UK.Indymedia.org has turned into a home for loser freaks who just want to rant about "the Jews" and "the zionists" and Israel every day. They rarely acknowledge the insane radical islamic extremist factions that make war against Israel that result in regular moderate palestinians and the average israeli being caught in the middle. They like to pretend that islamic extremists who rant day and night about allah and god being great and killing the infidels are really just kidding when they declare that Israel must be destroyed regardless of any occupation or not. It's like some sort of fantasyland.

See, most Jews are too busy working as doctors, lawyers, professors, writers, businessmen, etc. to have time to bother replying to all the obsessive nutty crap that gets posted here these days. It's a shame. Normal conversations cannot take place if every day ridiculous anti-"zionist" nonsense, usually so devoid of fact and reality that any valid points get flushed down the toilet, flood these boards.

One thing I've learned is that anyone who rants about "the zionists" tends to be a lunatic. The NORMAL, SANE, EDUCATED people who criticize Israeli politics are usually able to do so while keeping reality and facts in mind. You can tell the nutcases, because they rant about zionism being (insert some ridiculous bullshit negative thing that isn't even close to accurate here).

I guess this is the nature of the internet, though. People with moderate views have no reason to need to force them down everyone's throat. But the people with hatred in their hearts, peole who are genuinely obsessed with stuff, and so crazed that their obsession results in them throwing facts out the window, need an outlet to rant and rave and express their idiotic views. What sucks is that the losers who do this seem to have a LOT of time on their hands, and they are warping the minds of moderate people who are ready to be infludenced by such radical crap.

The big picture is this. Israel isn't leaving. Israel will eventually unoccupy some land as soon as the leaders of the people who will get to be in control of the land are normal, sane, non-terrorist, non-extremist. Israel has had different leaders every few years. They are democratically elected. Every Israeli citizen of every race and religion, including about a million muslim Israelis, has a vote. Over the years, Israeli leaders have tried many different approaches. But the PLO, which formed three years BEFORE the 1967 war and "occupation," headed by Arafat, called for Israel's destruction and acted on it. You do NOT unoccupy land while the leaders of the land are still swearing to kill you. Palestinians have had THE SAME LEADER FOR ALMOST 40 years. Yasser Arafat. ONE GUY. One sick terrorist asshole. Now, Arafat is old and washed up, but even worse lunatics (hamas) are ready to take his place.

I repeat. You unoccupy land when responsible, sane leaders will gain control and shape the growing state into a responsible one. You do NOT unoccupy land when the likes of Arafat and hamas are the people who will get control.

Hamas are against Israel existing, PERIOD. They want every jew gone and Israel crushed forever. They are as extreme as it gets.

People who want peace for both israel and palestine should recognize that if Israel just ended the "occupation" and stopped hunting terrorists and just backed off and somehow locked their borders down, the palestinian state would be lead by the same terrorists who have run it all this time. It would eventually get stronger, and become a terrorist state just like syria or lebanon or iraq or iran or (etc.). But if Israel waits until somehow, somewhere, moderate palestinians who are not religious extremists and do not want to "die for allah" and just want to be NORMAL and SANE come to lead the state, and somehow those sane leaders can receive the power to control hamas themselves (so israel doesn't have to), then over time palestine will grow into a RESPONSIBLE state that doesn't attack israel and therefore avoiding massive deaths perhaps on both sides.

I want Israel to end the occupation and give palestinians land control. But only when the leaders are normal non-islamic-extremist people with the same values as anyone else. Not while the leaders are people who think if they kill jews, god loves them more.