A network of individuals, independent and alternative media activists and organisations, offering grassroots, non-corporate, non-commercial coverage of important social and political issues.

Social Centres (Who are they meant for?)

Mr Daniel Petticrew (Camden Pensioners Forum) | 20.01.2004 16:37 | Free Spaces | Indymedia | London

Social Centres "Who Are They Really For?"

Why is it when various groups open up a new social centre they claim it's for the use of all the community, what! everyone in the community? Or is it just a place for the trendy types, the younger generation, Why is it when suggesting activities for elderly people it's knocked back? Why is that then? Are we to to old to enjoy a few activities? Why should we be excluded? We're residents in the community to you know. Why are we being discriminated against? Due to our age is it? The majority of us like activities other than the usual bingo you know? We like dancing and getting into the spirit of things, so why are some of you saying your squatting a building to turn it into a social centre so it can be used by all in the community when you exclude on the grounds of age? Why is it that when a neighbour went along to a social centre for a meeting, he was told to SHOOOSH? You'll get no support from the residents by doing things like that. How dare you treat us like that? You'll do stuff for younger people, yet older ones will be excluded, how is that fair? Looks more like to me that your social centre in Kentish Town is for the use of your own types and not the rest of the community. Why can't we have some activities for us to? Entertainment like live melody music, a tea dance perhaps, some performers, some theatre stuff a pantomime some art classes and so on. Let me tell you all something we're not all on walking sticks (even though that wouldn't matter) some of us are very active for our age, I'm 64 and I cycle everywhere and have done for many years and I could give some of you young people a run for your money. I was a life Guard for well over 35 years in the London Borough of Hackney, which I might add no longer has a lido so why am I being excluded and so many others my age we actually live on Fortress Road. I used to cycle each and every morning from Fortress Road to Hackney to work at London Fields Lido so I can say I'm pretty fit for my age. So why don't you all sit down and come up with some real ideas for activities that welcomes people of all ages and backgrounds. If these people do not cater for everyones taste then will anyone or any other group do something which doesn't exclude anyone over 55? I would seriously like to see some serious comments on this issue please.

Mr Daniel Petticrew

Mr Daniel Petticrew (Camden Pensioners Forum)

Comments

Hide the following 19 comments

Huurah for Mr Pettigrew

20.01.2004 16:57

I agree with him totally! Why does anyone doing anything turn it into an exclusive club for people of their own age & like them? Can someone from Camden reposnd to this? And if people trying to set things up, please take this into account.

young person with brains

Right On Mr Petticrew

20.01.2004 17:46

Well done Mr Petticrew, it's about time somebody spoke out on this and your right, I vwent to that place on Fortress Road with a few friends, it's been advertised as a political social centre, they held a no borders event on the 17th and on the flyer it stated "ALL WELCOME" well why are those who are a little oldewr than the rest of us are not treated like everyone else, how comes you lot in Fortress Road won't comment on what Mr Petticrew is saying, are you people blind as well as deaf? My grandfather is 70 and he's a very active man and so is my nan, they go to tea dances and enjoy themselves so why do you lot assume every elderly person is house bound, on walking sticks or in a wheelchair, I suppose you'll exclude anyone with a disability next.
The young person with brains is right in his comments should anyone else decide to open a place as a social centre they should take notice of what Mr Petticrew is saying and the elderly are absolutely right when they say things like "Now that we are old no one has any use for us" local athuorities forget about them when funding projects for the elderly in favour of younger people and you all down in that social centre in Fortress Road are doing exactly the same any decent individual would now boycott your social centre until you provide activities for older people. So come on lets have some comeback on this post.

Stephen Joesph (Rights for All)

fantastic!

20.01.2004 18:11

if this is genuine then i say fantastic! okay the message is bad, that the gentleman's experience was unpleasant, but that there is a market ;-) and an interest in the social centre in new demographic areas is great.

break out the activist ghetto!

The Wombles are responsible for that social centre.

20.01.2004 18:16

It's the wombles crowd who are running that place at 93 Fortress Road, I was there for the no borders event as well as the meeting with local residents, how do they expect to get the support from local residents when they won't listen to somebody else's opinion? Word spreads quickly round here, Daniel Petticrew lives three doors down from myself and he's been speaking to other residents concerning being excluded due to age. How dare they treat residents like they are nobodies, when the place was formally a community centre all age groups used it, it recieved hardly anything in funding and this also may be due to the mis-management of those running the place, alot of fraud went on unnoticed until the land was sold of to developers. Some of the discussions going on concerned what was going to take place on the no borders demo, that is how I heard about the wombles running the place. It shouldn't be called a social centre, it seems to be an exclusive venue for those with the same opinion and anyone with a view not to their liking is excluded. Lets hope there are other groups out there who welcome everyone no matter what age, colour, or nationality they are.

Mrs G. Duncan Resident of Fortress Rd NW5

Mrs Georgina Duncan (Resident of Fortress Road)

He's Genuine (Mr Petticrew)

20.01.2004 19:09

I remember that bloke, a bloody good life guard throughout the late 70s and early 80s when the pool wasn't being used in the winter time, he came out with the idea to train youngsters to ride their bikes on the road properly (Road Safety for Cyclists) until Hackney scrapped it, the summers were fantastic at the lido, when the bloke wasn't actually on duty he'd still come in to give people swimming lessons after a young kid jumped in the deep end and nearly drowned, this bloke would be an asset to any social centre especially doing road safety lessons for those who have bikes. It's not very nice when you get older and no one has anytime for you due to your age. I live on Richmond Road and the back of my house looks on to the lido, you'd see him sitting in one of the life guards towers making sure everyone was safe in the water, he was the senior life guard who trained other life guards and has to his credit several Gold Medallions which you only recieve if you are a life guard and have taken the course every three years, once the lido closed he went on to Hackney baths. It's out of order that these groups of people claim they've opened up a building so that the local community have a facility they can use, a space to be creative and do activities other than bingo. I wonder how these people would feel if roles were reversed?

Former user of London Fields Lido

Can this be Right?

20.01.2004 19:37

Are people over 40 really reading indymedia? Please let us know why!

Well done to everyone, this is such a heartwarming post. Now let's do something about it. Who's going to contact the Wombles (if it is them?) While I can phone the centre tomorrow and ask questions, and report back?

delighted

Lets get together

20.01.2004 19:54

I agree that age is an issue with alt. social centres etc. I also know that there are several Wombles aged from late 30s thru 40s, to in their 50s. I very much doubt they want to alienate local residents ( particularly from FORTESS Rd ). I think you should all get together and work this out. I also know age and gender has come up at various 'activist' meetings recently. I have not been down this social centre yet but have every intention. I myself find there is a problem with the 'cult of 'middle-class' youth' in activism but it would be erroneous to suggest this is across the board. Lets have some grey power. I would like to see pensioners involved in the Social centres network, Camden pensioners Forume etc etc.

Middle aged activist

Response to Mr Petticrew

20.01.2004 20:55

First off, it wasn't made clear why the person felt he was excluded. We have been open just over a week and had committed to two events.

The No Borders night organised by wombles with around 250 people, very succesful night including cinema, discussions and sound system. Around 20 odd locals from Fortess Road came down and most stayed to the end. The next day a residents meeting was organised with locals to discuss the future of the building as it is due to be demolished. The meeting had around 20 people at it and was advertised by leafletting around 200 homes in the area including the council estates. It is likely that the place will be evicted this week and that the building will be demolished by the end of the month, thats not to say the project will stop [keep posted for new location!].

It seems very wierd that someone feels excluded when for those of you who have seen us and how we work [radical dairy for example], we put in a load of energy to make the activities succesfull and listen to people locally. The fact that residents have commented means that the Occupied Social Centre, though being there only week, has made an impact and started some discussion off.

It took us a few months at the Radical Dairy to get the same trust of locals that we have with the occupied social centre on Fortess Road, hopefully we can continue it at the new place.

TO answer some of the questions posted. The person who was told to SHOOSH, because the meeting was about to start. It wasn't done it a rude way and the person, who is in a wheelchair, returned later for the HACKLAB benefit, he was also accompanied home by people from the social centre due to it being late.

Again, the place has been open for only a week. The place might not be there for long but if it had, we would organise regular public meetings to organise events, as well as expand the day to day use of the place. For example having a social club, or creche with experienced volunteers as well as activities for local kids. Surprisingly some local kids already want to help us occupy a new building!

Cheers

Alessio

Al
mail e-mail: wombles@hushmail.com
Homepage: http://www.wombles.org.uk

Fake posts

20.01.2004 21:21

Why am I so stupid. The above posts supposedly from "residents of Fortess Road", are all fake written by the same person. Sorry to dissappoint anyone. though some good responses. If you read the post on archive page 1259 - No borders night and the comment "WOMBLES [wanker anarchist]", thats the same person as well.

Please stop writing shit about wombles & social centres, you know who you are!

peace

Response to all posts...

20.01.2004 21:35

I really don't know what went on at the no borders event on the 17th I was to busy taking care of my partner and our new baby daughter, if Mr Petticrew would reply to this and inform us who and what was actually said to him, I'm sure we could resolve this situation. As my friend on the last post comment has said their no borders event was very well attended, even by some people from the Fortress road, due to my friends not knowing what would happen with the building and having only been in it for a week, maybe nothing could be organised for older people, when our stay at the building is un-certain and some may not wish to travel to far from their homes.
I'm sorry you feel hard done by Mr Petticrew, but I'm sure if you pop in to the social centre again and ask to speak to Alessio, I'm sure he can un-ravel what actually happened so that we don't have an incident like this again. If you could come back on this I'd be greatful.
Could everyone else please allow Alessio the time to sort this situation out with the residents concerned before anyone else makes any comments as we don't actually know what occured.

Thank you

P.

P.
mail e-mail: notorious.heckler

It's Fortess Rd not Fortress Rd

21.01.2004 12:12

How come all of the supposed residents of "Fortress Rd" can't even spell the name of their road correctly?! It's actually FORTESS!

I'm involved in the social centre and we've seen quite a lot of neighbours, including some older people come down there. People have been pretty suportive of us, including making statements for court to help us fight the eviction. We have really tried to be inclusive by going round leafletting and speaking to neighbours etc. and also by organising a kids space for the No Borders night.

Unfortunately we won't be there much longer. We were in court this morning and an eviction order was made, although not to be enforced until at least Monday, so we may only have one weekend left.

We are currently looking for a new building, and hopefully if we can manage to keep it a bit longer we'll have the time to plan a wider range of activities and events. We would welcome anyone who is interested in social centres, particularly those who have criticisms to get involved with the next place, and we're hoping that some of our neighbours in Fortess Rd will be involved too.

re

21.01.2004 16:52

i have been involved in the kentish town social centre and went to the no borders night.
Whilst i am not about to diss the social centre i feel there is a general reticence among activists when it comes to coomunity involvement...while i do not fetishise community action, as i dont fetishise DA, there seems some denying of reality here...the reality is that thru history it has been people outside the political community who have resisted oppression on a large scale....social change or revolution hasnt come from anarchists or others tho ideas have been periodically influential...

social centres should be a melting pot for all of the community...including political ones....it would be great to be out numbered by residents!...and our politics will be strengthened not watered down!! only in this situation can we really begin to tackle the deep diseasesin out society....power..institutioalisation...denial..alienation etc and their symptoms...sexism racism homophobia...crime...etc

This post may seem grandiose but it is something i feel passionate about...we have some letting go to do...not to let go of political power at our level makes us as inhumane and wrong as the leninists.....it is everythiing i dislike in party building...and is the biggest mistake activists make...we need to create a real groundswell....Direct Action and Community Action together!

simone

re

21.01.2004 16:58

simone

Social Centres...

21.01.2004 18:46

Well, yes, if this did go on, fair point. We've all got to engage with the people where we do our activism.

But I'd just like to comment on "Delighted's" contribution:

"Can this be Right?
20.01.2004 19:37

Are people over 40 really reading indymedia? Please let us know why!

Well done to everyone, this is such a heartwarming post. Now let's do something about it. Who's going to contact the Wombles (if it is them?) While I can phone the centre tomorrow and ask questions, and report back?

delighted "

Just about the most patronisng post I've read - "heartwarming" Jeysus!!%??**

John (aged 42 and three quarters)

re: fake posts

21.01.2004 19:21

looked at archive page 1259 for subject no borders and comment wombles [wanker anarchist] and found nothing - tried a search too - do you know where it is, or is the 'fake post' a fake post...?

delighted

21.01.2004 20:51

Dear J

Why is being delighted that indymedia is reaching through the youth barrier patronising?
What is wrong with 'heartwarming' at a time when most events seem to chill the soul?

I appreciate this may not be 'cool', but would like to know.

Yours sincerely,

Still delighted

delighted

Fake posts reply

21.01.2004 21:06

Here is the link:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/01/283754.html

And yes the posts from so-called residents are fake, someone has a little grudge. I won't embarrase the person further. Enuff said.

Important discussion on "community action". Community is something which is built not neccessarily inhereted in a geographical location. In one week nieghbours who have lived almost next door to each other have met, within the occupied social centre, for the first time. One funny situation was when a local resident asked another local resident how long he'd been involved in squatting social centres - both of them had come to the social centre for the first time that day.

An in terms of creating more depth to our actions and activities, the WOMBLES meeting had four residents from fortess road attend it.

A very inspiring and strange week

more on community

22.01.2004 15:29

I've just re-read the posts and found myself giggling. Although the posts are fake they are neither insulting or trite but make some sincere points about how we value the elderly popultaion in our society.

I agree that community does not just mean geographical which is why i referred to 'our' community. But it is a problem if short term social centres are only tapping in to 'transient' communities. This is the problem with squatting spaces and trying to build links in the local area. London has very transient populations, which in many ways makes it more important to work on rooting and building up trust with locals. This takes time, activity, and patience Maybe we should be looking at ways of creating longevity in what we do within the community.There is room for different kinds of social centres engaging with different kinds of communities, but lets not do stuff just for own eh? ps. this is not directed specifically at the wombles..but working with the community is not just about how many residents you get to your meetings...

simone

Ha Ha Ha

24.01.2004 06:29

If all the above comments are down to one person, then he/she really is a funny character I cracked up laughing, whoever you are you should be on stage, shame you were caught out though otherwise this could have gone on for weeks. I didn't find any abuse in any of it, your Petticrew character reminded me of that bloke from one foot in the grave.

nice one.

Amused Bystander.

Amused Activist

UK Indymedia

Social Centres (Who are they meant for?)

Comments

Huurah for Mr Pettigrew

Right On Mr Petticrew

fantastic!

The Wombles are responsible for that social centre.

He's Genuine (Mr Petticrew)

Can this be Right?

Lets get together

Response to Mr Petticrew

Fake posts

Response to all posts...

It's Fortess Rd not Fortress Rd

re

re

Social Centres...

re: fake posts

delighted

Fake posts reply

more on community

Ha Ha Ha

Global IMC Network