It seems that they are telling people to vote Respect.

Respect in London, but Green in South-East.
They dont want to risk loosing Caroline Lucas whos winning margin was only 249 votes last time.

dont make me laugh. This bunch of Trotsky losers should learn to get some respect, what with their Bliar placards and slogans that show no respect for people living in the face of an illegal occupation.

Another SWP front formed by fawning sycophants for George (I was Saddams whipping boy) Galloway that will be another distant memory on June 11th..

I usually have respect for anarchists, but when they come out using their keywords "SWP front", "Authoritarian Trot" etc etc, it just pisses me off. The article is about how Muslims can vote. What have you done to help enfranchise Muslims, who are a persecuted sector of society?

Back to the topic - I live in the South-East area. I will be voting Respect, but I understand that Caroline Lucas does a good job. She has spoken out against the Hijab ban, as well as opposing the war. But I don't want ANY troops in Iraq, not even UN troops, so i'll be voting Respect.

Why do you make a distinction for Muslims? Making a distinction for one person based upon religion or any other reason make my skin crawl and stinks of racism even if it was not intended.

If you have respect for anarchists then you must also be aware that anyone who calls themself an anarchist are against any authoritarian organising principles of which the SWP and Respect are two examples.

"Why do you make a distinction for Muslims? Making a distinction for one person based upon religion or any other reason make my skin crawl and stinks of racism even if it was not intended."

Since 9-11, and even before that, there is/was a large amount of anti-Islam feeling in this country. You see it in the media. You cannot deny that.

All I am saying is that why have a go at a party that is standing up for their rights? These people who are abused, physically and verbally in the street, can now have a voice.

Although I am against parliamentary routes anyway, I feel that at this moment in time, getting a party like Respect elected would be a good thing for Muslims and other groups who don't have a voice.

I understand what you are saying I beleive that putting any hope in the Respect coalition is mis-guided. People voted for the Socialist Alliance - another SWP vehicle for gaining votes, it didn't do as well as they hoped so they lost interest in it and it has no fallen by the wayside. Now the latest buzz word and vote catcher is Respect and people will believe in what they say and some will vote for them but if it doesn't get Galloway elected it too will just be forgotten and swept under the carpet. I think this is wrong to give people false hope and I also believe that Respect/SWP are guilty of blatant opportunism, they do not have any policies other than lets give Blair a good kincking in the election.

Whilst I acknowledge that Muslims are demonised in the media I'm not at all convinced that voting for Respect will change this even if they win all of the seats in which they are running. Replacing one bunch of authoritarians with another will not make any difference to the lives of ordinary people whatever their race/religion etc...

Mr "Techno Anarchist"

Ok mate, your an anarchist yeah, so I can apreciate that you don't like authority in all its forms etc... unfortunately I don't think now is the time to be thinking about great principles. What our movement needs right now is TACTICS!! (I made this point in a previous thread dealing with how I think we should relate to Islamic groups:  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/06/292823.html). Ok you got some vendeta against the SWP or something?? GET OVER IT!! The point is that I think the political movement in the UK (or even Europe) is probably entering one of the most exciting periods we have seen in a long time. I mean come on! Just about everyone I know (I mean EVRYONE!! -including my mum!! -beleive me that is saying something!!) is against this fucking war and what Bush and Blair represent!! Millions of people have been pulled into this anti-war movement -including thousands of Muslims. Mainstream bookshops (like Ottakers etc) are selling out of books by Moore, Chomsky, Pilger etc. I seriously beleive that if ANYONE (yes even you sir) was to publish a book with an anti-Bush title it would go in the top ten!! People are listening to us for christ sake!! We were proved right and people are prepared to listen to us!! (I know this is hard to get used to as we are usually used to boring our unfortunate mates to death down the local with conspiracy theories and stuff, but now you start talking about this stuff and EVERYONE IN THE FUCKING PUB AGREES!!). On top of all this, Mike Moore's movie comes out at cinemas this summer, so this can only get better!!

So, the last thing we wanna be doing right now is internalising. We should be looking at how we can broaden this movement so it gets bigger and even more political. This is the context we are working in I think. This is why I think Respect is a good initiative. Think about it, everyone else is still talking about the same old boring stuff. Respect are going out there, getting their hands dirty and they are the ONLY party that are actually making ANY attempt to aproach Muslims. Come one!! Who were the most militant and lively activists from the anti-war movement?? The Muslims (no disrespect to anyone else!!). We wanna have these guys on our side do we not?? Don't we wanna channel all this anger they feel against Blair into a political movement?? I'm not a member of Respect (before you start the usual mantras!!) -I can't be because I live in Italy -but I really do think they are the only party in the UK that are even attempting to aproach the issue of aliance with the Muslims (this is THE most important question facing the movement in Europe right now I think. Look at what happened in France with everyone from Le Pen right through to the far left supporting this hideous ban on the Hijab!!). They have come under a lot of flack for this for supposedly allying themselves with "reactionary groups", but I really do think people are confusing principles with tactics here. If anyone else can come up with a better strategy for carrying the movement forward and NOT excluding the Muslim groups (who are just as much a part of this movement as anyone else!!), then I'm all ears!! Better to be forging aliances and making a few mistakes than heading the way France went I think. This crap is just gonna push Muslims further into the hands of the clerics I think -or even towards AlQueda elements! -and who can blame them, when all we do is moralise at them about how "reactionary" their religion is??

I think it's time to give these guys the benefit of the doubt. I understand your cynicism about how it was "Socialist Aliance then and Respect now" but do you not think that maybe this was tactical?? I don't think the Socialist Aliance quite fits the mood at the moment. Maybe Respect was formed to adapt to the new situation we find ourselves in?? Besides, it's not just about getting elected, it's about pulling this movement out of stagnancy and taking it forward.

>dont make me laugh. This bunch of Trotsky losers should learn to get some respect, what >with their Bliar placards and slogans that show no respect for people living in the face >of an illegal occupation.

>Another SWP front formed by fawning sycophants for George (I was Saddams whipping boy) >Galloway that will be another distant memory on June 11th..

I'm not sure what you mean about slogan that show no respect for people living in the face of occupation. The Respect placards we put up on Lamp posts across East London yesterday and today say "End the Occupation, Troops out now". I think that's fairly respectful in terms of what people should be saying here to assist those in Iraq.

If this is just an SWP front, I wonder what a genuine coalition would look like - yesterday I leafleted door to door with Respect activists including a PCS member, two muslim activists, a Stop the War campaigner and an unaffiliated anarchist. I was the only SWP member present.

In most of the Respect activities I have been involved in over the last two weeks in East London, including the time when 70 people who helped out with the 'battle bus' a few weekends back, the SWP have been a minority of activists present.

If this is an SWP front.....

Who would care if Respect were a SWP vehicle, as long as it got the job done and we can remove them next time if they go bats? Anarchists at once place I worked successfully backed SWP politicians to eject the entrenched Labour officers, then replaced the SWP with true alternative independents in the next vote. Sometimes our self-organising self-interest can be helped by temporary vote for possible SWP vehicles. If they turn out to be too SWP and we can't re-horizontalise them, we can remove them. It's a constant struggle, but that's politics for you in a party-dominated world where the bulk of voters are party-sheep.

Andy S >

No I'm not about to throw away my principles and moral beliefs because somebody has decided a movement needs tactics. Being anti-war and against Bush and Blair is there is to it eh? Well I think you're badly mistaken. Get rid of Bush and replace him with what? a democrat? Clinton wasn't exactly a peace loving hippy was he? and who replaces Blair? Howard? he would've been in Iraq quicker than Blair was and Kennedy would've went too. His anti-war stance lasted as long as it took to get troops there. I agree a few people are making a lot of money from selling books and films and what have you, but for what end? Their own.

No I don't agree that the most active and lively demonstrators are Muslim I think there are others as active and lively, in my neck of the woods at any rate. We only want people on our side if they agree with our beliefs. No I don't think we want to channel "all this anger" into a political movement because once it gets there it will not come out again.

Yeah I think Respect may be singling out muslims but I think this has more to do with vote catching and opportunism than any high moral reason. I also think both you and Respect should give Muslims a bit more credit, they have brains and can make choices for themselves, you seem to be suggesting that for Muslims the only choice is Respect and authoritarian politics or clerks and Al Queda.

RC>
The placard I don't like is the one that says Bliar Bliar Iraqs on fire. Also I take offence at the vast number of leaflets banners and all manner of shite that all political parties seem to belch out, where does the wood and paper come from? How does it get transported? It's a depressing sight at the end of a protest to view the placard mountains...

What are Respect's policies? Where does it stand on ID cards? Abortion? CCTV? will it stop DSEI? Road Building? will it repeal the terrorism act 2000? Once a party gets into power you can guarantee it will do all it can by any means to stay there.

who are the members of the Coalition? you may have leafleted with a number of different people thats normal isn't it (BNP excepted)? IMO the Respect coalition is an opportunistic vehicle for the benefit of Linsey German and George Galloway. They have tried to hijack the anti-war movement to such an extent that one of the regional STW groups were so worried about this hijacking they tabled a motion at the national conference asking for reassertion of the non-alignment politically. They were subjected to intense pressure from the steering comittee to drop it but thankfully they didn't.


SNP>
Yeah I can sympathise with your sentiments but I dont believe all this crap they come out with about teaching blair a lesson etc... I don't want to replace to one bunch of self-serving career politicians with another lot who will turn out the same. They'll still tell us what to do, still follow us around with cctv and all the rest of it