ideas for an indymedia debate can be found here:

 http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NextFiveMinutes

"there should be a "rants" and "get it off your chest" forum for those who appreciate that kind of uninhibited "speak your mind" discussion"

One man's rant is anothers reasoned debate.

I really find this definition of ranting to be highly offensive, maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick, but this definition of ranring as something which needs to be shunted off to a side alley, so that the more 'sophisticated' amongst us can be spared some harsh realities is deeply offensive.

Already some are dismissing this as a rant. The term 'rant' is one of those nasty middle class terms used to dismiss any argument or expression anger which doesn't fit their superiority complex, & deeply offensive prescriptions on what constitutes acceptable behaviur or delivery of argument.

Here's a lovely little rant for you.

Shunt heated debate off into a side alley & this forum will just become a middle class wankers talking shop.

"we need..." Indymedia is what ever it is, a place for people to participate, each in the way they choose. So it's diverse, it's real, it's not a parallel institution where "experts" prevail. And if you want a particular sort of contribution, let's have it, the opportunity is there to be taken.

There is much potential good in the work of indy media.But there needs to be greater clarity and better ideas.For some of the discussion please see  http://members.aol.com/THEHOBGOBL/ There will be a opportunity to meet the group at the Anarchist Book fair in October.

On the other hand though, there's always room to raise up the level of debate, as surely that's what we're about. It's just unfortuntate that Molly chose to put 'ranting' at the 'other extreme' of her suggested 'think tank'.

This just makes Molly's suggestion look & sound like an attempt to impose a hierarchy of intellect. As a mature student many lecturers have found themselves being routinely harrassed by my 'ranting' as a result of them having the bloody cheek to lecture me with stuck noses on issues such as my body language & tone of voice.

There are clearly grey areas, but this whole issue smacks of a very ugly & persistent breed of classicism. Please remember that the origins of racism are rooted in the language of class (& it's emergence). It's only when the empire turned outwards that the language of the sub-human turned outwards too. The white working classes were steadily encouraged to turn the language used against them on the new 'outsiders'.

This is admittedly a seriously edited version of modern history, but the origins of racism are found in the origins of class, & the scientifically racist language attached to it, such as the vague yet somehow accepted definition of what constitutes a 'rant'.

But yes, let's have the discussion on what can be done to raise up the level of debate. Let's just not be imposing hierarchies in the process, & let's just stop being so bloody precious & subjective about how people should present themselves.

....then I can clearly see the only need for satellite discussion will be...

The Jewish propaganda mafia and anti-semitic idiots (all anti semitic accusations and so called off topic defence of the Jews when someone raises an anti Zionist or anti-Israeli fascist issue) Anti Zionism and anti facsist israli efforts should be treated as normal as long as they are newsworthy.

Adverts for any parasitic organisations living off UK 'alternative' sectors and activism.

All posts that repeat the views of the the mainstream UK media cartel (the deficiencies of which IMC-UK aspires to tackle)

Anyone who thinks that UK is a special place with special priviledges in the global arena.
Note: This should not include BNP ect. by default instead any defence against criticisms levelled against the UK's dismal record at being human.


All the others will have to meet eachother in one news wire and learn to sort it out.
Why spilt up and become too focussed when there is a need for us to learn to coexist for peace and harmony?

I have noticed that IMC Ireland has a lot more discussion than UK Indymedia
although they tend to ignore english issues,They do not censure tompaine but he is ignored