Don't forget the Palestinians. Let's have a sense of priorities here.

Understood and acknowledged.

But, surely a measure of our humanity is ALSO to do with the way we treat other species as well.

Yes the Palestinians are suffering because they have been betrayed by their own leaders who have failed to stamp out terrorism by militants under their control. The Palestinian authorities have allowed terrorism to flurish under their rule instead of stamping it out. It is these terrorists and the atrocities they commit which are to blame for the Palestinians suffering NOT Israel.

Erm, well actually I think you'll find the article is about Cats, not Palestinians.

What about the cats' leaders too? Where are they in their hour of need? Once again it shows that ordinary cats can't rely on so-called 'leaders' who are probably busy siphoning off funds to buy luxuries (Whiskers, cream, etc) while ordinary cats are suffering at the hands of a totalitarian regime. They need to organise themselves into a non-hierachical autonomous collective, the only structure can guarantee their basic rights. I have already discussed this with my cat but he went to sleep before he gave me his opinion on my suggestion.

A bit of humour at last!

Nothing works better at scaring off fundamentalists (or just plain mentalists) I find.
It confuses them too much!

I like your style.

:-)

My cat is an anarchist! She never does what she's told...

No one wanted street cat cruelty. Bush didn't want street cat cruelty, Blair didn't want street cat cruelty, the soldiers didn't want street cat cruelty! But they knew that the only way to get rid of the tyrannical, murderous street cat cruelty of Saddam Hussein was to go to war, because letting Saddam and his cruel-to-street-cats regime stay in power would have resulted in more death and suffering of cats in the long run! So in this case war was the lesser of two evils and they made the right decision.

The street cats of Iraq have now been liberated and can look forward to democracy and freedom that they would never have enjoyed had Saddam stayed in power. Some things like cat freedom are worth fighting for and defending!

I am getting fed up with the bloody cats round here, they had 1/2 of the sparrows we have been tenderly trying to encourage..... so.....

... I reckon I'm going to round up the mice tell them its a jihad and strap cyanide capsules to their bodies and send them on suicide missions!

If that dont piss everyone off then, boo har

Woof Woof

Fucking Humanist assholes.

It all turns to a joke when the 'inferior' animal races are being attacked, abused and murdered doesn't it'? The same jokes were uttered by the brainwashed German people while the jews were being murdered on mass by the nazis. It always helps to try and laugh away the guilt and the shame of your race.

These 'humanist only' bastards that post on this news wire aren't worth the sh*t that comes out of their mouths.

Wake up DickHeads - Life is Life

We're taking the piss out of the trolls who habitually post the same old shite to every single article on the newswire , like mister "solo" here (who also posts as "Rockwell", etc). Not taking the piss out of the article, and no offense intended to Animal Rights.

...seeing as all it takes to become one is disagree with someone else's opinion or display any sort of sense of humour about anything.

Being a bit jokey about a few cats DOES NOT EQUATE with the holocaust, a 6 year war that engulfed most of the planet and the deaths of millions of people you fucking moron.

"life is life". Do me a favour you deluded muppet. What you mean is cute fluffy life is life. Or do you not use soap or bleach? Have you ever turned yourself into the police for accidentally stepping on an ant? Presumably you're a strict vegan and no insects have ever been killed to produce the vegetables you eat? No mice, spiders or anything else living was killed when your food was harvested? Twat.

It's fair enough that the original poster cares about the street cats. It's also fair enough that people say the problems in Palestine are a bit more relevant and pressing to them. The fact is that humans can manage to care about more than one thing at a time otherwise nobody would care about the Palestinians as they would be exclusively worrying about the destruction of the rain forests or pollution or global warming or something likely to affect the entire human race, not just one part of it.

I know that people with no sense of humour often get incensed at other people having one (jealousy) and people with no reasoning faculties get seriously wound up by anyone who can actually argue their point of view logically and rationally (inferiority complex) but I'm truly surprised by the number of dickheads who seem perfectly willing to show everyone what an unoriginal, unthinking idiot they are by immediately labelling everyone else a nazi.

I would've though it wasn't ''human liberation only'', more a case of human liberation FIRST. Given that capitalism causes the level of animal suffering.

Mind you i'm not particularly down with the single issue assholes who post ''victory to the intifada' style messages everywhere either. Israel is a country with a large population, not just a military junta. This single issue politics is often just a thin veil for anti-semitism.

And its true the palestnian p[eople will never be free unless the palestinian bourgeoisie and the arab ruling classes are remobved from power.
No borders no nations

peace out

ps My cats a situationist, he just sits there licking his ass all day. He says its a creative act necessary for the liberation of the proletariat :)

I am sick of hearing people say stuff like

What you mean is cute fluffy life is life. Or do you not use soap or bleach? Have you ever turned yourself into the police for accidentally stepping on an ant? Presumably you're a strict vegan and no insects have ever been killed to produce the vegetables you eat? No mice, spiders or anything else living was killed when your food was harvested? Twat.

This is the sort of reaction a moron would have.

I am a Vegan - I don't use products tested on animals, wear animal products or eat animal products.

The amount of suffering towards animals on earth is far far greater than the holocaust - it has been going on now for 100 years or more. The sick and twisted way's which we kill animals and use them for our bidding must stop.

Obviously Afinkawan has never looked at any information regarding animal cruelty - are you one of the people who when offered a leaflet comes over and says 'You wouldn't be alive it weren't for animal testing'?

However, i do agree with the comment regarding the over use of 'Nazi'. Instead, i would label people as ignorant and/or selfish when it comes to the suffering of animals.

And if you disagree with the comparison to the Holocaust - just think about this, (these facts are sourced from the US Department of Agriculture) - over 20 Billion animals were slaughtered worldwide in 1998 for our pleasure. The original site has now been taken off the web but the figures are stored at:  http://users.erols.com/epastore/veg/kills.html

For information about the processes used to get you your meat go to:  http://www.whyveg.co.uk.

What are my incisor teeth for????

I know I dont HAVE to use animal products, but we are after all part of the big cycle of life, prehaps changing one little bit at a time is OK, and I respect your views for that, but cat people and their mangy little bird killing bastards piss me off. Would you take offence if I humanely killed cat and ate that instead, I'm not fussed but I try not to eat intensively reared meat.


Woof

"What are my incisor teeth for????"

For an answer to this, and answers to other questions commonly asked of those who believe that we should not mistreat animals, see  http://www.moralvegetarianism.co.uk/argumentsagainst.htm

If you look at this page first then you will not have to annoy people on indymedia by asking the same questions or making the same comments over and over again until animal rights activists go insane/ realise that they spend all of their time answering the same
ignorant questions and have no time left to take action for animal rights.

To read an article that explains why many animal rights activists think that some animal's live are just as important as human's lives, see  http://www.petersingerlinks.com/animals.htm

"This is the sort of reaction a moron would have."

No actually, this is the reaction of someone with a near genius level IQ. I have no problem with people who realise that animals are going to die whatever we do. It's unavoidable, even harvesting crops will lead to the deaths of plenty of creatures. I object to reactionary idiots who blatantly haven't thought it any further than "oh no! something fluffy and cute is dead!" Most people aren't that stupid. Even if we could manage not to kill anything ourselves we wouldn't be able to stop the animals killing each other. Everything living on this planet is part of a food chain and is lunch for something else. It's not morally or ethically wrong, it's just life.

I don't however agree with inhuman treatment of animals for the profit of people and for people to have far more food than they need cheaper than they need to get it.

"I am a Vegan - I don't use products tested on animals, wear animal products or eat animal products."

I'm not. I eat meat. I avoid products tested on animals and go with organic/free range/fair trade/ recycled etc. where possible because I think we should be having as little impact on the ecosphere as possible. I wouldn't wear real fur, anything made of ivory etc. but am happy to wear leather as it hard wearing, lasts for years and comes from animals that are used for food anyway, not just farmed for one part of their body. It doesn't mean I'm an evil Nazi, it just means I'm part of the food chain. Full respect to you for your beliefs but what you do also has an impact - animals still get displaced and islandisation still occurs where land is used for crops.

"The sick and twisted way's which we kill animals and use them for our bidding must stop."

Agreed. We should use them humanely.

"Obviously Afinkawan has never looked at any information regarding animal cruelty - are you one of the people who when offered a leaflet comes over and says 'You wouldn't be alive it weren't for animal testing'?"

Quite clearly incorrect. I am a scientist. I have studied ethics of science and plenty of similar subjects. I work for pharmaceutical companies. I left one that used animal testing and turned down several others jobs for companies I thought of as not being ethical enough. Most people would still be alive if it weren't for animal testing. Plenty wouldn't be though. It is possible to perform animal testing humanely and clinical trials should switch to human trials as soon as is possible. A lot more research should also go into ways of improving the testing so there is less need for animals to be used.

"However, i do agree with the comment regarding the over use of 'Nazi'. Instead, i would label people as ignorant and/or selfish when it comes to the suffering of animals."

Generally, yes. And that's what needs to change. Humans need to live more in harmony with the ecosphere. Ignorant and selfish doesn't necessarily equal nazi, evil or stupid though. People need to be educated and attitudes changed. How likely would your attitude be to change over something if you were insulted? Much better to use debate and argument and reason. And for that you need people to understand what they're arguing about not just reacting without reasoning.

Mind you, some people deserve to be insulted.

"And if you disagree with the comparison to the Holocaust...."

I still disagree with the comparison to the holocaust. Uncaring destruction of animal habitats for quick profit and needlessly unpleasant treatment of animals also for quick profit or through laziness etc. is not the same as attempting to systematically wipe out an entire race/religion. Humans are capable of a lot worse than any other animal.

Eating things is natural, genocide isn't.

Don't mistake me for a stupid, reactionary, unthinking idiot just because I have a different opinion. I don't denigrate anybody's opinion in general, just people who have immediate, knee jerk reactions to things without understanding their own thoughts and feelings on the subject or even trying to understand the other person's point of view.

Virtually nothing is black and white, there are grey areas everywhere and anybody who doesn't realise that needs to make more use of the intelligence we as humans have.

Thanks for understanding the point of the article people.

As for 'Incisor Teeth', well, you're a Muppet!

I too (like every other Human Being on the planet) have incisors, but, I don't see this as an excuse to justify cruelty to other species.

Unfortunately, while you perpetuate such ignorance, and until such time as you see fit to accept other creatures as your equal, rather than as a 'resource' to be exploited we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of our ancesters.

There is a holocaust (both to our own and other species) happening every day, and it's done in the name of profit and the (so-called) 'Free Market'.

Other species are just as much slaves of this system as we are.
The key difference is that other species don't have the luxury of being able to do something about changing it.

Much as I enjoy a laugh and a joke, you can take a thing too far.

Wake Up!

"even harvesting crops will lead to the deaths of plenty of creatures."

Yes, but many less animals will die this way, and their deaths will be unintentional. Plenty of people die on the roads every year, this does not mean it's all right to run millions of them down on purpose.

"Everything living on this planet is part of a food chain and is lunch for something else. It's not morally or ethically wrong, it's just life."
So would farming humans for food be okay? It's okay if you're part of the food chain, right? The holocaust would have been acceptable if the Nazis had eaten the bodies?

"we wouldn't be able to stop the animals killing each other."
So this means it's okay to kill them cos we like the way they taste? I can't stop humans from killing each other, so it's okay for me to kill millions of them?

"How likely would your attitude be to change over something if you were insulted? Much better to use debate and argument and reason."
Of course. Wonder why you use insults then - "fucking moron", "deluded muppet", "twat" and other such gems.

As for free-range/ organic - most free range and organically farmed animals still have pretty horrific lives too, you know. For instance, free-range chicken farms - take thousands of chickens, cram them into a dark shed full of shit, chop off their beaks so they can't peck each other to death when they go insane, add little doorways to an outside pen that most of the chickens can't get too anyway - voila! Free range eggs. The male chicks can't lay eggs, so grind them up alive or suffocate them in plastic bags, and when their sisters stop laying so many eggs throw them into crates - doesn't matter if you break their bones - take em to the abattoir, shackle them upside down by their legs, drag em through an electrified water bath that will stun some of them, then slit their throats. Very humane. Are we ever going to be able to take animals' interests seriously if we see the simply as food, or a source of profit? Unlikely.

'I am a scientist. I have studied ethics of science and plenty of similar subjects. I work for pharmaceutical companies'.


I had my suspicions about this character 'Afinkawan' a long time ago after reading his previous posts attacking the animal rights movement ... He's just proved those suspicions to be correct.

'I am a scientist. I have studied ethics of science and plenty of similar subjects. I work for pharmaceutical companies'.


I had my suspicions about this character 'Afinkawan' a long time ago after reading his previous posts attacking the animal rights movement ... He's just proved those suspicions to be correct.

Rockwells back!
Wheres Spock?
Hmmmmmmmmmm