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Why the pisspoor coverage of the big London anti-war demo?

Contrast the appalling feature column coverage of Saturday's big anti-war demo in London with the blow by blow, hourly, coverage of DSEi.

As of saturday night 12 pm there was NOT A WORD about the demo in the central headlines feature column. Just individual contributions in the Newswire.

Why?

Is this yet another bit of narrow sectarianism toward the Coalition by UK Indymedia? Perhaps because the one of the components of the Stop the War Coalition is the SWP?

If this is the reason, then shame on you all.

Time to rescue Indyemdia from small-minded, muddleheaded, left-liberals and posturing anarchist provocateurs who have done nothing but whine about the Stop the War Coalition, and the SWP's key role in building it, since the day it was founded.

Will

Comments

Hide the following 23 comments

and why didn't you write a feature article?

28.09.2003 00:02

You could have written a feature article yourself, and emailed it to the features list.

mark

no conspiracy!

28.09.2003 00:09

come on, Will - you can do better.
Indymedia Uk is made up of volunteers.
As you can imagine, the hourly updating for dsei and the running of the access points was quite a bit of work for those involved, in London and elsewhere, starting months before the event.
This kind of full-on reporting is not something anyone wants to do every weekend.
Indymedia volunteers are not machines. They have lives, you know - friends, jobs, lovers.
I, for example, went to dinner with friends tonight after having spent the day working for indymedia - and posts like yours certainly won't make me change the way I spend my weekend. I don't have a problem with the stop the war coalition, to the contrary - but it would be a nice gesture for you to apologize for your insulting speech.

ionnek

ionnek

i wasn't there, but i know what happened

28.09.2003 08:20

um... coverage of what? I guess the day went something like this. you marched through central london, and listened to some speeches at Hyde Park, then you went home.

non-marcher

Well...

28.09.2003 08:26

actually we marched through central London and listened to some speeches in Trafalgar Square :)

One group that didn't march was Iraqi Kurds!

28.09.2003 09:04

One group who didn't march with you were Iraqi Kurds. The Iraqi Kurds supportted the war because they have been on the recieving end of Saddam's terror and oppression. Millions of Iraqi Kurds and for that matter Marsh Arabs suffered terribly under Saddam's brutal regime suffering mass expulsion from their homeland, massacres and terror.

These groups welcomed American and British troops as their liberators and can't understand why the anti-war movement is ranting against democratic America and Britain while ignoring Saddam's terror and oppression.

Rockwell

Oh really?

28.09.2003 09:15

I must have been hallucinating that Kurdish banner I marched behind then.

Open Eyes

More nonsense from planet rockwell

28.09.2003 09:57

I would ask for mr rockwell to check the history of the kurds.
Kurds are being victemised killed by our alli nation in turkey .
The two main gangsters that have run the kurdish area since it was effectivly cut off from iraq in 1991 have at times swapped sides supporting iran when it suited to supporting saddam when it suited there aims ,The kurds have suffered badly from saddam they have also done so from there own leaders and i dont see the unlected guy in the whitehouse bringing democracy just putting his favorite dictators of the day in power.
Just as the US and british pilots who partroled the old no fly zones how they felt when they were told to land so turkish jets could take off and attack the kurds inside the iraq area .
This area is more complicated than the yahoo good guys evil guys jingoistic sun reading crap coming from rockafella.
Does he propose a war with the turks ,who are commiting genocide on its kurds ?what about war with russia and its murders in grozny?
FACTS SHOW ON AVERAGE 1000 IRAQIS DYING EVERY WEEK SINCE THE END OF THE WAR A RECORD SADDAM COULD ONLY ENVY.

hurdi gurdi man

Something is happening here and you don't know what it is...

28.09.2003 10:52

Just to add to ionnek's comments...

Will, you don't understand how Indymedia works.

Almost everything is organised on open email lists (unlike the traditional left who fail to really understand the net and have closed lists, mostly hosted by Yahoo, for example:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Left_Network

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SocialistAlliance-discussion -- it is these sections of the lefts inability to use the net that played a key role in me giving up on them).

The list for UK centre column features is

http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-uk-features anyone can read the archives of this list without joining it, anyone can post to it without joining it and also anyone can join it -- it is an open list.

If you want to write a feature for the centre column it's just a matter of sending it to that list, the only rules are that it should have at least on link to a newswire item, it shouldn't go up for 24hours to give people a chance to consider it and finally if there are no objections then it can be posted.

Will, do you have anything to contribue other than centerist hot air? Why don't you write a feature on the demo?

Chris

Kurds in Rome

28.09.2003 11:10

Iraqui Kurds opened officially the huge anti-war demo in Rome, 3-15 2003.
Greetings from Italy.

Asto

Grow up Rockwell

28.09.2003 12:31

First off (if you'd been paying attention you'd know this), the march was about ending the occupation, not stopping the war. The war has already started in case you didn't realise. And two wrongs don't make a right.

Tris

All Hail the UN

28.09.2003 12:53

Unfortunately I couldn't attend this march because of chemtrail-flu, so I noticed there was only about one second of TV media coverage and then, they used the greivances of the anti-war lobby to pose the question...

What should done to resolve the problems, chaos and quagmire the Coalition have created in Iraq?

Cue... the UN who have the solution...

The UN playing a greater role in policing the World and pre-empting possible terror threats from rogue groups with a first-strike mini-nuke policy.

Our Saviour

Another response to Will by an imcuk volunteer

28.09.2003 13:17

Look Will, this is not how indymedia works. If you want an article about the anti war demo then you'll have to do a bit better than just complain. We have repeated this a million times, but it seems that 'lefties' like you just can't get it. I'll say it here just once again: Indymedia news and views are based on the contributions of thousands of people in the newswire. We (indymedia volunteers) do NOT write articles to the middle colum, we basically promote those that appear in the newswire into features. Indymedia volunteers are NOT paid 'journos', we don't seat in trendy offices, with nice wages waiting for our nice pensions. We ARE volunteers that donate our time freely. We have been doing so for almost four years now. I DID check the newswire yesterday afternoon and evening waiting for contributions about the anti-war demo to appear. No one single posting (report, photo, video, audio) was published in the indymedia-uk website, therefore no article was made for the middle column.

Maybe the problem is that there's not much to report about this kind of demo. Or put it his way, as it happens people didn't feel the need to report this demo, which makes me think that perhaps your beloved STC and SWP should think harder about mass movements and social movements ... but anyway this is entirely another subject.

So i for one, which, by the way i'm not a "small-minded, muddleheaded, left-liberals and posturing anarchist provocateurs", am not willing to put up with you fucked up, childish, stupid, narrow minded, useless criticism. If you want something done in Indymedia, just donate your time and effort to it and stop complaining. And ... as 'for time to rescue indymedia' .... what the swp? ... don't make me laugh! ... you would last five minutes in the indymedia global network ... but i guess ... once again ... you would not understand why :)

maqui

it goes both ways

28.09.2003 14:34

well in one of indymedia comunication channels (irc) some people did turn up yesterday specifically because demo and to help with doing any feature based on newswire posts.

It seems not who went to demo was up for getting reports back on the day, but may the day after we shall see.

Anyway as far as coalition if they want to be respected they will have to earn it, and in at an anti war rally in Glasgow last year, an Indymedia photographer was prevent from taking photographs of the crowd from upperdeck of coalition bus and asked to leave despite lots of room and speech a while off while corporate journalists encouraged.

I myself am pretty hostile to the 'Coalition' leadership ( CNDers as well SSPers ) for amoungest other things telling others at an anti war rally durring the war that a mate of mine had 'stolen from them', to get people to turn against him. He had given away anti-war badges to teenagers on day of outbreak of war thinking it be better they be warn than kept back.

But despite that I not only helped now and again to maintain this Indymedia easy accessable platform they can use, but actively gone out of my way spend time to enable some Coalition members to get there reports up here when they have engaged on a level with me, even if they focus on areas I am not into myself.

bunny
Homepage: http://j12.org/news/

Iranian News Last Night

28.09.2003 19:17

Iran's nighly English news had excellent coverage of the London demo as well as all the others around the world, to watch the bulletin click here

http://www.irna.ir/tv/2300.ram be quick before they change it to tonights programme.

They also report on Blair's dwindling popularilty - LOL!

Stuey
mail e-mail: stuey@surfanytime.co.uk

Bliar out yes but who in?

28.09.2003 19:57

Went to the march if only to experience the whole mass gathering thing and dancing in piccadilly circus to a samba band with Vadofone lurking above was one of the best reclaim the streets events i have been to. One thing persists though its all very well protesting like we do AGAINST the evils of the world but what do we exactly stand FOR? The movement has no central voice FOR anything only against, unless we come up with genuine solutions we will never be heard. The whole Blair out thing typifies this, yes get the lying bastard out but replace him with who? IDS the prophet of peace? or maybe Kennedy with his firm beliefs! With no alternative no wonder people tire of trying...

Rob
mail e-mail: robert.gee@kcl.ac.uk

Facts about the Kurds

29.09.2003 11:42

The Iraqi Kurds were oppressed by saddam for no reason! The Kurds in Turkey have only been oppressed as a result of terrorism against Turkish cities by the PKK a Kurdish nationalist terrorist group which since 1984 has murdered thousands of people in its war for a Kurdish state made up of a large part of Turkish land. Turkey has a right to defend itself against terrorism and has only ever acted to stamp out Kurdish terrorists not to oppress all Kurds in general!

Iraq on the other hand has conducted a pogram against all Kurds based only on their race! In the same way that Nazi Germany conducted pograms against the Jews. It was therefore right to declare war on Iraq in the interests of Iraq's oppressed minorities. Turkey on the other is only fighting terrorism and is not targetting all Kurds.

Rockwell

Bollocks about the Kurds more like

29.09.2003 11:51

Oh - all the above is highly inaccurate, by the way.

But you already knew that the minute you saw our white supremacist friend with his troll's usual habit of using lots of exclamation marks! To make it look as if he has a valid point! Rockwell is a twat!

"Saddam oppressed the Kurds for no reason!" - why the fuck would he bother? Cos he was a 'baddie'?

Cocksmell

Collective punishment

29.09.2003 12:16

Yet again our friend Rockwell is the apologist for the collective punishment of a people for the actions of a few. Usually it's the Palestinians, but this time it's the Kurds... I wonder if he'd feel the same way if it was white Brits or Americans?

For ?

29.09.2003 12:37

I'm for communities working together,
a decentralised government where people act as 'delagates' rather than 'representatives' (ie- they have to do what their communities want or be immedetely recalled),
I'm for renewable energy,
organic agriculture,
i'm for open software,
for freedom of information,
i'm for reclaiming the media,
for a world of fair trade rules,
i'm for internationalist solutions (notwithstanding the dilution of the power of the state),
I'm for legalising drugs,
I'm for working within local communities in order to create a bottom up system of justice, based on need and humanity rather than power and fear...

Mayler

Best IMC thread in a while

29.09.2003 20:03

This started off as being about IMC coverage of the London demo last weekend. A few IMC volunteers explained that it had not been featured because material had not been sent to the news-wire.

This could have ended with people who were on the march making a note to write something about any demonstrations they go on in the future and post it here, but very quickly we get a 'couple of regulars' (or 'regular couple'?) banging on with lots of invented facts about Kurdish history.

Huh, on the internet (which you are now looking at) it is really very easy to cross-check suspicious claims.

If you want a really good laugh about ignorant people who spout racist nonsense, can i recommend

http://www.theonion.com/onion3903/this_racist_propaganda.html

bobby
Homepage: http://www.theonion.com/onion3903/this_racist_propaganda.html

End the US Occupation of the UK

30.09.2003 17:18

I'd like to take this opportunity to put forward my opinion that we should also concentrate on getting the US Military out of our borders. The recent extradition treaty means that US forces can accuse any one in the UK of terrorism, and extradite and try them in the US, which means we are already no more than a satellite state of the most violent and aggressive state on Earth.

Its about time we put an end to the occupation of our country by these grunts, since we have our own grunts which we pay tax to keep well armed. I don't care what agreements were signed during WW2 when we had our backs to the wall, after Bush's banker of a grandfather had funded the Nazi party into power. I think they've (the US mil) been here long enough, 61 years in fact. It can't do our sovereignty any good, how can even an elected government make foreign policy decisions when the US could carry out an airstrike anywhere in the UK at a moment's notice?

Perhaps Californians could enjoy low flying strike aircraft and transport planes swooping low over their countryside. Moreover, Britain is no more than a huge human shield for Bush's USA - if the US weren't stationed here, there'd be one clear target for terrorists....

Jon Rees

.

03.10.2003 21:34

I would speculate that the people who run (no, not run, that's not the right word, you know what I mean) Indymedia are generally from the anarchist side of the movement and that so are the people who organised Disarm DSEi. So for that reason they are more likely to have felt more enthusiastic about the idea of making Disarm DSEi a special feature. They're more into direct action and get less inspired about traditional-style marches hence they're less inclined to put in the effort to report it in detail. That doesn't mean they don't support it. Different people (and different parts of the movement) are more into different areas.

But indymedia is totally open to absolutely anyone and those people are were particularly into this march should have made it they're responsibility to get some coverage on the front page.

Secondly, from what I know, the Disarm DSEi people had made contact with the indymedia people about the campaign well in advance.

Thirdly, whilst actual numbers were higher on the march, Disarm DSEi was possibly a more significant event. It was a lot more direct action-y, it went on for several days, including all day long on the tuesday and the wednesday, it featured people (albeit a minority) from all over Europe, and so on. So I think it deserved more coverage than the anti-war march. However, the anti-war march did indeed deserve front page coverage and as has been said, this could have been achieved if people sufficiently excited about this march to do so had taken the initiative themselves to write articles and submit them for the front page.

There are two poles in this movement (*) (ok this is a simplification) the traditional Left, and anarchism. Many people in the movement don't conform exclusively to one of these but fall somewhere in between. Anyway, there are these two sides of the movement. Indymedia is more part of the anarchist side of the movement. But it doesn't have to be. It's totally open to the Left and the Left needs to learn to make better use of it. This would (potentially) enable some constructive dialogue to take place.

More generally, the Left needs to learn to make better use of the internet in general.

--

(*) There are various other poles that could be described, such as the radical green movement and civil society NGOs that are opposed to neo-liberal globalisation but not necessarily to capitalism itself. Moreover, the "left" can be broken down into social democracy and marxism. But whatever... The point is, these are all just poles. Some people are situtated at one of the poles but many are somewhere in between.

Ozymandias

What an interesting bunfight

11.10.2003 11:08

What an interesting bunfight between Felicity and Will. With such appropriate names, Felicity suggesting both a feline quality, and perhaps the ability to get things done, and Will speaking for itself (and others as is usually the case.)

Can we simply remake the world in the image of our wishes? How many have died on such idealistic projects? How many times must we reinvent the wheel before we grow up?

We can simply sit around and hope the "system" will play itself out (due to its essential inner contradictions), or we can get angry and entertain ourselves with the illusion that others will be so taken with our intellectual prowess and charm that they will allow us to risk their livlihoods for the sake of a "better world."

Or we can get real and organise ourselves towards achievable goals and take responsibility for our own (collective) actions, our own (collective)thoughts and our own discussions as much as is possible. At that point we don't gain very much from blaming "the system" and it certainly doesn't matter what labels we wear (Nike or Marx, what's the difference, "Just Do It?" If only it were always that easy.)

Basically I think that Will sounds a bit arrogant and complacent when he urges others to wake up. And yes, wooly lefty liberals can fight for what they believe in.

So that's one more piece of polemic added to the stew, Dan

Daniel Taghioff
mail e-mail: clear.english@bigfoot.com

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