The gay community aids organizations are basically mouthpieces for the big multinational drug companies then you get so-called "AIDS actvist" just repeating what they have been told something like the stooges that report the "news" on the TV. So now we have gay men on these deadly drugs that are suppose to be saving their lives when in fact they are being killed. Its not a grand conspiracy just the take-over of corporations and media mis-information and AIDS careerist who could not care less as long as they get their fact paychecks.

but thousands of other experts disagree.

Thousands of "experts" say nothing about the possible war or back Bush/Blair. I have been into this AIDS dissident movement for about 8 years and when 911 happened I though Ok now many others will know what it is like to be an AIDS dissident. The idea that HIV causes AIDS has been drimmed into us for many years just like the whole war propaganda is being done now although many people now see through this. The whole system is very corrupt esecially the media and science who have not been telling the years and silencing dissent. I have seen them do this with AIDS especially the AIDS is a viral epidemic in Africa myth.

"Thousands of experts" does not constitute proof of causation. Until it is proven that HIV causes AIDS, all the experts in the world claiming that it does are giving out false information.

It is fake skepticism to dismiss something solely on the basis of what most experts agree or disagree with. There was also a time when most "experts" believed that the earth was flat and that only a heretic would say otherwise.

Does HIV cause AIDS? Me and millions of others beleive HIV and AIDS to be inseperable, and i'm always ready to beleive i've been misled by people who have something to gain. but, has anybody got AIDS without having HIV first and has anybody who has had untreated HIV not developed AIDS ? There must some kind of link between these 2 things but is it the simple causation we are lead to beleive? I actually feel incredibly ignorant about this

"Has anybody got AIDS without having HIV first and has anybody who has had untreated HIV not developed AIDS?"
The answer to both these questions is yes.
There have been plenty of cases of AIDS [ a syndrome - hence the 's' in aids ] without the so called causative agent of HIV, and plenty of cases of those 'infected' with HIV not developing the 'syndrome' [especially those that do not take the cellular poisons of azt like drugs].
Also the test for HIV is seriously flawed, allowing for the presence of up to nine protein strands 'indicative' of HIV 'infection'. The methods of Jenner in regards to causive agents, postulates that the agent must first be separated from tissue samples in order for an infectious route to be identified as the active causation. This has simply never been done with HIV.
Whereas in the west, the test requires the presence of 5 out of the 9 protein strands before the patient is regarded as HIV positive, in, say, sub saharan africa, the presence of only 1 strain is required, thus clearing the way for the patient to be regarded as HIV positive. The subsequent early death due to AIDS neatly side steps the issues of poverty, malnutition and exposure to dangerous working practices [if not exposure to the results of irrisponsible dumping of industrial waste products].
A sinister edge can be added with regard to the 'experiments' conducted by various military and governmental agencies in the 70's and 80's, where certain groups were exposed to untested and largely untracable vaccines [funnily enough the 'volenteers' were gay men and africans!].
Dr Hilda Clark, however, postulates that the cause of death and wastage in AIDS patients is caused always by secondary infections and the migration of paracites from either hosts or, in the case of the human liver fluke, within hosts. It is interesting to note that in the case of liver flukes almost every AIDS fatality is found to have the LIVER fluke present in the THYROID. Do a search on Dr Clark for more info.

Not only is a standard piece of tripe that is becoming all too common on this NEWSwire, but this is extremely offensive to anyone who has HIV/AIDS. Go do some proper research on AIDS, and THEN TELL ME THAT AIDS DOESN'T EXIST! People are dying of this disease, and the last thing they want to see is somebody belittling them like the person who wrote this so-called 'article' has.

FOR THE ONE THOUSANDTH TIME, INDYMEDIA IS A NEWS SITE NOT A CONSPIRACY SITE, CONSPIRACY THEORISTS AND THEIR LIZARD CRAP ARE NOT WELCOME HERE! FOR GODS SAKE EDITORS GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND DELETE SOME OF THIS USELESS NOISE!!!

Whats really offensive is your anti-intellectual arrogance.
For a start I bet you haven't even taken the time to look at the issues or chase up any of the info. You probabley aren't even aware of the many HIV positive people and the groups they belong to and have formed, that are saying the same thing - namely that there is something fundamentally wrong with the HIV/AIDS picture.
You step in here with the same authoritarian attitude, claiming that you are the sole arbiter of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable infomation. You would have been better off in the thirteenth century, you could have joined the inquisition and murdered all those you do not agree with, rather than posting your all to familiar upper case insults.
I am beginning to suspect that you are either a plant [agent of the state/multinational military industrial complex] or seriously challenged in the mental health department [delusions of grandeur .. pathalogical messianic complex] or both.
Having done a search for all your postings, I find that you have spent a lot of time replying ONLY to those postings you seem to find fault with and then only to bring the level of discussion down to a purile and infantile level. Not once have you ever reported on any 'news', posted a positive comment or offered up any solid evidence for that which you consider to be non conspiritorial.
It would seem that in your role as 'bullshit buster' you have busted nothing [except my patience] but spread copious amonts of bull.
Please carry on. Not only do you give amusement but you also serve a most useful role in clarifing the real issues surrounding the facts you oppose, namely the resistance of the 'popular' imagination in rejecting that which they have been programmed to ridicule and ignore.

Oh goody... could it just be that jacklucid is starting to realise what a pathetic person he is? I would say more, but I have to go back to reality, lol...

The AIDS epidemic in Africa and eg. in Roumania amongst orphans has never been satisfactorily explained to me.

Are you a microbiologist/virologist?

"Not only is a standard piece of tripe that is becoming all too common on this NEWSwire, but this is extremely offensive to anyone who has HIV/AIDS.

Truth hurts initially (emotionally) but it must be told. What's more harmful, telling people lies that AIDS is an incurable sexually transmitted disease and giving them toxic corporate drugs which kill, maim and really do not prolong lives as claimed or informing people about the real causes of AIDS so they can get the appropriate therapies and make the changes in their lifestyle which will bring them back to health or so that governments can formulate policies based on facts and tackle the root causes?

"Go do some proper research on AIDS, and THEN TELL ME THAT AIDS DOESN'T EXIST! "

Proper research has been conducted showing the many factors that cause AIDS. The claim was not that AIDS doesn't exist but rather that HIV is not the cause of AIDS and that prolong exposure to various stressors destroys the immune system..

Indeed, millions of people are dying but it has nothing to do with an HIV virus.

"FOR THE ONE THOUSANDTH TIME, INDYMEDIA IS A NEWS SITE NOT A CONSPIRACY SITE, CONSPIRACY THEORISTS AND THEIR LIZARD CRAP ARE NOT WELCOME HERE! FOR GODS SAKE EDITORS GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND DELETE SOME OF THIS USELESS NOISE!!! "

Would you mind posting links to studies you have read proving that HIV causes AIDS or do you make a habit of subjecting people with whom you disagree to ad hominem attacks? "Conspiracy theorist" is the battle cry of the various activist organizations and others tied up in the AIDS drug industry who try to censor away legitimate scientific research. Notice how they never have any studies cites, only attacks. Or, when studies debunking their views are posted, they always complain that the information is 'too technical'.

You asked for proper research? Here you go. Plenty of legitimate scientific journal references which you can take to the library and look up yourself. I would like to see research supporting your views posted here sometime but I won't hold my breath!

AIDS Myth Busters
 http://www.aliveandwell.org/index.php?page=myth

DO HIV ANTIBODY TESTS PROVE HIV INFECTION?
 http://www.aliveandwell.org/index.php?page=Testing_testing

IS HIV THE CAUSE OF AIDS?
 http://www.rethinkingaids.com/Archive/2001/index.htm
 http://www.rethinkingaids.com/Archive/2001/RA2001-07.pdf

IS HIV HARMFUL?
 http://www.whatisaids.com/roederer.htm

THE CAUSES OF AIDS
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 http://www.robertogiraldo.com/eng/papers/TheCausesOfAids.html

UNRELIABILITY OF HIV Tests

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6.Biggar R, Melbye M, Sarin P, et al. 1985. ELISA HTLV retrovirus antibody reactivity associated with malaria and
immune complexes in healthy Africans. Lancet. ii:520-543.

7.Blanton M, Balakrishnan K, Dumaswala U, et al. 1987. HLA antibodies in blood donors with reactive screening tests for antibody to the immunodeficiency virus. Transfusion. 27(1):118.

8.Blomberg J, Vincic E, Jonsson C, et al. 1990. Identification of regions of HIV-1 p24 reactive with sera which give
"indeterminate" results in electrophoretic immunoblots with the help of long synthetic peptides. AIDS Res. Hum. Retro. 6:1363.

9.Burkhardt U, Mertens T, Eggers H. 1987. Comparison of two commercially available anti-HIV ELISA's: Abbott HTLV-III ELA and DuPont HTLV-III ELISA. J. Med. Vir. 23:217.

10.Bylund D, Ziegner U, Hooper D. 1992 Review of testing for human immunodeficiency virus. Clin. Lab. Med. 12:305-333.

11.Challakere K, Rapaport M. 1993. False-positive human immunodeficiency virus type 1 ELISA results in low-risk
subjects. West. J. Med. 159(2):214-215.

12.Charmot G, Simon F. 1990. HIV infection and malaria. Revue du practicien. 40:2141.

13.Cordes R, Ryan M. 1995. Pitfalls in HIV testing. Postgraduate Medicine. 98:177.

 http://www.aliveandwell.org/index.php?page=reasons
 http://www.robertogiraldo.com/eng/papers/TestsForHIVAreHighlyInaccurate.html

AIDS DRUGS AND TOXICITY

 http://www.whatisaids.com/nemj0402.htm
 http://www.rethinkingaids.de/afrika/brink.htm

DOCUMENTARY

South Africa

 http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/video/vvazt-20kbps.ram
 http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/video/vvazt-34kbps.ram
 http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/video/vvazt-80kbps.ram
 http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/vvazt.htm - transcript
__________________________________________________

UK

 http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/video/jsazt-20kbps.ram
 http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/video/jsazt-34kbps.ram
 http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/video/jsazt-80kbps.ram
 http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/jsazt.htm - transcript

 http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/cgafrica.htm

Happy searching!

I salute you.
And what a valuable resource. Thank you [for consigning me to many hours reading!].
cue ...

So let's assume that it's the 'corporate drugs' that cause AIDS, rather than HIV. If this is the case, why did AIDS kill people in their thousands in the early 80s when it was first became public knowlege, and more importantly, before the 'anti-HIV' drugs became available? Yes, these treatments are controversial, yes, they blight the health of the patients in themselves, but to say that they are the cause of AIDS does not make sense. So, we can rule out the 'corporate durgs', you have ruled out HIV already, so if it ain't those two, logic dictates it must be something else yet...

"So let's assume that it's the 'corporate drugs' that cause AIDS, rather than HIV. If this is the case, why did AIDS kill people in their thousands in the early 80s when it was first became public knowlege, and more importantly, before the 'anti-HIV' drugs became available? "

Unverified data from Africa reported by the World Health Organization
 http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/cjombeki.htm

Drugs - the common denominator of AIDS in America and Europe: (a) Recreational drugs
 http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/pddrdilemma.htm
"In an editorial of the New England Journal of Medicine in 1981, long before AIDS was claimed to be infectious, David Durack proposed: 'Perhaps one or more of these recreational drugs is an immunosuppressive agent. The leading candidates are the nitrites, which are now commonly inhaled to intensify orgasm' (Durack, 1981). The reason for the early suspicion of drugs was simple. Based on data from the CDC and from independent investigators, nearly all AIDS patients were either male homosexuals who had used recreational drugs as aphrodisiacs and psychoactive stimulants, or were heterosexual intravenous drug users (Durack, 1981; Goedert et al., 1982; Marmor et al., 1982; McManus et al., 1982; Jaffe et al., 1983; Mathur-Wagh et al., 1984; Newell et al., 1984; Haverkos et al., 1985; Krieger & Caceres, 1985; Newell et al., 1985a; Newell et al., 1985b;
Lauritsen & Wilson, 1986; Haverkos & Dougherty, 1988b; Rappoport, 1988). "

Now would you mind doing us a favor and do your own searching from now on? Everything posted here covers all the questions thrown at people with unorthodox views as well as plenty of links and references, and I'm sure you have access to Google and fingers that can type.

No comment

STRAIGHT AIDS MYTH SHATTERED

New York Post
March 19, 2004 --

THE public health experts - and their amen corner in the media - owe Helen Gurley Brown an apology.

The legendary Cosmopolitan editor was vilified in 1993 when she published a piece called "The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS." But she was right.

Eleven years later, Details is asking: "Whatever Happened to AIDS and Straight Men?" The article states, "A disease-free man who has unprotected sex with a drug-free woman stands a one in 5 million chance of contracting HIV."
The story by Kevin Gray also cites a joke that made the rounds of the New York City Department of Health as statistics came in showing that the predicted spread of AIDS to heterosexuals wasn't happening:
"What do you call a man who got HIV from his girlfriend? . . . A liar."
"I feel somewhat vindicated," Brown told PAGE SIX.

Michael Fumento, who wrote the original 1990 book titled "The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS," said, "I'm not waiting for an apology. It's not going to happen."
When Basic Books published Fumento's tome, "Distributors refused to handle it," he says. "Stores refused to carry it. And at many stores that did have it, clerks left it in the basement."
Celia Farber, who wrote an AIDS column in Spin magazine, was routinely attacked because she refused to rehash the propaganda put out by AmFAR and other groups.
"Everybody who was wrong got journalism awards. Everybody who was right got all but driven from the profession," Farber said.

Farber exposed the conspiracy between profit-hungry drug companies, researchers who wanted more funding, homosexuals who didn't want the disease to be known as "the gay plague," and conservatives who wanted to turn back the sexual revolution.
"They believed in what they were doing, not what they were saying," Fumento said. "They knew it was lies. They felt the end justified the means."
At a recent editorial meeting at Seed, the new science magazine, Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter Laurie Garrett supposedly threatened to quit when a colleague suggested a story about Peter Duesberg, a leading retrovirologist.

Duesberg lost his funding, his laboratory, and his students when he announced in 1987 that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. "He lost everything," said one insider. Duesberg switched to cancer research, and is now touted to win a Nobel Prize.



_____________


CAUCASIAN TEEN 'AIDS' CASES (entire USA) BETWEEN July 1983 and December 2001 = 1211 (male and female).
Source: - CDC

TWELVE HUNDRED AND ELEVEN in nearly 18 years or a mere 67 cases a year.

JUST OVER ONE CAUCASIAN TEEN 'AIDS' CASE PER U.S. STATE A YEAR.

HARDLY AN 'EPIDEMIC!
That figure of 1.28 cases per State is lower than gun shotdeaths in the Mac Arthur Park area of Los Angeles in a single month.

Check for yourself (don't take our word for it) at: -  http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats/hasr1302/table7.htm

IN CONTRAST

In the same period people over 60 (caucasian) had 9,338 cases.

Those old folks must be sex mad - Nine times MORE sex than teenagers.

....or could it just be that 'AIDS' is not an std? Surely not? God forbid! Perish the thought!

THE GREAT HIV / AIDS HOAX

The multi-billion dollar AIDS/HIV fraud is based on two fabrications: that AIDS is a single disease and that it is caused by the HI virus or the "HIV virus" as some medical/media masterminds call it - perhaps they think the V in HIV stands for volcano.

In Japan "AIDS" is virtually unknown : yet, in random tests, 25% of people were found to be "HIV-positive".
HIV-positive response means nothing of any relevance to health: it can be triggered by vaccination, malnutrition, M.S., measles, influenza,
papilloma virus wart, Epstein Barr virus, leprosy, glandular fever, hepatitis, syphillis ... : over sixty different conditions.

Dr Robert E. Willner, inoculated himself with the blood of Pedro Tocino, a HIV-positive haemophiliac, on live Spanish television: an event which was not picked up the pharma-beholden British or US media.

The great HIV/AIDS lie was created by Robert Gallo who was found guilty of "scientific misconduct". "...instead of trying to prove his insane theories about AIDS to his peers...he went public. Then, with the help of
Margaret Heckler, former head of Health and Human Services, who was under great political pressure to come up with an answer to AIDS, the infamous
world press announcement of the discovery of the so-called AIDS virus came about.

This great fraud is now responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands... It was no accident that Gallo just happened to patent the test for HIV the day after the announcement...Gallo is now a multi-millionaire because of AIDS and his fraudulent AIDS test." Dr.
Willner.

By grouping together 25-plus different diseases and other allied factors -
pneumonia, herpes, candidiasis, salmonella, various cancers, infections, vaccine and antibiotic damage, amyl nitrate damage, malnutrition etc.and,
particularly in Africa, TB, malaria, dysentery leprosy and "slim disease" - and calling the whole thing an "AIDS epidemic", a multi-billion dollar/pound "AIDS research and treatment" racket has been created.

The mythical "HIV-induced AIDS plague" in the Third World generates huge sums of cash from Western relief organisations whilst smokescreening the
vaccine/drug boys, responsible for the carnage.

Every death of someone "HIV-positive" is recorded as an "AIDS death".

Periodically, the BBC/ITV/Press visit
Africa/Yugoslavia/Russia etc to
report on the "HIV/AIDS victims" and how they cannot afford the "life-saving AZT." Glaxo Wellcome's lethal drug, AZT, in combination with the diagnosis of
HIV-positive and the prediction, stated or implied, that - "You will die of AIDS" is one of the great pieces of Medical Black Magic - Voodoo Medicine at its most impressive: people have committed suicide on the
basis of the ludicrous diagnosis.

Pregnant women who are HIV-positive have been told to stop breast-feeding, dosed with AZT, have had abortions or have been sterilised. HIV-positive
babies who become ill -from vaccination or whatever - are automatically diagnosed as "suffering from AIDS".
"Considering that there is little scientific proof of the exact linkage of HIV and AIDS, is it ethical to prescribe AZT, a toxic chain terminator of DNA...to 150,000 Americans - among them pregnant women and newborn babies..? Rep.G Gutknecht US House of Representatives.

New Labour "Health" have now announced that all pregnant women in the UK will be "offered" a HIV test. Those who fall for the scam and who are diagnosed as "HIV positive" will be given the chance to have themselves and their unborn child permanently damaged by AZT etc. Pregnancy, itself, can cause a positive diagnosis.

AZT began as a "cancer drug" but was withdrawn for being too toxic: like being thrown out of the Gestapo for cruelty. Its effects include - cancer, hepatitis, dementia, seizures, anxiety, impotence, leukopaenia, , severe
nausea, ataxia, etc. and the termination of DNA synthesis. i.e. AIDS/death by prescription. AZT eventually kills all those who continue to take it.

"WARNING : Retrovir (AZT)...has been associated with symptomatic myopathy, similar to that produced by Human Immunodeficiency Virus..." Glaxo
Wellcome literature!

None of which stops the medical trade from pushing it on every trusting sap who is not ill to start with but is labelled with the "HIV-positive" nonsense and then destroyed by AZT; with "AIDS" getting the blame - and
more billions pouring in for the drug boys, vivisectors, animal breeders and the rest. The latest stunt is to give a "cocktail" of drugs - including AZT, of course, and at £12,000 per head, per year - to all homosexual men who are "HIV-positive".

A particularly good scam is to haul into court someone "guilty of deliberately infecting the victim with the 'HIV-Virus which causes AIDS' " which then develops into "full-blown AIDS" - no mention of vaccine,
antibiotic damage etc or full-blown AZT. Over 2000 - and rising, of the world's scientists are now disputing the HIV hoax, their efforts being continually suppressed by the AIDS establishment, the pharmaceutical/vivisection syndicate and their political and media lackeys