Friday 4th June 2004 :
Former German Defense Minister Confirms CIA Involvement in 9/11: Alex Jones Interviews Andreas Von B
Please understand that this is a transcript made directly from a live radio interview. It may not conform to exeplary standards of grammar. Mr. Von Buelow's first language is German.
Alex Jones: All right my friends. We are already into the third and final hour of this global transmission against tyranny. And, in the last hour we had Hutton Gibson, expert on the New World Order and of course father of Mel Gibson, on talking about the different key issues. In this hour, we are joined by Andreas von Bulow and he was the federal Minister of Defense, or the equivalent of our Secretary of Defense, been in the German government since the 70s. And up until just a few years ago he was also the Minister of Technology and he has written a book that according to Reuters is the best seller in Germany that translates into ‘9 11 and the CIA.’ And he’s not the only German minister who has said we are looking at world fascism here and a powerful military industrial complex institution engineering terror attacks to scare us into submission. And, Andre von Bulow, err Andreas von Bulow, we are so honored to have a man of your stature and obvious intelligence and your courage on this show. Thank you for joining us.
Andreas von Bulow: Hello and it’s wonderful speaking, yes.
AJ: Uh, we’re going to break here in a few minutes and come back in a longer segment but for those who just joined us, tell us a little bit more about yourself and your book please.
AvB: Well I...I have spent over twenty-five years in politics and now I am out. And in the end I was Minister of Technology before I was Secretary of Defense. Then I had to deal in a commission on East-West transactions about the secret service of East Germany. And this was very interesting inside story because of the Western side doing deals violating the laws in Eastern Eur, err, East Germany, European Community and the United States. It was always two parts dealing with East and West and this bought me a lot of insights in the secret service business.
AJ: And in fact I remember reading about the huge investigations you did that was massive international headlines concerning the Stasi and how different governments had actually been working with these people. If you would like you are of course welcome to get into that as well. Again folks, the equivalent secretary of defense, minister of defense of Germany, and of course technology, the head of that. Just absolutely amazing. Your best selling book, and I wish there was an English translation because I would certainly buy one. My wife does read German. But please, tell us about your book.
AvB: Well I was writing another book and then 9 11 happened. And it was strange to me watching- we all were horrified what was going on and said well that’s impossible, how could a crew of people manage do such horrible things? At the first hours, we didn’t know who was it, then within hours it came out that probably Usama bin Laden and Al Qaeda was behind it. And then within two or three days these 19 people came out. And my objection was- my looking at it- to whom does it bring good? And I found out that it is rather damaging to the Islamic world and perhaps it might be not only be a terrorist attack but perhaps it might be a covert operation. I watched the scenery, what was going on, what the American government-
AJ: Minister, minister, we’ve got to break; we’ll be back in three minutes. Absolutely, we’ll go into this in great detail. We are honored to have you. We’re talking to Andreas von Bulow. We’ll be back. (Fade to bumper music)
AJ: That’s right my friends it’s eight minutes ten seconds into this 3rd hour of global transmission. I am so honored to have on Andreas von Bulow former German defense minister, head of their defense department and of course until just a few years ago, head of their technology system which is, that is a very high level post, just as high level as defense minister there in Deutschland. And he’s written a best selling book and I’ve read some quotes out of it that have been translated into English. And the title translated is ‘911 and the CIA.’ And he lays out the evidence of the military-industrial complex carrying out the attacks. Also we have lined up Michael Micher. And he of course was the English environmental minister who resigned over Tony Blair’s fraud. He has written articles saying that if they didn’t carry it out, they certainly funded and allowed them to take place. So, if you’ve got a brain, it’s clear, and Mr. von Bulow, very intelligent individual has gone over this. So, sir, you’ve said that on the day of the event you began to look at it, you began to research it. And, from your specific expertise in intelligence and military and technology, you know heading up entire sectors of the world’s third largest economy. Please discuss for us your research and how you wrote the book and what really happened on 9 11.
AvB: Err, 9 11, I just watched the scenery. And I said there must have- gone something very [wrong]. I watched the TV for example and in the same minute that the TV showed the planes driving into the World Trade Center, you found these Palestinians dancing and laughing. And a few days later one could find out that this was fake. It was made by a TV crew of the defense ministry in Israel and they gave candies to the people and they laughed about it. And, nobody told it. And the question for me was who brought this TV stuff right in time into the national networks like CNN and CBS and so on and so on. And then we look for the, the story came out that this had been done by bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda and these 19 people of Muslim background, which did this. And you could watch the Persian journalist, and nobody showed up. Not one Arabic name was showing up there. And then one is interested to see video because all these 19 passengers must have passed the video, a lot of video cameras in Dallas, and New York, and Logan in Boston, and Portland in the North. You don’t get this stuff. And then we’re looking for the black boxes and we don’t get them. And the story how these, these World Trade Center buildings broke down, they were constructed against an approach by airplanes. And, the firemen of New York, they were able to come to the floor where the fires were burning, and they said, the fire commander said he needed two teams, small, to fight these fires and then it’s finished. So the heat, it is impossible that the heat was as high as it has been written in the papers and in all the media. AJ: And then, and then the feds declared that all firefighter tapes malfunctioned, turns out that wasn’t true; we’ve got copies of them. And it did say that the firefighters said the fires were out or almost out. There is video of people standing in the holes of the buildings with no fire around them. And we’re going to go over the evidence that’s in your book, sir, and why you came to these educated conclusions.
AvB: Yeah. AJ: But, first I want to ask you: have you heard the new developments, the owner of the World Trade Center slipped up on TV and said that they blew Building Seven up. The forty-seven story building that wasn’t even hit by an aircraft. This just broke two weeks ago, have you heard this? AvB: Sure, I have heard this. I follow the whole scenery. Normally, it’s coming out in Germany, but it’s coming out in your country. It’s a fascinating background to, to do research via Internet because all this stuff is broadly spread over the Internet. So it’s very easy to follow, but in the main media you don’t get to hear about this.
AJ: Well tell you what, later this hour, it’s only three minutes of audio clips, we will air from the PBS documentary ‘America Rebuilding,’ where they admit they blew up WTC 7. Now, that’s important because they said that building fell from fire even though it wasn’t hit by a plane. And now, he slips up and says we decided to demolish it on 9-11, but then the mainstream media just ignores that. This is a public admission, sir.
AvB: Yeah, yeah especially that the CIA headquarters in New York was in, was within this building. I think the- how do you call it- the emergency center for the governor, the major, err, mayor was-
AJ: Mayor and governor.
AvB: -mayor was in this building. So, it was not hit by a plane, and the fire was very low. And the surrounding steel constructions were left over and didn’t collapse. But, the Building 7 collapsed in late afternoon at 5 o’ clock I think.
AJ: Well, from our internal sources, they were running the attacks sir, out of the building and so conveniently got rid of the evidence in one fell swoop. AvB: This is one theory, it might be. It’s convincing but one has to get the whole proof. But the problem is that the elements for proof are destroyed.
AJ: Also- AvB: You will find them in Japanese cars and in ships of the American Navy.
AJ: Also, sir, we have NORAD standing down for an hour and twenty five minutes but when we had the golfer Payne Stewart went off course for fifteen minutes, he was surrounded in eighteen minutes by five F-16s so why did NORAD stand down? AvB: Well, this is a big question because it happened in 2001 more than 60 times. That, fighter[s] went up to clear what has been done to airplanes that showed some irregularities. At 9 11, four planes for two hours were able to drive around, fly around even one hour in the direction going toward the west and then turn around and then comeback. The military air force was not able to interdict them. It’s [un]imaginable. And the whole story is totally unclear what happened between the Federal Aviation Agency (Administration) and NORAD.
AJ: Absolutely, now I don’t know if you’ve seen the associated press but the CIA was running a drill 15 miles from the World Trade Center that day of flying jets into buildings in New York and DC. My internal sources inside the Pentagon, the lawyers who represent them have said on this show that they were told to stand down because it was quote ‘just a drill.’ That’s how you get the good military to stand down; you tell them it’s just a drill. And, that drill was going on at 830 in the morning. Is that not obvious, sir?
AvB: It’s quite obvious, yeah. It’s quite, it’s so strange and the most strange thing for me is that after two years you don’t have a white book which is documenting everything. If you are looking for the timetable for example you have to make a medium between two or three or five newspapers and radio and TV announcements. So everything is unclear. On the other hand, the American government is running as the call it a world war against possibly sixty nations without really showing the background of 9/11. It’s- for me, it’s impossible.
AJ: Now by that they admit that nine of the nineteen hijackers, the BBC says seven but it’s nine, are still alive. Bin Laden has not been convicted, bin Laden is known CIA, you’ve got [George H. W.] Bush meeting with the head bin Laden that morning in DC at the Ritz Carleton, you’ve got the General of Pakistan, the head of their intelligence, meeting with the House and Senate chairs of the intelligence committee at 8:30 that morning, his second trip in his life to the United States. You’ve got the FBI paying for the houses, the cars, the credit cards of the supposed hijackers. I mean, sir, you start- you’ve got public officials, Mayor Willie Brown, Joint Chiefs of Staff told not to fly to New York that day. That’s all admitted; what do you say to that?
AvB: Well, it’s all admitted. So for me, since the official version- it’s not credible at all, it’s totally incredible. The second solution for me is a covert operation. And this is a way to influence, to brainwash the American people into long, long, ongoing conflict with the Muslim world and all that you get to, for example the oil companies, the last oil reserves which we need for the next decades before the oil age is going out. And probably behind this is a geopolitical thinking that finally China has to be taken out. China is too big and you have to be able to- this is put down in the New American Century, which has been written by a lot of people who are now in government like Cheney, like Rumsfeld and others.
AJ: And now, sir, we’ve got to break. We’re going to get into the Project for a New American Century and Operation Northwoods. Were you aware of a US government plan to carry out 9 11 style attacks?
AvB: You mean, Northwoods?
AJ: Yes, sir.
AvB: Yeah sure I know.
AJ: Is that not a key piece of evidence?
AvB: Well, this is a key piece, a key piece of evidence of the thinking of probably the military in dialogue with politics. Probably, I think Kennedy decided not to do it but I think it was, it was all of the-
AJ: Tell you what, stay there. We’ve got to break; we’ll be right back folks. (Fade to music)
AJ: All right my friends, I’m Alex Jones your host. For the rest of the hour we are honored to have Andreas von Bulow, former Defense Secretary and former head of technology, Department of Technology in Germany. And he’s just gotten out of government a few years ago and he’s just written a best selling book ‘9 11 and the CIA’ and we have info on that at Infowars.com and PrisonPlanet.com. We will also be posting this interview on the Website in the next few days as well. There are so many facets to this- Mr. von Bulow, continuing with you waking up to what happened on 9 11 and researching it, what are some of the other key points that clearly show that it is impossible that these nineteen people did this; we know that is a fraud. It is a conspiracy theory to say that they did it alone. From your intensive research and your understanding of high-level government activities, what do you think really happened on 9 11?
AvB: Well, nobody can prove what happened 9 11 directly because it has been a covert operation and you don’t find proof; you will find only indications. And one of the indications- the indication that everything is right with these nineteen people and Usama bin Laden is that the government is free to show all the prove that is on the table that is on the street that lays on the ground of the World Trade Center and so on and so on. If you have a covert operation the probability is always that the leftover pieces of proof are taken away immediately and a lot of secrecy, a band of secrecy, has taken over everything. And, this has happened with 9 11.
AJ: And that also happened- where you aware the New York Times and Chicago Tribune reported this in ‘93, the FBI cooked the bomb and trained the driver[s] and had an Egyptian security agent doing it for them, had two retarded Muslims, literally retarded, drive the truck and park it, let the bombing go forward. At Oklahoma City, the same company that destroyed the remnants of the World Trade Center, blew up the remnants of Oklahoma City [and] had that buried under machine gun guard at a private landfill to this day. And they hauled the rubble away from the W T C to China! They wouldn’t let you take photographs. Yes, exactly.
AvB: Yeah, then at the beginning the engineers weren’t allowed to go up to the steel truss [debris] and had a lot of problems- there was very scarce money. And you know, to clear up the story with Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky, the Republican majority gave out sixty million dollars, I think it’s seventy now, and they started out with 600 000 dollars to try to figure out what happened on 9 11. And, they were taken away from doing research and so on and so on and they are upset. And, Fire Engineer Magazine said it was totally unbelievable what happened with this examination of 9 11.
AJ: Well, they say it was a criminal cover up and now, sir, we’ve turned into a police state. They can secretly arrest citizens, secretly execute us. They are building admitted prison camps all over the country, this is in our news. We’re turning into something like the Soviet Union here.
AvB: Well, I can’t comment on this but what’s going on in Guantanamo is like that. I think the problem is that if you put people, who ever you like in Guantanamo in Cuba, you take them away for one or two years without letting a lawyer to them, without showing them what you are reprising to them, without having contact from their family- they tell in all court processes what the FBI is wanting from them-
AJ: Well, sir-
AvB: And so you get fake evidence from these kinds of people, if you behave like that.
AJ: And sir, sir. Our mainstream news says that torture is good and they say they are torturing people, that’s the Washington Post. Is that a concern that our government now admits it’s torturing?
AvB: Well, I’m informed- I don’t know whether they are torturing, keeping them is a kind of a torture, but I am told there is an agreement with a lot of states to put these people to Egypt and other states where torture is accepted and is done and you get the final outcome of this torture and you can produce this in front of German courts and American courts and try to bring about final judgment.
AJ: Well that’s it. We’ll be back; long segment coming up and we’ll get more into your book. We’re honored to have you, Andreas von Bulow. Stay with us. (Fade)
AJ: All right folks. We’re talking with Andreas von Bulow and to make this clear, up until about two years ago he was the head minister over the Department of Technology and before that he was the head of his party’s group on defense. Now, we’re going to take calls coming up here in just a few minutes, your chance to talk to Andreas von Bulow and the toll free number to join us on air is 1 800 259 9231. And if you read German, speak German, you can go online just type into a search engine or go to the Website and link though and buy a copy of ‘9 11 and the CIA.’ Now, if you want my videos, 9 11 Road to Tyranny, Masters of Terror, my book ‘9 11 Descent into Tyranny,’ go to Infowars.com, go to PrisonPlanet.com and get them. This story is so important that I authorize you to make copies of my films for not for profit, not for sale educational purposes. I want you to get them, I want you to make copies, I want you to put them on the Internet. If you’ve done that, I want you to air them on local community television stations which has happened on over four hundred now. Go to Infowars.com, PrisonPlanet.com, get 9 11 Road to Tyranny, get Masters of Terror, get my book ‘Descent into Tyranny,’ get Paul Watson’s book ‘Order Out of Chaos’ that I’ve published, they’re excellent. The toll free number to order is 1 888 253 3139. Because, if we don’t expose the Globalists who clearly carried the attacks out, they’re going to carry out more terror. And, they are setting up this police state; the survival of America and frankly the world is at stake because if the Globalists can use our military as their arm to attack sixty-three countries, it’s over. So again, that’s 1 888 253 3139. The films are 25.95 a piece, twenty buck if you buy three or more, my book is twelve dollars. Again: Inforwars.com or ‘net or 1 888 253 3139. Now, going back to Andreas von Bulow, sir, we were talking during the break and I said what are some of the other key points that you would like to go over. You mentioned the CIA and insider trading and the Anthrax attacks. Please discuss it.
AvB: Well, the insider trading, everybody knows that there [was] news about insider trading. I think altogether fifteen billion dollars. And, there was speculation about going down, of United Airlines and American Airlines; both airlines which were attacked by 9 11 and other things. So, normally you could find out because I think the American- the CIA together with the financial department, the Treasury, they developed this - watching the markets to find out speculation about going on terrorist attacks. So, they could immediately find out if there were something going on- and they could find out. And, in this case, they- 9 11- the NSA people which are the guys watching via satellites the whole of the transactions going on, on Earth, they said, they told the people to destroy the tapes. They had tapes about this interior trading and they said they had to destroy them so they are not any longer proof.
AJ: Now again, interior trading that’s a good term for it, insider trading. So again, insider trading or interior trading going on here and fifteen billion dollars, I think that’s a low estimate. It came out the first week, Germany reported on it, France reported on it, the US, ‘we’re going to catch them!’ Record put options against United and American; not against other airlines but specifically against these and it leads back to the CIA and suddenly they destroy the evidence. Again, again another smoking gun. Then, you get into anthrax attacks; Bush on Cipro, the most weaponized anthrax ever seen. Tell us about that.
AvB: Well, there the question just is who has the responsibility for this! You know, it overlaid the whole public debate of what was the background and reason for 9 11 for weeks because these attacks were going on for weeks and weeks and weeks. And, finally nothing came out. We have no report on who was responsible, who did it and this again is amazing. I think it belongs probably to the cover up of the psychological cover-up of the whole scenery. And then, the vice-President and the President asking Congress not to go into too much detail about the background of 9 11. What does this mean? And until now it’s what the President knew before 9 11 is a total secret. I think there is no secret service around the world which gave no hints to the American secret service community, the CIA, the DIA and so on and so on. They did nothing out of it. The most disturbing thing is that these guys that knew about something in coming up 9 11, were cutout before. I mean the local level of the FBI offices, they knew quite a lot and they tried to force the central organization to go into the details about Arabs taking lessons in flight schools and so on. And, the guy who decided on top, I think the second man who was in the FBI he [said] ‘no we don’t do this’ and he got promoted after 9 11.
AJ: By the way, the US embassies that allowed supposed Al- Qaeda back in got record cash bonuses. The FBI agents who ordered other FBI agents not to stop Al-Qaeda, they go bonuses. Bush signed W199I months before 9 11 ordering FBI not to stop Al-Qaeda. They threatened to arrest FBI Robert Wright if he tells us what he knows. I’ve interviewed his lawyer David Schippers who knew about the attacks beforehand. He went to Bush; Bush wouldn’t talk to him, Ashcroft wouldn’t talk to him. And you said something very astute, sir, you talked about the anthrax being a psychological cover-up of the scenery. That is, all these questions coming out in the early days about 9 11 got blacked out by the anthrax attacks and that’s absolutely why that happened. We’ve tracked that back to Fort Detrick, Maryland. And they said it wasn’t weaponized anthrax, it turned out it was the most weaponized ever seen.
AvB: Yeah, that’s absolutely correct and the wars which were reasoned to be fights against terrorism, the war against Afghanistan to put out the Taliban it was decided long before and I think in June before 9 11. The Afghanistan government- no, the Pakistan government and the Indian government [were] told there would be an intervention in October.
AJ: Also, 44 000 US troops, 18 000 US troops were in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, Bush had the battle launch orders on his desk two days before 9 11.
AvB: That’s exact, that’s exactly-
AJ: And sir, I want to digress back to torture for a minute because you have been, you’ve impressed by, I mean you know so much about this, you’ve researched it so well- On the torture issue, General Rick Baucus quit Guantanamo because he quote ‘refused to torture the people there’ and the CIA section chief bragged in the Washington Post that they fly them to foreign countries and then the CIA tortures them themselves so they do admit the torture.
AvB: (Pause) Sure. I can’t comment on this [but] it’s obvious; all the court proceedings against for example against Moussaui I think it was the 20th nominally- it was supposed in each aircraft to have five hijackers and this one was taken into prison by the FBI. I think the process was made in Alexandria, Virginia and I think the judge said that if you don’t give the proof [of] these guys who are running Al- Qaeda and give these people for cross-examination then I can deliver a judgment. The same is true in Germany; we have people who are related to Al-Qaeda-and probably Al-Qaeda is an artificial, err, [de]nomination of-
AJ: CIA fiction.
AvB:- a ruse of elements of Islamic people. In Hamburg, the trials are failing because the American government is not delivering the proof.
AJ: Absolutely and look, we’ve had military officers and many others on, it is clear that Al Qaeda is a CIA creation. A foggy boogie man so the military-industrial complex can carry out attacks and then pin it on them and I mean we know when bin Laden blows up a building supposedly, our government pays his family to rebuild it.
AJ: I mean there’s the payoff right out in the open.
AvB: Yeah, the whole background of- the whole personalities like bin Laden, like Al Qaeda, like Taliban, even Saddam Hussein, these are all figures that were handled by the CIA in former times. So probably they are recycled in the system now as bad guys. Before, they were the good guys taking away the Russians out of Afghanistan and dealing with this, getting money for this, getting paid for this now they are used as bad guys. Usama bin Laden has been, in ’95, in the Balkans in an operation the Americans were with the UKG in Albania. You find these guys all over; you find these guys in Chechnya for example. There are also ‘former Afghanis’ as they are called and they are [driven] in loaded planes of the CIA for example.
AJ: Absolutely so they provide the crisis so Big Brother could provide the police state solution. Andreas von Bulow it is clear that if we do not expose at least who stands to gain from this terror and who was involved in it, that is the large financial interests that own our government, they are going to be able to use America as the engine of quote imperial mobilization and world domination. As Zbigniew Brzezinski and the PNAC documents said, how important is it to expose this for the future of free humanity?
AvB: I think it’s, for everybody outside of the United States it’s extremely important because it’s a question of whether democracy will survive and whether the state of law is kept up or we’ll be driven by public relations and financial interest. And I think the main thing for the Americans is who pays for all this. Because, if the oil companies get more cheap oil and make their money out of it, the American taxpayer has to pay for the military machine. The oil companies aren’t paying for that. It’s not the military-industrial complex paying for that, it is the American taxpayer so it’s extremely important.
AJ: Absolutely and now we are paying record amounts for fuel for petrol in this country while they have record supplies and the oil companies are posting record profits. I want to get into W T C 7 because I want people to hear these clips. These are from the PBS documentary, and this will just take a minute sir, and then I want to get your comment on it, where they describe how Building 7 fell and how they removed it first because quote ‘nobody died in it.’ It’s the owner, Larry Silverstein who pulled it, gave the order to demolish it on the afternoon of September 11th, so, Mark, go ahead and hit that clip for us please.
PBS Documentary (narrator): World Trade Center 7 had always been considered the starting point for rebuilding. Located north of the slurry wall, Building 7 had been cleared faster than the rest of the site. There had been no bodies to recover. Pelted by debris when the North Tower collapsed, Seven burned into the late afternoon allowing occupants to evacuate to safety.
PBS Documentary (Silverstein): I remember getting a call from the, err, Fire Department commander telling me that they were not sure they would be able to contain the fire. I thought we had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do was, was pull it, and they made the decision to pull and we watched the building collapse.
AJ: We made the decision to pull, and we watched the building collapse. Now here’s Dan Rather, seconds after it collapses and this is what Dan Rather had to say and then we’ll get von Bulow’s comment.
(Voice of Dan Rather): What you are seeing are high shots, now here we’re going to show you a videotape of the collapse itself. Now we go to videotape of the collapse of this building. (Associate- ‘it’s amazing’) Amazing, incredible, pick your word. For the third time today, it’s reminiscent of those pictures we’ve all seen too much on television before when a building was destroyed by well-placed dynamite to knock it down.
AJ: Now, again, the seismographs show multiple explosions, the firefighters were told to get back. Von Bulow, how important is this piece of evidence?
AvB: The explosions, well the government has to explain it! They have to prove their case. They have to this conspiracy theory that these nineteen Muslims under the direction of Usama bin Laden. It’s not my business; it’s only ‘if there are explosions, if it’s true, can it be that the heat out of kerosene is able to destroy these huge buildings in a manner that they are collapsing in a…
AvB: …free-fall in a very short- in a few seconds, that they broke together. It’s nearly impossible. So everything that is on the table is telling that the government story is not true. And there must be another story and it must be explosions and the spikes in geological institutions in five states, 2.2 on the Richter scale, you have to find out what’s the background. And five or seven days later the temperature on the ground was five hundred degrees, or a little bit more than 450, if just fires were-
AJ: We’ve got to break. We’ll be right back.
AJ: We’re talking with Andreas von Bulow. Former minister at the highest levels of the German government. Former Technology Minister. And I know we have a lot of callers but we only have time to take maybe one or two, Dan in Oklahoma. I just want to commend Andreas von Bulow for writing this book 9 11 and the CIA and I would hope a publisher would get a hold of it and translate it and publish it here because I would definitely carry it. You can find information on the book for those who read and speak German at Infowars.com and PrisonPlanet.com. Andreas von Bulow let’s take a call, let’s talk to Dan in Oklahoma. Dan, you’re on the air go ahead.
Dan: Yes, thanks Alex. Mr. von Bulow my question is following this disaster of 9 1 1, I understand Germany, France, and Russia and why they didn’t want to get involved because of the money they had invested with Iraq. With the military-industrial complex like it is, what do you understand the New World Order to be especially since they said they could us this event to-
AJ: Yes, who are, who are the forces behind government-sponsored terror?
AvB: Who are the forces behind government? I do not understand this.
AJ: Well we know this global government is forming. We know that powerful financial interests are engineering terror attacks, who are the forces behind the military industrial complex?
AvB: Well, it’s always interesting. If you look at who owns the munitions factory in the East-West conflict or the Near-East conflict, they are always trying to sell their material to both sides. And, they are always interested in conflict and they would like after the breakdown of the Soviet Union, the noble thing would be to cut down this military-industrial complex, which costs the American taxpayer a huge amount of money. Exactly the same time the Soviet Union breaks down, this new terror thing comes up. The first terrorist attacks were I think the World Trade Center one and you find out the leading guy of this bombing, this time an agricultural bomb, he was going immediately to FBI and saying ‘I’ll tell you everything about this’ and they agreed finally twenty-four hours before the attack in 1993, they would change the powder, the dangerous powder against the [non] dangerous powder and the FBI didn’t come up to do this so-
AJ: Yeah, they cooked the bomb and trained the drivers and that’s another patsy.
AvB:-people were [injured] and six people were dead. In Oklahoma you had nearly the same thing. You had two attacks. One was perhaps McViegh and this other guy but there was another attack much more strong than this agricultural bomb and there is an American general, an Air Force general who for I think ten years or fifteen years in charge of this explosive institute and he said never could this agrarian bomb bring about such damage. There must be something else and they found that within the building there were demolition charges.
AJ: Absolutely, Dan thanks for the call. I hope we can get you on in the future again, Andreas von Bulow, you’ve been so kind. You have such amazing courage to stand up and tell the truth and we’ve been honored to have you on the show from Germany. God bless you.
AvB: Thank you.
AJ: Thank you very much and have a good evening.
In the military’s own investigation into prisoner abuse, Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba said efforts to hide prisoners from the Red Cross were “deceptive” and a “violation of international law.”
Pentagon officials claim it’s entirely lawful to hold prisoners in secret if they pose an immediate threat. But today, nearly one year after his capture, he’s still being held incommunicado.
Judge orders U.S. to turn over prisoner records Jurist cites government for moving at ‘glacial pace’
The Associated Press
Updated: 5:55 p.m. ET Sept. 15, 2004
NEW YORK - Suggesting the government was acting as if it had something to hide, a federal judge Wednesday gave Washington one month to release records related to the treatment of prisoners in Iraq.
U.S. District Judge Alvin Hellerstein chastised officials for moving at a “glacial pace” in responding to nearly year-old Freedom of Information Act requests from the American Civil Liberties Union and four other watchdog organizations.
“If the documents are more of an embarrassment than a secret, the public should know of our government’s treatment of individuals captured and held abroad,” Hellerstein wrote. “We are a nation that strives to value the dignity of all humanity.”
The groups brought a lawsuit in June, saying they wanted to expose the treatment of prisoners.
Hellerstein said though the government had raised “important issues” of national security as a reason for the delays, “merely raising national security concerns cannot justify unlimited delay.”
Megan L. Gaffney, a spokeswoman for federal prosecutors in New York, declined to comment.
Jameel Jaffer, an ACLU lawyer, was heartened by the action.
“Increasingly, the administration’s response to requests has been to stonewall or delay as long as possible until documents are forced out of them by a court,” he said.
U.S. forces tortured Iraqis, general says Army report ties 46 to abuses at Abu Ghraib
WASHINGTON - An Army general acknowledged for the first time Wednesday that U.S. forces tortured Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib prison, and his report said a colonel who headed the military intelligence unit at the prison could face criminal charges.
“It’s a harsh word, and in some instances, unfortunately, I think it was appropriate here. There were a few instances where torture was being used,” Maj. Gen. George Fay said at a briefing at the Pentagon on the Army’s investigation into the role of military intelligence personnel in the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, on the outskirts of Baghdad.
Defense Department leaders and Bush administration officials had previously steered clear of describing the physical abuse and sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners as torture. Fay did not specify the actions he considered torture.
“We discovered serious misconduct and a loss of moral values,” said Gen. Paul Kern, the head of the investigation.
The findings, by Fay and Lt. Gen. Anthony R. Jones, came a day after an independent panel released a report blaming senior leaders, including Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for lax oversight and inattention to the issue of military-run prisons in Iraq. This contributed to the chaos at Abu Ghraib, said members of that panel, led by former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger.
Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry said Wednesday that civilian leaders in the White House and the Defense Department should be held accountable for the abuses.
“Harry Truman had that sign on the desk, and it said, ‘The buck stops here,’” Kerry said in Philadelphia. “The buck doesn’t stop at the Pentagon.”
As he has several times before, Kerry called for Rumsfeld to resign. He also called for President Bush to appoint an independent commission to investigate “all of the chain of abuses that took place, and why they took place, including the civilian side.”
46 could be charged
Investigators referred Col. Thomas Pappas, commander of the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade at Abu Ghraib, to Army authorities for possible disciplinary action, which could prompt criminal charges.
In all, the report referred 46 names for possible charges. In addition to Pappas, four other Army officers, 29 more military intelligence soldiers, four military police soldiers and two medical personnel were forwarded. On the civilian side, the names of six private contractors were sent to the Justice Department for possible legal action.
To date, only seven military police reservists who served at Abu Ghraib have been charged.
The 143-page investigation, nicknamed the Fay report, depicts the involvement of U.S. military intelligence officers and civilian contractors working with them in the abuse at Abu Ghraib, a former torture center under toppled President Saddam Hussein, as much greater than had been previously disclosed.
The report blames the abuses on several factors: “misconduct (ranging from inhumane to sadistic) by a small group of morally corrupt soldiers and civilians, a lack of discipline on the part of leaders and soldiers” and a “failure or lack of leadership” by higher command in Iraq.
The report distinguishes between the abuse depicted in many of the now-famous photographs from the prison, which the military says was committed by a small group of guards and others, and abuses committed during interrogations.
About two-thirds of the abuses during interrogations were committed by soldiers who wrongly believed they were using approved techniques or were unclear about what techniques they could legally use, Army officials said.
Kern said the most horrific abuse investigators discovered involved U.S. soldiers who held a contest to scare teenage detainees with guard dogs “in order to see who could make the detainees urinate and defecate first.”
“This is clearly a deviation from everything we’ve taught people how to behave,” Kern said. “There were failures of leadership, of people seeing these things and not correcting them. There were failures of discipline.”
Senior officers at loggerheads
Earlier investigations have found a deeply antagonistic relationship between the military police, led by Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, and military intelligence soldiers, led by Pappas, at Abu Ghraib, where numerous prisoners were subjected to physical abuse and sexual humiliation.
The report said Pappas improperly authorized the use of guard dogs during interrogations, failed to take aggressive action against soldiers who violated U.S. rules and the Geneva Conventions, showed poor judgment and failed to put in place a system to detect and prevent abuses.
Lt. Col. Stephen Jordan, Maj. David Price, Maj. Michael Thompson and Capt. Carolyn Wood could also face criminal charges. Jordan directed the Abu Ghraib interrogation debriefing center. The report cited him for dereliction of duty during a chaotic night of prisoner abuse in November 2003.
The report also found that U.S. forces improperly hid at least eight detainees from observers of the International Committee of the Red Cross, and investigators asked the Defense Department inspector general’s office and the CIA to look further into the issue of so-called ghost detainees.
Independent panel’s report
By contrast, the independent report released Tuesday found no policy of abuse and concluded that the problems were directly the fault of the soldiers who committed violence against the prisoners and of their immediate supervisors.
The four-member commission, appointed by Rumsfeld and headed by Schlesinger, also said senior commanders and top-level Defense Department officials, including Rumsfeld, could be faulted for failed leadership and oversight.
The new reports are among several that have examined various aspects of the prisoner abuse scandal, which rocked the Bush administration and triggered calls by others in Congress for Rumsfeld to resign.
No senior officials deserve to lose their jobs, the Schlesinger commission members told reporters Tuesday while releasing their findings. They said they believed the Defense Department was on a path to remedying the underlying causes of the abuse.
The Schlesinger report assigned significant blame to Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, saying he should have ensured that his staff dealt with the command and resource problems at Abu Ghraib when they first came to light in November 2003. Still, it acknowledges that Sanchez was focused on combating a mounting Iraqi insurgency at the time.
The White House had no immediate comment on the Schlesinger report.
At least three more reports are in the works. One, looking at allegations that detainees were abused by Special Operations forces, is due in the next few weeks.
Another, in which Vice Adm. Albert Church, the Navy’s inspector general, has been reviewing Defense Department detainee operations, is expected in mid-September. The third, looking at whether military intelligence and military police units were taught proper interrogation procedures, is expected in November.
Highlights of the Army report
In its report, the Army found:
- Soldier No. 01, a medic, failed to report seeing “a human pyramid of naked Iraqi prisoners, all with sandbags on their heads,” when she was called to provide medical treatment.
- Soldier No. 08, a dog handler from the 16th Military Police Brigade, “had an ongoing contest with Soldier 27, another dog handler, to scare detainees with their dogs in order to see who could make the detainees urinate and defecate first.”
- Soldier No. 20, a medic, failed to report seeing a detainee struck in the leg with a stick where he had been shot. The detainee, it said, was kicked by Military Police Spec. Charles Graner, currently involved in hearings in Mannheim, Germany, ahead of his scheduled court-martial for abuse.
- Soldier No. 25, an interrogator with the 321st Military Intelligence Battalion, “thought it was funny” to see detainees flee from dogs and failed to report prisoners handcuffed together in contorted positions, making it look as though they were having sex with each other.
- Soldier No. 27, a dog handler from the 523rd Military Police Detachment, “led his dog into a cell with two juvenile detainees and let his dog ‘go nuts.’ The two juveniles were yelling and screaming with the youngest one hiding behind the oldest.”
- Civilian No. 05, a contract interrogator, kept yanking a prisoner to the ground using handcuffs and told a soldier who admonished him for abuse and drinking alcohol at the prison, “I have been doing this for 20 years and I do not need a 20-year-old telling me how to do my job.”
Manipulation of up 1/4 of the US is staged by 'railroading' the vote. Hitler did this too.
Campaigns push to get out
the early vote As many as 25 percent may be cast before Nov. 2
By Andrea Mitchell
Updated: 7:54 p.m. ET Oct. 4, 2004
Walk into campaign offices in suburban Detroit and you'd think the election is only days away. Volunteers there are scrambling to get out the vote - the early vote.
“We're trying to spread the word," says Chris Paolino of the Michigan Republican Party. "When people mention they're supportive of the president, we make sure they understand that they have the option to vote absentee.”
Both Republicans and Democrats are working the phones and knocking on doors - anything to get voters to cast a ballot before Election Day. It helps campaigns be more efficient.
“Once you know you've got a certain amount of voters that have already voted you don't have to concentrate on them," says Terry Spyszak of the Michigan Democratic Party. "You can concentrate on others and maximize your resources.”
This year 31 states permit some form of early voting - the highest ever - either by absentee ballot or in person. Some experts say as many as one in four voters will make their choice before November 2. That’s far more than four years ago.
For campaigns it’s no longer “Election Day” but “Election month.”
“We target people that we know are going to be our supporters and we try, literally, to get those votes in the bank,” says Kerry campaign advisor Tad Devine.
How much money are they going to spend on early voting? Millions, says Devine.
Who might vote early? Factory workers with less job flexibility, senior citizens who need help getting to the polls and busy suburban moms who don’t want to wait in long Election Day lines.
“We think it’s an opportunity to reach out to people who support you but are unreliable in whether they turn out,” says Bush-Cheney Campaign Manager Ken Mehlman.
But there is a risk. Many states permit campaigns to distribute and collect the early ballots. That could mean fraud or mistakes.
Just last week in Iowa, candidates in a statewide race were left off nearly 60,000 absentee ballots in four counties.
And early voters can’t factor in late developments.
“If there's an event or a terrorist attack three days before the election, 25 million may have voted and wouldn't know about it,” says election expert Curtis Gans.
But the campaigns love early voting because, in a close race, a big stockpile of absentee ballots can make all the difference.
Shots fired at Bush Tenn. headquarters
Knoxville, TN, Oct. 5 (UPI) -- An unknown gunman fired several shots into the Bearden, Tenn., Bush-Cheney campaign office Tuesday, WBIR-TV in Knoxville reported.
According to Knoxville police officers on the scene, it is believed that the two separate shots were fired from a car sometime between 6:30 a.m. and 7:15 a.m. One shot shattered the glass in one front door and the other cracked the glass in another of the front doors.
There were no witnesses to the shooting. A customer at a nearby dry cleaning store noticed shattered glass on the sidewalk in front of the headquarters and called police.
Volunteers and staffers at the campaign office say they have no clues as to who might have committed the crime. However, they add that the shooting makes them even more enthusiastic and energized about working for their candidates.
"If I have to sleep here (at the campaign office) now, that's what I'll do," says volunteer Suzanne Dewar.
But, as Kaniewski notes, “it’s not entirely up to any administration to say how the department is entirely structured. Any major changes would require congressional approval."
Congress has been nothing short of “schizophrenic” in its approach to homeland security, he says, noting that the DHS and Secretary Tom Ridge report to no fewer than 88 congressional committees and subcommittees.
Cheney makes impact
from the shadows Vice President wields unprecedented
power with few fingerprints Vice President Dick Cheney, background, and President George W. Bush walk near the Oval Office. Cheney is seen as man who carefully chooses when to intervene, becoming an unwavering force for resolving problems.
WASHINGTON - At a crucial moment during diplomacy over North Korea's nuclear ambitions this year, Vice President Cheney late one night persuaded President Bush to draft new, more hard-edged instructions for U.S. negotiators in Beijing - which Secretary of State Colin L. Powell only learned about the next day.
And during negotiations on last year's tax-cut bill, when House and Senate Republican lawmakers were barely on speaking terms, it was Cheney who went up to Capitol Hill and in a series of closed-door meetings cut through animosity and arranged the deal that passed the Senate by a single vote - his own.
Cheney, who tonight debates his Democratic challenger, Sen. John Edwards (N.C.), is arguably the most powerful vice president in U.S. history. He is also the administration's essential man.
He roams across the foreign and domestic policy landscape, identifying issues on which he can make a difference. When he chooses to insert himself into the process, he is a powerful force for resolving problems - or an unmovable roadblock that thwarts the agenda of others, especially Powell.
"He has become the national security adviser," said David Rothkopf, a visiting scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, who interviewed more than two dozen administration officials for an upcoming history of the National Security Council. "Time after time, he has co-opted the leadership and policy-shaping role that the national security adviser or secretary of state usually has."
But Rothkopf said assertions by Cheney's detractors that he is a secretive puppetmaster, wreaking havoc on administration policy, are overblown. "He is not a monster. He is not Darth Vader," he said. "He is a very purposeful, thoughtful guy, but highly conservative to the point of being ideological."
Although Cheney's impact is felt, he leaves few fingerprints, administration officials say. He often doesn't tell his staff what he thinks, or even what he did in private meetings with lawmakers or the president. He also chooses his moments carefully: He may skip repeated meetings of senior officials on a particular issue, appearing only when his intervention could make a difference.
"He was kind of a one-way street. You give him information, but you don't know what he does with it," said Cesar V. Conda, for three years his top domestic policy aide. "He is the quintessential policy wonk. We would give him three-inch-thick binders full of information, and he would read every single page, every fact and figure."
Lawrence B. Lindsey, director of the National Economic Council in the first half of Bush's term, said the outside image of Cheney as a Machiavellian figure inside the administration may stem in part from the way he absorbs information.
"What you see is what you get. He's a very substantive person," Lindsey said. "He is not the most expressive person; it's a real midwestern-strength kind of thing. You get the sense of him taking it all in without signaling what he thinks. Then he makes up his mind and results happen."
Cheney's small, effective and intensely loyal staff also works to provide him with intelligence on key issues bubbling through the bureaucracy. Often, in tandem with allies such as the Defense Department, they may push an issue in a certain direction, making Cheney's personal involvement unnecessary. But if that fails, he still has a chance to swing the debate in meetings with Bush's top advisers - or later, in a private conversation with the president.
Cheney's résumé includes stints as White House chief of staff, House minority whip and defense secretary. He "has a great sense of how things work in Washington," said an official who has worked for Cheney in the administration of President George H.W. Bush and in the current administration. "He loves to hear tales of bureaucratic infighting," the official added. Cheney then uses the information gleaned from those lower-level conflicts to inform his strategy for meetings with other top officials.
Support from a 'virtual staff'
Though Cheney's immediate staff is relatively small, the vice president has allies sprinkled throughout the administration. Rothkopf said Cheney has "an unprecedented virtual staff, especially in Defense, which he has worked very effectively."
Cheney's aides say this is overstated. But one administration official, who often agrees with Cheney on the issues, described the vice president as a "trump card" in the tense interagency conflicts that have characterized this administration. "You can only play him selectively and only that often," he said.
Cheney doesn't win every battle. During the investigation by the Sept. 11 commission, he opposed releasing a crucial intelligence briefing - warning al-Qaida planned attacks in the United States - that Bush received a month before the attacks. Cheney believed release of the information would chill intelligence reporting. But White House political advisers won that debate and the document was released to the media.
Following are two case studies of how Cheney operates in the arenas of domestic and foreign policy. Given the power and influence of the vice president, few officials involved agreed to be quoted by name. The vice president declined a request for an interview.
Cutting a tax deal
In the last week of May 2003, Bush had a problem. He had spent months trying to get his third tax cut through Congress, and needed a deal by Memorial Day in order to get tax rebate checks to the voters by July. But House and Senate Republicans were split over the size and shape of the bill.
So he sent Cheney to Capitol Hill to find a solution.
When the bill was proposed at the start of 2003 as a $726 billion package, Cheney had already had a significant impact. He convinced the president that the bill needed to accelerate cuts in individual tax rates, overriding concerns of White House political advisers that cuts in rates for wealthy taxpayers would fuel attacks by Democrats.
Now, the key problem was that the influential chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa), had made a commitment to two senators that the tax bill would not be larger than $350 billion over 10 years. But there was a dispute over what the agreement meant.
Grassley thought the promise covered only tax cuts; one of the senators, George Voinovich (R-Ohio), believed the $350 billion figure also included spending that would add to the deficit - $20 billion in financial aid to states that the administration already was not happy to see attached to its tax bill. The unresolved dispute meant the tax cut might have to be reduced to at least $330 billion.
House leaders could not believe they would have to scale back their ambitions further because of a vague promise made to a senator. Rep. Bill Thomas (R-Calif.), chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, fumed to Grassley that a deal was a deal, and the whole thing was an outrage. He stormed out of one meeting in anger.
Enter Cheney. The vice president first determined that Voinovich was not going to change his mind. He met privately with Thomas, before bringing Voinovich into the meeting to make it clear to Thomas that the Ohio Republican would vote against the bill unless the House compromised.
Cheney held most of these sessions with no staff members in the room - not even his own. Candida Perotti Wolff, his legislative aide, stood outside as Cheney cut the deal, and then never received a report from him about what was discussed. "He prefers to do these meetings without staff, and he does not tend to divulge what happens behind closed doors," she said.
One congressional official who attended some meetings between Cheney and the lawmakers said he was astonished at the level of detail the vice president understood about the complex issues under discussion, particularly as lawmakers had to reshape the tax bill to fit into the smaller $330 billion box.
"He was very calm, very deliberate. He had an air of confidence and control over the details," the official said. Within two days, Cheney had resolved the impasse. The tax bill passed the Senate, 51 to 50, with Cheney casting the tiebreaker vote in his role as president of the Senate.
Steering North Korea policy
Few issues have divided the Bush foreign policy team as much as North Korea's nuclear ambitions. Cheney has played a critical - but largely unknown - role in this debate.
On one side are those, such as Powell, who think North Korea can be persuaded to abandon its nuclear ambitions in exchange for eventual aid, guarantees of security and other diplomatic incentives. Other top officials, such as Cheney, profoundly mistrust the North Koreans and think political and economic pressure will be necessary to force Pyongyang to capitulate. Bush has given rhetorical support to the first approach but has never settled the question internally.
Cheney has tipped the scales at key moments. Administration officials had agreed the United States would not be drawn into one-to-one negotiations with North Korea unless other countries from the region were at the table. North Korea, the United States and four other countries finally met in Beijing in August 2003.
But the results were minimal and, by December, China was pressing for another meeting that they hoped would demonstrate progress. Chinese officials drafted a statement to be released at the end of the meeting, saying quick approval would ensure that the North Koreans would attend a round of talks in December.
When Bush's top foreign policy aides met on Dec. 12 to discuss the Chinese initiative, Cheney - who had not attended a North Korea meeting for months - unexpectedly showed up. The text, as drafted by the Chinese, did not call for "irreversible" dismantling of North Korea's programs or mention "verification," two key phrases in previous U.S. statements.
The vice president weighed in strongly at the meeting, saying those phrases needed to be in the statement. At one point, Cheney invoked the president and said he had made it clear that the United States doesn't negotiate with tyranny, according to two officials who attended the meeting. "We don't negotiate with evil; we defeat it," Cheney declared. That ended the discussion: The Chinese draft was rejected.
Kevin Kellems, Cheney's spokesman, expressed doubt that Cheney put it that bluntly: "I don't think he said it. I have never heard him say anything like it."
When the six-nation talks in Beijing finally resumed in February, Cheney intervened again. On Thursday evening, Feb. 26 - Friday morning in China - Cheney met with Bush and persuaded him to send new instructions to the U.S. delegation as it sat down for another day of discussions.
The original instructions to the delegation said that any joint statement issued after the talks must include language on a "complete, verifiable irreversible dismantlement" of North Korea's weapons, known in the diplomatic world by the shorthand of "CVID."
But the North Koreans had rejected that during the talks. The chief U.S. negotiator, Assistant Secretary of State James A. Kelly, reported back about the impasse, wondering if the delegation instead should try to obtain a bland diplomatic statement short of original U.S. goals.
With Powell and his deputy, Richard L. Armitage, away at a black-tie event, Bush drafted new instructions with Cheney's input. The instructions - which in diplomatic terms suggested the administration's "continued support" of the six-nation talks was in jeopardy unless the U.S. demands were met - were dictated over the phone by White House official Michael Green to the delegation, bypassing the standard State Department cable system.
Powell and Armitage did not find out about the new instructions until they woke up next morning, and Powell began fielding anguished calls from his Asian counterparts. The Chinese foreign minister told Powell the North Koreans were now willing to sign a more generic statement calling for continued talks.
That afternoon, Powell pulled Bush aside before a luncheon with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, and argued for accepting a statement that the U.S. government 12 hours earlier said was unacceptable.
Bush reluctantly agreed - but, despite Chinese assurances, the North Koreans rejected it anyway.