Look mate, each time you post you make yourself
look like a troll fuckwit. Which perhaps is not
so dissimilar from who you really are. Smashing
windows, burning cars and banks is fun - get over it!
Dropping bombs on innocent civilians and conscripts
is fucking terrorism.

W@

 http://wombles.org.uk/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=G8Evian

please delete this spammer post
thanks.

i've got nothing against no-global militancy, what do you expect people to do, go around every year with a placard saying people not profit, like they'll care.

militancy is the only way to get the message across even if its used as right wing propaganda for views agaisnt us who are agaisnt the G-8.

dropping bombs on iraqi kids is freedom and resisting global capitalism is terrorism...???

My dear Cop, Yes you know the law by heart, your superiors have done a Good job with you. And yeah!! since American "self-goal" (Also called September the 11th)we are all terrorists, so what? Is just a title, I am not scared of protesting against someone like the Gang of the 8 ( also called G8) no my dear... I would rather have people breaking windows in Mc Donalds and Gucci's shops, than the massive death of Irakies( but sure, who cares?lets worry about ... WINDOWS!!) You sweet cop are only a product of the people that represents you, your prime minister, your President Bush, stay there in you confy coach, watching your CNN news, and don't you worry about Indymedia, we don't have news for people like you .. Wipe your eyes my dear cop and finish that cider off!

"Terrorist" is such a handy label these days for anyone you don't like/agree with, don't you think?

As for the increasingly desperate/sad/neo-fascist "Realist" - Jeez, what a loser!

I await his next posting "Say what you like about Hitler but at least he stood up for law and order and made the trains run on time."

MM

My dear Cop, Yes, you know the law by heart, your superiors have done a Good job with you. And yeah!! since American "self-goal" (Also called September the 11th)we are all terrorists, so what? Is just a title, I am not scared of protesting against someone like the Gang of the 8 ( also called G8) no my dear... I would rather have people breaking windows in Mc Donalds and Gucci's shops, than the massive death of Irakies( but sure, who cares?lets worry about ... WINDOWS!!) You, my sweet cop are only a product of the people that represents you, your prime minister, your President Bush, stay there in you confy coach, watching your CNN news, and don't you worry about Indymedia, we don't have news for people like you .. Dry your eyes my dear cop and finish that cider off!

The IRA announced a ceasefire - because it was politically expedient to do so at the time they chose to do it. Their freedom fighting did boil over into terrorism - the target for which was the British imperialist state - a legitimate target. If the odd shop front or office block got bombed in the process, I'm afraid that was/is path of the course (Civilians are of course a no-no). Violence to property if properly targetted is legitimate, and it serves the dual purpose of giving visual representation to the destructive nature of capitalism - bringing it home-to-roost for the G8 and their diplomatic entorage.

This is the reality. Get over it.

Realist posts often on the Ontario IMC. He is actually at least two members of the police force, paid to go through IMC sites and trying to disrupt discussion, create dissent, and start arguments to deflect the real issues at hand.

As a member of the IMC collective, my advice is to change the subject, don't let paid cops get any response. It's what they want.

The real violence comes from the police at these demonstrations; no protestor has ever shot a cop. We have a right and obligation to demonstrate and protest against the world's elite. They are raping our planet, destroying our environment, murdering our children and our future.

The meek shall inherit the dirt.
Go get em!

get real realist

power concedes nothing without a demand

go back to your hole pigboy

get real realist

power concedes nothing without a demand

crawl back to your hole pigboy

Basically what is said is that because the minority the vast vast minority of people in this world disagree with Capitalism etc they are allowed to terrorise, vandalise, attack etc etc to fight for their way of life. Somehow you seem to think you are special and that your MINORITY views should somehow overtake the views of the MAJORITY. Despite how repulisve this arrogance is... lets just go with this stance. DO NOT fucking complain when police etc boot fuck out of you because they are fighting for their way off life. Whats the problem? The only difference is that they have the backing of the vast majority of the population. I for one hope they give you a good hearty smack in the coupon. Once again interesting that "Anti Capitalists" are using the internet one of the KEY symbols of capitalism to promote there cause you dum ignorant fucks.

and I extend a hearty fuck you to those assholes who looted parts of Geneva, smashed cars, banks and generally came not with a message that could be understood, but like spoiled violent children

You fucking hypocrites - this is your principled stand against violence? Switzerland does not deserve this - I never voted law and order, but me and my compatriots watched you and your sympathizers have 'fun' being violent - I hope they arrest and deport on the spot every single one of these people..

this is not a way to make friends for a cause, as worthy as it may be

Well what a well-argued case - not.

I'd love to see your figures proving this vast worldwide "majority" in support of capitalism/imperialism.

Its certainly not the case throughout the Middle East, or in Africa, or a whole heap of countries where entire populations mobilise against globalisation.

As for the pampered Westerners - do you really think that bovine apathy or fear of the unknown amongst the cowed, propaganda-ridden population is the same as "support" for capitalism?

Once again, as you are obviously a bit thick: THE VAST MAJORITY OF "ANTI-CAPITALISTS" DO NOT "DO" THE WINDOW-SMASHING THING - IT IS INFANTILE AND COUNTER PRODUCTIVE.

WE DO NOT TERRORISE PEOPLE OR ANY SUCH BOLLOCKS - WE ARE ON THE SIDE OF THE PEOPLE WHETHER THE PEOPLE HAVE WOKEN UP TO THEIR DAILY SHAFTING AT THE HANDS OF THE POWERS THAT BE OR NOT.

And as for the Internet being a "symbol of capitalism" -what rubbish. What utter cock-arsed brain dead bollocks.

The Net is technology - which is not an exclusive property of capitalism and would do a lot better if it was allowed to flourish without the dead hand of profit levels messing up its priorities - less missiles, more cures for cancer, sort of thing.

Scaredy cat, get back to your copy of the Sun, fuckwit.

MM

To that guy who said internet is a symbol of capitalism: the internet was developed and created by the american state with american tax payer's money. It was then very kindly given to private companies who make an enormous profit off it. If the development of the internet is a symbol of anything, it is surely the symbol of state capitalism or possibly state socialism depending on how you look at it, or a symbol of capitalist theft, as they didn't create it, the us tax payer did.

Is increasingly being run on Open Source software - which is about as far from capitalism as it gets.

Indymedia sites are run on free software, recycled computers and volunteer effort.

Capitalist my arse!

;o)

Peace people,
no borders, no fear.

PS: I do actually agree with the fact that smashing stuff up is not a healthy way to build the movement. Much better to demonstrate peacefully and promote / live alternative lifestyles then sit back and watch the "elite" plummet back to earth as their vampiric thrones are suddenly dropped back to earth.

The demonic US military did it, so you can thank them for allowing you protestors to organize:

In 1973, the U.S. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) initiated a research program to investigate techniques and technologies for interlinking packet networks of various kinds. The objective was to develop communication protocols which would allow networked computers to communicate transparently across multiple, linked packet networks. This was called the Internetting project and the system of networks which emerged from the research was known as the "Internet." The system of protocols which was developed over the course of this research effort became known as the TCP/IP Protocol Suite, after the two initial protocols developed: Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) and Internet Protocol (IP).

In 1986, the U.S. National Science Foundation (NSF) initiated the development of the NSFNET which, today, provides a major backbone communication service for the Internet. With its 45 megabit per second facilities, the NSFNET carries on the order of 12 billion packets per month between the networks it links. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and the U.S. Department of Energy contributed additional backbone facilities in the form of the NSINET and ESNET respectively. In Europe, major international backbones such as NORDUNET and others provide connectivity to over one hundred thousand computers on a large number of networks. Commercial network providers in the U.S. and Europe are beginning to offer Internet backbone and access support on a competitive basis to any interested parties.

"Regional" support for the Internet is provided by various consortium networks and "local" support is provided through each of the research and educational institutions. Within the United States, much of this support has come from the federal and state governments, but a considerable contribution has been made by industry. In Europe and elsewhere, support arises from cooperative international efforts and through national research organizations. During the course of its evolution, particularly after 1989, the Internet system began to integrate support for other protocol suites into its basic networking fabric. The present emphasis in the system is on multiprotocol interworking, and in particular, with the integration of the Open Systems Interconnection (OSI) protocols into the architecture.

The intelligence agencies of all the world are already to the job. Because the more violent anarchical groups are organizing the next ones raid. And the more serious danger is that someone can arm them indeed in order.

The anarchists, for definition, would not have to be organize to you. But the J20 operation , 20 July, has been an example of perfect military and political planning in order to carry the chaos to the apex of the G8 of Genoa and to force the police to show the violent face so as to to increase the proseliti ones between the movements more it moderates to you. It objects all to you caught up. "the campaign of Genoa has been happening and has sure stolen the scene to the governors of the G8" proclama to Panorama Chuck Munson , 36 years, anarchist from 15, original of Kansas City , librarian and web designer , one of the least recognized leaders of the Black bloc , the violent wing of the movement antiglobal.
Using same chat-linens of Internet and the situated ones of the anarchical groups, sending crittati messages at least two times if not quite four, in order to avoid of being intercept to you, the black coverallses have in the first place programmed already a year it makes the presence Genoa, as it turns out to Panorama. From the America, from New Zeland, Canada, the Basque Countries, the Germany and Great Britain they have asked their simpatizzanti in Italy for being able to rent various apartments right in the center, in the "red zone", that one off-limits around the Ducale Palace and to the port. In many cases they have been pleases to you. It seemed made. Senonché the informers of the Sisde, one of the two intelligence agencies, placed in the Italian groups have put in alarm the police headquarters of Genoa. And the rents or the sublets have been block to you just in time.
The second infiltration has gone better of "casseur". They are some arrives to you to hundred from 11 countries, even from the Lituania, to begin from the half of june. They are uniforms in several Italian cities and are resolutions to escape various to all the controls from their companions whom they are introduces you to the frontiers of the Brennero, Ventimiglia and Ancona after the 14 July, day in which has been suspended the treaty of Schengen, and have been rejected.
Those most expert ones and determine to you have headed to Genoa in order to take contact with the ultrà one local engage to you like guides of the city, an other way in order to benefit on the commanders of the units of the police and the police officers, coming from from others capoluoghi. To small table they have studied where and when to attack, which instruments to use, than what to burn, as to infiltrate and to divide the cortei it organizes to you from the Genoa Social Forum . Two days before the J20 , the fatidical date of the first phase of the city guerrilla, a hundred of young people is resolutions to occupy to Quarter, near Genoa, the maxicomplesso of the put provincial administration to disposition of the Cobas and the social centers. And then, fridays 20, to the unexpected one have triggered hell after to have worn black masks and plushes and hidden in zaini the T-shirt innocents white women whom they had until that moment. As from script " the black bloc it is not an organization, but one tactical " specifies Munson . "Anarchical and Marxist antiauthoritarian they use it in particular occasions, like note to Genoa, for determined opporsi to summit political or to one a particular situation. In kind the call to the crews previews also the explanation of the reasons for which the Black bloc comes organized beyond to the day, the hour and the appointment. In the majority of the cases the argument happens via Internet. Some time, in order to avoid the police, the preparation is estate segreta".Professionisti of the guerrilla, the black coverallses, compartimentate in cells in order to render the infiltration of the police more difficult, they leave little, or nothing, to the case. The confirmation Josu Egireun , 47 years, banking of Bilbao, member of Hemen eta Munduan (in Basque Here and the World), the only not known in the Basque Countries, present collective "global" to Genoa: "If watches itself well it objects they to you attacks to you from the black bloc during the G8 is understood that they had been all chosen ones before: as an example, the storees that sold transgenici foods ".
But also the banks, the concessionaires of car, the branchs (office) of some multinationals: all symbols of the " table of Capitalism " and therefore of the globalization, all to second destroy to the instructions of citatissimo the Pierre-Joseph Proudhon ("the property are a theft"). "the black bloc in future they will become more diffuse and they will attract an increasing number of revolutionary" previews always Munson (unfortunately is also the analysis, after Genoa, of the Italian intelligence agencies, ndr). "their same radicalisms are increasing and this since the participation of the police ends in order to create more radicals than how many dissuada some".
The guerriero antiglobal never does not rest. After Genoa it touches to Washington , the 28 next september, date of beginning of the assembly of autumn of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. The arguments in the chat room already are begun in order to establish the better technique above all in order to go around the traps of the city police and the Fbi . The world-wide net of the chaos, than also does not have heads still recognized, but only "similar with more battles to the shoulders", it has always a program and expirations to respect. The time to Seattle is therefore from when "sfasciatutto" they are enters to you in action before, to the apex of the world-wide Organization of the commerce ( Wto ), to the end of November 1999 in the N30 operation (30 November). They come but still more from far away, the first years 80, when the squatter German they occupied migliaia of palaces abandons to you to Frankfurt, Amburgo, Berlin and they succeeded to reject the police, that it gave they for before turns the name of " Schwarzer bloc ", black block. A heterogenous, but efficient movement, been born in atmospheres of the " Autonomen " and then increased until comprising also the Naziskin of the Germany orients them, the witness rasate of the Blood and Honour, SSS, group 88 (from begins them of Heil Hitler , eighth letter of the alphabet): even if on opposite ideological foreheads regarding the anarchists, the Naziskin is oppositori of the globalization, in this case in order to defend the Ariane race, as it supports their ideologist Horst Mahler , former terrorist of the Raf and hour head of the skillful extreme party, Npd. Between the various ones black bloc of the world, those Germans are feared above all for their nichilista violence. They have logistic bases in the former occupied houses, transformed in social and cultural centers, often it subsidizes you from the common ones generous and equips to you of computer it connects to you in net, newspapers, knows them concert and with own checking accounts, lawyers and doctors always to disposition. According to a confidential relationship of the Verfassungsschutz , the unit of the German police for the defense of the constitution, is currently the 8 mila militants of the teutonico black block. In the same document law that, based on the made assessments, the anarchical and independent centers are is financed to you from the so-called communist Platform, the extreme wing of the PDS (former Communist Party of the Ddr), guided from the combative Sara Wagenknecht .
All enough young, between the 18 and 25 years, the German Ayatollahs of the anarchy can indeed be considered losing the globalization: they are it vacates to you, squatter, punk, tramps for choice, former drug addicts, alcolizza you, but also hooligan from stage. But they have made school before in Europe (Holland, Sweden, Great Britain, Greece, Spain and Italy) and then in the rest of the world, in the United States, even in Australia and New Zeland. From Seattle to Washington, from Praga to Gòteborg and hour to Genoa the black coverallses in these two years have not never lost a single apex in order to burn car and cassonetti, to destroy storees and banks, to provoke the police and then to disappear in null ("the Off, off "urlano before the traditional" We won") leaving the rest of the movement to endure the consequences, as it is capitato to the pacifists of Lilliput during the genovesi cortei.
Which thing to make with they? How to avoid the encirclement? The leaders antimondializzazione not have still decided the better way in order to face them also because they have not melted the annoso doubt if they are "provocative to the service of the understood one them", "lacchè of the police", or "companions who mistake". For the truth the point is not this. It is that it would be necessary to isolate them end from the next protest to Washington. Also because the damages endured from the movement in its complex are more and more serious. The violence takes the windward on whichever social message. The emulazione door to the first victims as it has happened to Genoa and before still in Papua New Guinea (four manifesting killed). But above all the more tests between the guru of the movement, the enviromentalists, English of Drop the Debt, Amnesty and Greenpeace, after Genoa will have to avoid a danger put in evidence from the relationships of the Canadian intelligence that is about to face " black " the next year: the analogous groups to the Black bloc could soon be armed not with spranghe and Molotov cocktail, but with guns, guns and bombs. Then it would be indeed the end of all.
( they have collaborated Gian Antonio Orighi, Paul Pontoniere and Walter Rahue )

A terrorist is one who uses armed force against the innocent(like GW Bu$h or Bin Laden). Well, I don't call those who sell clothes made in sweatshops with bonded labor innocent, anymore than Starbucks or McDonalds. Also, there is a big difference between destroying the fruits of slave labor and toppling towers full of working class people. Please stop the tired comparison between those who fight for justice, using no more force than necessary to the thugs who hijack and crash planes or bomb whole cities to rubble!

We are facing in the Bu$h Regime in America the greatest threat to world freedom since 1945, and the corporate globalizers are behind him all the way. In this desperate struggle against the Dark Lord Bush, we must all do whatever we can, and whatever it takes to stop the evil.

Also, it is REAL IMPORTANT that Bu$h be prevented from "mending fences" with Chiraq, because the Bu$h-Chiraq dispute over GMO foods and otehr aggro issues is currently beleived to be on course to derailing the WTO summit in Cancun this fall, and some London trade newspapers predict this will mean the end of teh WTO.

Dear Realist
The 1974 Prevention of Terrorism Act no longer exists, it has been replaced by the 2000 Terrorism Act. Just thought you should get your facts straight before you start spouting off stuff you know nothing about.

The internet is not capitalist, it is merely the latest technological advance that has been harnessed by capitalism to create profit (we all remember the "boom" but did anyone notice it happening?) same with the railways in the 19th c. and cars in the twnties.


Most of the people using violnet and direct action should probably be using their energies on raising people from their ignorance or apathy of capitalism. Only when enough people are aware of what is being taken from them and are willing to fight against it will violence be of any use.


Notice realist's definition of terrorism makes no mention of the morality of the cause, or it's support among the majority.

Tom: you give a useful summary of the history of the 'net, but in those terms your piece misses i think 2 crucial currents. Parts of that history are ignored.

Firstly, the culture of Internet life is missing from your piece. The netculture surely plays an important part in shaping its evolution and character. Yet you concentrate on the institutions, governmental, corporate and academic, which between them share the labelling, ownership and control of the backbones you mention. What about the different ways of communication that were developed on the net not by the institutional control you fetishize but by life itself, anarchic and free net people just doing it over many years?

Your fetishization of what you call the 'backbone' of the net may be useful as a counter to the general emphasis on net culture within the non-(local)root areas of that culture. But backbone is more than just institutional control. It is working people that give the net its backbone: we who lay the cables, build computers large and small, process data and make the tea. Here is internet life and it cannot be reduced to a few impressive sounding acronyms, however seductive they sound.

I've organised protests without the internet. But you can't organise without communication. The efficiency of the net as a communiations device developed both within and without capital-ism, mostly as a mixture of state control and anarchy control. Inititially and at the crucial first blooms of real growth, capital didn't get much of a look in. That was an accidental victory for anti-capitalism. But it is a victory (if you can call it that) which for years has been increasingly been challenged both institutionally (as Nin points out) and culturally. Privatisation, pop up adverts and online shopping have been major impediments to the real growth of the internet. Capital, far from inventing the internet, has systematically been fucking it up, colonising it and co-opting it for its own needs. Tom doesn't seem interested in this. Neither does his piece give any respect to workers or netheads for their vital and wealth-creating contribution to this bizarre, fascinating and useful system we call 'the internet'.

Keep the networks open!

Tom: you give a useful summary of the history of the 'net, but in those terms your piece misses i think 2 crucial currents. Parts of that history are ignored.

Firstly, the culture of Internet life is missing from your piece. The netculture surely plays an important part in shaping its evolution and character. Yet you concentrate on the institutions, governmental, corporate and academic, which between them share the labelling, ownership and control of the backbones you mention. What about the different ways of communication that were developed on the net not by the institutional control you fetishize but by life itself, anarchic and free net people just doing it over many years?

Your fetishization of what you call the 'backbone' of the net may be useful as a counter to the general emphasis on net culture within the non-(local)root areas of that culture. But backbone is more than just institutional control. It is working people that give the net its backbone: we who lay the cables, build computers large and small, process data and make the tea. Here is internet life and it cannot be reduced to a few impressive sounding acronyms, however seductive they sound.

I've organised protests without the internet. But you can't organise without communication. The efficiency of the net as a communiations device developed both within and without capital-ism, mostly as a mixture of state control and anarchy control. Inititially and at the crucial first blooms of real growth, capital didn't get much of a look in. That was an accidental victory for anti-capitalism. But it is a victory (if you can call it that) which for years has been increasingly been challenged both institutionally (as Nin points out) and culturally. Privatisation, pop up adverts and online shopping have been major impediments to the real growth of the internet. Capital, far from inventing the internet, has systematically been fucking it up, colonising it and co-opting it for its own needs. Tom doesn't seem interested in this. Neither does his piece give any respect to workers or netheads for their vital and wealth-creating contribution to this bizarre, fascinating and useful system we call 'the internet'.

Keep the networks open!

Hey I support realist on this one. Violent protest = terrorism.

Why not make a point by protesting peacefully and through democratic means?????!

When Bush said "You are either with us or against us" the standard was set, if being against=terrorist then I wear the badge with pride.

Nazi unrealist is losing it again, catch a grip unreal nazi, you're letting cool headed logical nazis down, with your illogical ranting. Unreal nazi goat has the vision and imagination of a balding fat constipated geography teacher. WISE UP YOU OLD NAZI GOAT.

Pyms rantings begin again...

If anyone needs censoring its that lunatic to be sure.