poor misguided fool ... do you really believe groups such as Red Army Faction and Baader Meinhof - the historical pin-ups of the black block - weren't funded by the CIA? There is alot of evidence to suggest that the part of the "Black-Bloc" were working for the other side in Genoa in 1999 (reports of "Black Clad Anarchists" leading the crowd to storm a McDonalds in the city, and then leaving by the back-exit, before being allowed to pass through police lines and "out-of-the-way" in the back-streets behind).

As for Calinicos, aside from the anally retentive SWP and their combination of authoritarianism and 'jumping-on-the-bandwagon' politic posturing, the SWP-Leader does not talk from his rear all of the time - contrary to popular belief within the anti-capitalist movement. Anti-capitalists, like yourself I'm afraid, are equally guilty of the crime perpetrated by the SWP, that other groups and individuals are either absolutely with us or they aren't, except voices in our movement - if anything - can be even more intolerant sometimes.

Surely the "black bloc" working with the cops were just cops, in black?

As for the SWP, surely an organisation that desires to control the movement go directly against what the politics of this movement are all about? The SWP are marxist-lenninist, and Lenin was, make no mistake, a fascist. Read The Guillotine at Work by Grigori Maximoff (spelling?).

Just as rightwing organisations that wish to take state power have no place in a directly democratic movement, leftwing authoritaians have no place either. Rightwing or leftwing, it's important to be "absolutely against" any authoritarian group. Ultimately, they're all the same; I doubt anyone living under Mussolini's fascist rule would find much better under Lenin's state capitalist dictatorship. (Um, wait a minute, isn't FASCISM a form of state capitalism?)

Disclaimer it seems you are the poor misguided fool.

Firstly can you back up your assertion that the RAF and Baader Meinhoff are the pinups of those involved in black bloc activity? Both of these armed groups were marxist inspired not anarchist.

Secondly a black bloc is a tactic adopted at certain times and for a particular purpose. It is not a fixed organisation or group.

There is some evidence to suggest that the police tried to infiltrate those activists using black bloc tactics. By definition they were not part of the black bloc, they were police infiltrators. To try to suggest otherwise is misleading and disingenuous. If you have actual evidence to the contrary post it up, and I mean evidence not supposition and anti anarchist rumour-mongering.

Sowing seeds of doubt and disquiet by accusing others of intolerance, while exhibiting the same behaviour, smacks of hypocrisy, not to mention the smell of state psych ops.

Don't believe it? Have you ever READ Lenin first hand or do you rely on malicious, misinformed, gossip from muddleheaded right wing/anarchist windbags? Read the original before you presume to condemn, stupid.

 http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/sep/staterev/index.htm

I had the misfortune to read, and I mean really read, Marx, Lenin and a few of the other authoritarians. Thankfully I wasn't an anarchist who questioned them at the time of their writing. Marx would have probably tried to kill me or take *his* organisation elsewhere. Lenin would have tried to dazzle me with shite then ordered (sic) his *red army* to kill me.

"It is absolutely essential that all authority in the factories should be concentrated in the hands of management"
V.I.Lenin 1922.

The perfect rebuttal from Stinkbomb to my diatribe written in haste and borne out of slight impatience in response to the original article (an impatience with what I saw as unfettered support for the "Black Block" in the face my perception of "their" flawed legitimacy, based upon my assumption that they were indeed a "group" and not a tactic, a misunderstanding correctly pointed out by Stinkbomb). I agree with everything Stinkbomb says to counter my wide-of-the-mark unsubstantiated fervour, especially the remark that I am the poor misguided fool! I apologise to the writer of the original article, and wish I could withdraw my slightly offensive remarks (but they have been posted and cannot be undone now!)
In specific response to Stinkbomb, I cannot back up my assertion that the "Black Block" are inspired by RAF and Baader Meinhof. Also, he is also right to say that RAF and BM were Marxist and not Anarchist, though they were still Anti-Capitalist". However, there is still some crossover between the manipulation of these groups by the CIA whose subsequent activities was used to justify greater police powers and powers for the intellience agencies, and the manipulation of "Black Block" tactics by agent provocateurs in causing violent clashes between activists and police, which has been used to justify more police powers and greater surveillence monitoring. That latter obvious point is about as predictable as night turning into day, however.

blah blah blah SWP blah blah authoritarian scum blah red fascists blah blah Lenin shot my dog blah blah trust no-one, work with no-one, stay in bed

His pathetic comments just highlight what a state asset he is. At the moment in italy Berlusconi is trying to invent links between the RAF / Red Brigades and Ya Basta/ Genoa rioters/ black bloc. dispite the fact that their methods, ideology and structure are completly different. -Disclaimer you are spreading disinformation intended to get innocent people locked up on fucking serious charges.

As for the- Black bloc causes police clampdown- EFFECTIVE action causes police clampdown- All you State socialists/leftists who make a career out of maintaining and protecting your own posistions -you are as bad as the politicians we are saddled with at the moment.

and let's overlook the fact that the police infiltrated all sections of the genoa demonstrations, black bloc, pink bloc, the highly authoritarian and easily infiltrated civil disobediente, gsf and no doubt the hapless swp front gob on resistance. let's disavow the fact that thousands of people, not wanting to get totally twatted by a well equipped and highly trained thugs (i'm talking about the fascist carabinieri here), decided to abandon the civil disobedience 'guidelines' and decided for themselves to fight urban warfare on more even terms. and let's just gloss over the fact that padded up civil disobediente threatened anyone wearing a mask or balaclava and started attacking some with iron bars for er.. not following the non-violent (asking to get your head kicked in) guidelines laid down by their leadership. and since when did anyone really involved in the anti-capitalist movement request a leadership.

and one final one. the raid on the diaz school. how many people were aware that on the evening of that raid gsf bouncers were preventing people from entering the gsf building if they didn't have a gsf membership or press card, and instead were directing unregistered people to the diaz school if they wanted accomodation? or that prior to the raid that a senior policeman made enquiries about the diaz school and was told by someone from the gsf that they did not know anymore who 'was in control of the building'. and who can recall how much effort all these organisers put into marginalising anarchist groups in the run up to the demonstration. while i am not sure that all this amounts to a delibeater act of treachery i cannot dismiss the possibility altogether. the policeman may have been working covertly when making the enquiry, although i find them pretty easy to spot myself.. at best, the actions of people within the gsf made the action possible, and the stance they have taken, before and subsequently, offers legitimacy to police actions.

the people in gsf lament the death of carlo guliani, yet they are not condemning him for masking up and confronting the police. no, they much prefer to claim him as a martyr of their own and gloss over the fact that he was ignoring their commandments. so, there is something here to learn for any person aspiring to seriously involve themselves in direct action. remember that the worst kind of enemy is the one that claims to be on your side.

Blah blah your dog was an undercover cop blah blah black bloc are undercover SWP blah blah why didnt everyone destroy the US embassy with their teeth on Saturday blah blah blah quadruple agents under the bed

Is this the best argument that Callinicos can muster against the black bloc? A peace nazi playground insult? Look, we understand that the authoritarian left in Europe and elsewhere is extremely jealous of the anarchists and are inventing stuff about anarchist tactics like the black bloc. There's a lot of nonsense that has been written about the black bloc in Genoa, all of which is just untrue. Here in the states, some ignorant activists have claimed that the Seattle black bloc instigated the police violence during the WTO riots. Of course, the black bloc didn't march until several HOURS after the police started attacking people in the streets.

The fact that Callinicos has stooped to this level of insult shows how impoverished his words have become and how irrelvant and marginal the SWP is becoming.

Good riddance to authoritarian trash.

'how irrelvant and marginal the SWP is becoming'

Wow! After last Saturday you still think they're marginal and you're the real deal? Hey, whatever makes you happy!

;-)

"Don't believe it? Have you ever READ Lenin first hand or do you rely on malicious,
misinformed, gossip from muddleheaded right wing/anarchist windbags? Read the
original before you presume to condemn, stupid. "

Having read a lot of lenin, I prefer to look at Lenin in power rather than the election
manifesto. After all, "STate and Revolution" was never put into practice -- Bolshevik
dictatorship was. The Bolsheviks started to disband soviets which elected non-Bolshevik
majorities by the spring of 1918 -- so much for "soviet power."

However, this the claim we should read "state and revolution" is a common Leninist
statement. Here's a a rejoiner from "An Anarchist FAQ":

H.1.7 Haven't you read Lenin's "State and Revolution"?
 http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secH1.html#sech17

For discussion of Leninism in power visit:

 http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secHcon.html
 http://www.infoshop.org/faq/append3.html

plus

 http://www.infoshop.org/texts/iso.html

and

 http://www.anarchism.ws/writers/anarcho.html

all discuss the authoritarianism of Leninism, based on a full understanding of
Lenin's ideas and actual Soviet history.

By why bother with reality when you have the election manifesto?

"Wow! After last Saturday you still think they're marginal and you're the real deal?
Hey, whatever makes you happy!"

Having been there last Saturday, I noticed how few SWP types they were. Last
saturday was a people's protest and very few people were their because of the
politics of Leninism.

"Wow! After last Saturday you still think they're marginal and you're the real deal? Hey, whatever makes you happy!"

Really? What did the SWP do last weekend? I look around the world and see a day of protests that speak to the power of anarchist ways of organizing. If the SWP had tried to organize this, it might have sold 231 papers, but that's about it.

And we'll take anarchists like Chomsky over unknown Trots like Calinicos any day of the week. ;-p

Ppl are saying last Saturday was nothing to do with the SWP and that anarchists organised it.. But I thought one of the problems with the Stop the War Coalition is that it's dominated by the SWP? Which is right?

And I didn't think Chomsky is an anarchist, is he?

"Ppl are saying last Saturday was nothing to do with the SWP and that anarchists
organised it."

No, what Chuck said was the much of the demos were organised in an anarchist
manner. Anarchists played their part, of course, but unlike the SWP we are not
claiming to have organised it all. And Chuck0 is talking from a US perspective,
were the SWP is even smaller than here.

"And I didn't think Chomsky is an anarchist, is he?"

Yes, Noam Chomsky is an anarchist. Have a look at the Chomsky archive at:

 http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/index.cfm

There you will find lots of articles by Chomsky on anarchism. Or have a look
at "An Anarchist FAQ" ( http://www.anarchistfaq.org), which quotes Chomsky
a bit.

"Ppl are saying last Saturday was nothing to do with the SWP and that anarchists
organised it."

No, what Chuck said was the much of the demos were organised in an anarchist
manner. Anarchists played their part, of course, but unlike the SWP we are not
claiming to have organised it all. And Chuck0 is talking from a US perspective,
were the SWP is even smaller than here.

"And I didn't think Chomsky is an anarchist, is he?"

Yes, Noam Chomsky is an anarchist. Have a look at the Chomsky archive at:

 http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/index.cfm

There you will find lots of articles by Chomsky on anarchism. Or have a look
at "An Anarchist FAQ" ( http://www.anarchistfaq.org), which quotes Chomsky
a bit. His introduction to Rocker's "Anarcho-Syndicalism" is worth reading.