i am unable to attend and discuss with u at your meeting, but i would like to make this contrubtion.

this arguement to have a seperate meeting to the offical social forum was repeated in india , only that time it was the world social forum.

a secterian marxist party decided to hold their own WSF seperated from the offical wsf . it was disasterous, whilst there were over 100,000 activist meeting from all kind of background, ethnic, religous , trade unionists ,peasants, environmentist, socialists, ect ect u had the sad marxist sect meeting which consisted of 200 people who did not relate to any one and had not progressed the movement by one inch and went home depressed.

i fear if the wombles do the same in london then it is likely that the alternative ESF would consit of mainly white , non-muslim, middle class types also relating to nobody. not only would it be secterian, it would not benefit your organisation and individuals would be denied the experience of mixing with a whole layer of people, also it would be extremely embrassing for the wombles as they are inititating this idea.

dont make the same mistake. u have been warned!!!

Red Letter actually makes the point for those of us who are going to plan autonomous spaces when she/he says that at Mumbai "a secterian marxist party decided to hold their own WSF seperated from the offical wsf . it was disasterous, whilst there were over 100,000 activist meeting from all kind of background, ethnic, religous , trade unionists ,peasants, environmentist, socialists, ect ect u had the sad marxist sect meeting which consisted of 200 people who did not relate to any one and had not progressed the movement by one inch and went home depressed."

1. This is the UK, not India and we have to deal with UK realities, not those in India or that region. Given the intention of those who have hijacked the organising of the ESF NOT to have a genuine mass event where pluralism and diversity are enshrined in the process, alternative spaces will be imperative.

2. The Wombles - and all other groups, networks and individuals alienated by the ESF - are not going to either want to or be able to participate in the ESF: it will cost too much to get in, and they will never get a seminar or workshop past the pretorian guard who will be obstructing all proposals they don't like through the programme group.

Spaces that suit their needs and politics have therefore evry right to be created.

3. The Wombles are initiating a conversation about this and they aren't a sectarian marxist group - i think the anarchist and autonomist movement in the UK can avoid the sad spectacle of the Mumbai Resistance.

"i fear if the wombles do the same in london then it is likely that the alternative ESF would consit of mainly white , non-muslim, middle class types also relating to nobody. not only would it be secterian, it would not benefit your organisation and individuals would be denied the experience of mixing with a whole layer of people, also it would be extremely embrassing for the wombles as they are inititating this idea".

Red Letter - wake up: the alternative spaces will be the only places where people will be able to mix freely with each other and find cheap food and zones to network and have dialogue HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO THE ESF? IT REALLY ISN'T THAT GREAT YOU KNOW?!?!

AND WHY DO YOU ALL USE 'MUSLIMS' AS YOUR TOKEN RACIAL MINORITY?

This country is rich with diverse ethnic minority communities that will also want to come and should be encouraged to come - it seems the politics of Respect have got to you...

2,3 many autonomous spaces

how many people are u going to engage with? if you decide to hold a seperate event you will miss the opportinity to relate to people and win people to your arguement.

u can predict that at least 50,000 people will attend the esf probably 100,000. most of these people will not be members in any grouping and will want to have a geniune debate about social issues.

equally u can predict that many of these people will be interested in your views, will gain confidence and like u open up their own social centre in their area, in turn increase the network of social centres.

this is exactly what happened in italy, when i went to florence esf , many of the audience were young radicalised italians, influenced by your comrades in ya basta. they occupy /squatt many centres and have great influence and limited respect.

yes the meetings were dull, but we also had fun in the nights and florence esf will always be remebered for calling for international demo namely feb 15 the beginning of the end to the war mongers.

The idea of this discussion and hopefully initial organising meeting si to pull together the different strands of resistance that have been in existence before and after the visibility of international mobilisations. Resistance that has sort to go beyond ideologies and create it's own combination of theoritical analysis and practice. There are some of these groups and individuals who are "within" the ESF and are holding seminars and workshops as well as groups who don't or can't hold seminars organising their own autonomous event, the way they want to, in a space that they feel truly reflects their politics.

What would be good is if we create a common idea, with a common visible presence that can showcase this movement. This means interacting with the ESF participants. Why else do you think we are doing it at the same time in the same city??! I hope that we will manage to embrace all the diverse strands of resistance, and create a space for everyone who wants to engage and participate in building movements against this system, something which I don't think the "leadership" of the ESF, with their beuracrats and professionals are able of.

If you can't attend this meeting then there will be more meetings(!!) in the near future.

W