WATCH BBC2 TONIGHT! WED 4 JUNE, 11.20
Angry Manc | 04.06.2003 01:30
During the Six Day War in June 1967, Israel attacked and nearly sank the USS Liberty, a spy ship belonging to its closest ally, the USA. Thirty-four American servicemen were killed in the two-hour assault by Israeli warplanes and torpedo boats. Israel has always claimed that the whole affair was a tragic accident based on mistaken identification of the ship. The American government publicly accepted the explanation.
During the Six Day War in June 1967, Israel attacked and nearly sank the USS Liberty, a spy ship belonging to its closest ally, the USA. Thirty-four American servicemen were killed in the two-hour assault by Israeli warplanes and torpedo boats. Israel has always claimed that the whole affair was a tragic accident based on mistaken identification of the ship. The American government publicly accepted the explanation.
Yet for thirty-five years, the Liberty survivors have persisted in their view that the attack was intentional: that Israel deliberately attacked their ship, and that the US government knew they had and colluded in a cover-up.
Dead In The Water reveals the truth behind the seemingly inexplicable attack, and for the first time shows how the incident almost led to a US nuclear attack on Egypt, mistakenly held responsible for the assault on the Liberty. It also exposes the secret collaboration between America and Israel before and during the war: a covert alliance that has always been denied by both sides.
The film tells a gripping and chilling story, with new access to crewmen, senior American figures including former US Defense Secretary Robert McNamara and CIA chief Richard Helms, and officers in the US and Israeli intelligence services, giving their version of events for the first time.
Yet for thirty-five years, the Liberty survivors have persisted in their view that the attack was intentional: that Israel deliberately attacked their ship, and that the US government knew they had and colluded in a cover-up.
Dead In The Water reveals the truth behind the seemingly inexplicable attack, and for the first time shows how the incident almost led to a US nuclear attack on Egypt, mistakenly held responsible for the assault on the Liberty. It also exposes the secret collaboration between America and Israel before and during the war: a covert alliance that has always been denied by both sides.
The film tells a gripping and chilling story, with new access to crewmen, senior American figures including former US Defense Secretary Robert McNamara and CIA chief Richard Helms, and officers in the US and Israeli intelligence services, giving their version of events for the first time.
Angry Manc
e-mail:
angry3manc@hotmail.com
Homepage:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries
Comments
Hide the following 15 comments
BBC blaming Israel??!!!
04.06.2003 02:25
Surely the documentary and the BBC are anti-semitic!!!!!
Targetted killings
Shhhhh......
04.06.2003 09:02
Leap of Faith
telling the truth is anti semitic
04.06.2003 09:23
and anyone daring to utter even mentioning the fact is a goose stepping raving nazi and will be stoned to death on the spot. heil sharon !!!
town halls
anti semitic
04.06.2003 09:51
sceptci
anti-semitism
04.06.2003 10:05
Yes they are, well spotted. the BBC is responsible for a constant stream of anti-Semitic propaganda. more so lately with, amongst others, the Panorama programme suggesting that Jews control the USA.
Anti-Semitism at the BBC:
> Israel attacked the US to blame Egypt... hmmm... and almost triggered a nuclear war...
Tell me, why would it trigger a nuclear war? Egypt doesn't have nuclear weapons. why oh why would the USA launch nuclear weapons at Egypt??? USA has been involved in REAL wars in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq (twice), and has not used one single nuclear weapon. why would they launch one at Egypt for ALMOST sinking a lone spy ship?? why? because the claim is preposterous, that's why.
> hmmm... is it not then possible the Mossad also attacked the US on 9-11
No, it isnt. another ridiculous, and yes anti-Semitic, bullshit conspiracy theory. more gossip bollocks. 19 Arabs hijacked 4 passenger jets on 9/11, on the understanding that they would be sent to paradise with 70 virgins if they killed 'infidel' Americans.
> But hey, Anti-Semitism is a much more serious offence than a nuclear war against Islam!
Anti-Semitism is serious, especially when small-minded pratts take it as gospel that Jews are always responsible for everything that's wrong with the world.
> yep telling the truth about Israel is definately anti semitic
No. lies and concocted bullshit about Israel are often perpetrated by extreme right-wing idiots who ARE anti-semitic. the extreme left-wingers have now caught on to this fashion at an alarming rate. so much so that anti-Semitism is now mainstream and 'acceptable' amongst many small-minded elements in Britain. you appear to belong to one of these elements.
Anti-Semitism in Britain:
Jamie
Zionist Scum
04.06.2003 12:08
being Anti-Zionist IS NOT being anti-Semitic.
Zionism is anti-Semitic!
Waltzing Matilda
to the brain-dead Waltzing Matilda
04.06.2003 13:45
Zionism: A policy for establishing and developing a national homeland for Jews.
what's your problem with that? why does that make people who believe in this concept 'scum'??? why shouldn't Jews have a national homeland? why do u deny them this right? answer.
> come out with this shit of someone being anti-semitic every time Israel is critisised.
Israel criticised, no. Israel criticised unfairly or on the basis of lies, yes.
"Mossad responsible for 9/11". bullshit. lies.
"Jews controlling the USA". more bullshit. more lies.
blaming everything on the Jews. total bullshit. blatant anti-Semitism.
> Your standard response is wearing abit thin.
its a standard response to standard anti-Semitism. the anti-Semitism is what's wearing very thin.
> being Anti-Zionist IS NOT being anti-Semitic.
wrong. see the above definition of Zionism. denying a people their right to a homeland is racism. in this case, it's anti-Semitism.
> Zionism is anti-Semitic!
complete bollocks. yet again, i find myself pointing u to a dictionary. would u care to offer your explanation as to why u think Zionism is anti-Semitic, rather than just spouting it as if we should just believe this crap?
your rabid response gives your game away mate. calling me "Zionist scum" shows the contempt u hold for Jews. but other than that, what u actually said was jack shit. u offer no arguments, just anger and resentment. the above posts ARE anti-Semitic, and the pages i've given u show anti-Semitism. yet u defend them. explain why.
Jamie
key argument
04.06.2003 16:18
There is a disturbing parallel with the European far right, who have taken to claiming that all they want is for white people to have a right to 'their own state'.. which means a white-only state which in turn means ethnic cleansing / genocide, natch.
kurious
2+2=5 in the twisted logic of the zionist fan
04.06.2003 16:30
I rather think that quoting from a book written thousands of years ago and insisting it gives you the right to terrorise Palestinians off their land so armed fanatics from New York etc can steal it is racist. It is also a sign of a fundamentalism every bit as twisted as that espoused by the Taliban.
Those Jews born in the Mid-East have a perfect right to live there in peace - and so do the Palestinians. But what nonsense to say all Jews, anywhere, have a "right" to live in Israel. What about Christians? Why haven't they all got the right to move to Jerusalem or Bethlehem? After all, it's the home of their religion too?
The zionist argument is just too ridiculous for words. When the US backed death squads were murdering Christians in Central America - including an Archbishop gunned down in his own Cathedral, not to mention thousands of ordinary believers tortured and disappeared - did they suddenly have a "right" to escape persecution by stealing someone elses land?
Sorry Jamie, but you are NOT the chosen people. You are just flesh and blood like the rest of us and should be subjected to the same outrage as others when you argue for and commit ethnic cleansing.
As for the BBC if, as you shriek, it's anti-semitic, why does it debase language in precisely the same way as war criminal Sharon?
State sanctioned murder = targetted killing
Full scale assaults on civilians = incursion
Jailings without charge or trial = administrative detention
30 foot high apartheid wall = a fence
Illegal Occupation army = Israeli Defence Force
Etc, ad nausaeum
Boycott Israeli Goods
Ha blooming ha
04.06.2003 17:37
One mention of the word and the little jackboots hit the ceiling!!!!
Lonf Live Free Palestine!!!!!
Remember Deir Yassim
Your wrong Jamie
04.06.2003 17:44
Haidar
anti-semitism
05.06.2003 14:29
it does NOT demand a purely Jewish state. simply a state that Jews can call home, but it is not meant to be exclusively for Jews alone.
> There is a disturbing parallel with the European far right, who have taken to claiming that all they want is for white people to have a right to 'their own state'.. which means a white-only state which in turn means ethnic cleansing / genocide, natch.
There is no parallel whatsoever. people of any race or religion are welcomed in Israel. 20% of the Israeli population are Arab/Muslim, and they have the same rights and privileges (freedom of speech, freedom to vote and have elected representitives in the Knesset, full access to legal counsel, etc. etc.) as Jewish Israelis. In fact, Arab Israelis are treated far better in Israel than they are in most, if not all, Arab states.
> The New York Jews and the Russian Jews etc, etc, already have a home - it's called the United States, Russia etc.
The point is that Christians, Catholics and Muslims can take their pick as to which Christian, Catholic or Muslim country they want to live in. why shouldn't Jews have the same choice? Understandably, Jews kinda gave up relying on Christian and Catholic states during the Holocaust.
> But what nonsense to say all Jews, anywhere, have a "right" to live in Israel
i actually agree with this point, as do many Israelis.
> When the US backed death squads were murdering Christians in Central America ... did they suddenly have a "right" to escape persecution by stealing someone elses land
No, but like i said, there's a multitude of alternative Christian countries they could escape to. the Jews did not have this choice pre-Israel. a quick look in the history books also reveals that the land of Israel was GIVEN to the Jews by the UN.
> Sorry Jamie, but you are NOT the chosen people
i never said i was. neither do many Jews. and for your information, im not Jewish.
> As for the BBC if, as you shriek, it's anti-semitic
i do shriek, because it is. have u followed the links i provided u with?
> State sanctioned murder = targetted killing
Israel is dealing with terrorists who will murder innocent Israeli civilians if the Israelis dont kill them first. I prefer to side with the Israelis than with terrorist cowards.
> Full scale assaults on civilians = incursion
Its not a full scale assault on civilians. the terrorists hide among civilians. Israel goes after the terrorists.
> Jailings without charge or trial = administrative detention
We also have anti-terrorism laws in the UK that permit the holding of terrorist suspects without charge or trial.
> 30 foot high apartheid wall = a fence
Please explain why it is an 'apartheid' wall? or did u just pick this phrase up from the BBC? the 'fence' is a defensive barrier to keep Palestinian terrorist nutjobs from entering Israel in order to blow themselves up in civilian buses and cafes. if terrorist loonies kept walking into your garden to try to kill u, i think u'd build a fence around it as well.
> Illegal Occupation army = Israeli Defence Force
Illegal in what way? explain why noone has even tried to take Israel to court for the last 30 years? explain, if u think it's illegal, why u dont take Israel to court? which 'crime' has Israel committed?
> So anti-Zionism does not mean anti-Semitic
OK, if u want me to qualify, anti-Zionism is anti-Jewish, because Zionism means "A policy for establishing and developing a national homeland for Jews". anti-Zionism, by definition, attempts to deny this right to Jews. i actually have no quarrel with people who are 'anti-Jewish-settlers-who-settle-on-Palestinian-territory'. what i DO have a quarrel with is anti-Semitism dressed up as 'anti-Zionism'.
the point im making is that 'anti-Zionism' is now the commonplace, mainstream, 'trendy' and 'acceptable' 'excuse' (if there is such a thing) for anti-Semitism (or more specifically, if u insist, anti-Jewishness). ill-informed and plain stupid remarks like "Zionism is anti-Semitic!" or "Zionist scum" are all in common use on supposedly left-wing sites like this (not to mention the extreme right-wing hate sites), when in fact what they really mean is "I hate Jews" or "Jewish scum". a few years ago this kind of talk would've been unthinkable, except on the aforementioned extremist websites. the fact is all that's happened is the word 'Jew' has been replaced with 'Zionist', and 'anti-Zionism' is now commonplace on mainstream news sites. dont believe me? follow the links i've provided.
Jamie
.
05.06.2003 14:35
it does NOT demand a purely Jewish state. simply a state that Jews can call home, but it is not meant to be exclusively for Jews alone.
> There is a disturbing parallel with the European far right, who have taken to claiming that all they want is for white people to have a right to 'their own state'.. which means a white-only state which in turn means ethnic cleansing / genocide, natch.
There is no parallel whatsoever. people of any race or religion are welcomed in Israel. 20% of the Israeli population are Arab/Muslim, and they have the same rights and privileges (freedom of speech, freedom to vote and have elected representitives in the Knesset, full access to legal counsel, etc. etc.) as Jewish Israelis. In fact, Arab Israelis are treated far better in Israel than they are in most, if not all, Arab states.
> The New York Jews and the Russian Jews etc, etc, already have a home - it's called the United States, Russia etc.
The point is that Christians, Catholics and Muslims can take their pick as to which Christian, Catholic or Muslim country they want to live in. why shouldn't Jews have the same choice? Understandably, Jews kinda gave up relying on Christian and Catholic states during the Holocaust.
> But what nonsense to say all Jews, anywhere, have a "right" to live in Israel
i actually agree with this point, as do many Israelis.
> When the US backed death squads were murdering Christians in Central America ... did they suddenly have a "right" to escape persecution by stealing someone elses land
No, but like i said, there's a multitude of alternative Christian countries they could escape to. the Jews did not have this choice pre-Israel. a quick look in the history books also reveals that the land of Israel was GIVEN to the Jews by the UN.
> Sorry Jamie, but you are NOT the chosen people
i never said i was. neither do many Jews. and for your information, im not Jewish.
> As for the BBC if, as you shriek, it's anti-semitic
i do shriek, because it is. have u followed the links i provided u with?
> State sanctioned murder = targetted killing
Israel is dealing with terrorists who will murder innocent Israeli civilians if the Israelis dont kill them first. I prefer to side with the Israelis than with terrorist cowards.
> Full scale assaults on civilians = incursion
Its not a full scale assault on civilians. the terrorists hide among civilians. Israel goes after the terrorists.
> Jailings without charge or trial = administrative detention
We also have anti-terrorism laws in the UK that permit the holding of terrorist suspects without charge or trial.
> 30 foot high apartheid wall = a fence
Please explain why it is an 'apartheid' wall? or did u just pick this phrase up from the BBC? the 'fence' is a defensive barrier to keep Palestinian terrorist nutjobs from entering Israel in order to blow themselves up in civilian buses and cafes. if terrorist loonies kept walking into your garden to try to kill u, i think u'd build a fence around it as well.
> Illegal Occupation army = Israeli Defence Force
Illegal in what way? explain why noone has even tried to take Israel to court for the last 30 years? explain, if u think it's illegal, why u dont take Israel to court? which 'crime' has Israel committed?
> So anti-Zionism does not mean anti-Semitic
OK, if u want me to qualify, anti-Zionism is anti-Jewish, because Zionism means "A policy for establishing and developing a national homeland for Jews". anti-Zionism, by definition, attempts to deny this right to Jews. i actually have no quarrel with people who are 'anti-Jewish-settlers-who-settle-on-Palestinian-territory'. what i DO have a quarrel with is anti-Semitism dressed up as 'anti-Zionism'.
the point im making is that 'anti-Zionism' is now the commonplace, mainstream, 'trendy' and 'acceptable' 'excuse' (if there is such a thing) for anti-Semitism (or more specifically, if u insist, anti-Jewishness). ill-informed and plain stupid remarks like "Zionism is anti-Semitic!", "Zionist scum", "Mossad did 9/11", "Jews rule the USA/world" are all in common use on supposedly left-wing sites like this (not to mention the extreme right-wing hate sites), when in fact what they really mean is "I hate Jews" or "Jewish scum". a few years ago this kind of talk would've been unthinkable, except on the aforementioned extremist websites. the fact is all that's happened is the word 'Jew' has been replaced with 'Zionist', and 'anti-Zionism' is now commonplace on mainstream news sites. dont believe me? follow the links i've provided.
J
but Jamie
05.06.2003 16:27
kurious
gdag
05.06.2003 16:42
adgadg