where were you ?

Where was this publicised?

21.04.2004 13:03

I for one don't read trade fair magazines, business papers or anything else where events like this are publicised, I only hear about them through people posting it on indymedia, flyers, posters etc. Where was it publicised that other activists could have seen it?

???

It was posted on IM

21.04.2004 13:17

It was posted on Indy Media and some Urban 75 sites over the last week. We are going tomorrow, there is only three of us I hope others will be there.

I know that some people were put off because of all the concerns over the DSEI.ORG web site turning out to be fake. As this event is linked to the Arms Trade it seems some of the publicity wasn't thought real (at least at my college)

Spike

clarrification

21.04.2004 14:47

I know that some people were put off because of all the concerns over the DSEI.ORG web site turning out to be fake

THE SITE IS NOT A FAKE!

but some postings on indymedia might be
don't believe everything you read in the media !

info

We are not that stupid

21.04.2004 15:26

"The site is not a fake"

Piss off spook (or should that be BAe employee ??) the dsei.org site was shown to be a fake and we now all now the truth.

Now run along and sell some cluster bombs now, there's a good little arms dealer

Spook catcher

Where ?

21.04.2004 16:06

Where is everyone meeting, and when ?

Some Watford people

Find out about dsei at dsei.org

21.04.2004 16:17

A disinformation campaign how flattering- we must be getting on their nerves

www.dsei.org is a bona fide site - it is hosted by www.enrager.net

DSEi action: 30th April, 8:30am onwards.

You are cordially invited to celebrate Mayday with Mr Bob Munton, Chief Executive of Spearhead Exhibitions ltd.

Celebrations kick off at 8:30am on Friday 30th April and will continue throughout the day. Address: Apex Tower New Malden (opposite New Malden station).

Mr Munton is particularly keen to hear your views regarding his role in organising DSEi, Europe's largest arms fair, and of bringing, death, destruction and misery to the world.

Spearhead Exhibitions has recently been brough by Reed Exhibitions. So, from 1pm onwards, the celebrations will move to Reed Exhibitions, Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant, Richmond (opposite Richmond station) for further fun and games.

DISARM DSEi: SHUT DOWN SPEARHEAD
www.dsei.org
BM Box 3679, London WC1N 3XX
07817 652029

mayday@dsei.org

Please contact us for flyers or download from website.

IMC volunteer
mail e-mail: mayler@linuxmail.org

Not again

21.04.2004 16:45

This posting is about support for the ITEC protest not your fucking day out at Spearhead. What is it with you lot, this must be the fifth time I have seen this posting.

I will be at ITEC tomorrow with around 10 others, we are meeting outside the Holiday Inn Excel (that should wind them up !) at 12 noon. The Docklands Light Railway has good links to Excel (Custom House is the station to go for)so why not come and join us for a real day of protest rather than the dsei.org Middle Class Awayday.

Duckman

I'll be there !!!!

21.04.2004 17:05

Well I'm sorry I can't claim to be bringing many people with me but I (and if I can talk her into it my sister) will be there. I saw the Holiday Inn Excel earlier this year, its a real snobby place so if a few of us start milling around outside they'll be wetting themselves !!!

The ITEC show is often overlooked so a big turnout would be great. Maybe some of the dsei.org people would care to support us rather than posting yet another advert for their day ? (assuming its for real)

Aidan

too far away

21.04.2004 17:40

The problem that the stop dsei 2005 campaign faces is that the next event is too far in the future (2005 !) away. We need action now, Lets get into the faces of these arms dealers tomorrow in London not messing around picketing some exhibition company.

For those not wanting to meet at Excel some of us will be joining up at Waterloo station around 10am. We'll be by the WH Smith glass cube if you want to meet us there. we'll be the noisy ones !!!!!

Freedom from Arms

Angelo

DSEi slurs getting boring

21.04.2004 17:40

Most people are getting really fed up with these boring slurs against DISARM DSEi. DSEi.org is real. DISARM DSEi is real and obviously effective given the amount of time spent trying to discredit us.

The ITEC protests were very badly advertised. To my knowledge there was only one post advertising the action on IMC and the title of the post was pretty ambigious. DISARM and ELAFF had a presnce last year which was also small as part of a week of actions against the arms trade.

ITEC is a yearly defence training exhibition. See www.itec.co.uk for more information.

It is also worth noting that defence conferences take place almost on a weekly basis in London. A good example of these can be found at www.smi-online.co.uk.

DISARM DSEi
mail e-mail: disarm@dsei.org
Homepage: http://www.dsei.org

Spook catcher BEWARE

21.04.2004 19:20

We know you are not what you pretend to be.
Really, forget spamming indy with this disinfo campaign, it's really not a good idea.

all evil trolls drown under the bridge in the end

More fighting

21.04.2004 21:21

Has everyone who contributed to this series of posts realised the damage they are doing ?

Here we have an activist making a fuss (and with good reason) about lack of support for an anti Arms Trade protest. Within no more than one or two contributions we have accusations of all sorts of things when in fact the question should have been,

"This looks like a worthy cause, what can we do to help?". The dsei org website may well represent a group we can support or it might be a set up who knows ? That is not the point.

We need to avoid this sort of distraction and focus on helping those at ITEC this week seeking to mount a protest.
DSEI is a major event in the Arms Trade and come 2005 we will be there to protest but ITEC is happening NOW, THIS WEEK.

Please put aside petty arguments and come support the effort to put this people out of business. For those who wish to beleive that a campaign is being waged against them, well OK but I think it frankly very unlikely. Indy Media is simply a website, the likes of Spearhead, BAE, etc simply don't care about it

DSEI will wait ITEC will not.

Yours in Love and Peace

Jane

A voice of reason

21.04.2004 21:43

Well said !

I am sick of the infighting on Indy, too many groups think that there cause is the only one worth supporting to the exclusion of all others. I would like to know who elected the organisers of the DSEI group to their positions, who decided that only they could decide where and when we mount a protest. I march, I protest, I stand up when I decide not when others tell me.

I wish I could afford to be with you in London tomorrow.

Best wishes to all at Excel, I look forward to the pictures

With you in spirit

Bay

Some Clarifications

22.04.2004 10:16

This is a individual response from someone very invovled in DISARM DSEi. Hopefully it can provide some clarity to what is becoming a very stupid situation.

1. There has never been any suggestion that we do not support the protests at ITEC. We didn't organise anything, but fully support people taking whatever action they feel appropriate in their fight against the arms trade (something which was decided at a national meeting).

2. There is no infighting taking place. DISARM DSEi is still a coalition of over 60 different organisations and has always tried to be representative of different areas of the protest movement - which is one of the reasons we have supported everything from petitions to vigils to direct action.

3. London DISARM DSEi decided at an open meeting to continue the fight against Spearhead Exhibitions as our strategy and because we believe that it is important that protests do not only take place about DSEi for one month every two years.

4. However we are also organising for other events - BAE AGM and Farnborough Airshow at present.

5. DSEi may not be until 2005, but it is worth bearing in mind that last year's protests took nearly eighteen months to organise. The more people willing to get involved now, the better!!! We hold regular meetings and people are welcome to join us. Please email for more details.

Emily
mail e-mail: disarm@dsei.org
Homepage: http://www.dsei.org

why 18 months?

22.04.2004 11:47

How come it took so long? Surely it isn't that difficult to decide on a date, time place, and ask people to come along with you? OK some people won't be able to go but, hey they can do their own thing some other time.

A large demo every 18 months is not an effective campaign, whereas small - medium demos every 2 weeks will piss them off a hell of a lot more.

fredrico
mail e-mail: musteatvegan@yahoo.co.uk

Thanks Emily

22.04.2004 13:09

Emily,

Firstly thanks for posting the comments. The whole issue was discussed last night by a group of us here in Oxford and it seems there is a feeling that the dsei.org organisation has become a little detached from the grass roots protest movement. There is widespread suspicion as to who are the people behind it and their motives. It may well be that there is not a problem but it was felt that a more open structure would set minds at rest.

If it is helpful we are happy to host a meeting to discuss how we can move forward and with a view to electing a new organisation that will have more of a raport with the street.

We decided not to post an e-mail address at present as this could be seen as having the same secrecy problem that dsei.org has therefore we propose that Indymedia be used, in the short term, as an open forum leading to a new website that we are all sure is secure.

Yours in Peace and Love

Bay

In light of the recent disinformation campaign on indymedia

22.04.2004 17:15

"Firstly thanks for posting the comments. The whole issue was discussed last night by a group of us here in Oxford"

A group who is not prepared to identify themselves?

"and it seems there is a feeling that the dsei.org organisation has become a little detached from the grass roots protest movement."

I dont think that that is a perception that is widely shared

"There is widespread suspicion as to who are the people behind it and their motives."

Not true as far as I know

"It may well be that there is not a problem but it was felt that a more open structure would set minds at rest."

It may also make it easier to disrupt the working of the group

"If it is helpful we are happy to host a meeting to discuss how we can move forward and with a view to electing a new organisation that will have more of a raport with the street."

If you are suspicious of the group why not just set up a parallel structure and organise independent anti dsei protests?- this would make it harder to disrupt the working of both groups.

We decided not to post an e-mail address at present as this could be seen as having the same secrecy problem that dsei.org has .

Wy not post a e-mail as well? - in fact i'll send a e-mail myself so they can contact you-except they can't because they dont know who you are.....

"therefore we propose that Indymedia be used, in the short term, as an open forum leading to a new website that we are all sure is secure"

Indymedia is a open newsharing platorm and not the best structure for organising things- It is vey open to disruption and disinformation, as the recent anti-dsei disinfomation campaign has shown.

call me paranoid - but

Excuse us !

22.04.2004 19:27

Well excuse yes for trying to help !!!

OK sod you then, we'll continue with our own efforts and you can go to hell

Bay

This is all so funny!!!!

23.04.2004 10:42

Look people, this is all pretty laughable.

Oxford possee - if you want to help then please get in touch with the dsei.org website and meet up with people. Or hold public meetings in your area to campaign against the arms trade locally etc etc

This kind of disruptive tactics is nothing new. So there are some people or person who are carrying out a misinfo campaign around dsei on indymedia. It's an interesting development, the first to my knowledge like this, but as i say, hardly a new tactic.

Less panic please, less paranoia, more local organising, more just getting on with it.

Oxford crew, if you are serious about wanting to help the anti-dsei campaign then you should not be put off by one post on indymedia which refutes what you say, really. Also look, indymedia should not be used as an organising forum as you suggest, it's inappropriate, and actualy not well suited to it.

As has been said enrager.net is secure - look at all the other sites hosted there, simple.
If you have doubts then i suggest you get in touch with dsei.org and attend the next meeting to discuss your views (if you're really paranoid then mail them from a new email address in a cyber cafe, but if you really are _that_ paranoid... I'd suggest you're not really suited to the open kind of organising that the anti dsei campaigns have been built on).

Peace!

pete

maybe it is paranoia - sorry

23.04.2004 12:01

Maybee jumped to conclusions- just a little bit suspicious that's all
PS I'm not involved in the anti dsei protests meslf so dont take my comments as a reflection on them.
As pete says- get in touch with them via the www.dsei.org website which is trusted and secure

call me paranoid

UK Indymedia

Comments

Where was this publicised?

It was posted on IM

clarrification

We are not that stupid

Where ?

Find out about dsei at dsei.org

Not again

I'll be there !!!!

too far away

DSEi slurs getting boring

Spook catcher BEWARE

More fighting

A voice of reason

Some Clarifications

why 18 months?

Thanks Emily

In light of the recent disinformation campaign on indymedia

Excuse us !

This is all so funny!!!!

maybe it is paranoia - sorry

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