The worship of commodity.

Hi
I want to question your motivations in asking that question? Is this one of those pro- or anti- SWP trick questions like I found in my xmas cracker last year?

Thanks Mike for your short answer however could you please elabotate on your answer as i do not fully understand its meaning.Please put your answer into context on how this affects people as everyone appears different than usual.

Please do not think this is a trick question.I only seek a direct and logical answer to the question.My questions are sincere but i appear to be getting no sincere answers only statements to why they are asked.What is christmas for and why does everyone appear different in mood at this particular time.Ifail to see the reason for this especialy after reading articles on the IMC site.World war 111 becons and everyone appears euphoric.How does this square with the message i read in the shop window peace on earth and goodwill to all.Please , please take my questions seriously someone.

Please just try & enjoy Christmas which ever way you want to do that. Try & understand that some people can be concerned about world events AND enjoy Christmas - I certainly will be!

hi
im confused as in the original posting red/bluekop said it was a joke..so was it the replys that aRe funni or the statements?
?????

Please try and enjoy Christmas! Some people who are aware of, and concerned about world events also enjoy Christmas. Whats wrong with this? Seasons Greetings!!!

In answering this question, I would endeavour to answer it in two ways:-

1. What Christmas is supposed to be about.
2. What Christmas has come to be about in reality.

1. Christmas, as the name suggests, is supposed to be about Christ. It is supposed to be about the celebration of his birth, like one big birthday party I suppose. Like a birthday we give gifts to people to show our love and affection for them. Chirst and Christianity is all about love so I guess giving presents is our symbolic way of showing this to one another. Christmas should revolve around Christ and God and our celebration and worship of him, and rejoycing in the good news (in this fucked up world), and our thanking of he for sacrifycing his life in such a horredrous way for us mostly scumy people and for thanking him for offering a future of happiness after we climb out of this shit hole that we have created.

2. But in reality Christmas has little to do with Christ anymore. Most people forget that the first 6 letters of the words Christmas are "Christ". Most people have forgotten or don't believe that this is supposed to be a celebration of him. Instead, true to our selfish nature, true to our animal instincts and ture to the nature of capitalism, we have turned Christmas into a time of the celebration of "Self". Christmas for most people is time off from work, office parties, going on the piss as many times as possible with friends, drinking, eating, buying clothes for oneself, one big hedonist party, etc. etc. We also buy presents for our friends and loved ones and this is essentially good (refer to my first answer), but again this has lost much of its meaning in that, urged on by Capitalism, the presents we purchase have gone overboard and we now spend ridiculous amount of money on people. Where as we should be just buying symbolic "tokens" for people to express our love for them, and we should try and devote much of our spending power to give to those who are really in need, and to those who can't give back to us, as essentially buying presents is like buying presnents for "yourself" (again) as every presnet we give out we get back.

But I do think giving tokens is true to the Christmas meaning as it does promote a goodwill feeling in us and a feeling of love towards others.

So I think Christmas has not come to be a "total" disaster in that feelings of goodwill towards our fellow man and neighbour are promoted. But the true meaning of it (i.e. Christ) has been lost and the true meaning of our neighbour has been lost and to those who we really should be giving so much more to.

Probably not the answer you wanted to hear or believe in, but I believe it is somewhere in and around the "truth".

Best regards,

FROM WHAT YOU SAY, WHY DOES THE SWP HAVE CHRISTMAS DECORATIONS IN ITS HOLBORN BOOKSHOP WINDOW ? ( I SAW FAIRY-LIGHTS, LITTLE FAKE GIFTWRAPPED PRESENTS, BAUBLES ETC ). why not go the whole way next year, with a clockwork santa claus and a baby-jesus manger scene ? after all, jesus was a sort of socialist wasnt he ? anyway, you dont get many workers round holborn, so who cares, right ?

Thank you for your reply to my questions although i do not agree with everything you have to say i can see you are sincere in what you believe.However i still fail to understand how peace and goodwill square with the fast approaching slaughter of the poor people of Iraq.Surely the message you give is the complete opposite of death and destruction.So why all the euphoria and joy at the present time.I still do not understand the logic of this thing called Christmas.Further answers are required on this topical subject.

You are correct, the feelings of peace and goodwill that come out at Christmas time do not square with "the fast approaching slauguher of the poor people of Iraq". The reasons they do not square up are twofold:-

1. Many people, I do not know the exact stats, but I would say over 50%, do not believe that invading Iraq is the wrong thing to do, but rather the correct thing to do. There is also another fairly large percentage that think the invasion maybe wrong, but at the same time they can see some justification of it. We/the world is controlled by the right wing media. The messages that we are fed help to create and substain these beliefs.

The message that we are fed is - "that Saddam is evil and brutal and must be removed from power. He is a threat to all of us and our children. He is also a threat to his own people and they suffer greatly under his rule. And that America is the (real) saviour of the world, the respected rulers of the "free world", a sophisticated and civilesed race etc. etc."

Through the very medium of tv, the fact that it is predominantly Americans programes and films that we watch, through the medium of poplular music and through the medium of commodities such as American clothing, McDonalds etc. etc., these all serves to give a subliminal respect to America.

2. Secondly, even if people did think it was wrong, people would have the attitude of either what can I or we do about it or else would not care that much. It dosen't affect their lives direclty, it is miles away in some foregin land so what do I care. As I said in my original answer the true meaning of Christmas is long gone and it has largely become a celebration of "self". i.e. people essentially only care about themselves, even if they thought the war was wrong they dont care - this is what Capitalism is about and what it thrives on and how it is so how hard to bring down - i.e. selfishness. Also so many peoples own lives are so fucked up or perplexed with worries, anxities, diseases, berevements, death etc. etc. (which in all fairness is a much more credible excuse) they do not have room in their hearts or minds to care about a foregin people whom they know little or nothing about.

So these are the reasons that I would give why the euphoric feeling at Christas time vs. the disaster of the upcoming slaughter/the devestated state the world is in, do not square up.

Hopefully some day the world won't be so devestated....

Best regards,

Now that's real obsession.. Even a thread about Christmas manages to include a pop at the Party of Evil!

I mean, putting up Christmas decorations, how fascist can you get? Maybe someone should picket Bookmarks with 'Santa is a Nazi' placards?

Merry Christmas everyone.

...a co-option by the early corporate "Christian" church of winter solstice celebrations in so-called pagan lands newly conquered. Christ was not born in December. The Roman/Jewish census in the Middle East took place in the spring of the year. The census was the reason for Joseph and Mary to travel to Bethlehem.

As Europe was subdued by Rome, other pagan holidays were incorporated by the Catholic Church to appease the natives. Easter was a Germanic fertility goddess, whose symbols were a hare and an egg. Her holiday was associated with the shift from winter to spring, when crops were planted, etc.

As far as I can tell, there is no reason for a buying spree at the solstice. That concept is a commercial brainwash, and has nothing to do with Jesus. Remember that Jesus pulled a "Food Not Bombs" at the Sermon on the Mount, with the loaves and fishes, and that he was killed for messing with the money lenders (bankers) in the temple. He was a very spiritual, radical activist -- therefore a threat to the crass.