"These bombers are not fighting for a better Iraq, they are not fighting to improve the lives of ordinary people"

Do you mean the bombers Bush and Blair? or are bombs dropped from the air just fine and dandy?

You may have missed the little fact that over 700 people were killed by the US marines in falluja this week, where is the moral outrage about that?

No Sonic that's not the point. Jake is right to make clear how many people both here and through other outlets have portrayed these people as some sort of group fighting the US and UK occupation but as the Basra bombings make clear these are not a "heroic Iraqi resistance".

Apologies are due.

Please post links to back up your report, or else I shall ask indymedia to hide this post as non-news/rant.

or don't you have time to educate, only time to spread disinformation, lies, and unfounded rumours.

That is what MI5 do best,

isn't it?

There are clearly two distinct groups at work in Iraq: The Sunni/Shia 'nationalist' resistance and terror groups targeting civilians, possibly al-qaeda if that term means anything.

Robert Fisk subscribes to this basic thesis. According to journalist Dahr Jamail (do a search) Iraqis (rightly or wrongly) blame the CIA for the car bomb attacks, presumably remembering Lebanon.

Just because some individuals carry out atrocities autonomously does not discredit the concept of resistance. Otherwise the very existance of Hamas would justify oppressing Palestinians, or the existance of the National Front would justify bombing london.

"Those on IndyMedia who have in the past defended these child murdering scum should now stand up and admit their error. "

Why not start with you Jake Duncan? You support child murdering scum, don't you?

How do you know who is behind these bombings?

could it be the neo-liberal right wing british and american secret services? I would not it passed them especially in their election years.


I don't know and neither do you.

Yes that is the point we do not know!!, the secret security services have been known and shown in war theatres to carry out “false flag” operations in order to construct very plausible psychological terror operations that diminishes the populations support for resistance forces. We are very much consumers of this manipulated, commercial media product all we can be sure of is that someone is making a killing.

I also note currently in Iraq there are 20,000 private militia personal or “ civilian contractors” as the Pentagon prefers. These mercenaries employed by coalition forces are known to conduct operations of strategic financial importance for their clients, unfortunately this sometimes includes ‘taking out’ other private outfits for competitive advantage. Nothing personal its just business you understand.

No of course you won't be apologising what was I thinking ?

The comments on here where what I feared but hoped would not see. All the things I have said are easily checked, make the effort. Find out what is really happening in Iraq away from your cosy Left wing view where Capitalism and Globalisation cause every problem.

The people of Iraq need our help, not your hatred of the tools that have bought them freedom from a sadistic ruler. Those of us working for Iraq and its people will continue to repair power plants, fix drains, set up a police force and help them to use their talents, their rescources and their new freedom to build a new free Iraq.

What will your contribution be, another empty demo, another wasted rant at your latest meeting of other journeymen.

People like you are what Iraq and the developing world do not need.

You still owe the people of Basra an apology - have the guts to give it.

"Those on IndyMedia who have in the past defended these child
murdering scum should now stand up and admit their error."

Some examples of people who did this would be good. I know of
no anarchist, for example, who defended the "Iraqi Resistance".
They did, however, oppose the child murdering scum who invaded
Iraq and killed over 10,000 civilians (who knows how many
hundreds in the last month). Just as they opposed Saddam --
unlike, say, the US and Uk states which happily supported and
armed him in the 1980s. Just as they oppose the current
occupation and its killing of civilians (including children)
in Fallajah.

So will our poster admit his error in defending the imperialist
invasion and occupation of Iraq and the civilian deaths it caused?
Or do dead civilians only count when "the enemy" kills them?

.... suggest anything about responsibility for the bombing.

I did point out that it is Jake Duncan who seems to support "child murdering scum" and suggest he gets the ball rolling by apologising for the kids murdered by the scum he supports.

He failed to do so.

Typical imperialist - do as I say, not as I do.

it's not in the freedom fighters interest to murder their own folks. I wouldn't put it past the yankkkeeees.
Funny how Al Quaeda or who ever, always seems to do the right thing at the right time. almost as if GW
was pulling the strings.
Poor old jake really taken in by it all is it really possible to be that gullible and wade in bad mouthing IMC.
Maybe you should stick to the corporate press , the daily mail tells it like it is !!!
Apart from seriously taking the piss the real objective is Iran and that means the situations got to get worse,
hence the car bombs and other serious attacks against civilians ..

We all know that ANY extremists who use violence against innocent civilians are scum, Osama, George and Tony included.

I think that the loose but well organised operation that is Al Qaeda is behind the Basra bombs, clever though.
1. The initial violence after the attack was against the British troops, who tried to help casualties, not unexpected - if we didnt invade then this would not have happened, remember that Osama et al were not welcome in Iraq before the invasion.

2.The Madrid bombs precipitated the withdrawl of Spanish troops, is Al Qaeda not dropping a little hint here, to the British public and the armed forces, get out or it may be you next?

The more anarchy and unrest that can be stirred up in Iraq then the more Al Qaeda will be able to operate, possibly with the assistance of local Iraqis keen to get the occupiers out.

I hate the killings, as a result of all parties involved, it should never have happened and must end.

UN in US out (and that includes bloody Haliburton and the rest of the parasites, dont forget to get down to the Iraqi 'procurement'?! conference:  http://www.theirpayday.org/

Jake is right, there are people posting comments who have not taken the time to find out the facts about those fighting in Iraq. Our information shows an enourmous number of Iranian soldiers have been sent in plain clothes to key parts of Iraq.

The establishment of a hard line Islamic state is their aim, we must fight this.

For info on the real situation check our web site below

www.socialist-womens-action-group.org.uk

All the Iraqis I know are totally aware of Bush and Co.’s attempt to highjack our country and steel our resources and turn the Iraq into a US base to attack other countries in the region. The people who carried out this attack are child murdering scum – just like Bush and just like Blair. If they continue to try to install a puppet government and write the laws of Iraq they will course more child murdering scumbag acts that I will hold them responsible for. I suspect that Jake Duncanson knows very little about Iraq and the Iraqi people. I think he wants to carry on believing his Humanitarian intervention bullshit that he feels comfortable with. Let him know one thing. The Iraqi people will never give up their sovereignty to anyone least of all the US and UK that have been spending the last 20 years killing the Iraqi people through their last puppet government (Sadam and Co.) and directly through bombing and sanctions.
FREE IRAQ FREE IRAQ FREE IRAQ

Haidar nobody beleives you're an Iraqi. Stop lying

Jake has done the unthinkable on IM, told the sheep people what they don't want to hear. Sorry Jake but that's not allowed. If you want to post to IM you have to stick to a rigid script otherwise the lefty sheep start worrying because it doesn't fit in with their rigid views and prejudices.

Try to re-write your article so it critises Israel that's always a good start.

Suggest Jake has a look at this website..

 http://www.wildfirejo.org.uk/feature/display/115/index.php

...eyewitness reports to get an idea of what is happening.

It is obvious that there is both a strong Iraqi resistance movement AND a (less acknowledged) large MINORITY broadly in favour of 'waiting it out'. There seems to be very little in the way of genuine enthusiasm or even mild support for the way in which the new imperial invaders have gone about 'their' task - same as the old imperial invaders, and the people of Iraq have long memories (spoken history takes a very important place in the culture of the region).

There is no reason deny the possiblity of 'foreign' insurgents - from Afghanistan to Iran - in the same way there is no reason to deny the possibility of 'foreign' agents - from US to Israel.

The only measure of any act should be 'means motive and method'. Emoting sentiments of 'I told you so' and 'no you're wrong because you hate us/them/me' gets you no where nearer understanding the events being played out in the ME and the players involved.

The facts, tedious as they are, involve a certain logic and pattern impossible to ignore - unless ones pride, income or political kudos depends on it - and only too familiar, give or take a technology or two and the requisit resources, to any who have studied the history of the crusades onwards.

Imperial intervention is always acompanied by the suffering of the local population who get squeezed inbetween a heartless machine with no recognician of the local 'way' and a ruthless resistance, who's 'way' is always in stark contrast to that predicted.

Under international law - and as if that ment something (perhaps once a dream it was) - strictly speaking the forces of the UK and US have acted illegally and have committed many grave war crimes. Also, strictly speaking, the forces of the insugents have committed war crimes as well - just far less of them, and, debatably, only on their own soil.

Whatever the nascent feeling for the suffering - and eventual relief of such - of the Iraqi people that those who did not oppose the war had (and those that did not support the war would do better to believe that such, nieve and earnest sentiments were genuine) should have shifted by now, in those who are honest with themselves, to bloody outrage at both the arrogance and incompetence of the regiem change game.

The only viable alternative to the bloodbath - followed by the seizure of power by those ruthless enough to hold on to it - is the immediate withdrawal of frontline troops, the recall of all troops and the turning over of executive power to a temporary UN sanctioned and selected task force. Further, that The US and the UK foot the bill - as well as coming clean with their outstanding debts.

It goes without saying that this should be augmented with the vigerous and comprehensive prosecution of those responsible for the mess and/or eger to profit from it (one thinks of halliburton et al).

did you serve in Basra?
if so are you a young soldier ?