Sorry to be blunt but ...

It's all life

11.12.2001 09:33

It's true. If we can callously stand by and watch and ALLOW MAFF (DEFRA) to shoot and burn millions of healthy animals on funeral pyres, what will we do when they turn their attention, again, to humans? And where are these new viral outbreaks materializing from? Chemtrails? What would it take to normalise mass human burials, a premeditated epidemic like the plague or small pox? People who have such little feeling for defenceless animals, will be just as indifferent to human suffering.

Sanctified

Bollocks

11.12.2001 10:25

ive campaigned against human rights violations, the arms trade and war but i enjoy eating meat. if i want to eat meat then i should be allowed to without having animal libbers tell me im evil. they are evil for bombing people.

@my

bollocks?

11.12.2001 11:44

'I've campaigned for animal rights but I enjoy torturing and eating humans. if I want to do this I should be free to do so without human libbers telling me I'm evil. they just go around bombing people'

not trying to be nasty but you're going to have to come up with a bit better justification than doing what you like and want when it comes to the torture and inhumane exploitation of fellow living creatures.

would you eat a virus? a maggot? a rat? a dog? a silver-backed gorilla? an eskimo? your mum? where do you draw the line? is it to do with similarity to you? is it that the pain of those creatures with a different shaped face makes no connection with your conscience? or would you prefer meat that is humanely reared and killed? organic perhaps? or is any old blood and guts fine, as long as it's not your immediate family?

human rights means you have that choice. it also means that others have the choice to try and make you think about the implications of your choices, and help you make them on a more informed and moral basis.

funny how few animal rights people actually have been bombing meat eaters. how many is it killed in that war - about none? compare that with Afghanistan, Iraq, CJD, the foot and mouth massacre - countless hideous deaths all caused by people who do what they like and don't care about the rights and values of those who look a bit different - human or animal.

thanks for thinking a bit harder...

fool

What the?

11.12.2001 12:02

But its totally different;
people animals
people animals
people animals
Fair enough, Mcdonalds et al are shit both to people and wildlife/environment etc and you shoulnt inflict suffering on any thing, but its still two different worlds, and i dont think stunts like that achieve much for you/animals

Carcork

what is different?

11.12.2001 12:11

So what is so fundamentally different carcork? Here's a little reminder of something for you - people ARE animals. We're just a different species - does this justify a fundamentally different treatment of other creatures, which are just as capable of experiencing fear, pain, distress, etc? This is the same ignorant mentality that leads people to say "black people, white people" or "man, woman", "oh it's totally different..."

johnny_boy

Animals are for eating

11.12.2001 13:44

there are Australian aboriginals who eat maggots because its an important source of nutrition. will you stop them from doing what theyve done for thousands of years? the innuits in canada eat seals, whales and raindeer. will you stop them from eating these? will you stop africans from eating meat when they cant grow crops? will you stop pacific islanders from eating fishing when there isnt many other things they can eat?
the fact is that humans should be able to eat meat. if you dont like eating meat thats your decision. but i like meat and i always eat free range and organic and dont eat in MacDonalds. i dont see why you should stop me or any other human from doing something weve done for all recorded history.
youre right humans are animals and like all animals at the top of the food chain we eat meat. so ill eat meat and if you try to stop me i will resist by every means possible. these animal libbers have no right to interfere in my right to eat meat. so there!

@my

What a fucking JOKE

11.12.2001 13:57

well @my (hope the '@'does'nt stand for anarchy?) you've surpassed criticism , what the fuck are you doing on a site like this ? continually spouting the joys of the violence you let others commit for you in the form of preparing corpses for you to consume ? People like you make me sick , on one hand 'oh the war is dreadful , the suffering , the pain etc' (that is why you have an interest in this site , right ??) and with the other hand (dripping with guilt and blood) you extort the virtues of continuing the daily war against the living , feeling , breathing animal kingdom !

You're a fucking joke amy.

Liberatorz

i will always eat nice tasty meat

11.12.2001 14:20

yep, i am an anarchist cos i want to liberate HUMANity. i care about animals in the sense that i dont like factory farming or people treating animals cruelly. but eating meat is not cruelty its natural. as i said before if you deny the right of humans to do whats natural for them you are oppressing people and you are anti-human. youd go so far as to stop indigenous people from doing what theyve always done by living in the wild with nature and hunting animals for food. its natural. vegetarians and vegans are unnatural but i wouldnt stop them from making that decision just as they shouldnt stop me from eating meat.
BTW i am looking forward to eating a juicy beef casserole when i get back home.

@my

How about trying to THINK for a while?

11.12.2001 14:38

2.5 million animals die each week in the U.K alone to feed people like amy , think about that on a global daily scale.
Every three days of animal murder in the U.K goes well beyond any holocaust death tolls of the past,this excludes vivisection and all other forms of abuse dealt out to animals.

Torture,imprisonment,no choice,brutallity and murder,no voice.

throats slit,bodies thrown into vats of boiling water to'skin'the animal (sometimes with consciousness or partial consciousness in the animal being present)others hung by thier necks on hooks to be left to bleed to death (in many cases the animal/bird regains consciousness)even before all of this and more takes place many of these creatures have never seen the sunshine from within thier 'belsonesque'confinements,had thier offspring torn from them at birth,denied the love they feel for thier babies (and they do feel love,see how they tend to thier offspring?)kicked,punched,whipped by workers who work daily in a world of bloody horror,desensitised so much that kicking an animal means nothing but a laugh'down on the farm'.

It's nice of you amy not to visit the U.$ of Atrocities flagship 'McMurderers' ... but for me and others and the entire animal kingdom...it's just not enough.

PiXie

bringing it home

11.12.2001 14:50

amy,can you see how snobbishly uncaring you actually are?Try reading your posts.
You sound like a little rich girl stamping her feet saying'i'm never going to stop eating animals,NEVER!so there!''and thoroughly embarrasing yourself by PRETENDING you care about anything at all.
Its all well and good to continually spout off about indigenous races but it only goes to show that you want to move the issue as far away from yourself as possible,because when its close to the bone,the truth scares you ... and believe me when I say 'it should'.

Equallity and peace to ALL living breathing family orientated species!

MoRtIfIeD RAGE

Meat eating is a human right!

11.12.2001 15:08

poor little rich girl, eh? in all my life the only vegans and veggies i have met have been middleclass students. i think its important to talk about those cultures that rely on meat cos otherwise theyd be destroyed altho the animal libbers dont care about that. all im saying is that meat eating is natural and i should be allowed to do it. thats not to say that a lot of farming practices arnt good but thats the same for farming crops which are sprayed with chemicals. i dont like any intensiv farming. i will go on eating meat as long as i live no matter how fluffy and cute the animal looks. animals arnt equal with humans. you cant fall in love with an animal or have sex with it or tell it jokes or talk about books and films with it. at least you cant do it unless you are mad which is what you animal libbers obviously are.

@my

S.O.S

11.12.2001 15:35

Thank you all for your comments on my contribution to I.M site,it's been a pleasure,really.
If only one person has opened thier eyes to the other 'omni present'holocaust that occurs daily across our earth,I'm happy with that.

For some of you others ... S[A]nT[A] will bring you nothing...'be killers,be responsible for mass murder'because'the others'have done it for time immemorial so that gives you the mindless backup to continue in thier murderous ways ... your fate may already be sealed.

but for now , love , peace and great happiness to the black the brown the yellow the white the bird the cow the sheep the pig and all relatives with two legs four legs no legs.

yours sincerly with great love ,

S[A]nT[A]

S[A]nT[A]

Veg

11.12.2001 15:44

Amy,
Your dietary choice causes pain. Say what you like but it does.
You're free to do it obviously, but you're also responsible for the misery it causes.
Get a grip woman.

Bin Liner

care about the environment?

11.12.2001 16:24

For the benefit of Amy, and any others who are shortsighted enough to think that they can be environmentally responsible whilst continuing to eat meat, a good article can be found at

http://www.vegansociety.com/html/whyvegan/whyenvt.html also see

http://www.vegsoc.org/animals/

johnny_boy

various degree

11.12.2001 17:44

your comment brings home the disgusting situation regarding
factory farmed animals. I agree that it is disgusting.
I have seen comments before from @my in which she apparently revels in the fact that she enjoys eating orgaincally reared Turkey's which I think comes into a totally different category. It's still not very nice that an animals live has to be cut short so she can fill her face
but at least it would not have suffered too much.
I think if you want to put a stop to factory farming you'll get a lot of support. Trying to ban meat eating all together is just not viable at this stage of the game.

there definately seems to be a big difference of opinion
even among "enlightmed" anarchists, I guess main stream opinion is going to to be pretty much against you.

.....

Piglet

indigenous city dwellers

11.12.2001 17:45

i don't know about amy but I live in a city where it is far from natural to eat meat, cos the only way enough meat can be provided for the millions of people here is through intensive, unnatural farming. if I lived in the country like the australian aborigines or the san bushmen or the tibetans or whoever, in an environment where killing traditionally, respectfully for meat was the only way to live, i doubt i would be veggie. in fact I would probably have to get used to killing for myself, because there isn;t the opportunity in many of those cultures to pay other people to do what makes me squeamish. meanwhile I'm not middle class, i'm not a student and nor are most of my friends who realise that as indigenous city dwellers, it's natural to think a bit about the implications of where our food comes from, how it is treated before it reaches us, and think about the alternatives for the health of us, other humans, other animals and the land. and see the parallels between the shitty lives and sad deaths of animals exploited for greed and profit, whether they be human animals or not.

fool

oh by the way

11.12.2001 17:49

liberatorZ I have every sympathy with your point of view on animals but as to the purpose of this site - it ain't meant to be a support group for people who all think the same! It's about a free media where people can say what they want, and it's independent of any one ideology, value system, community. I don't think it's helpful to tell people they are in the wrong place just because you don't agree with them...
cheers.

fool

to fool

11.12.2001 18:57

Point recieved and understood , I just got a little angry , I.M.C is for EVERYBODY and a great site it is , sorry for the way the previous post sounded , but not really sorry to amy ... her comments bore the reprise.

LiberatorZ

Sorry to be blunt but...

12.12.2001 00:40

... this picture is extremely disrespectful to the people that died in the holocaust and their relatives. It's also offensive to me, and I don't come into either of those categories. I can promise you, you wouldn't think this was a powerful way of expressing your point if that was your grandparents lying dead in the pit there. (By the way, I can live with being offended, I'm just letting you know.)

If you don't understand the difference between people and animals, I hope you live long enough to find out. You will be much happier once you truly appreciate what separates us and them. Think about the following:

When did you last have a good conversation with an animal?

When did you last read a really good book by an animal?

Have you ever loved an animal that was capable of loving you back in the same way, or even in any way?

How many animals hold patents?

Every jerk has a website these days. Where are the animals'?

Should animals be allowed to vote? Would you submit to their rule if they were elected to office?

Should we prosecute animals for killing other animals? If so, how could we punish those convicted?

How many animals would benefit from a first-class education?

If you were a driver, would you feel the same remorse for running over a hedgehog as you would for a child?

If you had to choose between a random pig being killed, and a random person, which would you choose? Would you feel different if it were a specific pig that you knew and liked and a specific person that you also knew and liked?

Etc.

There are a million good reasons to oppose the meat industry. It *is* cruel and unnecessary, as well as wasteful. I happen to be vegetarian. (Yes, I really am. I'm not just saying it to bolster my argument. Hey, I don't even eat fish or chicken - ever!) Yes, animals can feel pain and have varying degrees of intelligence. They don't need to be farmed and killed, nor should they, in my opinion.

However, equating animals with people is purely sentimental. It has no logical, moral or scientific basis. Further, I believe that advocates of animal rights have actually retarded the cause of animal welfare and indirectly *prolonged* the suffering of animals throughout the world. It is only when we have a clear and defensible moral and philosophical framework for preventing cruelty to animals that any significant movement will happen on the social and legal front. Animal rights arguments that equate animals with people confuse this process and impede it. Quite rightly, the public at large won't buy it.

Yes, it's a nice idea. No, it doesn't make any sense. This type of campaign material delights those that already agree with you, repels those that disagree, and persuades no-one.

Protestix

to Protesdix

12.12.2001 10:41

If you'd actually read any of the previous posts, you'd understand no-one's equating human and non-human lives.
But a slaughter is a slaughter and suffering is suffering. The fact that humans are the only ones who can take driving lessons (if that was one of your oh-so-relevant citeria) doesnt mean we can shit on all the rest.
Your food choices are causing misery. Deal with it.

veg

Unconvincing extremism

12.12.2001 11:41

if your trying to stop me eating meat you wont get far by throwing insults at me and telling me i'm 'sick', 'cruel', 'a fucking joke', 'a little rich girl', etc. your all a bunch of loony extremists who hate humanity to the extent that youd harm people to get your way. you dont have answers to my points cos youve no consistent arguement. you just insult, bully and harm people.
i will continue to eat meat which is my right as a human and i will eat meat that is reared and killed humanely. but im not going to have some sanctimonious animal libber dictate whether i should eat meat, which is eaten in almost all cultures and across all recorded time.

@my

Amy...

12.12.2001 15:30

...Fuck off with ur bullshit - you sound like a fed or at least a BUTCHERS DAUGHTER to us.

bye bye

DarkSider

Animal Libbers are fucking twats

12.12.2001 15:43

'Darksider' is too fucking thick to engage in debate so he throws his weight round. some hope u guys have of changeing peoples minds. your heads are to far up your arses.

@my

Animal Freedom.

12.12.2001 17:12

I'm against eating animals and I think all cows and sheep should be set free into the wild from where they quite obviously came. The only problem then is my mate is a vegetable liberationist. He goes mad when I boil a spud. He says the spuds are not properly dead when they arrive at the chippy and you can hear their screams when that fascist puts them in the fat. I think he's right and I've set my stick of celery free after enjoying his company as a pet for two weeks. The trouble is, living on water is a bastard and I'm down to two pounds in weight. I'm frightened to inhale in case I swallow a poor micro-organism and kill it.

Lisa Simpson

Lost for fucking words

12.12.2001 22:52

Prostetix, I thank you; you have said it all. BTW, I havn't eaten meat in years, but when I read some of the hysterical sanctimonious pigshit (sorry- is that "speciesist?") on this posting, I want to run to the nearest McDonalds. Some of these bunnyhuggers wnat to take a good fucking look at themselves, and at how offensive that burger= Auschwitz rhetoric actually is.

I had family members who died in the Holocaust. I have no words to describe the rage I feel, even now, towards the perpetrators of that hideous, unimaginable violence. Can any of you really fucking equate a "butcher's daughter" with Josef Mengele? Twats.

Julie Burchill

To veg

12.12.2001 23:17

My comments were primarily in reference to the picture at the top of the page, which shows juxtaposed pictures of the Jewish holocaust and scenes from slaughterhouses with the caption, "There is no fucking difference". You don't need a Ph.D in semiotics to understand that this is equating human and non-human slaughter as matters of equal concern. They can only be matters of equal concern if human and non-human life is of equal worth. If you believe that they are then please explain why, rather than just sloganising that "slaughter is slaughter", which tells us nothing. If you answer some of my (rhetorical) questions honestly, you'll probably find that when it comes to the crunch, the pig's more likely to get it than your boyfriend / girlfriend / mum.

Some of my criteria for distinguishing humans from animals were clearly meant to be humourous (though a sense of humour tends to be lacking on this site), but others cut right to the essential differences that set humans and other animals apart. I didn't mention anything about driving lessons, so you must be hallucinating about that. However, I *did* mention that I'm a vegetarian, so if my food choices are causing misery it's only to meat producers, and I can certainly deal with that.

Oh, and please get my name right in future. You're not exactly Oscar Wilde, are you?

Protestix

to Scroatestix

13.12.2001 18:56

Looks like the other reply didnt get thro..

a) re. your food choices : fair nuff (didnt read your post properly)

b) re. comparison between death camps and animal slaughter. 800 million animals are killed pointlessly each year in the UK alone. How we can size that up against the horrific killing in WW2 is beyond my abilities: people like Amy just basically say animals are worth fuck all (but then their loud claims to compassion in other areas ring a bit hollow). The suffering is such that your smug 'well I dont even eat chicken' is just risible.

I just enjoy the way AR arguments enrage those meaty progressives who are used to occupying the moral Himalayas but enjoy chicken madras too much to live with any consistency.

c) Name 'wrong' / sense of humour kind of cancel each other out (think about it).

Cheer up,
veg

veg

UK Indymedia

Sorry to be blunt but ...

Comments

It's all life

Bollocks

bollocks?

What the?

what is different?

Animals are for eating

What a fucking JOKE

i will always eat nice tasty meat

How about trying to THINK for a while?

bringing it home

Meat eating is a human right!

S.O.S

Veg

care about the environment?

various degree

indigenous city dwellers

oh by the way

to fool

Sorry to be blunt but...

to Protesdix

Unconvincing extremism

Amy...

Animal Libbers are fucking twats

Animal Freedom.

Lost for fucking words

To veg

to Scroatestix

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