This is absolutely disgusting. We really need to take some action against people like this, how can condemning racism be against the law, and if it is I want the law changed. Unions should have strong opinions on this type of thing and anyone blocking it should be taken out and shot.

How did they get into power in the first place? and how can you get them out of power?

This article is pretty close to what happened, it was quite a shock to see such protest to a good motion. However there is a small point in oposing ANY form of extremism. Personally I would not count socialism as FAR left, equality is a goal to be strived for in this world, however the likes of communism can not be condoned. I am a complete pacafist, I hate violence of any kind and this is why I would have to say, that not only should facism, racism, homophobia, sexism, disability discrimination and any other discrimination be oposed but so should any opressive or violent politocal extremes.

Very democratic, aren't you Jeff? typical lefty half-wit, grow up

The ammendment proposed about including left wing extremism specifically included Socialism. As one of the 2 proposers, I distinctly remember the words (I paraphrase) "I personally find the Socialist Alliance more distasteful than the BNP" by Neil Martin, right before the ammendment went up for vote.

Nationalist governments in the past have been brought about by democracy whereas communist ones have nearly always involved violence.

Nobody is advocating Nazism, not even the BNP, and people have a right to express their political views regardless of what they may be.

Orwellian proclaimations against certain political parties don't serve democracy or free speech at all. Communism, if anything, is far worse than Nazism - far more died under communism and it denies _everybody_ (except the elite) rights whereas Nazism only denies rights to some people.

Just for the record, the Student Union Council at a whole were not particularly at fault here, and apart from Darren and Neil, the majority on the council (especially the executive members) dealt with the issue very well.

Whilst i dont generally agree with Darren Sylvester on many of his political 'stunts' I would like to voice my opinion on this matter.

The students union should at all times be seen to be democratic. And, as far as I am concerned that means peoples opinions, however extreme, should be listened to.

Its unreasonable to say someone who is ultra right wing shouldn't be allowed to run for a position on a SU council or hold a position on that council post election. Just as it is unreasonable to say an Ultra left wing candidate such shouldn't be allowed to run for or hold such a position. Further to that, to condemn the BNP or the SWP and to ban them from making their opinions known on issues is unreasonable.

SWP or BNP - both are seen by many as radical. One for its left wing policy the other for its right wing policy. A true democracy would allow both a soapbox. Only an oppresive dictatorial regime would condemn and prohibit both, or favour one over the other. And seeing the Students union is supposed to be there for all students, regardless of political or religious beleifs, class, gender etc, it shouldnt be trying to ratify condemnation of anything thats going to prevent political discourse.

Like a lot of issues, the solution to this is simple. If you disagree with someone affiliated with the BNP or the SWP or Labour or Conservatives or libertarians etc you dont have to vote for them or support their proposals. Thats what democracy boils down to - Choice.

of politics and culture. The NUS is not even a shadow of the moderately-leftwing institution it was in the 1960s and 70s. As the student membership becomes less egalitarian in make-up, structure, and outlook, all kinds of thgings like this will occur.

Less egalitarian in make-up???

More working class students and ethnic minorities go to university today than ever before.

I think it's more to do with the fact that the left has failed to provide real solutions to Britain's problems and has consistently tried to pass the buck for the mess they've caused. The truth is, the left wing is only offering more of the same and some more. The left fails to debate race and immigration, it pretends the multiracial society is all hunky dorey, except of course for the odd field day on "white racism" and "imperialism". All this when most racial attacks are against whites rather than by them.

Most students don't want lunatic policies like open borders (pushed by most of the radical left) as it would mean a rapid decline in the standard of living in this country.

The right wing offers an ideal for many to believe in, pride in ones race and nation instead of being ashamed of it as the left would like us to be. It also offers practical solutions that work instead of pie-in-sky socialist ideas that have failed whenever they've been tried.

The left is in terminal decline, would the last SWP member please turn off the lights.

Since when has the left failed to address immigration? I assume you know more than to call either New Labour or Lib Dem's "left". Look at almost any Socialist/Anarchist/Any lefty/activist group publications/newsletters/newspapers, you'd see race as one of the main issues discussed. Have a look at a copy of Socialist Worker next time you see one, and while I may not agree with the SWP on a lot, you'll still see that issues of race relations are featured heavily.

The comments about more ethnically diverse and working class students attending university now is, infact false. Since the introduction of tuition fees, University attendance from representitves of these groups has taken a sharp decline.

And as for allowing the BNP to stand/talk. The Union can, and in fact would (or at least I hope so) stop a BNP candidate standing, since NUS and the Union here both have "No Platform" policies towards Nazi's. The big difference between the SWP and the BNP is that the BNP is based on hatred, wheras the SWP is not. As far as I can remember, no socialist has ever attempted the eradication of an entire race(and no, Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao weren't socialists. And even they didn't base their policies on racial hatred.). BNP and Nazi electoral success has been proven to cause an increase in racial violence. When Derek Beacon was elected in Tower Hamlets, racial violence in the area increased by 300%.

The BNP National Election organiser is a convicted gang rapist. The party preaches violence, murder, racism, holocaust denial and homophobia. The Socialist Alliance campaigns on peace, fighting racism and destroying the gap between the rich and the poor. To compare such a party as the Nazi BNP to the Socialist Alliance or any other socialist group is both disgustingly offensive, but also, It's basically being a Nazi apologist. Saying Nazi's and Socialists are "just as bad as each other" just makes the disgusting fascist lies seem more tolerable.

Essex University and union already has a concrete policy against discrimination (It's on the walls in several places on campus). The BNP opposes all this stands for, and such politics should NEVER be tolerated within a multi-cultural learning environment.

And finally, to the person above who said that communists come to power through force, and Fascists electorally. Perhaps you'd like to tell that to the victims of Franco. I'm sure Orwell (well, you did call what we were saying "Orwellian"....) could tell you some things about how the fascists in Spain came to power "democratically".

Nazi, Nazi, Nazi.

Thats the problem with the Socialists, you keep shifting the goal posts, if you listen to any communist they'll tell you that Russia wasn't really communist, anytime you bring-up a horror or bad policy of the communists they make excuses and say "oh they weren't genuine communists" etc ad nauseum.

Calling the BNP nazis is like calling New Labour communists. Opposing ethnic immigration isn't hatred, it's just common sense. Just look around in any "cosmopolitan" area and see that the multicultural society is under strain. The more diverse we become, the more hatred will arrise, because racism is inevitable when a people are under threat of becoming a minority in their own country, in our case, by 2060.

I wish multiculturalism did work on a big scale, however, it never ever does. Look at Kosovo, Yugoslavia, South Africa, etc etc. It brings problems we never had before to our doorsteps, ethnic tensions, increasing social problems, on top of our existing ones. That's not to say that multiculturalism hasn't had any benefit, it has, but most of the benefits have been dwarfed by the increased problems of having to keep such a disparate society together.

The Socialist Worker publications do discuss race, however its nearly always the predictable "white is bad, black is good" rhetoric. As if we're all supposed to fall over onto our knees and beg for forgiveness for bringing civilisation to most of the world. It's the usual "racism" line, stale as a year-old loaf of bread, talking about how "institutionally racist" the police are for quite rightly stopping more of one group (which is responsible for 90% of street crime) than other groups. They bang on about Steven Lawrence and others, which were callously murdered, while forgetting the white victims of racial murders - Ross Parker ring any bells? You can bet your life he won't have a plaque like Steven Lawrence. How about the 14yr old girl in Oldham who was gang raped by Muslims? She won't get her story printed in the Socialist Worker. Why? Because she's white. They both are. It seems, according to the left wing intelligentsia racism is only racism when it's by whites.

Thats why so many people are sick of the left, Labour and the Lib Dems included, because they have no backbone in standing-up for Britain. The job of the government is to stand-up for us, but it's too busy selling us down the river to domination by the EU and destroying whats left of the native British people. The interests of a tiny minority seem to always take precidence over those of the majority. Free speech has to be quashed by "no platform" (preference for Socialists which have done more harm to the world than anyone) policies, because multiracialism on a grand scale and democracy seem to be mutually exclusive.

I don't know about you, but I choose democracy, not hectoring big-brother "we know best" socialism.

Hew, I know your a member of the BNP and NF. I wasn't going to expose you, but since you exposed yourself theres no point hideing it now. Anyway, before swallowing all nazi properganda about there being more racial attacks against whites can you prove this or is it just made up? Also when was the last time you heard someone say "you white bastard" in the street?

While our side rejects all violence, especially racial violence, the policy of the BNP is to encorage racist violence as a way to stop violence against white - fight fire with fire, and this will never work

Being someone who has worked with a lot of immigrants who come to this country, I see regularly the situations that some people are put in and it isn't pretty. It really annoys me when people start claiming that these immigrants are living well of benefits. This just isn't the case, most get into difficulties and somtimes it's inhuman to see a lot of the places they are put in. However 95% of immigrants eventually get jobs and contribute towards the country, so your claim about them spounging is just untrue.

The police are racist if they stop a lot more blacks on the streets, I'd like to know where you get your figures from, you seem to be coming out with a lot of statistics that are probably completely shite. I was in court for 2 days last week and it certainly didn't seem like 90% were black when when I was around there.

We bought civilation to the world.

We bought guns to the world not civilisation, we got tribes to fight against each other for our own personal profit, if this is your idea of civilisation then your sick.

And anyway what makes you think they wanted 'civilisation' im sure the africans were very happy running around in the loin clothes hunting for food and getting stoned a lot, i know i'd be happy.

'As if we're all supposed to fall over onto our knees and beg for forgiveness for bringing civilisation to most of the world.'

Bringing civilisation to the world, are you having a joke, when we went to africa we took guns and explosives in return for slaves, that's not civilisation and if you think it is you are sick.

Why the hell are you so sure they wanted 'civilisation' any way, im sure they were very happy running around in loin clothes hunting for food and getting stoned a lot, I know I would be, sounds more fun then what we are living in now.

I'm not a member of either, however, there is a widely published statistic that around 60% of racist attacks are against whites according to the police.

No, I have yet to hear of someone being called a white bastard in the street, but Muslim youths did call a brownie pack using the church in Oldham "christian bitches", and racist language was used when Peterborough cathedral was burned by Muslim youths. When Ross Parker, a 17yr old boy in Oldham, was chased into the Muslim area and stabbed to death, I imagine they used racist terms, seeing as it was a brutal racist murder by fanatics.

If you want a treasure trove of incitements to racial hatred by black rappers:  http://www.amren.com/rap.htm.

Muslim clerics like Abu Hamza urge young Muslims to go out and kill the unbelievers (Christians, Jews, Hindus etc) in their communities and "show no mercy".

And if there isn't enough anti white racism about now, things will only get worse in future. Look at America, we're typically 30 years behind America: racial quotas, anti white "positive" discrimination, and horrific attacks such as the recent one where 3 men and a woman (all white) were forced by 4 blacks with a gun to commit sex acts in the snow and then lined up and shot.

Whenever a white person is racially murdered it's covered-up, whenever an ethnic minority person is racially murdered - the media have a field day. Tell me that isn't sick.

The 90% figure is courtesy of the Commissioner of the Met. The fact there were no blacks in court is because Colchester hasn't got many ethnic minorities.

I never said the immigrants were sponging, and yeah it's true to say that many asylum seekers are kept in inhuman conditions.

I have never and will never support racial violence of any kind. We have enough of it as it is. And right now it looks like we're going to have a long hot summer of race riots as well. This isn't doing anybody any favours. But people have to have a political way to express their feelings and politicians have to listen. Things aren't working right now and it's time people woke-up to this instead of blaming the far right for everything.

Frankly, I find the comments by Jack Upton and Martin Clarke very upsetting as well as being largely untrue.
For the record, the NUS regional officer did not give a comment on the legality of the motion.
Additionally, I am not a member of any far right organisation and never have been.
What these idiots should appreciate is that the left is dead and that harking back to the politics of 25 years ago (as demonstrated by Jack Upton's dress sense) really gets nowhere.
I would like to let people know that when these two ran for office as sabbaticals they failed miserably. I, on the other hand, got more votes than either of them when I ran for Chair of Council.
To prove the death of the hard left, people should remember that in last weeks council elections the Socialist Alliance failed to win any seats at all, coming last in most of them and that in the general election last year they lost their deposit everywhere, coming last in every single seat.
Get your facts right guys and stop spouting out of date hatred.

I suggest you ask a black African in Zimbabwe whether he would have preferred the British not to have arrived. I mean, we were so cruel weren't we, we built roads, cities, schools, hospitals, public services and a farming system that fed Zimbabwe and all the countries around it. There was no apartheid in colonial Africa except in South Africa. Blacks in Zimbabwe, under Ian Smith, earned 1/5th of the average US income, and now under a "free government" they earn about 1/100th.

Do you really think blacks in Africa would agree with your ideas? I'm sure they'd say they didn't like the massively high infant mortality rate, constant warring, famine, female genital mutilation and abuse of women, and lack of healthcare and opportunities to educate themselves.

The reality of the situation is as follows:

The said motion was mandating the Students' Union at Essex University to in effect use union funds and resources to support the campaign to condem fascism and racism that the proposer and seconder of the motion wished to campaign for. I stated purely and simply that the Students' Union at Essex University is a Charity and so cannot get involved in political activities under the Charity Commission Guidelines and to my knowledge, under the Charities Act 1993.

For the avoidance of any doubt, The University of Essex does not suffer from an anti-fascist movement on campus, a fact which can be evidenced from a number of sources. I suggested to Union Council, that for reasons of clarity and to avoid ambiguity that the position/degree of involvement a Students' Union can be involved in with regard to political involvements/activities be clarified by a legally qualified person in terms of a solicitor, barrister or academic.

The comments made in the foregoing are factually wrong, and as a black student, for the record, I was principally in favour of the "idea" behind the motion, but not the way it was presented in terms of mandating the Students' Union at Essex University to undertake something which is illegal and could render the trustees of the Students' Union open to cliams of breach of trusteeship in the future.

Darren J. Sylvester
Chairman, University of Essex Students' Union
Wivenhoe Park
Colchester
Essex
C04 3SQ
United Kingdom

As a former employee of the Benefits Agency, I agree with the idea that many immigrants live off benefits. Whilst many engage in constructive activities in the UK, many, particularly recently, are engaging in criminal activity.
To add to Martin Clarke's comment regarding housing, I have seen some of the places that British citizens live and they aren't pretty either. We should really be dealing with ourown problems first.
As for the 'asylum seekers' the question has to be why are they seeking asylum in the first place? International Law states that a person seeking asylum should go to the nearest safe country. As the UK is an island, people have to pass through many safe countries to get here. Their governments, however, have the good sense to reject the largely false claims put by these people.

I have only just read an earlier comment by Jack Upton stating that the far left is not based on hatred. The extreme left is in fact based on a hatred of hard work and individual wealth.

Also, as a Politics student Jack is no doubt aware that 'Anarchism' is not a coherent political philosophy. Were it one, it would in fact be a an extreme version of Classical Liberalism. 'Anarchism' is a school of thought that says that the state should be abolished in favour of voluntary co-operation between individuals. The emphasis here is on the abolition of the state and the rights of individuals, hardly a sign of socialist collectivism.

Just for the record, it is not possible to be a Socialist intellectual. This is because Socialism does not recognise the paramount importance of individual thought over the paramount importance of the state and collectivist behaviour based on the idea of the involvement of the state.

I would like to draw the attention of readers to the misleading and incorrect information that has been purported to have happened at the Union Council meeting ( the subject of the article).

First, the motion was NOT blocked (nor did it fail!!), it has simply been deferred pending legal advice as there were technicalities which had to be researched into. This move was to ensure that the SU complied with all rules, regulation and the law, and is perfectly justified.

Secondly, I would like to point out that the writer of the article was one of the people who submitted the motion, and has written a biased and untrue account of what actually happened. Shame on the writer!!! I think you really need to check out the facts properly (or rewind your memory) and not just 'make-up' an account in favour of your views and beliefs. I do sympathise with the whole issue, but I just don't think this false and malicious attack on Union Council is fair. I think it is childish and immature.

Thirdly, I am not in support of Darren nor Neil, but I think the writer has twisted and even changed what was really discussed and said at the meeting. Although Darren did question the competence of the NUS officer, it was not on the basis of a 'law degree', but on the basis of legal qualification. Also, Darren did not threatend to take legal actions against the trustees should the motion be passed, but (following several articles written in the newspapers) that legal actions would be taken IF defamatory material is published about him. I think this is understandable as everyone is entitled to protect their rights.

Lastly, I am sympathetic to what happened, but this article is really an insult upon your fellow Essex Uni students since you presume that we all believe in what we read!!! We are not stupid!

:(

Due to revision and impending examinations, I find it hard to see how students have so much time to contribute to such pages, however, although this is imposing on my time, I feel that the position must be put in its correct context, which is as follows:

Mr Clarke and Mr Upton proposed and seconded a motion respectively that mandated the Students' Union at The University of Essex to engage in political activities which have the effect of condemning fascism and racism. While I am not in any way associated with the far right or do not share their beliefs (as Mr Clark's e-mail so asserted), the "idea" of the motion had very good intentions but it was the mechanics and operation of the motion that I felt would be illegal (as well as stirring up trouble on a campus which does not suffer from any of the problems previous commentators have stated).

The Students Union, as with any Students' Union is a Charity and are subjected to the Charity Commission's Guidelines and, to my knowledge, The Charities Act 1993. The said motion, if passed, would have meant that the Students' Union at Essex University would have been acting illegally (as a Charity cannot donate resources or funds for a particular political purpose, or allocate resources or funds to particular persons to carry out a political purpose) and it was on these grounds that I suggested Councillors do not vote on this motion now (as at yesterday's meeting) but that for purposes of clarification and to avoid ambiguity, a legal opinion should be sought from a qualified legal person in terms of a solicitor, barrister or academic.

It was correct that the NUS Returning Officer was present at this meeting and while it is stated "that he could reassure Councillors that the said motion would not be illegal", the fact is that he did not know, and was therefore guessing that it would not be illegal which, were the motion to have been passed would not be sufficient evidence to exempt the Students' Union at Essex University and its trustees for acting illegally and breaching their fiduciary duty as trustees.

I trust this puts the matter in context, and finally as a Black Student, and as mentioned above, I did agree with the "idea" of the motion in principle, but not in the way that it would be given effect to.

With kind regards,

Darren J. Sylvester
Chairman, Students' Union Council
The University of Essex
Wivenhoe Park
Colchester
Essex
CO4 3SQ
United Kingdom

Referring to Huw Morgan's comments earlier, which were 'corrected' by Martin Clarke.

Huw is right in pointing out that racist attacks against whites outnumber racist attacks by whites. This is supported by Home Office figures and by statistics from the Metropolitan Police, figures which Ken Livingstone presumably dislikes.

Additionally, since 'stop-and-search' was suspended in the face of the ludicrous MacPherson report crime figures have soared in London.

I'm low on time so I'll keep this brief. Firstly I'm not going to deal with Hew Morgans fascist retoric, it falls down well enough on it's own.

Secondly, Darren, any person who was ideologically in favor of the motion would not make a comment like "I will see that the trustees are held to account if the motion is passed"

Finally if the anonymous person would care to point out where he thinks the factual errors are then I will respond, however he just likes to make general proclamations about it being wrong, proving his claims have no basis

Neil - The NUS officer DID say that the motion was okay, after the part that specifically mentioned the BNP had been removed.

You seem to be practised at bending the truth. If we performed "miserably" in the sabbatical elections, when how would you assess the performance of the slate "Sabb 2B", headed by one Darren Sylvester, who we happened to beat in every position. Comparativly, our performance was incredibly good for a political slate. (Full results are here -  http://su.essex.ac.uk/elections/Sabbresult02.htm) Whereas I hear you were beaten by "None of the above" in the general elections (although, I am unable to find the full results for the general elections online to confirm this).

The left is dead? So, this "dead" left had 300,000 people demonstrating at Genoa? 500,000 - 600,000 at Barcelona? 2 - 3 million on the streets of Rome? Hardly a dead movement.

Your comments on the Socialist Alliance are pretty meaningless, considering the Greens (very left on a lot of issues) got almost 20 seats, the Independant Working Class Association got 1, and the Socialist Alternative got 4. Which is more than the BNP got (although this doesn't diminish how disgusting this support for the BNP is). Even the much maligned Socialist Alliance tripled it's vote. And please, taking a dig at my dress sense really doesn't help prove a point.

We're not the ones spouting hatred, and we never claimed you were part of any far-right organisation. We're the ones fighting against intolerance and discrimination. If you say it's wrong to be disgusted by someone who wants to exterminate entire races because they aren't "pure", then you are an incredibly sick person.

Your comments in your second post are utterly disgusting. What right does someone have to help first just because they're white? What next? Helping people who are straight first because they're "normal"? Deal with everyone's problems, don't discriminate based on their race or origin. And when it comes to why they come here, often they have very little choice where they flee to. If you've witnessed your entire family being murdered, you're hardly going to care where you flee to, so long as you get out of there to somewhere safe. We should welcome and help these people who have come from the most horrible situations, not turn them away. I thought we were supposed to be "civilised".

Your third post was mostly just conservative rhetoric. Still I guess it's hard to learn much more in the government department at this university. Socialism is about equality. Of course hard work isn't hated by socialists. Most socialists expect the proletariat to be hard working so they can take the means of production into their own hands. Your comments about anarchism are meaningless and add nothing to debate. And as to your comments about socialist intellectuals, well, why don't you call up York University, and tell them their Politics proffessor (Alex Callinicos) isn't an intellectual.

Beyond this point, you just descend into racist demagoguery. I guess you're just showing your true colours.

Darren - The motion asked for nothing financial, merely a condemnation of fascism, and assistance in organising an anti-racist struggle. But still, I thank you for your support for the "idea" of the motion. I don't know what you mean by "suffering" from a anti-fascist movement. I hope you meant to say fascist movement, since an anti-fascist movement is hardly something to suffer from. And while Essex Uni may not be infested with Nazis, Colchester is (at least in several areas), and there ARE Nazi's on campus. And please tell me how this motion would have "stirred up trouble on campus". I'd love to know.

Huw - This filth is disgusting. You've obviously never lived in America if you think white's are discriminated against. Your figures are all based upon lies and twisted facts. But I'm going to address the comments of people who at least think they're telling the truth. Perhaps I'll comment on your lies later.

Anon - Martin never claimed he wasn't someone who had submitted the motion when he posted. If he had wanted to hide the fact, he wouldn't have given his e-mail address. No deception was intended, and if you think it should have been included, then so be it.

However, the view was not twisted, as Charlie said above "This article is pretty close to what happened". There were a few details left out to stop the article being too long (eg, he didn't mention that it was amended to add Xenophobia and homophobia to the list of condemned items), but the general spirit of the write up was correct. By blocked, it was meant that the motion was prevented from being passed at the meeting. Which it was.

Darren DID say he would take legal action, or at least said that he would make sure the Union was investigated for breach of the charities act. I apologise if he got the legal definition wrong, but Martin isn't a Law student. And the article is hardly an insult, since it's, well, the truth.

A living example of this was the case of the farmer who'd dragged a black behind his pick-up truck, killing him. The farmer who'd been in prison only briefly before the murder, had been repeatedly gang raped by gangs of blacks in jail (a common practice in American prisons which often has a racial connation as whites are loathe to stand-up for themselves as a group). This farmer, was sentenced to death by a court in Texas for the horrific murder. The media were all over this like flies, screaming about "white racism" and so forth.

However, about a year after this date, a gang of blacks did almost the same thing. They came accross a homeless white man and tied him up to the back of their pick-up truck to his death down a small road. This case barely warranted a brief report in the local press.

Another case was that of the recent release of a Black religious leader, who calls himself Yahweh ben Yahweh. His name actually is Hulon Mitchell. He's a former Black Muslim, and, in fact, he ran a Black Muslim mosque in Atlanta for a while in the early 1970s, until he was
accused of sexual improprieties with underaged Muslim girls and dipping into the collection plate. He dropped out of the Nation of Islam, where he was known as Hulon X, and in 1978 founded his own church, the so-called Nation of Yahweh, with a religion based on Judaism.

An initiation requirement Hulon Mitchell established for the elite, inner circle of his church, the so-called
"Brotherhood." The requirement was the murder of a White person, and the bringing to Mitchell of some evidence of the murder, such as an ear or even the head of the victim. In fact, Mitchell preached to his whole congregation that the killing of White people of "blue-eyed devils" is pleasing to Yahweh.

By the time the police finally wound up Mitchell's race murder cult in November 1990 and packed Mitchell off to prison, his followers had butchered and mutilated at least 23 men, women, and children, 14 of them in Miami alone. Some of the victims were recalcitrant members of his own
church, and the Associated Press story (one of very few)doesn't give a racial breakdown, but the figure I've seen elsewhere puts the number of White victims at 16. Mitchell spent a little over 10 years in prison. That works out to
about eight months for the murder of each "blue-eyed devil." He was released on parole in summer last year.

This wasn't even on American network TV, and instead of the Washington Post describing just how terrible this character was, the headline they came-up with was "No Freedom
of Religion for Yahweh". There's no mention at all in the story about the initiation requirements for the "Brotherhood" or of the ritual murder of "blue-eyed devils": just one cryptic mention at the end of
Mitchell playing with the severed ear of a White victim. The story deals almost entirely with Mitchell's contesting of the conditions imposed on his parole by the parole board. They told him that he couldn't have any further contact with the more than 1,000 members of the Nation of
Yahweh. His lawyers have gone to court to have the conditions on his parole removed.

So he runs a race murder cult, but gets off with only 13years in jail. The white farmer who kills 1 person gets death. The media pay attention to the white racist, but ignore and even protect the black racist. I wonder why.

OK, hew. you propose to solve the problem by kicking everyone who isn't from your "master race" out of the country, but we want to solve the problem by equality of all races. Racism is a problem, whatever race ir is against, but if you try to solve this by encouraging more racism then you will only make the problem worse. Violence never solves anything

I don't know which comments you're reading but they can't be mine. I've never talked about a master race, I've never advocated forced repatriation, I've never said I agree with racial violence, and I don't think anyone is superior.

as a non-student who has never been to essex univ, I'm fascinated by this series of exchanges.

what the hell is going on? either this is a stupid and unnecessary storm in a tea cup, stirred up as a result of incompetence and petty student politics (which is certainly characteristic of the two other NUS operations I've known), or someone is actively trying to create an atmosphere of racial and political hostility at Essex. assuming that there are intelligent people at Essex who could sortt this out if they were determined to do so for the common good, I wonder why this fight is happening, and so publicly, especially at a time when people are rising around the world against the reality of global economic apartheid, following the coup by oil-funded fundamentalist Christians in the world's best armed empire, while this political reality is being denied and simultaneously encouraged by our government in the UK?

The level of 'debate' on both sides here seems mostly poor, with crude misrepresentations of the facts generated by racially and politically biased rants. is anybody looking into the families or funding perhaps received by those behind the most provocative actions at Essex and posts here?

how useful for Anglo-Saxon economic and political elites world wide to have their students and working classes fighting each other, rather than getting on with the necessary global resistance to neo-liberalism and its inhuman consequences for people of every colour, race and nearly every class?

REMEMBER, FASCISM TAKES MANY FORMS, divide and rule among them....

Whats really pathetic is the misguided idea that students should sing from the same hymn sheet, and join the radical left wing opposition to the system.

We're not 1 thing, we're all seperate individuals with different opinions about things and different priorities. Some of us may well support the left wing alternative, which incidently, would undeniably be a disaster for us as a first world country as it would result in redistribution and loss of jobs to the 3rd world. Any such "revolution" would inevitably require violence as well.

However, there are others who perhaps don't mind the present system, despite its problems. And others, who agree that there are massive problems with the system, but don't agree entirely on what the problems are, who they are caused by and the emphasis on what should be done. For some of us, protecting our own country and interests comes first and foremost before bailing-out failing nations that would disappear into the analls of history if things were left to natural "weeding out" processes.

Rather than "imperialism" and "racism", I can see beyond that to the real reason why various things are happening. The west is facing its biggest challenge yet, for its very survival, against the combined challenges of expansionist Islam and liberal-left promotion of mass immigration into the United States and Europe to create a divided west that can be easily dominated by the multinationals. Removing the traditional cultural and national identities creates a mass of people with no identity or bonds to anything except the great big gaping absence of culture in the centre, its place taken by the multinationals. Rather than being British, French, etc, we just become "consumers of the world", with cheap labour free to enter our countries and compete unfairly with our workers.

Huw, as I said, you talk too much, can you try and be a little more brief, ta!

Please can you make it brief and easy for us socialists to understand! Remember to include lots of *phobia and *ism because cliches and insults are what we understand best.

Hew, I'm really interested to know what is your problem with a motion being passed in the students union opposing racism and fascism? Please answer because I really want to know your answer to this question

Democracy implies the ability to air ones views, the Human Rights Act has arguably enshrined this in the legal system of the UK, simply because we do not agree with a persons views does not mean we should preclude others from hearing their voice and ascertaining their own opinions. Furthermore, if we do draw a line where do we draw it? "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is a saying that has been promoted abundantly recently.

With regard to the legal aspect Mr Sylvester cites, he is correct in stating that Charities cannot engage in political acitivty, hence why Amensty is not granted such. For example when students take part in protests, such as against tuition fees, and need to travel, the university are prevented from funding this and thus students have to pay a minimal sum. The only way charities can engage in political acitivty is is if the political acitvity is "ancillary to their objects". Here this wouldn't be so. The reason societies such as "The Labour Society", "Conservative Society" etc. can exist is because there are other political views being put across. The students objecting to Mr Sylvesters objections should consider how they would like the University to be required to actively fund a "Facist society"?

I have been personal friends with Mr Sylvester for a number of years and will concede to him being headstrong and stubborn. But the fact is that someone in his position should adhere to their beliefs and voice such opinions, rather than remain silent avoiding confrontation and acquiesce to motions. With such a political hot potato as this issue it was brave of both Mr Sylvester and his colleague to take the action they did which many would not have, well done to them both.

Democracy implies the ability to voice ones opinions. The Human Rights Act arguably enshrines free speech in the legal system of the UK. If we decide to draw a line as to the extent of free speech we need to consider where exactly such a line is to be drawn? A famous saying of late is that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". Now I am not by any means justifying racism or fascism, and know that Mr Sylvester wouldn't sanction such either, but the proposed motion does not stand against the views of racists and fascists, but against the fundamental freedom of speech.

In regard to the legal aspect which Mr Sylvester cites, he is correct in what he states, charities cannot engage in political activity. This is why when students' travel to protests, for example against tuition fees, the university cannot provide the transport and students' have to pay for it. It is also why Amnesty international is not a charity. The only way that charities can engage in political activity is if it is "ancillary to their objects", this would clearly not be so here. Furthermore, the reason that societies such as "The Labour Society", or "Conservative Society" etc. exist is because the other political points of view are also being conveyed. Those students who contest Mr Sylvester's actions should consider how they would like the university to be required to fund a "Fascist society"?

I have been personal friends with Mr Sylvester for a long while and will concede him to be headstrong and stubborn. But for the role he has he should be inclined to adhere to his beliefs and voice his opinions rather than acquiesce to a principle he fundamentally does not agree with. He and his colleague were not sanctioning fascism and racism, but maintaining freedom of speech and adhering to university procedure and considering the laws of trusteeship and charity. Well done.

Because "racist" and "fascist" are often labels applied to anyone who disagrees with the liberal left, without those people necessarily being racists. The term is overused and misused to stifle debate. On the flip side, "commie" is a term used by the right for anyone who disagrees with them, would you agree to a motion being passed "against communism and marxism" (afterall, 30million died in the USSR against 6 million in the Nazi Holocaust, now you know which is worse.). I'd much rather let everyone have free speech, whether its "commies" or "fascists", because democracy is all about choice. If people's arguments really are that weak then let them make those arguments so that everyone can see this. The main reason why groups like the ANL and co are so keen on "no platform for fascists" is because they know that in an open debate they would have no solutions to offer.

I would like to say some words on behalf of Darren as it would appear that the large majority of the SU Council are constantly gunning for him.

Firstly, I am personally left wing and a good friend of Darren's and can tell you first hand that as much as I may disagree with his politics he is certainly not far right. However the point that you are all missing, in your continual quest to shame Darren, is that as a charity you are not supposed to form political opinions and it is illegal for you to work towards a political goal.

Darren's politics should not even be a point of discussion. In his personal capacity Darren would fully support any form of anti-facist movements but as the Chairperson of the SU Council and the rest of you as members of that Council, as noble as your causes may be the SU Council is not the forum for such debate.

Darren's point was relatively simple however it has appeared to have fallen upon deaf ears due to personal views against him.

Hew, we have solutions, we air those solutions all the time, all you have is problems, I haven't seen you tell me 1 solution to the problems we face today. All you do is state the problem as you see it in your worldview. It's easy to blame other races for the problems but mostly it isn't true. We all need to get along and having people spout racist propoganda is never going to be a solution, only cause more problems. As I have said before racism is a very big problem, but we are never going to solve the problem by encouraging more racism.

And on the point of Darren, I say again the point of this was the HE THREATENED LEGAL ACTION AGAINST HIS OWN UNION FOR PASSING A MOTION CONDEMNING FASCISM AND RACISM. And yes a lot of the council are gunning for him, but he was the one that called the entire executive incompetent for a problem of his making. I have absolutely no sympathy for him

Mr Clark,

I invite you to keep adding "spin" to your story, it eventually may sound believable - as it stands, it is comprised of baseless assertions, and comments which are fictional and a complete fallacy - furthermore, if you and your team wish to keep these comments up, may I suggest that they may make a very good opening chapter to the next Harry Potter novel. I trust the creative flare will not stop here?

Darren Sylvester
Chairman, University of Essex Students' Union Council.

In 1999, only 26% of reported racially motivated incidents were committed against ethnic minorities.

There were 150,000 reported racially motivated incidents, of which 39,000 were racist incidents against ethnic minorities and 111,000 were racist incidents against whites.

There were 192% more incidents against whites than against ethnic minorities in 1999.

( http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/s95race00.pdf)

As a proportion of population - on the basis of one attacker per incident - and using 1999 population estimates
( http://www.statistics.gov.uk/ukin_figs/Data_population.asp)
0.07 percent of whites committed a race related crime in 1999 (49,000 as a percentage of 53,079,000)

3.03% percent of non-whites committed a race related crime in 1999 (111,000 as a percentage of 3,663,000)

Ethnic minorities are more prone to committing race crimes than whites - 43 times more prone. Is it logical therefore to blame the shortcomings of the multiracial society on "white racism"?

"The BBC is hideously white." Greg Dyke, BBC Director General and donor to the Labour Party.

"Newspapers have to sell in order to live; so does commercial TV. That leaves the BBC as the only truly public service medium in this country disseminating information, entertainment, and, in the case of race relations, propaganda. We are unashamed to admit it is what we are
doing." Gerry Hines, BBC Programme Organiser, in Race Today

Darren, did you or did you not say that the whole executive were incompetent, when the union constitution proved that the problem was your fault?

Did you or did you not say "I will see that they are held to account" refering to council when talking about the legal implications of the motion?

Hey shouldn't we be working towards a society where everyone works to better that society and themselves intellectually??? so try and forget your left's and right's!

At the end of the day the motion should be stopped, as far as i can see it devalues free speech! Even though racism and fascism may not be ideal there is a wide range of opinions and ideals around not just the unversity but the world. No matter how much u disagree with those ideals it might be an idea to listen as it may give u an idea as to why people have these ideals or even enlighten u! I know u'll all be thinking but how can an ideal born from racism or fascism enlighten me well don't u believe u can enlighten those with these ideals!

Hi! just wanted to extend my thanks to this website and to our wonderful secretary of council (Chloe) both these forces have stopped all these arguements happening in my email account!
Yey yey! no more junky mail and long, convoluted, self-indulgent monologues gracing my long suffering Outlook box!
Thanks!

Jack- A few corrections. First of all, I did in fact get more votes than a Reclaim our Union Sabbatical candidate. The reason that you can not find the General Election results on the SU website is because they are not there.

The NUS regional officer DID NOT say that the motion was OK at all; he made a comment to the VP Comms and Ents.

As for the results in the local elections, I find it hard to credit your statements. I am heavily involved in local government and havce researched who won what seats in what areas. I can not find a reference to 'The Socialist Alternative.' Also, the Green Party may have got lots of votes but their share of the vote has shrunk massively since their 1989 heyday. Additionally, they were all but wiped out in their Oxford heartland. I do apologise for making an unfair comment about your dress sense though.

As for the death of the left. Well, 300,000 people dmonstrating in Genoa may prove a point but not everyone there could be described as a socialist. The people on the streets of Rome were in fact protesting about a proposed change in the law to allow companies to make redundancies. Also, socialism can not be described as being a movement as it is in fact an ideology.

I do not want to wipe out races that are 'impure.'

I am not proposing that we should help people who are whit eover others. I think that we should sort out our own domestic problems first. This includes all citizens of this country, whether they are black, white or Martians. I have never said that gay people should be treated for not being 'normal.' As someone who believes in freedom of choice then I can hardly be seen as being anti-gay.

As for the Government Department here at Essex, if you think they have nothing to teach you, why not leave?


I have never descended into racist demagoguery.

Your comments about Darren's comments are similarly untrue. You are asking for assistance but not financial? What assistance do you want then?

As a final comment, I do not appreciate having 'fascist' and 'Nazi' shouted at me or people I am with. If I feel threatened at any time I will take what action I see fit.

Having just re-read the original article, I would like to correct the following part:

'After several attempts to stop the motion failed, Neil Martin tried to amend the motion to include condeming socialism and far left politics. This was quickly rejected by the council. Then Darren Sylvester, who had earlier lost a vote of no confidence, citing the charities act, claimed that this motion was in breach of the act.'

Err... no. My amendment to include references to socialism and far-left politics was passed.

Once again an example of the far left twisting lying. No doubt they will try and claim that this SU Council meeting was 'a detail of history.'

Having just re-read the original article, I would like to correct the following part:

'After several attempts to stop the motion failed, Neil Martin tried to amend the motion to include condeming socialism and far left politics. This was quickly rejected by the council. Then Darren Sylvester, who had earlier lost a vote of no confidence, citing the charities act, claimed that this motion was in breach of the act.'

Err... no. My amendment to include references to socialism and far-left politics was passed.

Once again an example of the far left twisting lying. No doubt they will try and claim that this SU Council meeting was 'a detail of history.'

Normally, I do not debate with the left- usually, there is no point.

On a personal level, I do (as I said at the meeting) find the Socialist Alliance more distasteful than the BNP. Frankly, anything right wing is massively preferable to anything left wing.

The key tenet of the right is that it promotes hard work and individual opportunity. The left does neither- in fact, the left says that if someone has material goods we should seize them because this benefits everybody. Put simply, I am in favour of equality of opportunity rather than equality of outcome.

One of the problems the left has (apart from the fact that it ignores human nature) is that it is fractured. You only have to look at comments like 'but the Socialist Alternative got 4' to see that the left is rather like the scene in 'The Life of Brian' where the members of the Judean Popular Peoples Front sit around arguing about how much they hate the Popular Peoples Front of Judea.

A further problem of the left is that they deny the past. Frequently, you hear comments like "Stalin wasn't a socialist", "Arthur Scargill isn't a socialist" and so on. What are they then? Are they members of the socialist 'movement'? What the left does not like is that these people represent what socialists are like in power.

The main problem for the left, however, is that socialism has never been a grass roots thing. The people who sit around and argue about it are academics and rich kids in student bars who shout stuff like 'up the workers' despite never having done a job themselves (except ones that involv exercising their social conscience, of course). The poor do not want socialism. They want a nice house, a decent car, cheap beer and a foreign holiday every so often.

Thats it folks (sorry, thats a phrase used by an American film studio hell bent on making us drink coke. I'll try to be more politically correct in future).

Being called a "fascist" or a "nazi" by the far-left is a compliment. It shows they've already run out of legitimate debate and are resorting to insults and name calling.

I have just finished reading most of the comments on the "comments" page and I am shocked. All of you are equally immature and have no true purpose: you're just having a playground fight.

The issue at stake concerns the Essex University Students' Union, and no solution will be reached by fighting over political views... that's what elections are for.

The facts of the situation are very confusing because no one person seems capable of telling the true truth and sticking to it.

I humbly suggest that you all get your acts together and have a "civilised" meeting with all political views set aside. You have all been elected for who you are, or for who you put yourselves forward as being and as a body elected by the students, you must act for the students by swalloing your pride and getting down to business. The true winners will not be the ones with the last word on what's racist and what isn't.

Yours sincelery,

A concerned Essex University law student.

PS on politics: This may not be my domain of study, but one thing is for sure: there is no ideal political truth that will work in any place and at any time. Political systems must be adapted according to current social views and economic situations.

In the past couple of centuries, democracy has been favoured in most of Europe and America, but "ideologically" there is no true democracy on the face of Earth, as there has been no true "communist state". Politcial leaders interpret ideologies and apply them as they see fit. In fact, if the USA, well reknowed for its democracy, was a true democracy, the formation of a communist party would not be illegal there. If the USSR had been a true communist state, there would have been no elite of political leaders (I refer here to Stalin and his closely-nit sphere of back stabbing/scratching helpers who replaced the previous elite).

Jack, I suggest that you read the minutes of the meeting.

Stalin, Scargill etc are socialists, as they define themselves as such.

I have checked again, through a number of sources (BBC, LGA, Municipal Journal) and I still can't find the Socialist Alternative. Where did they win these 4 seats? Again, by saying that they are a group made up of former militant, you are proving that the left is hopelessly fractured.

I don't think that the department spews forth right wing rhetoric; they appear to be fairly neutral and if anyhthing, are left-leaning.

WHO GIVES A FUK WAT SPOTTY STUDENT PRICKS GEEKS DO, OR DONT DO, YOU CAN CONDEMN RACISM ALL YOU WANT, WAT COUNTS IS TAKING OUT THE FUKERS, DONT FORGET WAT HAPPENED TO HERR PYM UNFORTYNATE, NAZIS YUR FATE AWAITS YOU. COME AND GET IT, THERES £10,00 WAITING FOR WHO EVER TAKES OUT A FAT PORKER BNP CANDIDATE.

The problem with this site, is that intelligent debate is stifled by militant anarchists who can think of nothing better then the disruption of democracy. The above comments reinforce my opinion that its radical socialists as opposed to radical right wingers, that are anti democracy. if these few 'posters' had their way, we'd be living in a marxist dictatorship.

The problem with this site, is that intelligent debate is stifled by militant anarchists who can think of nothing better then the disruption of democracy. The above comments reinforce my opinion that its radical socialists as opposed to radical right wingers, that are anti democracy. if these few 'posters' had their way, we'd be living in a marxist dictatorship.

The Socialist Alternative is the Name SPEW (Socialist Party of England an Wales / former militant) stood as. Their 2 councillors (retained seats) were Dave Nellist in Coventry and Ian Page in Lewisham. The IWCA (Independant Working Class Association) got Stuart Craft elected in the Northfield Brook ward in Oxford.

HI everybody, as a reader of these articles, it is obvious that the BNP make up statistics about blacks and racism, I have heard they have done so, I know they do so, I have met relatives of BNP members who told me they do so, so SHUT UP YOUR LIES! It is not true to say either that essex is biased agains other races, but why it is adamnt to impose laws to stop such things happening legally, why is this? However didn't we have anti-racism week recently? Who was that imposed by? Surely there is some motions to stop racism on campus...? Surely to say 'racism' is an acceptable term, but 'fascism' is going a bit far? I agree that facism should not be impsed on anybody, and that we have a right as students to live or study on campus with no labels, political ideals, or prejudice pushed upon us by whatever groups... So what is this I hear about the BNP guy stopping this faction against Fascism and Racism. As a foreign national I speak for foreign students on campus, yes blacks are alienated, yes, there are few professors on campus who are black, especially top ranking ones. I believe though, that this is an internalised problem, and not one to be saved from happening by a couple of guys, or just one political group, but by many, and by a top to bottom or bottom to top careful analysis of what is actually happening, bringing to court any abusers of justice, and searching in the bottom of the barrel for the actual abusers of this injustice.
You must talk to the foreign or black students of essex univeristy to see if they can help, how they feel, their experiences, etc. Do not demean them by speaking FOR them, before speaking TO them.
The socialist allience is just another political group, pushing its forces in the world as it sees able, if slightly narrow-mindedly, seeing as it's issues revolve around money issue, race issues and so on. What bothers me is what system would they implement considering they actually got to power- everyone can see a weakness in this aspect of their party- no one can really imagine that they would be partcicpant in a very organised reclaiming of any country, it seems hard to apprehend what exactly they'd do and how they'd go about doing it. Whetever it was they did however, I'm sure it would be much better than if the BNP got to power- whio likes them? Only a few far-right bullys desperate to get to power to prove they are better than others? What for? Surely they would win nothing out of it in the end? the whole world would laugh at them! They are the sole losers as they probably have very little in terms of an interesting political or social life I imagine, seeing as they limit their friends this much...
There is no point going back in history and speculating what would have happened if the whites civilzaed or didin't cvivilze...surely if the 'whites' as you call them hadn't, then it would have been another colour group...depending how far back you go.. it's only a fight based on the idea of suprmacy- there is no such thing, only a histry of luck and defensiveness, and holding onto power for dear luck...through terror and division. Were not all culpable, surely the division between 'blacks' and 'whites', was created in the first place by those who wanted to keep us apart and fight aginst each other...I'll leave you now, think about those things I've said...

 http://www.vdare.com/misc/rushton_iq.htm

I would like to respond to Steven Fitzpatrick who said that the SU council are "gunning" for Darran. I would like to point out to him that the writiers of the article are not members of the SU council, nor are most (except 4 Including Darran and Neil Martin) of those who have replied. I myself am a member of the SU council and believe that you are being unfair judging the SU council on comments by those who are not memebers. I believe that both Darran and Neil do a good job and I respect their opinions on such matters and believe that debate is nessicery. I don't agree entirly with their views, however I do not feel that anyone should base they position on this matter on anything found on this website. Further more I would like to state that EVERYONE should be allowed to vioce they opinion, no matter if they are far left or far right.

Jack- Apologies to you regarding the local election results. Obviously, my sources were wrong.

Jack- Apologies to you regarding the local election results. Obviously, my sources were wrong.

re: Laura's post... i'd like to draw attention to the above article i have just been reading that was posted on this site.

 http://www.vdare.com/misc/rushton_iq.htm

If you are going to make a point, i suggest you attempt to make it logical and persuasive, not just write utter nonsense about one political group to make the one you support sound better.

Unfortunately we do _not_ have free speech in this country. The Human Rights act does not gurantee free speech, it only gurantees free speech _within limits_ (unfree speech then!). People can still be persecuted for expressing their political beliefs.

The EU has been considering implementing new EU-wide laws making "Racism" and "Xenophobia" crimes in Britain for the first time ever. Firstly, while these laws might seem well intentioned they are an all out assault on individual rights. They are based on the German model which is so oppressive that anyone who dares question even a small part of the Holocaust can be imprisoned, yet they are free to question the war crimes in Jenin. The new laws would make "insulting ethnic groups" illegal, it may sound OK - who would want to insult ethnic groups anyway? But the fact that we already have laws against racial abuse shows there really is no need for the law. The real agenda is to silence any debate on race and immigration by bending these new dangerous laws so that they cover even fair comment. I imagine "xenophobia" would be used against anyone who dares question the supremacy of the EU.

The day I respect anti-fascists is the day they start admitting and giving equal coverage to racism against whites, and when they stop exploiting the race situation and ethnic minorities for their own Marxist ends. The tendancy to scream racism where there is none, or to hype up racism to create the impression that a whole institution is racist (i.e the MacPherson report) has its roots in their aim to destroy our national institutions and remodel them along their warped ideas. At the end of the day, while I know many are sincere, a great many of them, especially at the top have a bigger agenda than just stopping racism. The mere fact that every anti-fascist organisation is linked to the militant left also demonstrates this.

Mike, you asked me to comment on the IQ test thing fairly, but the problem with that is that is is complete racist bollox. For a start, IQ tests prove nothing, not even intelligence as they are desigened to do, and this is a well known fact. It's obvious the authur has a racist agenda when he says "The highest average IQs are found among .... the mainly White populations of North America and Australasia" This is obviously trying to infer that any non-white countries are thick, which is a racist statement.

This test has no basis in reality, it's likely that if the same tests were used around the world then the questions would have a bias towards western culture, and that could cause the effect of making people think that western society is more intelligent. If the same test wasn't used around the world then we have the problem that the tests may be unfair.

The test results don't really prove how intelligent a nation is, but if a nation is rich it can afford better schooling for it's citizens and that could also cause a percieved effect that western cultures are more intelligent, when it only proves that western cultures have better schools. These tests are unfair and the only conclusion we can draw from them is that poorer countries need better schools, and we can work that out for ourselves

hey maybe the white and asian people are more intelligent, maybe its true? look at our country and then look at theirs.

Well, if you look at various studies that have been conducted martin, you'll find the IQ of the average Japanese citizen is greater than that of White America, Briton, Australia etc. Does that make me racist against people of white European descent for saying so? I dont think so. Its fact. My comment to Laura was posted because of the clear flaws in her argument. She was just spouting marxist/socialist drivvel and claiming one party was unacceptable and another not. I was saying that was flawed.

Pointing out anthropological and genetic differances isnt racist at all.

Pointing out biological differences is probably not racist, but often the context is. My point was that the authur was deliberately making the point that the populations of the countries was mainly white in a way as if to imply that white people were more intelligent than people of other races without any other information about her study to prove this. It certainly seems to me the person carried out the study with a racist agenda and no a scientific one. You can prove almost anything with statistics

Wow, that study is mind boggling. Who would have thought that people of a Western background would tend to do better in a test culturally biased towards the west....

Amazing, truly amazing.

Perhaps next they're publish a study saying that people born in France, on average, speak French better than someone not from France!

Or maybe it'll be that the average person born into a rich family will go to a more expensive school than someone born into a poor family.

The point being- IQ tests are bullshit and culturally biased. They measure nothing more than the how good someone is at taking IQ tests. Of course people from certain countries are going to do better, it's the nature of the test. Making a culturally unbiased test is totally impossible.

If it was culturally biased towards white culture then why is it that Japanese people did better than white people?

Perhaps it's because Orientals and Europeans have a more advanced culture in general and this puts a higher value on intelligence. Of course, you could make out a case that worshipping idols, mutilating womens genitalia, making "muti" from childrens body parts and raping babies to cure AIDS is an equally advanced culture to ours, but I think you'd run into problems.

The truth is, the culture comes from the people, and the country is made from the culture. But it all goes back to the people, people make the difference.

which created nuclear weapons, apartheid, the holocaust and neil martin

I've been following this debate for a few days now and I have to say that the tone and quality of it is absolutely, appallingly bad. You guys are students?

In 1992 I was a student at Essex and I became involved in a campaign against a nazi cell, made up of 6 fellas, operating in Ipswich. Everyone knew who they were and where they were living, and meeting (a tattoo shop, funny that eh?).

The district ANL decided to launch a campaign to flush them out of the town. First, they leafletted the town centre for 3 or 4 saturdays running. Then they held a public meeting, attended by - amongst others - a sympathetic local councillor, during the course of which general agreement was found to hold a march through the town.

One notable thing which struck me was that, although racist attacks had shot through the roof over the previous 2 years the police had no record on this, presumably because were not logging any of them of 'racially motivated'. So much for Huw's laughable comment about there being 60% more attacks on whites than on blacks, "according to figures from the police". Huh? I don't know about you lot, but if I want figures on this then the police are the LAST people I'm going to go to...

The march was smaller than we'd hoped for, about 200. But that was still plenty big enough to make an impact on the town - small but LOUD! The campaign gathered momentum from there and, I have to say, the response from the people of Ipswich was on the whole absolutely brilliant. To cut a long story short, these six BNP tossers had moved out of Ipswich within 3 months of the march taking place.

Who did this? It wasn't the local council, it wasn't the local MP, it certainly wasn't the filth, it was a grassroots campaign largely backed by the ordinary people of Ipswich, along with workers, trade unionists, activists and students from across the district. And it worked.

Only my opinion of course but it sounds to me, judging from some of the preceding comments, that Essex Uni could do with similar steadfastness today from the student body.

There's no room for half-heartedness or for wanky liberal hand-wringing over 'democracy' when you deal with these people - nazis want to smash democracy but, ...

THEY SHALL NOT PASS.

Solidarity, Pete

For someone so comitted to democracy you sound very undemocratic.

And you think described the police as 'FILTH' brings any credibility to your argument at all? All you are doing is pandering to your militant marxist chums.

I also choose to ignore posts from people that hide behind pseudonyms and arent openly debating issues with their real identity.

that way you can ignore what you don't like because people you disagree use (gasp!) nicknames, and (how dare they?) don't want people contacting them personally and just want to contribute to the debate. mike, you are an asset to democracy. maybe we should get rid of the secret ballot too, then we'd stop this dodgy practice of people keeping their identity seperate from their opinions...

I have no object to people contributing to intelligent debate using 'handles'. My object is to people whose entire posts are just abuse.

Examples being Herr Pipsqueak unfortunate with his random abusive messages that contributed nothing to the debate.

Also I'd like to point out that pete's comment about the figures being wrong, in reference to the whites being subject to more racist attacts then other ethnic groups, because the police contributed to the material behind that number - is just totally ignorant of the facts. The figures, published by the home office and the HMSO, are taken from crime recordings. These are statements taken from the aggrieved in offences in England and Wales.
The victim is asked if he/she believed an attack or crime commited against them was commited out of racist,homophobic,religious hatred etc. The police are not out to create fictitious crime statistics. Posts like this that just say that the government recorded incident statistics are wrong, without pointing out a reason other than the concieved marxist opinion that every facet of the state is out to get them, are totally erroneous. Indeed thats one of my problems with accepting anything from a marxist/socialist viewpoint, you rely heavily on propaganda and make no attempts to actively investigate things.

You'd soon see what state society would decay into if the 'filth' or 'PIGS' as people have been stating on here, stopped doing their jobs and left the violent criminals and gangs to rampage out of control. The mugging and beatings and rape and buglaries, assaults, thefts, basically every offence you can name, would go through the roof. The only reason you have a relative level of free speech is because of the protection the state affords you.
The more thats erroded by the police being forced to act like glorifed social workers and take onboard more and more politically correct working policy, the more society will decay. The majority of people in this country don't want freeloading, unemployed, lazy socialists that rant on about 'up the workers' and about 'working class endeavour' all the time whilst never doing a days work themselves and spending their time debating about how good 'marx' was etc.

What the people of this country want is a state where they can feel safe at night and in the day, where women and children can go about without fearing assaults and rapes, where their property isnt constantly being appropiated by criminal entity's, where their taxes are being investied in a flagship national health service, education system, welfare state for those that are genuinely unemployed or disabled, pensions for the elderly etc, not squandered on economic migrants and assylum seekers, counselling for criminals, etc etc.

why the clearup rate is only 20%, and this is only of reported crimes. it is also based on police figures which are easily fiddled to make police chiefs appear more adept.

also you cannot ignore things like the fact that blacks are far more likely to be stopped by police than whites and that police waste a lot of time on trivial offences such as cannabis smoking, while real criminals- rapists and muggers are not caught.

true, there may be the odd police success here and there, but the fact remains that the police force is rotten to the core

With regard to the Ipswich campaign referred to in my last post, the only reason we had figures on racial attacks is because they were being logged by the local library - the police reported 0, nil, none. I would suggest this kind of speaks for itself, along with the outcome from the MacPherson inquiry - you know, the one about them being "institutionally racist".

Given your references to official crime figures Mike, I take it you're aware of the British Crime Survey which was published a couple of months ago? Annual report, published by the National Crime Survey unit, drawing on data collated from the police and the Home Office. One of the conclusions from the BCS is that crime is falling, and has been for the past ten years (I cannot accept that this is because of the police - who are actually not very good at solving crime). Yes, that's right, crime is falling. You'd never believe it listening to politicians and the media!

It's easy to see how governments manipulate information, and it's equally easy to see why it would be regarded as far more politically useful to have everyone believe that Britain is being submerged under a crime-wave. You're being led by the nose on this one and you can't even see it!

As for socialists being lazy, I hope you're not referring to me - I work full-time, study part-time, and tend to a family (fuck, I even had to work while I was doing my degree at Essex). So, thanks but no thanks for that, it was a bloody stupid thing to say.

I never thought I'd find myself quoting Hitler on this site but there you go, a first time for everything I spose. Six months after being appointed chancellor, Adolf, in a reminiscent mood, said the following about the success of his party:

"Only one thing could have stopped the growth of our movement, and that is if our opponents had smashed - with the utmost brutality - the nucleus of our new movement."

I think we can assume he wasn't talking out the back of his head when he said this, and that's why we say today:

"SMASH THE NAZIS, BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!"

In solidarity, Pete

The problem lies with government, not with the police.

The police are there to enforce the criminal law, not to make it.

And whilst they have a relative degree of autonomy in how they do this, when it comes to soft drugs it’s the government that are radically opposed to them, not the police themselves.

Nothing would please the police more than being able to concentrate on fighting serious and organised criminal activity and not having to deal with petty drugs arrests for possession of small amounts of soft drugs and the subsequent paperwork

Its the police themselves that have called for a re evaluation of the law on cannabis, or who have instigated more relaxed attitudes to those found in possession, and its government that have taken radical steps to get in the way of this, insisting on all drugs offences resulting in a charge or a caution

The rescheduling of cannabis from class B to C will certainly cut back on both police paperwork and time and the invasion of peoples civil liberties.

Whilst cannabis remains illegal to possess the police are pretty much duty bound to enforce the law, so what you need to do is get the government to change the law.

Thou what I would also say is this, don’t smoke cannabis in public places and you are unlikely to be caught. IF you choose to smoke cannabis in you own home, the police are hardly likely to interfere with this unless you start openly dealing it.

***

The clear up rate for crime is so low because of amount of time spent dealing with paperwork, waiting for solicitors to turn up detained persons, waiting for social workers to bother to come in for people under their care etc.
Also because often witnesses and the aggrieved are uncooperative or wish to give negative statements saying they don’t want the police to investigate.
Also there is the issue that many people in the local ethnic communities regard the police as the enemy because of the propaganda about the police being ‘racist’s or disinterested in the concerns of non whites etc’ and thus they don’t come forward and form working partnerships and liaise with the police and provide intelligence on who is committing serious crime or involved in dealing heroin and crack in their neighbourhoods.
Further to this you have to add into the agenda that there just aren’t enough officers patrolling to stop a lot of the minor thefts from and of motor vehicles, burglaries, criminal damages etc because they are thin on the ground and are concentrating on other offences. More uniformed patrols, less paperwork would equal a higher clear up rate.

The whole system is rotten, because of the lack or resources and the insistence of completion of pedantic documentation on everything by government. Also the police do KEEP arresting the same people for the SAME offences time and time again only to see liberal magistrates or judges let them off with a petty fine or a light sentence only for them to be released and immediately start re offending. So much time is wasted with a hard core of problematic individuals within each police division/borough that could be spent targeting serious criminals, intelligence gathering, community police work etc.

***

The police force itself is without compromise NOT rotten to the core, and the police see it as offensive to be accused of racism or harassment of minorities. You look at areas outside of the large cities and you'll see that blacks are in fact less likely to be stopped than whites.

The reasons for blacks being stopped a lot in the larger urban areas where they might make up a significant amount of the population is simple. It’s because they are committing the crime. If you have an area that’s 99% black, then of course you'd expect that 99% of the crime in that area would on average be committed by blacks on blacks.

Just as in areas where 99% of the population is white, its going to be white on white.

The police have to follow the guidelines in section C of PACE when they stop search people and have to have legitimate grounds and reasons to do so. I doubt very much there are any police officers who just drive around looking for black people to stop and question. But when a report comes in of a street crime and the witness/aggrieved to it describes the perpetrator as Black, then of course, its only going to be blacks stopped.

Also, London for example, is plagued by immigrants, both illegal and those that have gained legitimate entry to the UK but then engaged in organised criminal enterprise.
I am not referring to black British nationals, but to the massive tide of Nigerians and Caribbean’s that have come here solely to operate criminal gangs. These black gangs are responsible for the vast majority of serious drug related crime and firearms related murders and attempted murders in the Metropolitan area.

And also.... this is not meant as racist, but the majority of non blacks who are victims of crime committed by blacks, can only describe the perpetrator as 'a black male' or a 'black female' and occasionally you get build, stocky, fat, slim, tall or short.

This is because if you are a victim of a phone snatch or a bag snatcher or a street mugging only major things about the perpetrator stand out, build and colour, so basically all blacks meeting that description would be stopped and questioned by units responding. And it’s a sad fact that the majority of street robberies are being committed by gangs made up of ethnic minorities. Just as it’s a sad fact that most violent assaults where alcohol is involved are committed by whites.

Sorting this is simple. If local communities adopted a zero tolerance attitude to the criminals living amongst them and implemented some sort of intelligence conduit through which details of criminals and their names and activities were passed on to the police, then the police could target operations more effectively against those persons. And even more effectively, if you are black, don’t accuse the police of having a racist agenda when you are stopped. The police themselves are trying to root out and remove real racists from within the Police Service, and accusing the majority of officers of being racists, when they are not, just results in investigations against those officers accused which results in keeping them off patrol and keeping them from targeting criminals.

I think you are confused to some degree.

Right wing DOES NOT = NAZI

people that are willing to stand up and say whats rotten about society and where the faults lie with immigration policy and the fact we have become a society hell bent on becoming too politically correct to function... and pointing out who is commiting the crime, in which areas and why and what should be done about it DOES NOT = NAZI


Skinheads with swastika tatoos who collect third reich or pseudo third reich memorabilia and pratle on about the holocaust not having happened... = NAZIS.

The SWP and ANL would have people beleive that anyone that doesnt support their loony leftist marxist philosophies and politica ideologies must be the later. When in fact at most they are right wing and probably in all reality just libertarian realists.

..but I reckon I can distinuish between right-wing libertarians and nazis. I can see that you're determined to sit on the fence on this one - so be it. In the unlikely event that the British Nazi Party come to power you and all your liberal mates can pat eachother on the back for having acted in the best interests of democracy, while the BNP is actively dismantling it. Cheers.

In 1922 the German left refused to build a popular front with the SPD (Germany's then equivalent of the Labour party) on the grounds that they were "social fascists". The split which arose from this damaging and catastrophic policy allowed the nazis sufficient room to lay roots. Meanwhile, the liberal intelligentsia produced exactly the same arguments as yours in support of the democratic ideal. Again...

Those who do not understand history are destined to repeat it. We have absolutely no intention of letting this happen again.

Fraternally, Pete

So, London is "plagued" by immigrants is it mate? Sounds like racist bollocks to me. As for your comments about caribbeans - my wife is a black, caribbean immigrant; I'm sure she'll be fascinated to learn that she came here "solely to operate criminal gangs."

Deary me, political debate at Essex has gone downhill since I was there!

Where did I say 'all carribean immigrants are gang members' or 'the majority of carribean immigrants are gang members' i didnt. you are just again resorting to twisting the words of people that dont agree with you marxist ideologies.

I was saying that the gangs feuding in london over the sale of drugs and committing the majority of gun crime... which I will point out is mainly Black on Black violence, are recent immigrants either legal or illegal from the carribean and nigeria.

This is fact. I wasnt saying.. all immigrants from these places are gang members.

I suggest if you dont beleive me you take a look at the literature published by the MET Police on operation trident... which i will also hasten to add is headed by a senior Black police officer.

No one is being racist here, you are simply trying to make it look like people are to encourage support for your ultra leftish lunacy

Oh dear... ok then, these are your words, lifted straight off your last post:


"Also, London for example, is plagued by immigrants, both illegal and those that have gained legitimate entry to the UK but then engaged in organised criminal enterprise.
I am not referring to black British nationals, but to the massive tide of Nigerians and Caribbean’s that have come here solely to operate criminal gangs."

That's some memory problem you've got there mate!

YES i said london is being plagued by gangs of immigrants that are hell bent on criminal enterprise, kosovans and albanians commiting begging, thefts, deceptions, gangs from the carribean and nigeria feuding over crack and heroin etc. I certainly didnt say all the immigrants from these countries are doing this. Just that the majority of the gangs are made up of recent immigrants from these countries.

And yes i did say there are loads of people coming here from those countries hell bent on setting up criminal enterprise here. But I certainly didnt say that the majority of people FROM those countries were coming here to do that or that a majority of immigrants in general were criminals. I think our main concern from immigration is economic parasitisation. People moving from areas of low economic growth to wealthier areas... and the main threat there is from Eastern Europeans and former soviet bloc nations.

But you cant sit back and tell me you havent noticed a rise in black on black gun crime spurned on by a fight over drugs territory in London, or refute the governments own statistics on the rise of illegal immigration.

PLAGUE of immigrants? MASSIVE WAVE of blacks? You don't think your choice of language here is a little fruity? This is just racist shite, what constitutes a "massive wave" exactly? For someone who doesn't agree with the far-right you don't seem to mind adopting their language.

And have you been to Kosovo lately? Isn't that the country we bombed back into the dark ages just a few years ago? A country which has been ravaged by ten years of vicious civil war..? If you can think of a better way of producing refugees than large-scale bombing you let me know yeah? Because I've been racking my brains for years, and I can't think of one.

My partner has now read every post you've placed on this thread and she's firmly decided you're a twat. I'm finding it increasingly hard to disagree with her.

And you reckon we're loony. Fuck's sake.

MASSIVE WAVE of blacks? - again a misqoute of what was actually said...

Another problem I see with socialists is that they are always quick to swear and use abusive language etc when they know they've met persuasive arguments.

And, more to the point, are behind the times...

Kosovo is a relatively safe place to live. Thanks to NATO the 'evil' milosovich who is to be vilified for protecting his people and ridding his country of religious extremists.... KLA terrorists with links to AL-QAEDA, is now before a war crimes tribunal where luckily he'll be found guily no matter what evidence is presented in his defence. ( in case you don't get it, I'm being sarcastic).

... As to your comment about kosovo thou

I'd like to point out that there is a freely elected coalition national assembly running the state and there is no current or percieved threat to minority citizens there. Whilst at the time of the conflict there was justification for granting asylum to kosovans, this is no longer the case. Asylum should be temporary. In that it should be afforded until the original threat is no longer perceived and then repatriation to the assylum seeker/refugees state should be actively sought.

And in case you were wondering the situation is that
Kosovo's voters have elected, through a proportional system, a 120-member assembly.

As a form of "positive discrimination", 10 seats were reserved for Serbs and another 10 for the other ethnic minorities, mostly Roma, Turks and Bosniaks.

Women make up 28% of the assembly, with 34 seats.

So its undemocratic, but intentionally so to create a system where all are represented.

Kosovans and albanians should therefore be repatriated back to their state as they have no reasonable grounds to claim asylum status.

And i've never said i dont agree with the far right.

I'll categorically re state what i've said already...

I look at each political issue on its merits. I dont follow a far right or far left, conservativist, liberalist or labour affiliation. This doesnt mean I am sat on the fence, it means i decided each issue on its individual merits.

I do have right wing opinions on some issues and I have left wing opinions on others, furtherly I am inclined to have more libertarian opinions on other issues. I'm also not a victim of a marxist propaganda machine and actually research and investigate 'statistics' presented by the government and various other political and quasi political entitys to make sure whats being said is accurate.

IN all honesty thou, if a few random marxists or Trotskyites want to label me as a facist or a nazi because I don't buy into their 'socialist ideology' I'm not really bothered.

then, if you want to be pedantic. Or are you going to deny having said that as well?

I think we can safely assume there's little difference - and you still haven't explained what constitutes a massive tide

My point here is that your choice of language is emotive, a point which you've chosen to dodge.

I do not consider the language I have used to be emotive.

The only emotive language I have seen on this thread so far has been the continuous cry of ' NAZI ' from Far Left.

There once was a college freshman named George who thought he knew it all.
One night over dinner, George got into an argument with his father. The
argument began when the young student tried to explain to his father that as
White people, they should be held accountable for all the evils that they
had inflicted upon non-Whites througout history. George explained: "Because
of European racism, we stole the Indians' land, we held blacks in slavery,
we persecuted the Jews, and we plundered the environment. We've been
oppressive racists for thousands of years so it's only fair that we pay
economic reparations for all the harm we've done to the world. I'm pleased
to see that we are ending our political and economic domination of the
oppressed peoples."

George's dad was shocked to hear such talk. "Who put such commie-pinko
nonsense into your head, boy? Did one of your sandal-wearing hippie college
professors teach you that?" the father asked.

To which the son replied: "That's the truth dad. My anthropology professor,
Dr.Irving Silverstein, says so. He ought to know. Dr. Silverstein is a
well-respected Ph.D. People of your generation just don't understand because
you were raised in a White supremacist racist society. That's why I've come
to admire Dr. Rev. Martin Luther King as the greatest man in American
history. He stood up to the racists of your generation. Because of him, my
generation of White kids is completely colorblind."

The father angrily replied: "That's bullshit! I've always been fair-minded
and tolerant of people from all backgrounds and races. I haven't 'oppressed'
anybody, and furthermore there's nothing wrong with being proud of one's own
people, including the European race of people. Your race is in your blood.
It's like an extension of your biological family and you ought to be proud
of your European heritage and identity, just like every other racial group
in America is proud of its. Why is it OK for them to have a strong sense of
racial identity but it's evil for us Europeans to feel that way?"

The young "intellectual" laughed at his father. "Come on dad, that's the
kind of crap Hitler tried to peddle. Those racist attitudes were discredited
years ago. There's only one race and that's the human race. Diversity is our
greatest strength. Differences in so-called "race" are as insignificant as
differences in belly buttons. And besides, UN statistics now show that low
White birth rates, along with the fact that we live in an multicultural
society, will mean that Europeans and their ethnocentrist and racist culture
will have died out by the end of the century," young George said.

Turning red with anger, the father yelled: "You are a walking cliché you
know that boy? And you think it's a good thing that the European peoples of
the world will have faded out and ceased to exist?" Young George replied; "I
think it's great! It will mean the end of racism and the end of hate. The
oppressed peoples of the world would have been better off if us racist
Europeans had never existed to begin with."

Suddenly there was a blast of cold wind, an explosion, and a huge smoke
cloud. When the smoke had settled, George found himself alone and lost in a
cold open field. An angel named Clarence then appeared to him and said "Well
George, you've got your wish."

George asked: "Where am I? What's going on here? And who are you?"

The angel answered, "George, I'm Clarence the Angel. I was sent here to show
you what the world would have been like if Europeans, or Whites, had never
existed. You now live in a world where Europeans never existed."

"Oh. That's cool. I'll have no problem adapting because there's not a racist
bone in my body. And when I get back to my world, I'll be able to tell my
professor and my friends how great this non-racist world was. Say, I'm
freezing my ass off out here. Where's the nearest motel?"

"Motel?" replied the angel. "There are no motels here in what was once
called North America. But there are some caves up in those mountains where
you can find shelter."

"Caves? No way man. I want a nice warm bed to sleep in."

"I don't think you understand George. There are no buildings here in
non-white America because the evil Europeans never came here to build them.
Whites never existed, remember? The natives live in tents. Would you like to
go meet some local Indians? Perhaps they'll let you stay in a tent."

"A tent? But it's 10 degrees outside?...Oh well. It's better than a cave I
suppose. Let's go talk to these Indians...... Wait a second, are these
Indians friendly or hostile?"

"Why, George, that's a racist question to ask. Just because some Indians
were brutal savages who scalped their victims alive, it doesn't mean they
all were" said the angel sarcastically.

"I know that Clarence. And I'm not a racist. I hate racism. Nonetheless, I'd
feel safer if I could have a gun to defend myself if they turn out to be
violent."

"Gun?" replied the angel. "There are no guns for you to defend yourself
with. Firearms were invented by evil Europeans. Though we could make a spear
with those twigs over there."

"That's too much work. Give me a telephone then. I'll call the Indians to
ask if it's OK."

"Telephone"? replied the angel. There are no telephones here. Alexander
Graham Bell was another evil white man, so he never existed. No Europeans
remember?" "Forget it then" replied George. "I'll sleep in the damn cave."

Upon arriving at the cave, a shivering George asked the angel for a lighter
so that he could light a fire. "A lighter?" replied Clarence. "There are no
lighters here, and no matches. Those are European gadgets and evil Europeans
never existed remember? If you want to get warm, you need to do like the
locals do and start rubbing twigs together."

"Oh come on man! You mean to tell me these people still rub sticks together
for fire?"

"That's right George. The Indians live exactly as they did before the evil
pilgrims arrived from Europe just a few centuries ago." said the angel
sarcastically.

"I refuse to stay in this cold cave and I damn sure ain't gonna light a fire
with twigs, and I refuse to sleep in a teepee. I'll go to South America. I
can make it in a warmer climate and I'll adapt quickly to the great Incan
civilization I learned about at college. Since European racists like
Columbus, Cortez and Pizzaro never existed, the Incans will still be there.
... I need a car"

"Car?" replied the angel. "There are no cars here. Daimler and Benz, the
evil German inventors of the internal combustion engine, were never
born..nor was Henry Ford. There are no paved roads either. This is a world
without evil Europeans remember?"

"No cars! Oh. I'll just have to take a train."

"There are no trains in this world either George. Evil Europeans weren't
here to build locomotive engines or to discover the many uses of coal, oil
and gas, or to build trains or lay tracks. But I'll allow you to cheat just
a bit. Grab hold of my magic robe and we'll fly south."

George touched the angel's robe and they flew south until they arrived in an
abandoned mud hut in the midst of Incan territory. George was grateful for
the warm weather but it wasn't long until he began to complain about the
heat and humidity.

"Clarence, this hut is a little shithole and I'm sweating up a storm here.
Get me an air-conditioner please."

"Air-conditioner?" replied the angel. "There are no air-conditioners here.
Air conditioning and refrigeration were inventions created by evil White
men." "What?!! You mean to tell me that in the year 2002 these people still
haven't figured out a way to keep themselves or their food cool? a
frustrated George asked.

"No George, they haven't. And they never will."

"This is ridiculous. Let's go to the main city to see the Emperor. I can't
live like like this. Where's a car...oh I forget...no cars! Dammit I'll
walk. let's go."

After walking through the jungle for about an hour or so, it began to get
dark. George then asked Clarence to give him a flashlight so that he could
see. "Flashlight? Sorry George, but Thomas Edison was an evil White man
too...and he was never born. There are some branches over there if you want
to make a torch."

"Never mind that!" George shouted back.

By morning time, Clarence and George had arrived at the temple of the
Incans. A bloody human sacrifice was in progress. George turned to Clarence
and cried, "They're going to butcher that poor soul! Somebody has got to
stop this. What horrible murdering beasts! Can't anyone stop them?"

The angel replied "I'm afraid not. Ritual killings are common place
here."Those evil European racists like Columbus, Cortez and Pizzaro never
existed so the Incans just continued their brutal ways. In fact, it was the
oppressed peoples themselves who made up the bulk of the Spanish armed
forces. The people saw the Spaniards as liberators who would rid them of the
oppressive Incan and Mayan rulers and give them a better life."

"I can't blame them for helping the Spaniards then. This is a horrible
place. Get me out of this shithole now!" said George.

'Where would you like to go?" Clarence replied.

George said: "Take me to Africa, maybe there's a more advanced and humane
civilization there that I can fit into. Where the nearest airport?"

"Oh, I forgot...no Wright Brothers." George said. "How about a boat?"

"Boats?" replied the angel. "I'm afraid the most seaworthy rafts available
to you won't be of much help in crossing the vast Atlantic Ocean. The great
Viking sailors and European navigators never existed. No Phoenicians, no
Leif Erikson, no Henry the Navigator, no Columbus, no Magellan, no Hudson
and no Robert Fulton. Even if you could build your own ship, there would be
no compass for you to navigate with and no sextant either. I'm afraid you're
stuck here George."

"Can I touch your robe and fly to Africa then" asked George.

"You're cheating again George, but all right. Touch my robe and we'll fly to
Africa."

When they arrived in Africa, George saw thousands of half-naked African
tribesmen being herded along a dirt path. They were guarded by other
Africans with spears. "What are they doing to those poor men?" George asked
Clarence.

"They are being enslaved by another tribe. Slavery was common in Africa long
before the whites arrived." Clarence said."In fact, most of the slaves who
were shipped to the Americas were sold to the slave traders by African
tribal leaders."

"That's so sad.' George said. "I want to meet Martin Luther King. Since his
White assassin never existed, this great man should still be alive. He's
probably a great tribal chief somewhere and leader of an advanced
civilization. He will free these slaves from their African masters. Take me
to him Clarence."

Clarence led George to a little hut deep in the heart of Africa. The naked
women and children looked at George in wonder. The young men were out on a
hunt but the older men stayed behind. George was led to the dingy little hut
of the tribal witchdocter and spiritual leader. There he saw a wild-looking
man with a necklace of teeth around his neck and a huge ring pierced through
his nose. "What the hell is that? George asked.

"Meet Witch-doctor Matunbo Lutamba Kinga" Clarence said. He never became
Reverend Martin Luther King because there were no universities or seminaries
built to educate him. Europeans weren't there to create such opportunities.
But he did become the tribe's spiritual leader. He specilaizes in casting
evil spells. Perhaps he can help you?"

The witch doctor gazed in wonder at George. Then he motioned to his henchmen
to seize young George. The tribesmen grabbed hold of George and tied him to
a nearby tree.

"Stop it! Let me go. What are they going to do to me?" cried George
hysterically.

"They're going to perform a ritual killing on you George. The good doctor
King...I mean Kinga -- believes that by cutting your heart out while you are
still alive, it will bring good fortune and fertility to his tribe," laughed
Clarence.

"Clarence! Clarence! Help me Clarence! Help me!

"But George, you told me that you wanted to go to Africa and to meet your
hero Reverend King."

George said: "This part of Africa has not developed yet. I can see that now.
Take me to North Africa where Egypt and Carthage established great
civilizations. Just get me out of here, please."

Just as the witch doctor's spear was about to carve out George's heart,
George vanished into thin air. He then found himself on the banks of the
river Nile in Egypt.

"Thank you Clarence. Thank you," George said. "I don't understand it
Clarence. Why does so much of the world remain so brutal and primitive? I
learned during Black History Month about many talented black inventors and
scientists. Garrett Morgan, George Washington Carver, Benjamin Banneker,
Granville Woods. Then there's Dr. Carson, the preeminent brain surgeon in
all of America. Where are these men?"

Clarense replied: "Don't you understand yet? America, and Africa, exist
exactly as they did before the Europeans discovered them. Civilization as
you had known it had only been introduced to these people just a few
centuries ago by the Europeans. There are no universities, no hospitals, no
means of transportation other than animals, no science, no medicine, no
machines. In fact, the wheel hasn't even been discovered in Sub-Saharan
Africa! Those black scientists, inventors, doctors, athletes, and
entertainers you speak of were never given the opportunity to realize their
full human potential because Europeans weren't around to introduce higher
civilization and learning to them. There are no George Washington Carvers in
this non-European world, no Dr. Carsons, no Booker T. Washingtons, no
Benjamin Bannekers, no Michael Jordans, no Oprah Winfreys, no Bill Cosbys,
no..."

"Stop it! That can't be!" cried George. "Let's walk over to the great
pyramids of Egypt right now and I'll show you one of the great wonders of
the world .....built by non-Whites"

They walked a few miles before George stopped and asked where the nearest
toilet was. "Toilets?" replied the angel. There are no toilets or urinals in
this world. Plumbing was developed by evil Europeans. The people in this
non-White world still relieve themselves in open fields."

Clarence turned around so George could do his business. "I need some toilet
paper." George said.

"Toilet paper?" replied the angel. "There..."

"I know. I know. Toilet paper hasn't been invented yet. Just hand me a rag
then".

Clarence obliged and the two of them went on their way.

"I don't understand. According to my recollections from Geography class, the
great pyramids should be near this very spot. We ought to be able to see
them from miles away," said George.

"Well, George, I'm sure your professors at the college never told you this,
but the ancient Egyptians were not black or brown. They were Caucasians. The
anthropologists who examined the Egyptian mummies confirmed this fact. There
are no pyramids and no Sphinx either. And the Carthaginians were White too."

George became depressed, but he was determined to prove his beliefs. "What's
in Europe?" he asked.

"Europe became populated by Huns and other Asiatic tribes. They've settled
down a bit but life is much the same as it is in North America. A nomadic
existence based on hunting and food gathering. No great cities, no science,
no buildings, no culture, no fine art - just a hard daily struggle against
life and the elements of nature. In a Europe without evil Whites, the Roman
Empire never existed nor did the Greeks. There was no Renaisance either."

"Take me to Asia then. Surely the great civilizations of Persia, India,
China, and Japan will suit me" George said. "Clarence, to the Taj Mahal
please." "The Taj Mahal?" replied the angel. "Don't you know that the
ancient Persian and Indian civilizations were established by ancient
Indo-European tribes who crossed the Himalayas? They are the ones who
civilized India and built the Taj Mahal. Those are the great civilizations
that Marco Polo, Columbus, and others were searching for.Did you know that
Iran is Persian for "land of the Aryan?"

George said: "Don't tell me that the Indians were White men! That can't be.
In the world I came from, I knew many Indians and they were not White!"

Clarence explained: "As the centuries passed, the Indo-Europeans who created
Indian civilization intermarried with the native majorities who populated
the Indian subcontinent. Gradually there were less and less evil White
people until they faded out completely, along with the advanced civilization
they had built. You will notice that there are still a few white-skinned and
fair-haired Indians and Pakistanis around today -- in the world you came
from that is.

George became worried. He knew he could never fit into the harsh primitive
world he had been thrust into. Suddenly he thought of Japan. "Japan! I'll
show you now Clarence. Take me to Japan. If the Japanese can make TVs and
cameras then I'm sure I'll find a decent civilization that I can live in."

Clarence transported George to Japan. George observed that Japanese society
was the most orderly, advanced and civil that he had seen, but it seemed as
if almost everyone was either a rice farmer, a fisherman, or a soldier.
There were no cars, no skyscapers, no lights, no stereos, no sciences, no
technologies, no universities. It was a stagnant agricultural society that
seemed to have reached its high water mark and was incapable of moving
forward. George knew he could not live here either.

Clarence explained to Geeorge: "Even the industrious Japanese and Chinese
peoples had to rely on the evil Europeans to build the modern Asia that you
had in mind. In this world, Japan exists exactly as it did before Commodore
Perry's American naval ships arrived in Japan in the 1850s. There's no
industry, no technology, no Fuji film, no Sony, no Hitachi, no Panasonic, no
Toyota, no Sushi bars, no baseball...none of the trappings or comforts of
modern life. These things don't exist in Japan or anywhere else because
Europeans weren't there to create them and share them with the rest of the
world. Would you care for a bowl of rice George?"

George began to feel sick in both his body and his mind. Not only was he
depressed, but exposure to the harsh elements of nature had left him
physically ill. "Clarence, I seem to have contracted some type of sickness.
I must have some anti-biotics."

"Anti-biotics? There's no...

"Oh Shut up already! Then just take me back to the world as it was!"

"Sorry George. I'm not authorized to do that. Only my boss can make that
call." Clarence said to him: "You see George. Your father was right. You
really had a wonderful race. Don't you see what a foolish mistake it is to
be ashamed and guilty about your own people, and to let them die out? This
is what the world would be like without the creative spark of Edison and
Ford and Pasteur and Marconi. No great scientists, or mathematicians, or
inventors or fine artists. No Archimedes, no Aristotle, no Socrates, no
Alexander, no Renaissance, no Newton, no Kepler, no Goddard, no Mendel, no
Tesla, no Faraday, no Guttenberg, no Shakespeare, no Dickens, no Twain, no
Mozart, no Beethoven, no Da Vinci, no Michelangelo, no Galileo, no
Copernicus. No Venice, no Paris, no Lisbon, no Madrid, no Zurich, no Berlin,
no St. Petersburg, no Budapest, no Rome, no Milan, no Vienna, no London, no
New York, no Rio, no Sydney. No orchestras, no museums, no universities, no
hospitals, no libraries, no theaters, no radio, no books, no television, no
electricity, no refrigeration, no heating, no plumbing, no houses, no steel,
no stadiums, no vaccines, no cars, no planes, no trains, no ships, no
dentists, no surgeons, no computers, no telephones, and most important -
there's no creative genius to be found that could create and sustain such a
high level of civilization. There's nothing for the people of this world to
build upon. It's just a daily struggle for subsistence. A brutal planet
where the few people who aren't mired in eternal ignorance and darkness have
reached their peak of civilization and are advancing no further."

Clarence went on to lecture the broken and depressed young man for seven
days straight. He covered everything. History, science, economics,
philosophy, art, literature, fine music, architecture, medicine, politics,
agriculture, religion, and all the creations and contributions that the
European peoples had made in every conceivable field of human endeavor.
George listened closely to every word. He felt like a man who had been
reborn.

After his lecture, Clarence the Angel floated away towards heaven. "I hope
you have found all this to be educational, and I hope you have learned an
important lesson. Enjoy your world George!" mocked the departing angel.

George began to sob like a baby. It was the year 2002 and he was alone and
hungry in a backwards world where Europeans had never existed. He cried out
to the stars: "Please God. I see what a fool I've been. I understand now
what my father was trying to tell me. I want to go back to the world that I
came from. A world where Europeans not only existed, but blessed the rest of
humanity world with their unique creative ability. I want to live in a
civilized world. Please God!...take me back!...take me back!...Oh
God....please."

Suddenly George was transported back to his college dormitory. Drunk with
joy, George jumped into the showers before he could even take his clothes
off!.

"Warm water! and soap! Life is beautiful!" he screamed.

George's floormates looked at him as if he was crazy. "George! Have you gone
crazy?" asked a bewildered schoolmate.

"No my friend. I haven't taken leave of my senses. I've come to them!"
George replied. George then began to sing classic European folk songs in the
shower. Miraculously, he was able to sing in many different languages. He
sang O Sole Mio in Italian, Amazing Grace in English, Gloire Immortelle in
French, Das Ist Der Tag in German, and also Belgian, Spanish and French
ballads and waltzes. Tears of sheer joy began to stream down his cheeks. The
degenerate music of Hip-Hop and Rap lost all of its appeal to young George.

After his shower, George drove to a nearby restaurant and ordered two whole
entrees. One was Lasagna and the other was a delicious Veal Marsala. With
his Italian food he had a Greek salad with Spanish olives and Russian
dressing, drank a whole bottle of French wine, followed by a German pastry
for dessert. He finished his meal off with a hot cup of English tea and a
Cuban cigar.

George said out loud: "Oh those European peoples and their delicious
cuisine. Clarence was right after all. What a wonderful race!"

George was happy, but at the same time he realized there was much work to be
done. He thought of all those poor whites in Rhodesia and South Africa who
were being murdered and raped ever since they gave up control of those
once-European nations. He thought of the many thousands of qualified Whites
who were passed up for good jobs and college entrance because of racial
quotas that discriminate against Europeans. He thought about the decling
birthrates among all the European nations of the world. He remembered that
Europeans everywhere were dwindling in numbers every year even as their own
nations were being flooded with third world immigration. He recalled the
O.J. Simpson verdict and how millions of blacks in America cheered when that
brutal double murderer was set free by a black jury after he stabbed two
Whites to death. He remembered the Los Angeles riots of 1992, where dozens
of Whites were dragged out of their vehicles and killed like dogs in the
streets by packs of White-hating monsters who were never even punished! He
remembered the time when Jesse Jackson led a cheer at Stanford University:
"Hey Hey Ho Ho, Western Civ. has got to go!" His European blood began to
boil in righteous indignation when he recalled how Jesse Jackson once said
he had spit in White people's food when he was a young restaurant worker.
George now understood that that his people were on a collision course with
worldwide disaster and genocide. George realized that this great people must
not perish from the face of the earth.

George could not wait to see his father. He longed to embrace him and
apologize for all of the foolish and disrespectful things he had said to
him. But first, George had a score to settle with a certain college
professor. He walked into Dr. Silverstein's auditorium and quietly took a
seat in the back row. The nasal voiced Silverstein was lecturing on and on
about racial and gender inequalities in European-centered civilizations. It
was vintage Silverstein. George's impressionable White schoolmates, with
their baggy pants, hip-hop clothes and backwards baseball caps, were
swallowing Silverstein's poison pills hook, line and sinker. After letting
Silverstein spew his cultural poison for about 15 minutes or so, George
raised his hand so that he could give the profesor a piece of his newly
educated mind.

"George? Is that you? I remember you from last semester. I wasn't aware that
you were here today. I failed to recognize you in that shirt and tie, and
without your earrings. You must have enjoyed my course so much that you
signed up again eh? Class, I'd like for you to meet George. He was one of my
brightest students last semester. He truly has a thorough grasp of the ideas
presented in this course. George, would you be so kind as to tell my class
about that brilliant term paper you wrote about European racism,
imperialism, and the need for monetary reparations?"

That's when young George let loose on the unsuspecting Professor.

"ENOUGH! You scheming devil! You mendacious fabricator of falsehoods! You
pusillanimous purveyor of pinko propaganda! How dare you try to corrupt and
manipulate our young minds when your filthy lies. We Europeans have nothing
to be ashamed of, nothing to apologize for, and everything to be proud of.
And most of all, we don't owe anybody jack-shit - not one thin dime! To the
contrary, it is the rest of humanity that owes us a debt which can never be
repaid! We are the rightful heirs and protectors of a rich cultural
heritage. You vile manipulator! We are the sons of the Romans, the sons of
the Greeks, the Celtics, the Vikings, the Normans, the Saxons. Why do you
inflict shame and guilt upon us? We Europeans didn't just contribute to
civilization...WE ARE CIVILIZATION! And I decare that I will no longer
tolerate you shithead "intellectuals" trying to tear our people down. Never
again will we walk on eggshells when we speak, always fearing that we might
be called "racist." I no longer care what people think. All that matters is
the truth which you have sought to pervert!"

"What are you up to anyway? Why do you to corrupt my young peers by shoving
false heroes down their throats. Enough of your Marxist games of divide and
conquer, you commie pinko subversive! I don't want to learn anymore about
Martin Luther King, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton or Black History Month. They
would not have amounted to anything without the institutions of high
civilization created by the European peoples. I'm going to set this class
straight about who the truly great men of history are - the European
statesmen, scientists, explorers, monarchs, navigators, conquerors,
inventors, artists, writers, philosophers - the innovative giants of history
that you and your ilk have erased from our collective memories. You speak of
a world liberated from European influence? Permit me tell your students
about such a world, Silverstein, because I can speak from personal
experience, you wretched little conspiring monster!"

Silverstein turned white as a ghost. He was shellshocked and rendered
speechless for the first time in his career! Never in all of his years at
the University had a student dared to so boldly challenge his falsehoods.
Speaking from the heart as well as the mind, and with an eloquence he never
thought he could muster, George broke out into a 60-minute monologue on
history, science, philosophy, culture, and all the other attributes that
constitute high civilization. The young students were captivated by George's
brilliant oratory. Many were moved to tears. By the end of his tirade,
George's reawakened classmates were thundering their approval of his speech.
The class gave George a standing ovation and they thanked him for helping
them rediscover and reclaim their own sense of pride and lost identity. The
unstoppable power of truth had melted away years of Marxist guilt tripping,
self hate, wimpishness and cultural brainwashing in just one unforgettable
hour. The inspired students proceeded to storm out of Silverstein's class,
throwing their hip-hop baseball caps and nose earings at him as they
stampeded out and vowed never to return. They lifted George up upon their
shoulders and carried him out of the auditorium like a conquering hero. With
a glint in his eye, George glanced up towards the sky, winked and said
"Thank you, Clarence."

Dr. Silverstein was left humiliated and visibly shaken. He knew that these
reawakened European kids could never again be brainwashed with "political
correctness" and White guilt. Silverstein's greatest fear was that more of
these proud European youths would one day reawaken and take their country
and civilization back from the Silversteins of the world.

Silverstein was worried, but he remained confident that most young men and
women would never learn the truth about their glorious past and unique
creative abilties. After all, the mass media, Hollywood, the music industry,
the colleges, and the public schools are all controlled by "liberals" like
Dr. Silverstein. With the power of political correctness in their hands,
they can continue to tear down our European ancesters, destroy our
institutions and traditions, instigate blacks and other races against the
whites, flood America with third-world immigration, and push "hip-hop"
music, homosexuality, and other garbage onto a weak, confused and morally
degenerate youth. After reflecting upon these facts, Silverstein smiled a
devilish grin and muttered to himself: "A few of these European sheep may
wake up to what's being done to them, but the majority of these idiots never
will." And he smiled again....and laughed with diabolical Marxist glee. Then
he repeated to himself "No...they will never figure it all out until it's
too late."

Or will they?

Wow, a several thousand word white-supremist story. I'm SURE that's gonna convince several hundred people to your racist ways.

Your stories are as pathetic as your racist views.

I just read that story posted by "1st ammendment" and I think it's actually quite fair. Did you read it? I wouldn't mind betting you didn't - perhaps you were too busy putting up those ANaL posters that seem to have sprung up everywhere at uni which are full of distortions and lies (as ever).

Thankfully, the ANaL and its fellow communist bum-chums are about as "out" as Ford Cortinas, Socialism and the 3 day week. The ANaL belong in the 70s where their mindset seems to be stuck. The ANaL, CND, etc.. All lunatic left fringe groups that haven't quite lost their ranting hippie and militant feminist/homosexual image, perhaps because no real men or women would ever knowlingly associate with Communists.

Sorry "guys", but this century is ours, and you'd better step out of the way because we're coming through, you've had your chances to prevent white people standing up for themselves and we defeated you.

If you come to Britain and carry on as if you were in your old nation then you are not Welcome. To be British is to adopt some of the cultures that exist in this land and not simply set up enclaves. At the very least there must be a respect for British laws and customs and I am afraid that certain religions are not very compatible with the western lifestyle. What most people, including me, object to are immigrants who come here for the soft touch we have concerning medical treatment, handouts, opportunities to prey on the native brits by robbing them blind etc or those that come here and then complain that our culture and lifestyle doesn’t suit their religious beliefs! If they don’t like our culture then they shouldn’t really have bothered to come here.

However, some people who come to this country are genuinely interested in working here and becoming British - most people do not have objections to these type of people, and they are the people who helped make this country the great one it once was.

If people from foreign lands have recognisable skills or wish to set up businesses here then we should readily intergrate them into society but if they are clearly not bringing skills, or wanting to be integrated into our society, they should be shown the door sharpish, with a british boot up the a$$ on the way out.

me no read big long post.

actually, i've haven't had enough time in front of a computer recently to have a big rant on this subject yet, so here goes.

ok, why the BNP need to be opposed:

as jack has mentioned, whenever far right candidates have had electoral success, racist attacks increase. basically, when racists in suits start to appear more respectable racists with nuckledusters and steel toecaps come out of the woodwork. this is reason enough to oppose the BNP.

furthermore, the BNP/NF ARE nazis. When Hitlers nazi party first began it was a relatively small group of politicians whose main policy was opposing immigration and ethnic integration. they were backed up by gangs of racist thugs (the SS). there are parrallels today with the far right in britain- the BNP tries to put out a respectable image, while more openly nazi gits such as NF and Combat 18 do the dirty work, attacking ethnic minority communities and gay bars. this dirty work is more serious than simple racial scuffles- for example the nail bomb attack on a gay pub in soho a few years ago which killed 3 people. the bomber, david copeland had links with the BNP and said he wanted to start a race war.

true, britain is a long way from hitler's germany or mussolini's italy, there were certain conditions in those countries such as a weak government, economic crisis and a failure by the left to provide a united opposition to the menace. despite this nazism is a genuine threat in the 21st century. the far right victories in Austria with haider and now le pen in france prove that the menace is still alive. however the demonstrations against haider and le pen were some of the largest europe has ever seen, so opposition is not dead either.

first ammendment- your story is bollocks.

first of all, just because someone is anti racist it doesn't mean they oppose any thing done by white people. in a way your story proved thay anti-white racism is just as stupid as anti-black racism.

also, the facts are wrong. while most people in europe were living in caves and hunting with spears, the greatest civilisations were in the middle east and north africa. the pyramids, for example, still baffle western scientists today. yet this was a black civilisation, the sort of civilisation you think couldn't exist.

also intelligence has nothing to do with civilisation or technology. in fact if you look at history most technological advances were actually driven by war- gunpowder, powered flight, nuclear technology. even the wheel was probably pioneered by people who threw spears from chariots.

on the other hand, people you would call uncivilised, living for generations in the deserts and plains of africa, north america and australia have cultural knowledge which, for its own purposes, is superior to western technology. peoples who live in these conditions know how to get water from the desert, how to make shelters, how to kill and cook animals. true, they don't have cars or houses but they don't need them.

read some history and use your brain before you go inventing cautionary tales to spread your racist shit.

(oops, did i swear just then? oh ok, you can disregard my entire argument- i obviously resorted to profanity when i had come up against a better point of view)

Combat 18 are nothing to do with the BNP, they split off years ago and have attacked BNP members before because of a feud. The NF and C18 DAMAGE nationalism with their street confrontations, why the hell do you think the BNP gave-up street confrontation? Because it's damaging, achieves nothing, and gives people the impression that the party are Nazis when they clearly are not. The nailbombing wasn't a victory for anyone, it sure as hell didn't benefit nationalism it just gave the ANaL more ammo to smear the BNP with (even though Copeland wasn't a BNP member at the time, he left as they were democratic and he wasn't).

As for the Egyptians and others, yes, they did have some advanced periods, but this all came to end and we were the ones who became the colonial superpower in the end.

but they are both racist, so combat 18 get more confident when they think there is more support for racist policies. also many leading members of the BNP have been convicted for violent race hatred crimes.

but they are both racist, so combat 18 get more confident when they think there is more support for racist policies. also many leading members of the BNP have been convicted for violent race hatred crimes.

I have to say that I am highly amused by the fuss on this page since I last posted, and its all meant to be about me!!! It has to be said that the far left is hardly covering itself in glory.

Surely someone else has an opinion on this?