"No way under anyones view can Israel be considered racist"

Oh yeah? Then how come so many people consider Israel racist then?

You sad, obsessive single issue retard. Its about time you grew up and adopted a less simplistic worldview (as evinced by your pathetically childish definition of racism - hint: Deep South plantation owners used to "employ" loads of black people, but were still racists)

Think about it, if its not too much of a strain for your Ziombie brain.

"Oh yeah? Then how come so many people consider Israel racist then?"

You're comment is morally bankrupt.

Just because so many people say one thing or the other, does that automatically mean they are correct?

Why don't I give you a working example that you might understand and respond to:

There are several within the Muslim community that are taught lies about Judaism. They are also taught that the Jews are descendants of apes and pigs.

I have a feeling that you agree with this, but does it make it RIGHT? Just because there are many people that believe this?



"Think about it, if its not too much of a strain for your Ziombie brain."

Enough said, but seriously - who is the racist now? Are you the pot? Or the kettle?

Am Yisrael Chai!

Firstly I'm Jewish. Secondly, "zionist" is not a racial term. Thirdly - you're a moron.

If you're looking for the respectability afforded by a serious debate, you're not going to find it here.

Debating with idiots, especially idiots as bigoted and unreasonable as yourself, would be time consuming and pointless. We already know your views, we already know that little short of a lobotomy will make you change them.

So what's the point?

It really is best for everyone if you just go away. Really.

Oh by the way - Ziombie, ziombie, ziombie.

The protests outside M&S have now reached the stage of being a competition between two sides who have lost sight of the original idea behind it. The protest recieves no national coverage, it has no effect on the M&S share price or profits, it persuades little if any people to stop visiting the store.

I am happy to object to M&S as a symbol of capitalist exploitation of the developing world but to describe it as rascist displays a fundemental misunderstanding of rascism and its place in British society.

Shock words of this kind lead in time to dilution of impact requiring more extreme descriptions - Nazi, Rascist, Apartheid, Ethnic Cleansing, Terrorist. All have been used here and in other media outlets to describe people and events in an unsuitable way that often hides the real crimes.

The M&S protest now consists of two groups who will not leave until the other does. Each accuses the other of the same in terms of Police support and reaction. Each achieves nothing.

1) indeed, the picket, apart from its function as a stall achieves litte, but apart from this the focus on M&S is silly. Espescially when there are Israeli Arms companies in town! Find out where Raphael have moved to, since the skulked off from just round the corner after repeated protests (thru no help of the M&S picketers). go picket israeli military industries - next to these, the contribution of M&S to israeliis insignificant. And you'll be able to get lots of anti-arms trade people on your side.

or, at the very least, go for an israeli company - what about carmel?

2) insulting each other does not help. i condemn the israeli government unreservedly, but when people are advoacting a contrary position, they (for the most part) are manifestly being sincere - i.e. they are not saying what they're saying because they are themselves supportive of racism. all people's views are socialised - if you'd been born a settlement you'd probably have the views that most settlers have. so help people with their journey.

Journo and ISMer - I look forward to meeting both of you down at the picket where you will have an opportunity to inform people on a weekly basis about Israel.
Journo - It is not a competition between 2 sides. The M&S picketeres were at M&S for 3 years every week before the Zionist showed up. We will be there long after they've gone. We only use them to hold up as an additional reason for people to come down and show support for Palestine.
ISMer - shame you have the view you do, it is misguided and contrary to other ISMers on our picket. We picket M&S precisely because it is a BRITISH company supporting Zionism. I am a British citizen and wish to expose this countrys links to Zionism. Do you comprehend the importance of this? The importance of a focus against our own state? Of having a nucleus to build around rather than jumping around from one company to another?

Would I be right in saying there are no anarchists at this demo. Because they don't support national liberation struggles?

"Would I be right in saying there are no anarchists at this demo."
No.....
some anarchists oppose oppression!

So, like i said, the picket's function as a stall is valuable - i've been a few times, when i'm in london - and it's always good to be able to talk to people about Israel/Palestine. My issue is that if you want to go against a company, M&S isn't the one - they're not even israeli for goodness sake.

anyway, solidarity.

i just spent 3 weeks in the gaza strip where i was shot at several times by snipers, i also escaped from 3 suicide attacks that the police stopped these incidents arnt even reported in the british press.
you talk about israeli terror yet the so called palestinians you claim to support blow up kids shoot mothers and preach hatred why cant you see that, il tell you why because you hate jews, and that dan c crap about'im jewish' dosent wash with us the worst nep nazis also say'im jewish' or my wife or mate is jewish'.
you support arab terror and you blame m and s for the middle east problems its laughable.

do you actually think that we're lying, or that we're misinformed? do you actually think we're anti-semitic?

"i just spent 3 weeks in the gaza strip where i was shot at several times by snipers"

i'm not surprised: you're a soldier in an army occupying their land...duhhh.

'i also escaped from 3 suicide attacks that the police stopped these incidents arnt even reported in the british press.'

i.e. the police claimed to have stopped 3 attacks. all the time police and army claimed to have stopped attacks: it might be true, it might be lies; we've got no way of knowing.

'you talk about israeli terror yet the so called palestinians you claim to support blow up kids shoot mothers and preach hatred why cant you see that'

actually, vitually no-one does support blowing up kids or shooting mothers - including me, whoever it's done by. but on a purely statistical basis, it happens to palestinian kids and mothers more than to israeli ones.

'il tell you why because you hate jews'

no i don't. why would i bother lying? and if i was, would the best expression of it be for me to go to the occupied territories with the ISM and risk getting shot at for trying to talk to soldiers, or would i be anti-semitic in this country, where all the jews aren't armed to the teeth? and note that the same cub-culture from which ISM comes are the same people who are out there organising anti-fascist action in this country, opposing the BNP and wankers like david irving.

'and that dan c crap about'im jewish' dosent wash with us the worst nep nazis also say'im jewish' or my wife or mate is jewish'

clearly that's not true. and even if Dan C is lying, though, you have to admit that there are jewish (and israeli) people who have equally, if not more pro-palestinian views: noam chomsky, norman finkelstein, tanya reinhart, jeff halpern, the israelis protesting against the wall in biddu with palestinians. therefore you clearly cannot say that criticising israel means you must be a gentile.

'you support arab terror and you'

please try and understand. we really don't want anyone to get hurt. we just think that a lasting, peaceful, just solution has to begin with the end of the israeli occupation. and having lived with palestinians for a long time, i can honestly say that, for the most part, the thing they want most is a just peace.

'blame m and s for the middle east problems its laughable.'

well, slightly. but a boycott movement could be an important part of a campaign to pressure israel in to mending its ways - as it was with apartheid south africa.

hope that clears some things up.

just explain to me in plain english what you mean by 'occupied territory'
you see i have a problem with that. the land you refere to gaza and judea samaria the west bank is in fact not occupied because the so called palestinian people have no history at all of ever coming from that actul area yet jews like my grandparents do,
so if in fact my 98 year old gradpa is a jew from hebron who incidentally had a wife who was shot by arabs in 1928 when arabs killed 800 jews there how is israel occupiing?
excuse my spelling im not english by the way.
the fact is the ism support terror you housed the 2 british homocide bombers and corrie and hurndell were helping protect terrorists, where were they when buses got blown up in tel aviv?
so 1939 nazis stand outside jewish shops boycotting in germany
2004 the far left stand outside shops in london boycoting israeli/jewish goods.
that is a scary thing but we are watching everything you guys do and as you know the jews will no be defeated.

...on my part to try and explain. millions wouldn't bother.

'just explain to me in plain english what you mean by 'occupied territory' '

actually, i didn't use the phrase, but since you ask, i mean a territory (i.e. an area of land), that is controlled by a military force without the consent of the local populace.

'you see i have a problem with that. the land you refere to gaza and judea samaria the west bank is in fact not occupied because the so called palestinian people have no history at all of ever coming from that actul area yet jews like my grandparents do,'

that is just wrong. before 1948 palestinian arabs were the majority ethnic population right across modern israel/palestine. if they've got no history there, how did they arrive there, magic? And even if they did, that wouldn't make it not an occupation: the point is that there are people alive today who are being controlled by a hostile and oppressive military force - including you, it seems.

'so if in fact my 98 year old gradpa is a jew from hebron who incidentally had a wife who was shot by arabs in 1928 when arabs killed 800 jews there how is israel occupiing?'

first things first, i'm not convinced about that '800' statistic. esp. if you're refferring to the 1929 Hebron masacres. i've normally heard it as about 50. And don't forget how many jews were saved by hiding in the homes of their palestinian neighbours - which isn't to excuse the killings at all, but does show that attempts to show that therefore palestinians are all bad are wrong.

'excuse my spelling im not english by the way.'

don't worry, your spelling is excellent.

'the fact is the ism support terror you housed the 2 british homocide bombers and corrie and hurndell were helping protect terrorists,'

no we don't and no they weren't. i saw the murders of rachel and tom and can promise you there was no protecting terrorists. just civilian families and small children. even IDF doesn't claim we housed suicide bombers, they wandered in and took tea for 20 minutes. and no they didn't annouce their intentions.

'where were they when buses got blown up in tel aviv?'

do you think that they could have stopped a palestinian suicide bomber on a bus? really?the reason we do what we do isn't just because of blind principle, it's because it works. that is a silly question to ask.

'so 1939 nazis stand outside jewish shops boycotting in germany
2004 the far left stand outside shops in london boycoting israeli/jewish goods.
that is a scary thing but we are watching everything you guys do and as you know the jews will no be defeated.'

i'm sorry it scares you. but it is not true to say that there is a boycott movement against jewish products, only against israeli/zionist ones. clearly, israeli/zionist does equal jewish. don't compare us to the Nazis. like i said, we're the same people who take anti-fascist action: we're out there against the BNP; we're out there against the holocaust denier David Irving - you think that this is some sort of elaborate trick?

1) AM Jewish, sorry if that doesn't fit your prejudices. (Not "self-hating" either by the way. I love my life)

2) Your neanderthal response to other posters proves my point. There's no debating with the very, very thick.

3) The idea that top nazis claim to have Jewish best mates or spouse is borderline psychotic. I don't remember Hitler boasting of his Jewish birds.

4) Please please please go back to Gaza and get shot. It would be the best thing all round.

THE JEWS ARE NOT ISRAEL. ISRAEL IS NOT THE JEWISH PEOPLE.

Victory to the Palestinians/Arabs/whatever the fuck you want to call them!

dan c
if in fact you are a jew then you are no different to the colabaraters of the nazis who gave jews away to save themselves, i am not a zionist wanker in fact i dont even care about the word zionist i am a jew who supports the state of israel .
you see dan if the real nazis ever took over here and dont say it couldnt happen, then there would be 1 safe place as a jew you could go and would welcome you and you know that is israel.
i suggest you go to gaza and walk into one of the towns and announce you are a jew, time yourself on how long it is before you are ripped apart and your blood is on the habds of the locals.
why dont you come to m and s this week and confront me?
id like to speak to you im fascinated on how a jew can turn against his own people.
calling me a wanker is a sign that you are in fact an imature boy and if you really are jewish id love to hear you .
you lot really dont like the fact that jews are standing up and shouting out for once, dosent happen often does it but we are stong .
dan give me your address so i can send you a white feather .

....seeing as just about everybody I see coming out of M&S in Oxford Street is an Arab!!

So Dan C, exactly which great-grandparent of yours was it that once ate a bagel?

.........seeing as just about everybody I see coming out of the M&S in Oxford Street is an Arab!!

So Dan C, which great-grandparent of yours was it that once ate a bagel??