The French government and the Hijab
Simon | 09.03.2004 12:31 | Education | Social Struggles | Sheffield
Tuesday 9th 7.30pm at the Rutland Arms (Brown street)
Come and debate the ideas...
Simon
e-mail:
Dante_Sh88@yahoo.com
Homepage:
http://www.fifthinternational.org.uk
Comments
Hide the following 20 comments
What about.....
09.03.2004 13:06
Or are you saying it's just hajibs they're banning?
Afinkawan
what about
09.03.2004 13:56
djome
dont shoot yourself in the foot
09.03.2004 16:16
destroyer of culture
not the state
09.03.2004 17:16
the ban will only encourage anti-muslim feelings.do you honestly believe that practising muslim women want this ban. in the anti-movement we have worked extremely effectively with the muslim community.the most militant, articulate people were usually muslim women wearing headscrafes.the left in france have shot themselves in the foot by supporting this divisive ban.
there are going to be lots of debates around this issue. sure to be one at the ESF!!
red letter
by choice alone
09.03.2004 20:33
quite often she chooses, as is her right, to wear a hajib. for her its a fashion statement, comfortable to wear and affords her anonimity.
what next; we cut the curly locks from the heads of orthodox jews, demand nuns not wear habits?
i hate organised religion (with capitalism and borders/states it completes the trinity of despair, division and want) but this is a step too far.
no body in particular
Hijab
10.03.2004 01:33
The Quran merely recommends that women are dressed modestly, which is generally accepted to refer to covering the breasts, which many Arab women did not do at the time of Mohammed. This is not an issue of translation - there is no mention of women covering their heads being mandatory or desirable.
Yarmulkes and turbans are religious requirements, hijabs and crosses are not, they are merely expressions of faith.
Also, it's indisputable that, while many women wear the hijab out of choice, many others are forced to with the threat of violence.
You can still be a practising, devout Muslima without covering your head, or a Christian without wearing a cross.
Simply, the ban is wrong, but the hijab is a complex symbol. For some Muslim women, it's an ostentatious display of their religious extremism and their contempt non-Muslims and their society. For most, it's a simple expression of faith.
Marco
are you stupid or just insensitive
10.03.2004 17:03
destroyer of culture
dear culture destoryer
10.03.2004 17:14
please send your complaint to the right address.
red letter
er...
11.03.2004 01:29
>i think the old sayings "womens right to choose and no
>interference by the state." fits nicely.
Its not entirely unreasonable to point out that many Muslim women dont, when it comes down to it, have much of a free choice.
They can be are under tremendous pressure to conform.
I realise that i'm stepping beyond simple headscarves here but...
Are you seriously gonna suggest that ALL muslim women wear headscarves/ and or veil for fun.
Are you telling me that the Burkha is a serious chosen fashion item amongst the women of Afghanistan ?
Some women claim that it frees them from the attention of men but I would point out (and i'm sure to be crucified for my honesty here but i've seen it from Albania to Turkey to Iran) that in *some* places in the world, men cant seem to behave themselves around unveiled western women because they are not used to the sight of unveiled women.
Before I get a few "rent an experts" on my back, i'd also point out that nowhere in the Koran (I believe - i'll admit, i'm not an expert)does it actually say that women should be covered up in this manner, simply that they should act with "modesty" - which is an interpretation that can be applied to all major religions.
In many parts of the world, only now are women getting the courage to fight back against the blind dogma applied their religion (ultimately "decreed" by men) - funny how in the west where there isnt the amount of pressure many are suddenly jumping to defend it.
anyway, just my 2cents euro.... Flame away - i'm wearing my flame retardant Burkha.
bubba
France Hijab Ban - Good information page on it
11.03.2004 06:26
observer
Homepage: http://www.inminds.co.uk/french-hijab-ban.html
YES HIJAB IS IN THE QURAN
11.03.2004 06:43
muslim
hijab ban won't set anyone free
11.03.2004 11:40
Let's assume for the sake of argument there are some Muslim women who would rather not wear hijab but are pressured to do so. (Much as other women are pressured to wear make-up and shave their legs, but let's leave that aside for now...) Will this ban help them?
Only if you imagine that the pressure will magically be lifted as all involved suddenly realise the error of their ways owing to wise new law from great + good French state which has been such a friend of Muslims down the years, ho ho.
Surely more likely any woman in that position will continue to face same pressures and will have a choice of being seen to side with state against family/community, or, more likely, quit school and go elsewhere. Result: more exclusion + marginalisation of Muslim women, leaving them fewer choices and freedoms. Is that the aim?
kurious
NO HIJAB IS NOT IN THE QURAN
11.03.2004 14:44
I defy any Muslim on earth to explain to me where in the Quran it specifically states the covering of the HEAD, not the BOSOM, is required.
I am sick of some Muslims with limited knowledge of their own religion disagreeing with the opinion of Muslim scholars and the obvious facts, there in black and white, and clear to anyone prepared to do some checking.
As I said, this is NOT a translation issue, the words are simply NOT THERE. They DO NOT EXIST. The Quran does not mention covering the head, at all.
The Hijab is NOT a religious requirement. It is a symbol of faith, a symbol of cultural 'otherness'. But it is NOT a religious requirement.
Marco
NO HIJAB IS NOT IN THE QURAN
11.03.2004 15:06
I defy any Muslim on earth to explain to me where in the Quran it specifically states the covering of the HEAD, not the BOSOM, is required.
I am sick of some Muslims with limited knowledge of their own religion disagreeing with the opinion of Muslim scholars and the obvious facts, there in black and white, and clear to anyone prepared to do some checking.
As I said, this is NOT a translation issue, the words are simply NOT THERE. They DO NOT EXIST. The Quran does not mention covering the head, at all.
The Hijab is NOT a religious requirement. It is a symbol of faith, a symbol of cultural 'otherness'. But it is NOT a religious requirement.
Marco
Hijab is in Holy Quran
12.03.2004 00:49
In the reference you mention from Surah Nur, the english translated "veil" refers to head covering. In the same way as a reference to say a womans skirt should cover her knees does not mean you take the dress of her body and just cover her knees in the same way here it says the head covering should cover the chest meaning that the head covering should not stop at the head i.e. like a hat covering just the hair, but rather should come down to cover the front - neck/chest area.
I do not know of any Islamic scholar who suggests hijab is not part of Islam, which scholar are you refering to? Yes there are plenty of orientalists but thats another matter.
Please do not preach my religion to me.
muslim
France Hijab Ban - Good information page on it
12.03.2004 00:55
Here it is:
http://www.inminds.co.uk/french-hijab-ban.html
observer
Homepage: http://www.inminds.co.uk/french-hijab-ban.html
Islamphobia - an online resource
19.03.2004 13:42
http://uk.geocities.com/plimfix/headscarf.html
Yakoub
e-mail: plimfix@btopenworld.com
Homepage: http://uk.geocities.com/plimfix/tasneem.html
InstructionsAboutVeil
14.05.2004 22:45
"Ayesha (radhiallaho unha) reported that once her sister, Asma (radhiallaho unha) visited her in finery------while the Prophet (sallallaho alaihi wasallam) was at home. He (sallallaho alaihi wasallam) turned away from her and said, “O Asma, when a woman reaches puberty it is not lawful for her to uncover any part of her body except this.” He (sallallaho alaihi wasallam) then pointed to his face and hand. (Abu Daood)"
The above narration is one of the most commonly presented as proof for leaving the face and hands uncovered but doesnt include leaving the head uncovered.
all believers and non belivers go to this site and judge for yourself if it is essential for a muslim woman to cover up there heads.
http://www.themuslimwoman.com/HerDress/InstructionsAboutVeil.htm
Jhangeer Tariq
e-mail: jhangeertariq@hotmail.com
veiled information
26.05.2004 10:26
PostState
it's only in schools
17.09.2004 06:18
Doss