001 20:52

Isn't it true that one of the leaders of Globalise Resistance spoke to the police and requestede that they arrest the WOMBLES?

A N Gry

oops

02.10.2001 21:23

Sorry for hitting the send button 4 times, I thought it hadn't worked! Still if something's worth saying, say it again...

A N Gry

Partners in crime

02.10.2001 21:46

IMF, WTO, SWP - they're all the same.

Red Terror

Stop me. Don't buy one.

02.10.2001 21:49

I used to sell the Socialist Worker and do all the other things the party told me to do but then I got this guy nailed to cross and well ...

Judas

I.M.Eff

02.10.2001 21:58

CIA, MI5, SWP - they're all the same.

Bond, James

Planes

02.10.2001 22:01

If only I had directions to SWP HQ and a pilot's licence.

Osama

Party Notes

02.10.2001 23:29

Can anyone keep me up todate with SWP party notes. Were having lots of problems with SWP.
Nad

Nad
mail e-mail: nad_7@hotmail.com

is the SWP getting serious?

03.10.2001 12:10

look in the second block of text under the sub heading "Build SWP Groups"

it reads: "We need to arm our comrades plus we need to discuss our work in the anti-war movement."

is this the revolution at last?

bang on Dan Brett by the way. I hate the way people bandy the word racism around without thinking about it.

Tom

Suprised?

07.10.2001 12:18

When have the SWP ever hidden the fact that they want to recruit people? Do we really need to see an internal document to know this? They are Leninists, one of Lenins quotes is "Build the Party". For those of us who are not Leninists we would disagree but none of this shocks me. We know they want to sell the paper because they do it all the time. I don't have a problem with them arguing to have an SWP speaker on the platform of an Anti War coalition. If the people within that coalition don't want one, then they will just say no!
The fact is that everyone who is in the movement are not shy and easily manipulated we are standing up against the biggest enemy there is, Capitalism. We can think for ourselves. So surely we can turn round to the SWP and say no when they ask us to join, and yes if we agree with their politics.
If the SWP had as much power as we make them out to have then they would have recruited everyone and led the revolution by now, fortunatley they haven't.

Marcus

UK Indymedia