Skip to content or view mobile version

Home | Mobile | Editorial | Mission | Privacy | About | Contact | Help | Security | Support

A network of individuals, independent and alternative media activists and organisations, offering grassroots, non-corporate, non-commercial coverage of important social and political issues.

Where's Feminism? Everywhere and Nowhere (Indypendent)

Jed Brandt, from the NYC Indypendent | 27.04.2004 22:08 | Analysis | Gender | Social Struggles

This world really needs a new feminism, and the editors and contributors are right on to ground feminism in social movements dealing with real life and not just the simulacra of representational politics. But saying that all issues are women’s issues because women are involved or are leaders misses the point.

Alternately ignored, mocked and vilified, feminism as an idea hasn’t had it any easier than women themselves. At its root, feminism is revolutionary in its demand. For women to live as full people would require a complete overturning of the how we work, negotiate family life and conceive of ourselves as people.

Men and women both pay lip service to equality, but even that possibility seems in danger of being extinguished. Abortion is unavailable to many and in real danger of being lost. Women get paid less for worse jobs and get beaten more by their lovers than by their enemies. So hey, where are the feminists?

Vivian Labaton and Dawn Lundy Martin answer by saying: they’re all over. They just stopped advertising it.

The anthology begins with the story of Margaret Walker, a student activist at Yale in the early 1990s. Walker shares her hopes and frustrations navigating fragmented cultural politics, seeking some synthesis to bring it all together. In Walker’s view, a once great freedom dream seemed to be struggling for air under the weight of a thousand “issues.”

Feminism was more a subculture than a movement, wrapped up in identity politics and lacking any intention of bringing a new world. The Yale Women’s Center wasn’t a center for women, it was for Feminists-with-a-capital-F to organize Take Back the Night and other assorted rituals. And something had to give.

Walker and the editors argue that what’s “new” in the new feminism is that it exists not so much as a women’s movement per se as in the ways that women’s participation and concerns have informed the activist and cultural left.

Instead of stories about defending abortion clinics and arguments about porn, The Fire this Time (ital) tells of Puerto Rican women fighting to kick the U.S. Navy off the island of Vieques, and how zines, urban theater and Indymedia have created space for women to speak.

The anthology almost avoids the last round of debates, particularly around pornography, representation and women’s sexual agency. The one exception is “Reclaiming Jezabel" by Ayana Bird. She takes on the state of commercial hip-hop and honestly addresses the dearth of “reclamation” in the age of Lil’ Kim. With “post-feminists” largely winning those debates in the popular culture (and among young women), criticizing misogyny is perceived as prudish, as if all there was to sex was the sex industry.

Feminism aside, this is a good read on several movements that don’t get much press, such as the work to expose and shut down the School of the Americas and Robin Templeton’s report on young women defying the “prison industrial complex.”

The anthology’s weakness is almost not its fault. The kind of radical activism discussed in the book largely avoids politics in the sense of “who has power and who’s going to get it.” While illustrating many of the fault lines in the world today, the essays, like Margaret Walker’s days at Yale, lack any cogent vision of what the world could be like if all these activist movements really got somewhere.

All this activism, struggle and sacrifice – for what? Activistism?

I went back and looked at Robin Morgan’s Sisterhood Is Powerful, the defining anthology of the women’s liberation movement. It really was powerful. Sisterhood (ital.) fearlessly challenged everything from the dull slavery of domestic life and women’s lot at work, to the blatant male dominance of the American left. It was on fire. Change was coming now! And it wasn’t just a matter of strident tone or a list of demands. Women were making change -- from consciousness-raising to self-defense, from creating women’s action groups to providing illegal abortion services to learning about the clitoris.

Sisterhood was revolutionary in every sense: social, cultural, economic and philosophical. Nothing was sacred and debates about where power lay, whom to organize, what kinds of allegiances needed to be built and plenty of other nitty-gritty from a diversity of perspectives read as sharp today as 30 years ago.

Without a goal beyond “dealing” with “issues,” the activism The Fire This Time catalogues is more like a smolder with a few willful sparks. The radical, determined and hopeful energy that made women’s lib a living reality is absent. The book’s two introductions read more like foundation funding requests than a challenge to power.

Maybe it’s too much to ask from a book. This world really needs a new feminism, and the editors and contributors are right on to ground feminism in social movements dealing with real life and not just the simulacra of representational politics. But saying that all issues are women’s issues because women are involved or are leaders misses the point.

The question of how women and men will become free is a practical question and one the book just doesn’t ask, let alone answer.

Jed Brandt, from the NYC Indypendent
- e-mail: jed@indymedia.org
- Homepage: http://nyc.indymedia.org

Comments

Hide the following 26 comments

SIGH

28.04.2004 07:42

Feminism is yesterday's argument looking for a dispute. For women of my generation the battles have been won, the victory is ours. Some women (and men) are still fighting wars that are no longer relevant. Women refuse to be victims and a call for yet another Feminist uprising misses the point.

We are no longer our Mothers, we have our choices, don't be a victim, you are already free you just can't see it. Don't listento the voices that say you are being downtrodden, you are equal and only those wishing keep the yoke of "discrimination" around your neck want you to feel a victim.

Sophie


Go girl !

28.04.2004 07:58

Go Girl !!!!!!

We had this same conversation recently, our mothers won this fight for us and now there are some (often men) who want to tell us we are victims and to feel bad.

Women who use discrimination as an excuse often can't face up to the facts of their own inadequecy or lack of talent.

Stand tall stand proud

Alison


battle won? then why..

28.04.2004 10:07

..are less than a fifth of MPs women?
..do women earn on average 19% less than men? (nearly 40% less in part-time work)
..do women pensioners only get 32p for every £1 men get?
..are an average of two women per week killed by a current or former partner?

I don't mean to diss your self-confidence, you go for it in your life, that's great. But please don't assume your experience is the experience of every woman, or dismiss the huge structural inequalities that still exist in our economy and society.

It isn't about being victims. It's about recognising real inequality and oppression and organising together to challenge it.

Always good to give a link for further info + action, so here's one to the Fawcett Society (formerly the National Union of Womens Suffrage Societies ie. the Suffragettes):
 http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/

type


Happy slags.

28.04.2004 11:16

...so some (rich) wimmin are doing alright for themselves now, are happy little capitalist pig-dogs, so "the battle's over" and fuck everybody else innit. If you're not doing OK then it must be because you're 'inadequate', 'untalented' (where talent is defined as the capacity to ruthlessly facilitate meaningless production), and losers (a favourite term among modern mainstream women)... socially unproductive units destined for the gas chambers a course. It seems to me that this is more about class than gender discrimination.

Posh.

Posh
mail e-mail: poshspiceisaslag@hotmail.com


silly girls

28.04.2004 11:55


Feminism is a belief, the belief in the equality of women. Feminism will never stop, if we had equality there would be more feminists not less.

We've had this conversation before. GO AWAY AND LEARN ABOUT SOMETHING BEFORE YOU COMMENT ON IT.

Women do not have equality in the UK. Women have less in most other parts of the world. You're "I'm all right Jack" attitude does your historical sisters and your global sisters a great disservice. Posh is right, just coz you came out top on the capitalist heap doesnt mean the rest of us did. How many women suffer to provide you with your comfortable 'equal' existence?

btw, great online zine here: www.thefword.co.uk

random


Post-feminism is evil

28.04.2004 13:04

It seems increasingly to me that one of the biggest hurdles women face in the fight for equality is other women claiming the race is over that feminism is dead, that equality has arrived, that we now live in an era of post-feminism. Post-feminism was a trerm made uo by men to con women into believeing they had achieved equality. Post-feminist women are more of trouble than chauvinist males.

deffinitely not a post-feminist


?

28.04.2004 15:24

Well done sophie and alison for saying what sisters are saying throughout the country. There are far too many women telling us we must feel oppressed, that we must feel we are losing out.

I'm sick of hearing how I must carry on fighting the battles of years ago.

We won for God's sake !

Julia


Discrimination Report

28.04.2004 17:02

The desire for some women to want others to feel discriminated against marks a new phase in feminist thinking that has developed only in the last five or six years. Women of the 19 to 28 year old age group simply do not feel discriminated against in the same way their mothers generation did. This feeling of "Total Liberation" as it has become known has caused intense resentment amongst women often only five or ten years older who still feel the fight is ongoing.

The overwhelming majority of British young women (and I have now interviwed 6547)do have ANY feelings of discrimination against them.

The report is still in draft form but can be viewed at:

www.social-report-brighton-org.uk/munson/papers%12784

Prof Angela Munson


so bloody dense

28.04.2004 19:18

well im 27 and there are several women younger than me that I know of that are active feminists, both locally and nationally, let alone beyond. the fact that so many younger women believe that equality is here is significant, very telling of their brainwashing. Our media has been telling us feminism is dead for decades, indeed, during women's liberation in the seventies the media, and the majority of women, thought there was no equality battle to fight. In the fifties the great majority of women were unconcerned about their oppression. When women were unable to vote the majority didnt admit there was a problem, as is always the case a minority fought for our rights and we should try to remember that they were ridiculed at the time.. I think if you look at the number of people here and in the US that believe the recent Iraq war was necessary and legal, you'll find a huge number (in the US more than half) - proving beyond a doubt that people believe what theyre told and rarely bother to think any further than that.

so, Sophie, Alison, Prof. here's a simple question with regards to your (successful) brainwashing. In the past century women have had a huge and long revolution. Due to several movements, we have won the vote, the right to divorce, the right to our own children, contraception, abortion, the right to work after marriage, the right to work in any job, the right to school and university, and many steps forward have been made in the rape laws... these are just a few of the achievements made in the last 100 years. As modern history goes, in the UK and internationally Women have achieved far more than any other movement.
So, during your GCSE history, just how much time was devoted to this subject? Did you even do a SINGLE project on it?

Tell me, how many women directors can you name? How about producers? Music producers? Company directors? Judges? MPs? Newspaper editors? High ranking police/military personnel? High ranking ANYONE?

Did you know that in "the average" household where both partners work, more than 70% of the housework is still done by the woman? The figures are similar for childcare too. And in the workplace women still earn 20% less than men in comparable positions. Even in schools, where the majority of teachers are women, the majority of Heads are still men. And in hospitals where the majority of nurses are women, the majority of doctors and surgeons are men. Wherever you look men still retain their positions above women. And if you have a heart attack, men are three times more likely to be 'saved' than women.

If you are raped, do you think the police will believe your case and prosecute? Or do you think that they'll drop the case, because you cant prove you didnt give consent? Whose word is automatically believed?

I could go on and on, but unfortunately I know Im talking to some empty headed fools who are not interested in actually LEARNING about any of this.

This is not about being a victim. Its about fighting and working for an equal society.

And again, feminism is a concept, a belief. It can never be over. If the world were equal tomorrow, I would still be a feminist, I would still believe in the concept of equal rights and equal value. The only reason so many myths convince you that feminism is dead or wrong, is because we are still oppressed, by our patriarchal government and media. Dont believe the hype.

random


quotes

28.04.2004 19:53

Prof, your link doesnt exist. Please can you post the correct link to your study?

Some quotes:

"A natural response is to change the word feminist to a word with fewer stigmas attached. But inevitably the same thing will happen to that magical word. Part of the radical connotation of feminism is not due to the word, but to the action. The act of a woman standing up for herself is radical, whether she calls herself a feminist or not."
Paula Kamen, feminist

"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat." Rebecca West, 1913

"...the feminist aim is not and never has been about joining the system - but changing it." Yvonne Roberts, Independent 2001

"In 1970 the movement was called 'Women's Liberation'... Liberationists sought the world over for clues to what women's lives could be like if they were free to define their own values, order their own priorities and decide their own fate." Germaine Greer

"If the 'f' word, feminism, is out of fashion today, that's because it's associated with the seventies - the mythic decade of our daughters' births. How can anything espoused by their mothers be either radical or real? But note that our daughters nonetheless want everything that feminism stands for: equal pay, egalitarian marriages, and a place in the White House (without being smuggled in by the president for unpresidential duties). Feminism is the whole climate of their lives, the air they breathe. It hardly needs a name anymore. This is good." Erica Jong

"Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings" Cheris Kramerae

"Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its
battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions.. for safety on the streets... for child care, for social welfare...for rape crisis
centers, women's refuges, reforms in the law." (If someone says) 'Oh, I'm not a feminist,' (I ask) 'Why? What's your problem?'" Dale Spender

“Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.“ Rev. Pat Robertson, 1992 Republican Convention

I got these quotes from the www.fword.co.uk Go there and do the Equality Quiz.

random


Mouthfull

28.04.2004 22:57

>Tell me, how many women directors can you name? How about producers? Music producers? >Company directors? Judges? MPs? Newspaper editors? High ranking police/military >personnel? High ranking ANYONE?


..And there was me thinking this debate was on a revolutionary tip. Seems like some people just want to reinforce the farce around them and say 'Hey, we won'.

Nothing's gained. We all lose if you continue to aspire to eat shit, speak shit and dish out shit. No offence. Just try not to help the enemy.

Anna Key


replies

28.04.2004 23:05

"are less than a fifth of MPs women?
..do women earn on average 19% less than men? (nearly 40% less in part-time work)
..do women pensioners only get 32p for every £1 men get?
..are an average of two women per week killed by a current or former partner? "

Less than a fifth of MP's are women probably because less women fancy going into party politics and are politically involved in other ways.

Women earn on average 19% less than men because many have to take a career break for kids, or because the manual work that women in the unskilled sector do is less well paid because of the market-value of that work. The gap IS narrowing anyway. UK men work the longest working hours in Europe.

Women pensioners get less because they live longer therefore they need to make their pensions last longer.

What about the number of men killed by their female partners (although feminists always say it must have been the man's fault so no doubt you'll spout that too). The reason why is that women use manipulation due to the fact they are better at that, whereas men tend to resort to violence more often than women. What caused these men to get this angry should be the question, especially if you're suggesting that women who kill their partners were driven to it.

"Tell me, how many women directors can you name? How about producers? Music producers? Company directors? Judges? MPs? Newspaper editors? High ranking police/military personnel? High ranking ANYONE? "

that isnt an indication of discrimination, it may be that women just don't want to go into those fields. No use forcing people. Your attitude more or less prooves that you're the brainwashed one, why is being a company director more important than bringing up the next generation and bringing kids into the world?

"If you are raped, do you think the police will believe your case and prosecute? Or do you think that they'll drop the case, because you cant prove you didnt give consent? Whose word is automatically believed? "

In the UK we have a thing called "innocent until proven guilty", in every crime the burden of proof is on the prosecution. Are you really trying to say that the accusers are ALWAYS correct? If so then you are clearly the naive/dangerous one. We've always operated on the principle that it is better to have someone guilty free than someone innocent behind bars, especially when crimes such as rape are viewed with abhorrence by the vast majority of people. Then again, according to the feminists all men are rapists, and your attitude betrays your true feelings of hatred against men.

Two different beings can never be exactly represented in every sphere of society. Women are women, men and men, and learn to respect our different priorities before whinging.

anti-feminist


Sorry re web link

29.04.2004 07:45

Sorry, we are having some problems with the web site but it should be back up and running later today (so I was told yesterday by our IT department !)

I was interested to read the views of other contributors. When speaking to women who still see widespread discrimination I was surprised to find the level of aggression they displayed when told that their views where in a minority, some simply refused to accept that this new generation felt that way, others accused the media of generating a campaign. We have yet to draw a conclusion to the study which will finish around September this year but there is one overwhelming statistic which surprised me as much as it has clearly caused debate here.

The vast majority of young women feel they have never experienced discrimination and never expect to. They see no barriers to promotion because of their gender and regard no life path outside their target.

Angela Munson


hostile forces

29.04.2004 09:40


ooh the hostility.

how about this for equality:
WOMEN ARE HALF THE WORLD’S POPULATION
WORKING TWO THIRDS OF THE WORLD’S WORKING HOURS
RECEIVING 10% OF THE WORLD’S INCOME
OWNING LESS THAN 1% OF THE WORLD’S PROPERTY

random


Read again

29.04.2004 11:34

As a man who lives with a commited and active feminist I read these articles with some interest. What is worth noting is not that discrimination exists, it does, but that a generation of women doesn't recognise it and doesn't think it as being a hindrance to their lives.

In the past women campaigned and worked against discrimination because they could see it all around them. Now we have a new generation of women who no longer feel this way. This makes the work of those campaigning against discrimination harder if not impossible

Some of the contributors here are not recognising the point made by the Professor from Brighton - just because discrimination exists does not mean it is a factor in making a women feel discriminated against. In short a women who does not feel she is at a disadvantage may well not be so.

I understand the Professor's comments when she says some of those interviewed sometimes acted with aggression when told their views were in a minority. I prepared a paper for the old GLC some years ago where research among certain sections of the Afro/ West Indian community ( those over 45 mostly ) showed a majority of them did not favour their children learning about African culture as they thought it irrelevant to their lives in Britain today. This research was greeted by some at the GLC as "flawed" for not confirming the stereotypical view. I was accused of racsism by at least two (white) council officers. The Professor may well receive a similar backlash from others as we have seen here.

A man


sisters

29.04.2004 14:56

there are reasons why lots of younger women do not feel discriminated against. but whether they recognise it or not, doesnt mean that the discrimination does not exist. a few years ago i had the same feelings about feminism, because i was not yet asking questions, because i was not recognising issues. becasue i bought into the myth of c razy ugly man hating dykes, the myth our media wants us to believe. i now have a daughter, and my perspective has changed entirely. i ask questions, i read, i learn.

the fact is, if these women dont know anything about feminism, they do have the option to learn about it. i think coming here and criticising a movement and a belief which they know nothing about, in such pathetic and senseless ways, is ignorant, petty and nasty.

the other main issue here, is that whatever young women in the UK feel about their own equality, the fact is that most of the world treats its women as worthless. women all over the globe are still our sisters, and we shouldnt be writing them off just because some middle class girls think that feminism is dead.


random


Your choice

29.04.2004 16:03

Random if you want to buy into the whole "Women are victims, we feel oppressed" baggage that is your choice. I choose not to. I have never felt oppressed or discriminated against.



We choose to be free, you choose not to be, I respect your choice but are surprised you made it

sophie


Women - don'y ya luv em

29.04.2004 16:21

DICTIONARY FOR WOMEN'S PERSONAL ADS:

40-ish.............................................49
Adventurous.................Slept with all your mates
Athletic......................................No t1ts
Average looking...............Has a face like an ar5e
Beautiful...........................Pathological liar
Contagious Smile..................Does a lot of pills
Educated....................Was f*cked to bits at Uni
Emotionally Secure......................On medication
Feminist..................Bad hair and no dress sense
Free spirit....................................Junkie
Friendship first..........................Former sl*t
Fun..........................................Annoying
Gentle............................................Dull
Good Listener................................Autistic
New-Age.............................Body hair problems
Old-fashioned..........................No BJs or anal
Open-minded.................................Desperate
Outgoing.........................Loud and Embarrassing
Passionate...............................Sloppy drunk
Poet.......................................Depressive
Professional....................................Bitch
Romantic........................................Frigid
Social.....................Fanny like a clowns pocket
Cuddly............................................Fat
Voluptuous...................................Very Fat
Large lady.................................Hugely Fat
Wants Soul mate...............................Stalker
Widow.........................................Murderer

A woman with a sense of humour


silly girl

29.04.2004 16:31

sophie you really are an idiot.

i am a feminist. i believe that women are of equal value to men. that is what it means, that is what it is.

i believe that women do not have equal value in the UK. I believe this because it is a fact. A fact that you can not deny, once you actually make an effort to learn about these things. I believe that women are held back in many (most) areas, and as a result I, and many other feminists, are trying to change that, trying to make more opportunities for women, trying to improve our connection to the women around us now, and the women who fought for us in the past. I would hardly describe these women as victims, these women who are actively trying to shape a better future, actively trying to learn of their own history. Or do you not understand the meaning of that word, Victim, either? You really should buy yourself a dictionary.

You have made it perfectly clear just how ignorant you are. Why you bother to comment on a subject you know so little about is bewildering, do you somehow hope that by attacking other women you will be more acceptable to men?

random


Always keeping one eye open

29.04.2004 16:38

I believe some of these posts to be missing the point of the review and analysis of this book:

"The question of how women and men will become free is a practical question and one the book just doesn’t ask, let alone answer."

This is important please note the "women and men" point of this summary.

Oppression, repression and cultural disadvantage applies to both sexes and this is something overlooked by the majority of generic Feminist commentary.

As in every society as soon as we become complacent the old habits creep in, change their appearance or subtly shift their stance. Too not learn from history is a mistake. Someone will try and control you in some way or another at some point in your life, historically this simple premise is repeated again and again.

With this in mind, as a man I would consider myself pro-feminism and feel it would be naive of any woman or man to ignore degradation of basic human rights and/or expectations in this or any other country for women or men.

If I hear yet another simplistic male-bashing, psuedo-fem rant I'll simply have to spew.

An example from an earlier post:
"Tell me, how many women directors can you name? How about producers?"

Well I can name between 50-60 female producers. I can provide you with contact details, credits and rate cards as well if you like. I have worked for ten years as a freelancer in Film and TV and can tell you that in TV at least virtually every production I've worked on has been Produced by a woman. Glancing back over a ten year CV I did a quick head count only five out of the 40+ films, documentaries and series that I've worked on have been produced by men. The last time I was interview by a man for any job in that industry was in 1999.

In the last contract job I took they had to specify the need for a male applicant as the entire production was female as were most applicants.

Additionally:
"are less than a fifth of MPs women?
..do women earn on average 19% less than men? (nearly 40% less in part-time work)
..do women pensioners only get 32p for every £1 men get?
..are an average of two women per week killed by a current or former partner? "

Stats are fine, but essentially useless if unbalanced. How about men working 20 hours extra per week on average, working in 99% of all dangerous jobs and this little doozy which if was happening to women in this country there would be uproar dieing 8 to 5 years before women depending on which part of the country we live in. If this happened to women and not men we would never hear the end of it.

In fact it does happen to women but between women - Reading women live four years longer than Manchester women for example - but we hear little of it possibly because there is no evil male stereotype to blame?

Divide and Conquer is the age old tactic of ruling others that I think works equally well intellectually in our culture as well as in it's geo-cultural guise. If we are told, that what you believe/express concern over is a mens issue, a woman's issue, a black issue, a regional issue or any other segregated form of thought do we not lose sight of what all this is ultimately about?

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - for all not just the few.

Frank Coles
mail e-mail: francis_coles@hotmail.com


What a shame

29.04.2004 16:53

Random,

What a shame you felt the need to insult me because I didn't agree with your views. As I said you carry on being a victim if you want - me, I'll be concentrating on more important things.

As a final comment because I have no desire to continue this dialogue with you. No I do not say or believe the things I have posted because I want to be liked by men. Although it is irrelevant to this discussion I am a lesbian in a long term commited relationship and the only man whose admiration and affection I seek is that of my brother, but then he's intelligent enough to know me for the free liberated, non oppressed women I am.

Love
sophie

sophie


the same sophie?

29.04.2004 18:06

are you by any chance the same sophie who prostituted her virginity earlier this year in order to raise some quick cash? just wondering.

random


Random is clear to see

29.04.2004 18:49

Judging by the comments it looks as though Random is a man which explains a lot of the women hating comments directed against Sophie and others.

Whats the matter Random intimidated by strong women ?
Don't like the idea that they feel your equal ?
Feel they should be at home making cakes ?

Get back to your Playboy so you can carry on pretending women are interested in you

Siren Sue


as if

30.04.2004 10:43

well, "Siren", it's good to see you bothered to read first comment later.

is it a prerequisite to be rich and priviliged before i can call myself a Woman?

I am an intelligent and attractive woman in my late twenties, growing in knowledge, strength and power every day.

I grew up being told to Be Like A Man - don't cry (like a girl) dont nag (like a woman) dont moan (like a girl) dont be weak (like a woman). In school my biology as a Woman was ignored, as was my history as a Woman. Every day throughout most of my life I have been bombarded with images of women as sexual prey. The message has come through clearly - I can (as a woman) never be beautiful enough, thin enough, my breasts can never be too big, but god forbid i open my mouth for anything other than sucking cock, or I become a Shrew "you're turning into your mother"... Encouraged by the media and society to hate other women, either because they are competition or because they are Feminists (big crazy hairy scary dykes). I bought into it for a while, It's extremely hard not to when it's all you ever see.

But then I became a mother, and I grew up. I think all the time, "women who think too much" as the title goes. I read every day, articles, books, history. I converse and discuss every day with other women all round the world. I meet with women locally. I've started writing, which I havent done since it was beaten out of me in my early teens.

I will not be a victim any more. I will not allow my daughter to be a victim.

I take huge offence at the ridiculous nonsense put here by Sophie "Sigh, feminists are like, so last season..." What next, is she going to tell me that there is no class system? Well, after all, SHE's never been discriminated against because of her class, clothes, accent, colour, gender. So that must mean that EVERYONE is okay. And of course, any unluckier woman/working class/other race has "given up their freedom" to "willingly be a victim" because they have no talent, ambition, strength.

Sophie IS an idiot, which is just what she has been programmed to be. Women will suffer for her, because she sees us all as willing victims to stomp all over, somehow we are not quite human in her eyes. And you, Siren, need to read before you comment.

random


Feminism, Ladyfests, zines

05.05.2004 15:26

I don't want to start up another stream of personal attacks, it's really dissapointing to see this kind of response when we are discussing feminism. The activists who came before us did a lot of bloody hard work, and won a lot of rights. But that's not the end of the story- as mentioned, when you take a global view then sex oppression consolidates and combines with racism, poverty, homophobia etc in which people as social classes are systematically oppressed. Whilst I applaud self-confidence, I think the bigger picture curbs any clear-cut victory that 'we've won'. It might sound cheesy, but if personal freedoms are built upon the exploitation of other people (and one example might be how what we consume is manufactured by workers with limited rights, pay and respect), and our conveniences come at the cost of further fucking up this planet, then what freedom is that really?
I think that we can observe and protest against global and local inequalities without becoming 'victims'. Whilst the women who posted that they didn't feel or want to behave like victims possibly meant that they didn't feel oppressed in their personal lives, I think that others are 'victims' and they work through that, and are both victims and survivors. I have in mind those who have suffered hate crimes such as sexual violence. It can be an important step to realise that you are a 'victim' of someone else and that the rape, beating, etc wasn't your fault, you weren't 'asking for it'. this is probably a tangent point, its just that some women do feel like victims through attacks, and that's a complicated part of their identity and healing process. Victim seems to be a kind of taboo "identity" nowadays and I think that can be harsh on the people who are actually victims and keep their shit together and get through it. Does that make sense?

But, no matter what you think of feminism, I think there's plently of action and work being done by young women that should appeal quite broadly. I have in mind Ladyfest festivals which showcase female talents and combine politics, music, art, workshops, films, learning, debating, socialising and so on.(see  http://www.ladyfest.org) they are brilliant fun and are really inspiring events, usually run on a d.i.y. level and are for all genders and sexualities. There's also great zines being put out where people discuss personal and political issues. I run a zine distro called Fingerbang, which carry zines, books and music. These d.i.y cultures are amazing, check em out:  http://www.geocities.com/fingerbangdistro

If anyone wants to chat


Red
mail e-mail: red_chidgey@yahoo.com
- Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/fingerbangdistro


Thank You

04.05.2005 01:37

This is the best reason I've ever heard to describe why so many women can't deal with life and end up on drugs for depression:

"I grew up being told to Be Like A Man - don't cry (like a girl) dont nag (like a woman) dont moan (like a girl) dont be weak (like a woman). In school my biology as a Woman was ignored, as was my history as a Woman. Every day throughout most of my life I have been bombarded with images of women as sexual prey. The message has come through clearly - I can (as a woman) never be beautiful enough, thin enough, my breasts can never be too big, but god forbid i open my mouth for anything other than sucking cock, or I become a Shrew "you're turning into your mother"... Encouraged by the media and society to hate other women, either because they are competition or because they are Feminists (big crazy hairy scary dykes). I bought into it for a while, It's extremely hard not to when it's all you ever see."

I certainly identify.

I won't think feminism is unnecessary till I start seeing as many naked men in the media as I do women. I won't think feminism is unnecessary until I see that rape and violence and humiliation of women is a niche market in porn, not mainstream. I won't think feminism unnecessary until I don't have to beg my boyfriend to help me clean house while I work and go to school. I won't think feminism unnecessary until I see that the majority of women have more productive to do than work to make themselves into the sex objects that I see everyday.

I will not think feminism unnecessary until I have the right to say to anyone, man or woman, "I feel I'm being treated unfairly," without being labelled a radical.

An American Sister

Wendy


Upcoming Coverage
View and post events
Upcoming Events UK
24th October, London: 2015 London Anarchist Bookfair
2nd - 8th November: Wrexham, Wales, UK & Everywhere: Week of Action Against the North Wales Prison & the Prison Industrial Complex. Cymraeg: Wythnos o Weithredu yn Erbyn Carchar Gogledd Cymru

Ongoing UK
Every Tuesday 6pm-8pm, Yorkshire: Demo/vigil at NSA/NRO Menwith Hill US Spy Base More info: CAAB.

Every Tuesday, UK & worldwide: Counter Terror Tuesdays. Call the US Embassy nearest to you to protest Obama's Terror Tuesdays. More info here

Every day, London: Vigil for Julian Assange outside Ecuadorian Embassy

Parliament Sq Protest: see topic page
Ongoing Global
Rossport, Ireland: see topic page
Israel-Palestine: Israel Indymedia | Palestine Indymedia
Oaxaca: Chiapas Indymedia
Regions
All Regions
Birmingham
Cambridge
Liverpool
London
Oxford
Sheffield
South Coast
Wales
World
Other Local IMCs
Bristol/South West
Nottingham
Scotland
Social Media
You can follow @ukindymedia on indy.im and Twitter. We are working on a Twitter policy. We do not use Facebook, and advise you not to either.
Support Us
We need help paying the bills for hosting this site, please consider supporting us financially.
Other Media Projects
Schnews
Dissident Island Radio
Corporate Watch
Media Lens
VisionOnTV
Earth First! Action Update
Earth First! Action Reports
Topics
All Topics
Afghanistan
Analysis
Animal Liberation
Anti-Nuclear
Anti-militarism
Anti-racism
Bio-technology
Climate Chaos
Culture
Ecology
Education
Energy Crisis
Fracking
Free Spaces
Gender
Globalisation
Health
History
Indymedia
Iraq
Migration
Ocean Defence
Other Press
Palestine
Policing
Public sector cuts
Repression
Social Struggles
Technology
Terror War
Workers' Movements
Zapatista
Major Reports
NATO 2014
G8 2013
Workfare
2011 Census Resistance
Occupy Everywhere
August Riots
Dale Farm
J30 Strike
Flotilla to Gaza
Mayday 2010
Tar Sands
G20 London Summit
University Occupations for Gaza
Guantanamo
Indymedia Server Seizure
COP15 Climate Summit 2009
Carmel Agrexco
G8 Japan 2008
SHAC
Stop Sequani
Stop RWB
Climate Camp 2008
Oaxaca Uprising
Rossport Solidarity
Smash EDO
SOCPA
Past Major Reports
Encrypted Page
You are viewing this page using an encrypted connection. If you bookmark this page or send its address in an email you might want to use the un-encrypted address of this page.
If you recieved a warning about an untrusted root certificate please install the CAcert root certificate, for more information see the security page.

Global IMC Network


www.indymedia.org

Projects
print
radio
satellite tv
video

Africa

Europe
antwerpen
armenia
athens
austria
barcelona
belarus
belgium
belgrade
brussels
bulgaria
calabria
croatia
cyprus
emilia-romagna
estrecho / madiaq
galiza
germany
grenoble
hungary
ireland
istanbul
italy
la plana
liege
liguria
lille
linksunten
lombardia
madrid
malta
marseille
nantes
napoli
netherlands
northern england
nottingham imc
paris/île-de-france
patras
piemonte
poland
portugal
roma
romania
russia
sardegna
scotland
sverige
switzerland
torun
toscana
ukraine
united kingdom
valencia

Latin America
argentina
bolivia
chiapas
chile
chile sur
cmi brasil
cmi sucre
colombia
ecuador
mexico
peru
puerto rico
qollasuyu
rosario
santiago
tijuana
uruguay
valparaiso
venezuela

Oceania
aotearoa
brisbane
burma
darwin
jakarta
manila
melbourne
perth
qc
sydney

South Asia
india


United States
arizona
arkansas
asheville
atlanta
Austin
binghamton
boston
buffalo
chicago
cleveland
colorado
columbus
dc
hawaii
houston
hudson mohawk
kansas city
la
madison
maine
miami
michigan
milwaukee
minneapolis/st. paul
new hampshire
new jersey
new mexico
new orleans
north carolina
north texas
nyc
oklahoma
philadelphia
pittsburgh
portland
richmond
rochester
rogue valley
saint louis
san diego
san francisco
san francisco bay area
santa barbara
santa cruz, ca
sarasota
seattle
tampa bay
united states
urbana-champaign
vermont
western mass
worcester

West Asia
Armenia
Beirut
Israel
Palestine

Topics
biotech

Process
fbi/legal updates
mailing lists
process & imc docs
tech