Stop The war demo, big mistake ?
anon | 04.02.2004 23:22 | Analysis
Hiya,
I'm a spokesperson for a Stop The War group.
I see the Stop The War coalition have announced another big demo in
London for the 20th March.
Our group had an open-discussion about this and we came to the
conclusion that in the current climate another A to B march is
sending the wrong message.
Their is a huge focus on WMD in Iraq, they can't be found, what a
surprise. BUT WE KNOW 100% where weapons of mass destruction are, i.e. the Airbases etc all around our country.
I know CND have a block the base march, at Menwith Hill, on the 19th March, this isnt enough. There should be five-ten demo's, even more, at airbases on the 20th March.
I've just came back from our group meeting & there is support
for going to the sites of the WMD'S.
But the STW coalition has the final say. Our group are seriously
thinking about going to our local airbase at Croughton.
The feeling is their TO BREAK FROM CRAP MARCHES, organise for a protest at your local base. WE KNOW WHERE THE WMD'S are, let's go there.
I'm a spokesperson for a Stop The War group.
I see the Stop The War coalition have announced another big demo in
London for the 20th March.
Our group had an open-discussion about this and we came to the
conclusion that in the current climate another A to B march is
sending the wrong message.
Their is a huge focus on WMD in Iraq, they can't be found, what a
surprise. BUT WE KNOW 100% where weapons of mass destruction are, i.e. the Airbases etc all around our country.
I know CND have a block the base march, at Menwith Hill, on the 19th March, this isnt enough. There should be five-ten demo's, even more, at airbases on the 20th March.
I've just came back from our group meeting & there is support
for going to the sites of the WMD'S.
But the STW coalition has the final say. Our group are seriously
thinking about going to our local airbase at Croughton.
The feeling is their TO BREAK FROM CRAP MARCHES, organise for a protest at your local base. WE KNOW WHERE THE WMD'S are, let's go there.
anon
Comments
Hide the following 25 comments
it depends...
04.02.2004 23:52
It depends what the main objectives of the 'Stop The War Coalition' are.
If the main objective is to get a few more people signed up for the STWC then another march from A to B would be ideal. That seems to be the general idea in the STWC leadership, but since they're all secretly SWP leadership with dreams of a velvet trotskyist revolution that would make them government, it's no suprise really.
If the main objective is highlighting hypocracy and fighting worldwide war and injustice then YES creative demonstrations at a number of the UK's airbases would be better.
In one EU country (i seem to remember it was the Netherlands during the start of the war) around 1000 peaceful protestors used wire-cutters to enter a US airbase from 1000 different places at the perimeter fence (i.e no-one entered at the same point...)...the police could only watch on as hundreds burst in and reclaimed the base for a day.
When people refuse to be sheep and have the courage to think for themselves then real revolutions happen.
xx
political common-tata
I Agree
05.02.2004 00:02
The focus on big demos in London is now (and maybe always was) counterproductive for radical activists. The problem is that the STWC is basically a front for authoritarian lefties (SWP et al) who see the need for demos as part of their greater party building exercise/seizing control plans.
In conjunction with this they fear, and hence try to prevent, direct action, as it is out of their control and influence, as well as it being something they're shit at - witness there crap ineffectual pickets that they call "taking action".
So, go for it, ignore the big demos and encourage others to do likewise. Airbases could be a meaningful focus and build some real resistance to the military-industrial complex - not symbolic shit like we see so often in London.
Again, great post!
Nonny Mouse
In Full Agreement
05.02.2004 00:45
In Bristol we've called a demo in our city centre, which some may take as another A-B Demo, but it's not tactically the same. If you have A-B demonstrations occurring in cities, towns & village across the country a great deal of gridlock is created around the country. In Bristol, for example, we enjoy blocking the M32, & what happens if every city blocks their main mototway vein? The country stops, that's what!
Another National Demonstration in London instead sucks support out of the regions, for no good reason. It guarantees that the nation *will not* stop as everyone is hurded into an A-B march in London with the nations motorways & city centres left safe and sound, and the military bases left untouched.
Tomorrow night we'll be discussing this new & conflicting call for a National Demonstration. I for one have had enough of the imposition by a tactically and strategically useless 'steering commitee'. I will not lift a finger in support of this latest national demo, and will instead be calling for this Global Day of ACTION to be respected and not once more turned into a damp national A-B squib.
James Venables
(In A Personal Role)
Bristol-Stop-The-War Communications
James Venables
Now is the time
05.02.2004 03:09
Imagine the turnout!!!
the anti war movement
should now be concerned with human rights'
immigration fearmongering, and the draconian
fear based normality culture of
'the war on terror'
we should be asking
why they are seeking to make shitloads of cash
from economic power-bases gained from
behavioral effects brought about by
the culture of division and fear...
there is money to be made from
security, terror alerts, surveillance...
disease speculation...xenophobia
it is this terror-war which NOW pre-occupies the whitehouse
as they seek to occupy another geo-strategic economic
marker on the PNAC map...
it is the new growth industry...
the more the powers ignore our lobby
the more the 'normal '
people take notice of their attitude...
and there is always the chance that some
'establishment' figures will finally 'twig'
what is occuring too...
I think it is always worth a go...
NEVER GIVE UP...
love cw
Captain Wardrobe
Who Cares?
05.02.2004 09:45
D.U.
and their graphics are crap
05.02.2004 11:36
For me, one of the most painful things about the Iraq business was the ineffectiveness of the national Stop The War organisation. It looks as though they were only there to de-fuse widespread anti-war feelings by making us all travel up to London just to play with the cops. Imagine what 2,000,000 people could have done at USAF Fairford.
At first stopwar.org.uk (sic) pretended USAF fairford didn't exist. When they finally did acknowledge the small matter of American B52s based in Gloucestershire (the planes that were actually doing the killing; DU, cluster bombs etc., etc...) the 22 March 'Flowers To Fairford' (
I might mention these coaches again...
The willingness of stopwar.org.uk to get people on busses to London knows no bounds.
Amber B
Homepage:
http://www.fairfordcoachaction.org.uk
keeping it big, keeping it visible
05.02.2004 12:17
First, keeping the movement big means keeping involving (and re-involving) people who aren't so politicised. Marches are big, safe events where arrests rarely happen so a lot of people will turn out for them who are not (yet) ready to get stuck into direct action.
Second, big marches and protests do get some media coverage, certainly not fair or proportional but some nonetheless, and that's important for building the sense of global solidarity which has been key to the whole mood and direction of the movement. In particular, reports of Stop the War marches in the UK have had a powerful positive impact in Arab countries, just ask activists from Egypt and Jordan.
As ever, why must we make it either-or? Can't we go on Stop the War marches and do our own direct actions as well?
kurious
Lots of room for everyone
05.02.2004 12:28
for instance, you might want to tell people about the lovely Aldermaston 2004 march this Easter, 4 days on the road from the centre of power in Whitehall to the very place where nuclear weapons, the real WMD, are constructed. There's plans to develop a new generation of weapons there, now's the chance to highlight this hypocrisy and put this back on the national agenda ...
lots of info on
see you there
Aldermaston 2004
e-mail:
info@aldermaston2004.net
Homepage:
http://www.aldermaston2004.net
no its about power - stupid!
05.02.2004 12:49
Politcal power is not at the air bases they are a symptom of the power from central government - go protest at the bases if you want but I remember the camps in the 80's and ultimately it is a strategy that will fail, because it isn't where the main focus is
Feb 15 and the bush demo have scared the living daylights out of our ruling class and now is the time to pile on the pressure - lets have thousands (millions) marching and protesting not just in the UK but around the world on M20 shutting down the entire centre of London and we will bring the downfall of Blair and the rest of the shabby lot a whole lot closer.
noel
What's the point in shutting down the city?
05.02.2004 16:56
So is there really any point in doing something that will have practically zero effect on the world in the long term?
Tom
march to nowhere
05.02.2004 17:21
As one of the oppositionists to the march 20th event me and others are coming to the conclusion that we need to hit the imperialists interests economicly - through getting petrol stations and army recruitment centres. In sheffield there will be a crunch time hopefully i will be able to communicate with other members in the StWC and we can discuss what to do next, then at the following meeting i will bring up the march 20th thing again and watch the chaos ensue.
cb
Foolish Delusions - Stupid!
05.02.2004 18:12
This is self-deluding spin, noel. The reality was that Bush's Security were so pleased with how peaceful, passive, & unchallening the Bush Demo was that they were reported to be grinning like 'cheshire cats' as they left.
The Bush Demo was the last straw for many activists who are tired of squandering resources, time and money on mobilising for London Demos. But this isn't an issue for London, or the 'steering committee', as they don't have to mobilise in any exhaustive fashion, they just have to wait for us to turn up & then steal the sweat of our efforts.
This isn't to say that all London Demos are pointless, far from it. On 15th February 2003 Bristol mobilised some 65 coaches for London, which we believe made us in terms of proportional population size the largest show in the country (with the exception of a few very small towns who proportionately mobilised even more people).
As for March 22nd 2003, when 3 National Demos were held (Menwith Hill, Fairford, London), Bristol mobilised for both Fairford & London, as well as a Demo in Bristol. Given the choice twice as many people opted for Fairford over London in Bristol. This also happens to undermine the nearly 3 year old, & entirely worn out, argument that people are not ready for more direct forms of action. People *are* ready for more Direct Action.
But my main point on this one is that the steering committee have acted in entirely unprofessional manner. The call for a National Day of Action has been out for about a month, & mobilisations for demos across the country are already underway. It is entirely disrespectful for the 'steering committee' to expect people to now shelve these plans, or to now mobilise for both when they *do not* themselves have to make the effort.
James Venables
(In A Personal Role)
Bristol-Stop-The-War Communications
James Venables
a
05.02.2004 18:25
b
20 March
06.02.2004 12:59
I remember after the National Demonstration just before Feb. 15 we had exactly the same argument. One anarchist argued that National Demonstrations were a waste of time and that direct action by a handful of activists got more media attention. Subsequently 2 million people marched through London.
James Venables, though more people may have gone to Fairford from Brisol on March 22, Countrywide 500,000 went to London and 5000 went to Fairford.
People talk of Direct Action, but let's be serious at Fairford a handful of activists playacted at taking on the police, did some minor damage to a fence - that's all.
The kind of direct action we need was pioneered by walking-out school students, by roadblockades (not involving 6 people, but rather hundreds of people).
The Fairford demonstration was just as symbolic as a march in London, only it involved far fewer people.
Demonstrations at airbases also take place out in the sticks, we should hold our demonstrations in our towns, cities and communities where we are visible.
The only people who see these airbase demo's are activists.
A march through Cardiff City Centre on a Saturday is seen by a whole cross-section of the population.
The March 22 demonstration was seen across the Middle East and gave hope to activists in Tahrir Square in Cairo who fought the police chanting "Hyde Park"(in reference to Feb. 15)
Fairford attracted no media interest outside of the UK and only small coverage in Britain.
FINALLY, If you want to go to Airbases that's fine. But why demonstrate on March 20? Some people may want to go to London and to Airbases. Why pick a date on the same day as a demonstration called by someone else?
Adam from Cardiff
Complete Factual Failure
06.02.2004 14:48
"...let's be serious at Fairford a handful of activists playacted at taking on the police, did some minor damage to a fence - that's all."
Adam, not only are you offensive, but you are entirely wrong and ignorant of the facts. Either you are being emtirely disingenous, or you simply aren't aware.
Despite being delayed for reasons of court bureaucracy, the Iraq War On Trial hearings are still set to test the domestic & international legality of the war, are of international profile and are internationially known and recognised.
As you are part of Cardiff Stop-The-War I will have sent you updates on this information repeatedly, (or other contactas within Cardiff Stop-The-War) but as you have made your naivety & bias on the issue so painfully clear, I imagine your failure to been in the least bit informed can be put down to you, or others deleting these emails without even reading them as a result of seeing Fairford in the title.
Your complete ignorance of the anti-war movement is shocking. I can only say that I hope you are not involved in Cardiff Stop-The-War communications, or any other position where you have a responsibility to inform people of key note and international developments.
IRAQ WAR TRIAL
James Venables
(In A Personal Role)
Bristol-Stop-The-War Communications
James Venables
BRISTOL'S POSITION : 20th MARCH 2004
06.02.2004 15:06
Bristol will be mobilising fully for major demonstrations in both Bristol and London. We believe that this will maximize total turn-out & choice. We will also be holding major actions in Bristol on Friday 19th March 2004, which will be disclosed later.
As a result of this we will also be treating National events held on March 19th as part of these National Actions. At this time this mainly refers to the Block The Base demo at Mewith Hill, which will comprise a Direct Action Blockade, as well as a Demonstration.
BLOCK THE BASE AT MENWITH HILL: 19th March:
James Venables
(Bristol-Stop-The-War Communications)
James Venables
Minor Error
06.02.2004 15:37
James Venables
the revolution shall not be televised
06.02.2004 18:57
"I remember after the National Demonstration just before Feb. 15 we had exactly the same argument. One anarchist argued that National Demonstrations were a waste of time and that direct action by a handful of activists got more media attention. Subsequently 2 million people marched through London."
I accept that but alot more people think that marches from a to b are no longer uselfull and at the end of the day the feb 15th event was one of many london demos and none of the other ones got anywhere near as many people.
"though more people may have gone to Fairford from Brisol on March 22, Countrywide 500,000 went to London and 5000 went to Fairford."
more effort was put into getting people to fairford, the StWC across the country emphasised london over fairford.
"People talk of Direct Action, but let's be serious at Fairford a handful of activists playacted at taking on the police, did some minor damage to a fence - that's all."
The army bases are not the oly form of direct action e.g. in sheffield some people sabotaged a BP petrol station as part of the dayX event.
"The Fairford demonstration was just as symbolic as a march in London, only it involved far fewer people."
direct action does not mean attacking army bases, it can also mean boycott, obstruction and occupation of petrolium facilities or army recruitment centres - in the big cities.
"The only people who see these airbase demo's are activists."
The media dont like to show confrontational marches on TV
"A march through Cardiff City Centre on a Saturday is seen by a whole cross-section of the population."
so what - it does nothing unless it confronts the imperialists and their interests.
"The March 22 demonstration was seen across the Middle East and gave hope to activists in Tahrir Square in Cairo who fought the police chanting "Hyde Park"(in reference to Feb. 15)"
The dayX event contained alot of direct action from blocking roads and if there were a few more experienced activists on them then some multinational corporations and government buildings would have been occupied.
"Fairford attracted no media interest outside of the UK and only small coverage in Britain."
blame that on the TV not the activists
"FINALLY, If you want to go to Airbases that's fine. But why demonstrate on March 20? Some people may want to go to London and to Airbases. Why pick a date on the same day as a demonstration called by someone else?"
The london demo was undemocraticly called for by the steering comitee, when the desicion filtered through to the city wide groups it was the individuals there that objected to the a to b march and proposed seperate action. I admit i am not talking about bristol but this is what has happened in my local StWC group.
cb
James Venables Yawn Yawn
07.02.2004 09:23
activist
Bitchy and Censorious
07.02.2004 12:56
If we had a fully fair and open debate, a steering committee who didn't actively engage in censorship, and Stop The War groups around the country who paid there supporters the service of providing balanced publicity for and transport to Direct Action, and DA related events, then the balance of turnout might be very different. As it stands ill informed bullies and bitches stand in the way.
amy
Reply to James Venables
07.02.2004 17:59
Secondly, you are going to put the government on trial? big deal! You have seen from the Hutton Report that the establishment can't be relied upon to take on the establishment. Like most direct action people who describe themselves as anarchists when push comes to shove you are a left-liberal (and you probably read that rag, "The Guardian" too.
I have no problems with small direct action often stunts do attract notice, I do have a problem with those who think the actions of a handful of activists is more important than demonstrations of thousands of ordinary people.
Adam from Cardiff
Venables again!
07.02.2004 18:02
However, if a national demonstration has been called then I think we should should support it as it would be divisive to be holding several different demonstrations all on one day.
The Steering Committee apparently called a national demonstration due to a large amount of communications from local groups calling for one.
Adam from Cardiff
Off The Page
07.02.2004 20:55
But I'm glad you agree with me in principle, so considering that the National Day of action was called before the steering committe, and Bristol called a Bristol demo in light of that, you should also consider supporting us in practice. Bristol-Stop-The-War have now collectively reached it's decision on a 'full spectrum' mobilisation for 20th March. I would suggest you pull your finger out and do the same.
Also, the steering committe never consults with local groups on issues such as National Demonstrations, and is a law unto itself with little respect for the regions. It is as a result of this that many groups around the country are vocally calling for a much greater level of transperency from the steering committe. Such as in the form of the proposed motion for conference from Hackney Stop-The-War. (See Below).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hackney STW resolution:
On Democracy and Diversity in the Stop The War Coalition
Hackney Stop the War Coalition Resolution for national STWC Conference (28 Feb.)
The resolution below on democracy and communications within the STWC was
passed by the Hackney Stop the War Coalition on Monday, 2 February.
The decsion was taken at a well-attended meeting and was all but unanimous. The sole opposition came from an SWP full-timer.
---------------------------------------
Resolution From Hackney Stop The War Coalition To STWC Conference
The Stop the War Coalition (STWC) resolves to implement the following measures, in order to increase democracy and diversity in our movement:
1. The names and contact details of each member of the STWC Steering Committee, together with the name of the organisation they represent (if they are elected in a representative capacity), will be available on the STWC website;
2. The dates of Steering Committee meetings will be posted on the STWC website at least fourteen days in advance, so that STWC members canattend as observers if they so wish;
3. Similarly, the Steering Committee's agenda will be posted on the STWC website at least fourteen days in advance of the meetings so that local groups can send in any comments to inform the Steering Committee's decision-making;
4. The minutes of Steering Committee meetings will be posted on the website within seven days of the meeting taking place;
5. The resolutions passed at this conference will also be posted on the website.
James Venables
Let's do both - and remember we are all on same side ;o)
11.02.2004 13:42
I think the national demonstartion is a good idea, that will get international news coverage. Remember Al Jazeera will cover the events in London, that will be avidly watched in Iraq, palestine and across the MIddle east to see if the British public support the occupation or not. They will also be watched in Washington and Whitehall.
The recently (last couple of years) released transcripts of the Whitehouse conflabs during the Cuban Missile crisis in 1963 show that the Kennedy administartion did discuss and take into account the size of the CND marches in London, and recknoned that the Tory governement of the day would not support the USA in a preemptive nuclear war becasue of the scale of British dissent.
The size of the demos last year, including the bush protests in Nov, have left the govt in deep shit. The whole world saw, the whole world understood, which is why no-one believes Hutton, and no-one will believe Butler.
For those of us in smaller towns like Swindon it is harder to organise effective protests locally, so the London march is actually better for us in purely practical terms. We will get more confidence out of being part of something bigger, and that will feed into our regular programme of local activities.
Generally I would make an appeal for some moderation in language. We are all on the same side, we all want peace, and we all opppose Bush, Blair and the military machine. So trading terms like stupid and ill-informed doesn't help at all. After all we need to give people space to change their minds, or perhaps take a different view next time a similar issue comes up, and that is harder if we stoke up personal animosities.
I am sure James is a very nce man, and I know he has done a lot of good work for peace, but he does become a bit confrontational on the keyboard!
:o)
Andy Newman
e-mail:
Swindon@stopwar.org.uk
Homepage:
http://freespace.virgin.net/swindon.stopwar/index.htm
Fairford news archive
11.02.2004 13:53
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