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whats in aname?

mozaz | 04.12.2003 17:00 | Sheffield

whats in a name? at the anti war meeting over 25 people pontificated for over an hour about the name of this coalition..

why when there are people being killed every day? why when sisters, mothers, grandmothers are being raped and abused every day by the dark forces that are in occupation in iraq..

why when brothers, fathers, grandfathers are being beaten, held captive and tortured on a daily basis..

why when the people of iraq are still without proper electricity, water, food supply and medical care..

we take for granted our privilages in this first world nation we call the uk agreed.. take for granted we have the privilage to celebrate capitalist-mass and enjoy that day with our loved ones..

but do consider for a moment those at guantanamo bay, those in afghanstan, the people in iraq what are they facing this capitalist-mass? likewise for many in the third world what are they facing this capitalist-mass?

true there are thousands of innocent working class women, men, children held captive in the prison system of the uk - what will there capitalist-mass be like? what will the capitalist-mass of the thousands in poverty be like this capitalist-mass?

meanwhile we pontifacte over a name i sincerely ask why the fuck we do this? the only good point to come from that dire meeting was the vote to support the fight back against the rise of the bnp here in sheffield..

however theyre only words? we need to follow through this vote with action see the edition of socialist review published by the swp an excellant artical on the rise of the far right and stack on the back is so damm right about howard the new conservative leader..

yes i have disagreemant with the swp and would not support the whole context of the argument but they raise importent questions that we should all reply to? that is the rise of the bnp? the continued occupation of iraq and the rise of imperialism.. mass movements are fine (but i doubt they work?) but we need more than just pontification and words lets start the real action?

mozaz..

mozaz

Comments

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A brief history of the SWP.

04.12.2003 19:51

The Socialiast Workers Party were an American vanguardist mini-movement, decimated and destroyed in the early 1960s by J Edgar Hoover's fledgling domestic secret service, the FBI. It's inconceivable that a similar thing didn't happen with its British arm, but instead what we have is an organisation thoroughly dedicated at its highest level (whatever its ordinary members may think) to the neutering and the watering down of any dissent; to get you running around chasing your own tail in incidents like the one you describe, in other words. O f course , I have friends in the SWP who will disagree with this entirely; but look at the evidence of yolur own experience. They're arrogant, authoritarian and they poison everything. Wittingly or otherwise, they may as well all be spooks.

Red Ted
mail e-mail: tedcurtis@hotmail.com

at least the web site has a good name...

04.12.2003 20:25

Mozaz's report is about the Sheffield Anti-War Coaliation having a debate about what to call themselves...

Their web site is called Sheffield Against War:

http://www.sheffieldagainstwar.org.uk/

Which seems like a sensible name to me...

Red Ted seems to confuse the US SWP, a Trot group that are keen supporters of Castro (in other words they have 'evolved' into Stalinists) who produce The Militant:

http://www.themilitant.com/

With the UK SWP who produce Socialist Worker:

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/

These groups are not related, however Red Ted's assement of then "They're arrogant, authoritarian and they poison everything." sums up the UK SWP fairly well...

I also disagree with Red Ted about the US SWP, the best book I know on this period of their history (and about the nature or political sects and cults) is The Prophet's Children: Travels on the American Left by Tim Wohlforth:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0391038192/qid%3D1070569086/026-5372505-8902866

# Hardcover 360 pages (31 March, 1994)
# Publisher: Humanities Press International Inc; ISBN: 0391038192

It's probably hard to get hold of these days but it has a lot in it that does apply to the UK SWP and Trot sects in general.

The US SWP central committe was never infiltrated by the FBI according to Wohlforth and he did get access to a lot of government documents.

I think it is probably Healyite paranoia that they were infiltrated...

In any case there is no need for sects or cults or any top-down groups at all -- they are all by products of industrial capitalism and now is the time to move on...

trainspotter

Reality check (history of the US SWP)

04.12.2003 20:57

It is perfectly true that the FBI harassed this organization essentially into non-existence. Probably because their "anti-subversives" division was bored and need to justify their budget. But that should NOT be taken as an indication that the US SWP had any significance.

That "mini" in the description was deceptive, "micro" would be more accurate. They never had any effect except by providing candidates on the ballot we could use to cast a "none of YOU bunch" protest vote. That's about the only useful thing the SWP managed to accomplish. Keep in mind, the purity can correctness of your ideology is USELESS unless you can convey this to "the people" and that the SWP never managed to do. NOT because they were subject to suppression but because they simply hadn't a clue how to move people, how to present an attractive vision of an alternate future wrokers might wish to fight for.

Mike
mail e-mail: stepbystepfarm mtdata.com

Reality Check (losers)

04.12.2003 22:06

Who are you wierdos who know the ins and outs of every sad left group in existence ever? No wonder the anti-capitalist movement is so shit when the majority of the idiots in it spend their time arguing pointless crap which has always been irrelevant.

get out more

This harsh reality.

05.12.2003 00:02

I can see that you have your analysis well thought-out, get; and that the world is divided into winners and 'losers'. Nice. Have a good time with your cider in the park, sonny.

Red Ted
mail e-mail: tedcurtis@hotmail.com

Bathroom accesories

05.12.2003 02:09

Red Thomas

UK SWP not related to US SWP!

05.12.2003 12:22

The SWP in the US and the SWP in the UK are unrelated groups with very different politics. The SWP (UK) sister group in the US are called Left Turn. May not matter to many people but it's nice to be accurate!

kurious

scum

08.12.2003 17:20

this being the last contribution i make here.. this was not an anti swp article but anti the whole left/ anarchist crapp.. if our lives are not impacted enough with the mono culture we have the even more boring crapp of sectarianism.. go hug some trees instead you sad anti swp wankers..

mozaz..

http://image.lowtech.org/maze (on line mid friday)