Don't Panic! North korea hit by Nuke?
capt wardrobe | 13.09.2004 01:39
U.S.: Korea Cloud Not From Nuclear Blast [oh really?]
SEOUL, South Korea - A huge mushroom cloud that reportedly billowed up from North Korea (news - web sites) was not caused by a nuclear explosion, South Korean and U.S. officials said Sunday, but they said the cause was a mystery.
Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) confirmed that unusual activity had recently been detected at some of North Korea's atomic sites, but said there was no concrete evidence the North's secretive communist regime was preparing for its first nuclear test explosion.
The South Korean news agency Yonhap reported Sunday that a mammoth explosion in North Korea produced a mushroom cloud more than 2 miles across Thursday. It said the blast was stronger than an April explosion that killed 160 people and injured an estimated 1,300 at a North Korean railway station when a train carrying oil and chemicals apparently hit power lines.
"There was no indication that was a nuclear event of any kind," Powell said of Thursday's incident. "Exactly what it was, we're not sure."
Kim Jong-min, spokesman for the South Korean presidential office, told Yonhap: "Currently, we are trying to find out in detail the exact character, cause and size of the accident, but we don't think North Korea conducted a nuclear test."
China's government, which has the closest relations with North Korea, had no immediate comment about the reported explosion.
Before Yonhap's report, The New York Times' Sunday editions said senior U.S. intelligence officials had seen signs of activities that some analysts thought might indicate North Korea was preparing a nuclear bomb test. Other experts were more cautious in their assessments, but the developments were considered worrisome enough for the White House to be alerted, the Times said.
Appearing on ABC's "This Week," Powell said there were "some activities taking place at some sites that we are watching carefully, but it is not conclusive that they're moving toward a test or they're just doing some maintenance at that site."
Later, on "Fox News Sunday," Powell expressed skepticism North Korea would stage a nuclear test explosion.
The North Koreans "know this would not be a sensible step for them to take," he said. "And it is not just the reaction that they might see in the United States; it's their own neighbors."
On Saturday, North Korea said recent revelations that South Korea (news - web sites) conducted secret nuclear experiments involving uranium and plutonium made the communist state more determined to pursue its own nuclear programs.
The South Korean experiments in 1982 and 2000, which the South said did not reflect an attempt to develop weapons, are likely to further complicate six-nation talks aimed at dismantling North Korea's nuclear development. Another round of talks involving the United States, Russia, Japan, China and the two Koreas is tentatively scheduled this month in Beijing.
Washington is pushing for North Korea to fully disclose all of its nuclear activities and allow outside monitoring before it receives any assistance for its struggling economy. North Korea wants energy aid, an end to economic sanctions and removal from Washington's list of state sponsors of terrorism.
"North Korea is looking for assurances that we're not going to invade it, (that) we have no hostile intent," Powell said. "They're looking for benefits for giving up their nuclear capability and their nuclear infrastructure. And what we're debating is what will it take to give them the assurances they need and what benefits would they expect over the long haul."
But, he said, the United States will not "reward them for doing something they should've have been doing in the first place. So we're into a very intense period of negotiations."
Yonhap said the explosion occurred at 11 a.m. Thursday in Yanggang province near North Korea's border with China.
"We understand that a mushroom-shaped cloud about 3.5 to 4 kilometers (2.1 to 2.5 miles) in diameter was monitored during the explosion," Yonhap quoted an unidentified diplomatic source as saying in Seoul, South Korea's capital.
Yonhap said an unidentified South Korean official reported seismic activity related to two blasts in North Korea at 11 p.m. Wednesday and 1 a.m. Thursday. It said a source in China's capital said the explosion left a crater big enough to be seen by a satellite.
Thursday was the anniversary of North Korea's founding on Sept. 9, 1948 — a date North Korean leader Kim Jong Il uses to stage performances and other events designed to bolster loyalty among his countrymen.
Experts have speculated North Korea might use such a major anniversary to conduct a nuclear-related test, but one analyst said an open-air test, as opposed to one below ground, would be difficult in such a small country.
"It's difficult to say, but it won't be easy for North Korea to conduct a nuclear test without resulting in massive losses of its own people," said Koh Yu-hwan, a North Korea expert in Seoul.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/nkorea_explosion
also see:
http://www.sqlspace.com/viewtopic.php?t=2586
can anyone verify this seismic data?
http://www.mabus.biz/yahoo/nuclear.gif
SEOUL, South Korea - A huge mushroom cloud that reportedly billowed up from North Korea (news - web sites) was not caused by a nuclear explosion, South Korean and U.S. officials said Sunday, but they said the cause was a mystery.
Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) confirmed that unusual activity had recently been detected at some of North Korea's atomic sites, but said there was no concrete evidence the North's secretive communist regime was preparing for its first nuclear test explosion.
The South Korean news agency Yonhap reported Sunday that a mammoth explosion in North Korea produced a mushroom cloud more than 2 miles across Thursday. It said the blast was stronger than an April explosion that killed 160 people and injured an estimated 1,300 at a North Korean railway station when a train carrying oil and chemicals apparently hit power lines.
"There was no indication that was a nuclear event of any kind," Powell said of Thursday's incident. "Exactly what it was, we're not sure."
Kim Jong-min, spokesman for the South Korean presidential office, told Yonhap: "Currently, we are trying to find out in detail the exact character, cause and size of the accident, but we don't think North Korea conducted a nuclear test."
China's government, which has the closest relations with North Korea, had no immediate comment about the reported explosion.
Before Yonhap's report, The New York Times' Sunday editions said senior U.S. intelligence officials had seen signs of activities that some analysts thought might indicate North Korea was preparing a nuclear bomb test. Other experts were more cautious in their assessments, but the developments were considered worrisome enough for the White House to be alerted, the Times said.
Appearing on ABC's "This Week," Powell said there were "some activities taking place at some sites that we are watching carefully, but it is not conclusive that they're moving toward a test or they're just doing some maintenance at that site."
Later, on "Fox News Sunday," Powell expressed skepticism North Korea would stage a nuclear test explosion.
The North Koreans "know this would not be a sensible step for them to take," he said. "And it is not just the reaction that they might see in the United States; it's their own neighbors."
On Saturday, North Korea said recent revelations that South Korea (news - web sites) conducted secret nuclear experiments involving uranium and plutonium made the communist state more determined to pursue its own nuclear programs.
The South Korean experiments in 1982 and 2000, which the South said did not reflect an attempt to develop weapons, are likely to further complicate six-nation talks aimed at dismantling North Korea's nuclear development. Another round of talks involving the United States, Russia, Japan, China and the two Koreas is tentatively scheduled this month in Beijing.
Washington is pushing for North Korea to fully disclose all of its nuclear activities and allow outside monitoring before it receives any assistance for its struggling economy. North Korea wants energy aid, an end to economic sanctions and removal from Washington's list of state sponsors of terrorism.
"North Korea is looking for assurances that we're not going to invade it, (that) we have no hostile intent," Powell said. "They're looking for benefits for giving up their nuclear capability and their nuclear infrastructure. And what we're debating is what will it take to give them the assurances they need and what benefits would they expect over the long haul."
But, he said, the United States will not "reward them for doing something they should've have been doing in the first place. So we're into a very intense period of negotiations."
Yonhap said the explosion occurred at 11 a.m. Thursday in Yanggang province near North Korea's border with China.
"We understand that a mushroom-shaped cloud about 3.5 to 4 kilometers (2.1 to 2.5 miles) in diameter was monitored during the explosion," Yonhap quoted an unidentified diplomatic source as saying in Seoul, South Korea's capital.
Yonhap said an unidentified South Korean official reported seismic activity related to two blasts in North Korea at 11 p.m. Wednesday and 1 a.m. Thursday. It said a source in China's capital said the explosion left a crater big enough to be seen by a satellite.
Thursday was the anniversary of North Korea's founding on Sept. 9, 1948 — a date North Korean leader Kim Jong Il uses to stage performances and other events designed to bolster loyalty among his countrymen.
Experts have speculated North Korea might use such a major anniversary to conduct a nuclear-related test, but one analyst said an open-air test, as opposed to one below ground, would be difficult in such a small country.
"It's difficult to say, but it won't be easy for North Korea to conduct a nuclear test without resulting in massive losses of its own people," said Koh Yu-hwan, a North Korea expert in Seoul.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/nkorea_explosion also see:
http://www.sqlspace.com/viewtopic.php?t=2586 can anyone verify this seismic data?
http://www.mabus.biz/yahoo/nuclear.gif
capt wardrobe
Comments
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oh...i'm sorry it was 4 DAYS AGO!!!
13.09.2004 01:56
UK minister demands explanation of apparent blast
Justin McCurry in Tokyo and Julian Borger in Washington
Monday September 13, 2004
The Guardian
The United States and Britain were last night trying to discover the cause of a huge mushroom cloud spotted over North Korea.
US officials played down fears that it might have come from a nuclear test. However, the White House was reported to have received an intelligence briefing that Pyongyang could be preparing to carry out a test. Such a move would throw the region and US foreign policy into crisis at the climax of the election campaign.
Bush administration officials have still to establish whether the 2.5-mile-wide cloud, seen in satellite pictures four days ago, was the result of an explosion or natural disaster.
"There are all kinds of reports and there are all kinds of assessments that are going on," Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser, told CNN yesterday. "Maybe it was a forest fire of some kind. But we don't believe at this point that it was a nuclear event."
However, according to the South Korean media, the cloud was caused by a blast that rocked an area in the north-eastern county Kimhyungjik, near the Chinese border, last Thursday, the 56th anniversary of communist North Korea's foundation.
It appeared to be much more powerful than the accidental explosion at Ryongchon railway station in April, which killed at least 170 people. A spokesman in the South Korean presidential office was quoted as saying: "We are trying to find out in detail the exact character, cause and size of the accident, but we don't think North Korea conducted a nuclear test."
Nuclear experts said such a test would have been very easy to detect, adding that it was unlikely North Korea would have let off an above-ground atomic blast so close to China.
Several other explanations have been offered, including a failed test of a conventional missile. It happened in a highland area known to house ballistic missile launch sites.
But last night Colin Powell, the US secretary of state, said: "There was no indication that it was a nuclear event of any kind. Exactly what it was, we're not sure."
News of the explosion came as Bill Rammell, a junior Foreign Office minister, arrived in North Korea to discuss its nuclear weapons programme. He demanded an "immediate explanation" for the blast and will raise the issue at a meeting with Pyongyang's foreign minister today.
North Korea said at the weekend that last week's admission by the South that it had secretly produced small quantities of uranium and plutonium had made it even more determined to continue its own nuclear arms programme.
The news of the mushroom cloud coincided with a report in the New York Times yesterday that President George Bush had received recent intelligence reports indicating unusual activity around suspected North Korean test sites.
Some observers interpreted the activity as a prelude to a nuclear test.
The newspaper quoted an unnamed US administration official as saying the likelihood of a test had risen significantly in the past month.
Responding to the reports, Ms Rice said: "We're certainly watching certain indicators to see whether it looks like a routine activity or whether something more is going on, but it would obviously not be smart for the North Koreans to test."
Ms Rice added that if the North Korean leadership were "somehow trying to gain negotiating leverage, or their own October surprise ... they would simply isolate themselves even further".
An "October surprise" is the term used in US politics for a shock event deliberately timed to have an impact on the November presidential election.
The US, along with South Korea, China, Japan and Russia, is trying to persuade Pyongyang to give up its nuclear ambitions. North Korea has threatened to stay away from a fourth round of multiparty talks later this year.
In October 2002, US officials alleged that the North had admitted secretly developing a uranium-based nuclear programme, in breach of a 1994 agreement to freeze nuclear-related activities.
Pyongyang denied the charge, but last year claimed to have reprocessed 8,000 spent fuel rods for plutonium-based weapons.
Forest Fire?
US Psyops?
Election shaker?
whaddya reckon?
a worried capt wardrobe
remember Iraq intellince?
13.09.2004 02:02
according to Sunday’s New York Times, US intelligence has picked up suspicious movements of materials around several locations deep inside North Korea that US analysts believe could eventually become nuclear test sites.
so if the iraq intelligence assesment by 'Colon' powell was anything to go by...
it was an ice cream van fitted with flashing rayguns!
capt wardrobe
Just FYI (other sources)
13.09.2004 13:41
News media here in the US are reporting "no evidence of a nuclear signature". Do you have reason to beleive that the US, chomping at the bit to badmouth North Korea, would choose to cover up for that regieme?
North Korea HAS explained the event as a large "conventional" explosion related to a "mountiantop removal" associated with a major hydroelectic project. For those who doubt the reasonableness of that..........
1) For "pumped storage" you need a large resevoir high up. I used to live in PA where "Sunfish Pond" in the Poconos Mtns was used that way (it's actuially on the NJ side of the Deleware) and now I live in MA where there is "Northfield Mt". USUALLY here they take a high up natural pond and increase its size with minor damming. Presumably there was no significant natural pond on the top of this Korean mountain?
2) Conventional explosions can easily be on the scale of atom bombs in terms of blast. This being a British site, you should know about what happened during WW I in Halifax N.S. when the "Mt Blanc" carrying 3000 tons of explosives was in collision and went up alongside the docks (taking out much of Halifax). Remember that we measure atom bombs in "kilotons" and that the first two (and only) atom bombs dropped were around 10 kilotons. Halifax suffered a 3 kiloton blast.
So the North Koreans could indeed used a couple thousand tons, say ammonium nitrate plus fule oil (blasting slurry) to create a mountiantop pond and by the dust cloud rasied this would look "atomic" (but NOT by "signature")
Mike
e-mail:
stepbystepfarm mtdata.com
No Evidence ??
13.09.2004 17:27
"Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser, told CNN yesterday. "Maybe it was a forest fire of some kind." Since when did forest fire's produce mushroom clouds? She's choosing a ridiculous explanation over an obvious one.
"Do you have reason to beleive that the US, chomping at the bit to badmouth North Korea, would choose to cover up for that regieme?" Yeah, for election purposes perhaps. Or maybe some other reason such as keeping the focus on countries that have oil to steal instead.
Lying is second nature to politicians so I would trust a word they say. Best to keep an open mind on it.
steve
Since when
14.09.2004 00:39
Anytime you burn a FOREST. Yeah I know, not something you'd be likely to see in Britain where your remaining forests aren't much bigger than my backyard woodlot. But over here, get a good hot forest fire concentrated on a couple square miles and yes, you get a "mushroom cloud" (hell, you can get hurricain force winds "indraft")
Folks, the mushroom cloud isn't particularly nuclear, it's a HEAT phenomenon. Atomic bombs prodcue a great deal of heat so you get a mushroom cloud. But so does ANY major source of heat. A volcanic eruption does it. A larage fire does it -- in still weather, not much in the way of cross winds, you can get one from a decent sized factory fire in a city, doesn't take square miles of forest necessarily.
Conventional explosives also release a great deal of heat. Set off a few hundred tons of blasting slurry (maybe even a couple thousand tons and thus completely comparable to a small abomb) and you most certainly get a mushroom cloud. Back in WWI when the small frieghter Mt Blanc loaded with about 3000 tons went off in Halifax harbor taking out most of Halifax I asure you there was a mushroom cloud. The report here is that the North Koreans were blasting off the top of a mountain in connection with a hydro-electic project. That might seem even stranger to you, ain't no rivers on top of mountains. But yes, it makes sense if they were constructing a "pumped storage" facility > for which you need a pond on top of a mountain to store power until needed at peak usage times. Around here they are usually "enhanced" natural ponds > Anyway, it's sort of like a "battery", storing energy in the form of water pumped into a pond way uphill whichc can be drawn upon to supply power during peak demand.
Mike
e-mail:
stepbystpefarm mtdata.com