middle class white kids playing at politics AKA the anarchists
red tom | 17.10.2004 12:12 | European Social Forum
The sheer stupidity of the anarchist movement is legendary but this will really take some beating.
The morons in hoods decided to disrupt a meeting called to discuss the grave threat posed by fascism. They hit a black speaker and stole his phone. They pushed a Jewish woman. Why? Because they claim Ken isn’t perfect. Well I agree but at least he’s actively campaigning against the BNP.
It is beyond belief that they choose to disrupt this meeting. There are so many causes worth taking up… peace, democracy, freedom for the oppressed… but why a pathetic complaint about the ESF organisation?
I wish they would go back to mummy and daddy in Cambridge and let the grown-up's get on with creating another world.
The morons in hoods decided to disrupt a meeting called to discuss the grave threat posed by fascism. They hit a black speaker and stole his phone. They pushed a Jewish woman. Why? Because they claim Ken isn’t perfect. Well I agree but at least he’s actively campaigning against the BNP.
It is beyond belief that they choose to disrupt this meeting. There are so many causes worth taking up… peace, democracy, freedom for the oppressed… but why a pathetic complaint about the ESF organisation?
I wish they would go back to mummy and daddy in Cambridge and let the grown-up's get on with creating another world.
red tom
Comments
Hide the following 26 comments
sounds like sour grapes
17.10.2004 13:55
William Blake's ghost
Rea-hee-heely
17.10.2004 14:08
whitey
go back to Lenins tomb red tom
17.10.2004 14:26
That just sums up the attitude of the Old Left in the UK
You think you know best.
I say the demo was a success because it has highlighted some of the major problems within the ESF movement
It is vital that we the enlightened stop the SWP, the CPGB the Labour party and other contrl freaks from getting control not just of the ESF but also the antiwar movement.
We have to build from the grassroots up.
I was not there but read about it on Indymediaand the Guardian
Sil
united against hypocrisy
17.10.2004 14:26
There is a grave threat posed by fascism in the world today. For Ken Livingston to campaign against the fringe racists (the BNP) and simultaneously join an incomparably more powerful and racist political party (Labor) while it is prosecuting an illegal war is beyond belief. If anarchists are stupid, it must be because they are incapable of the mental gymnastics required to believe that it is good to defend people against racist attacks in the UK while killing tens of thousands of Arabs abroad.
The statements made from the stage were intelligent and generally well-received by most people in the auditorium. If anyone wants to read the statement of the Babels translator network and judge its intelligence for themselves, it is at
anarchist
......
17.10.2004 14:27
solidarity not charity
Liar Liar
17.10.2004 14:38
I don't want to grow up to be like you
Censored
17.10.2004 15:12
PS: wasn't Indymedia itself founded by anarchists?
Just checking...
Red & Black Tom
Hmm
17.10.2004 15:17
Krop
proud
17.10.2004 15:26
For a revolutionnary social change from below, fuck authority
a german brother that came to Beyond ESF
xxx
SMOKESCREEN
17.10.2004 18:02
Your ESF meeting was not anti-fascist.
You do not include freeing the Labour Party from Fascist control in your worth while causes, and hence have become one of the agents for building Global Fascism. That is quite usual, you are probably SWP, and were going around telling people who did not have one of your 'front' candidates to vote for to support Blair's New Labour.
The SWP uses the BNP fascist scare as a smokescreen to hide the very real fascism being built by New Labour. Labour Politicians do the same. Neither attack the Blairites for building Fascism. Suckers.
Ken has been outmanouvered and is in no position to take out Blair. And the SWP does not have the balls for serious action. Anarchists are pretty wet too, they haven't taken out the Traitors. They swallowed the VAT increases when their action against Poll Tax succeeded. Was that then a win?
DARKERCLOUD
"we the enlightened"
17.10.2004 20:15
Well that just about sums up the elitism of some of the "autonomists" so I suppose the rest of us are all stupid just becuase we disagree with you.
No wonder you hate the ESF, imnagine all those unenlightened people getting together and discussing things for themselves, how horrid that must be for you elite.
Sonic
Comrades - I was There
17.10.2004 21:17
Stop moaning and shut up.
Billy
to Sonic
18.10.2004 02:02
If you are going to quote me do not chop half the sentence off as it alters what I meant.
I would love to have been at the ESF but could not afford it as I dont live near london
Therefore I do NOT hate the ESF
What I dont like is control freaks and I have witnessed plenty of that from some of the left.By 'enlightened I only mean those who can see how control freaks operate.
I consider myself to be a socialist but I do not like the way that many in SWP,CPGB and other left groups operate...secret meetings,entryism,.I would not actually consider everyone who belongs to those groups to be controling types.
I would actually have liked to see some reports on here about what else happened at the ESF.
sil
A response
18.10.2004 03:48
To talk about the problem being the rest of the left, not our actual enemies you play right into the hands of our rulers.
Some of the comments on here about "beating up paper sellers" etc have annoyed me almost beyond reason, a lot of you have to take a long hard look at whose interests you are really serving.
As for not being able to afford going to the ESF if you had really wanted to you could have. Lots of unemployed people in Glasgow got involved and collected money from family and workmates. There was also TU sponsorship involved.
We have to work together to build our alternative world, the anti-G8 protest in Genoa taught me the lesson that if we are divided and march seperately we get our heads kicked in. Perhaps a few posters on here should reflect on that.
Sonic
the 'jewish woman' joined the march!
18.10.2004 05:17
Also, I don't believe this mobile phone story, it sounds like a deliberate attempt to spin against the intervention. At the event the crowd were certainly supportive of the intervention and many esf delegates joined the march as far as i could tell.
stinky
Calm down everyone! It's not a commercial!
18.10.2004 11:52
Stuart Price
BNP 1 Anti-facsist 0
18.10.2004 11:58
why did'nt you join forces with the nazis ,have a united front against anybody you happen to disagree with.
I pose a question. If the BNP had done the same would you have supported it .
you can tell the anarcists are making no impact in the movement, acts like the above just demonstate their frustration with not being able to relate to anybody.
red letter
racists and capitalists
18.10.2004 13:45
el gormo squirrello
Why does the SWP do NOT call for strike action at Vauxhall
18.10.2004 14:28
s
a few points...
18.10.2004 14:31
second, i really do hope all you people involved in the stuff that happened at middlesex uni are aware that you would not have a space to have met, had it not been for members of the swp. you do know that the campus was saved from closing down about a decade ago by a student occupation led by swp members, right?
d
class analysis????
18.10.2004 14:55
nickthegyp
No Tea cup Storm
18.10.2004 18:22
PUK
Sums it up really
18.10.2004 23:11
Well that tells us lots about what you really think, no-one elses views matter except your own, and you call us authoritarian!
Sonic
"Living in a grown-up world"
19.10.2004 07:01
If you were there, then you'll know that it was clearly said that the action was against Ken Livingstone, "Ken's Party - War Party" said the banner, and it was made clear that the autonomous spaces were pigged to fuck, and grass roots activists were being hassled all over the place, no doubt with the connivance of the very same Ken Livingstone.
But you (and I bet my bottom dollar that you're a middle class flunky) can't see repression unless it's served up to you in a nice glossy brochure at a corporate event. Do "grown-ups" really have this disconnect where they can't see that the same party that bombed tens of thousands of Iraqis to death in a highly dodgy war, is running the ESFprocess hand in hand with their "left-wing brand" the SWP?
Democracy, if it helps, is giving ALL the people a voice ..........
"I wish they would go back to mummy and daddy in Cambridge and let the grown-up's get on with creating another world."
The "another world" that was "created" at Alexander Palace is exactly the same tired, shit world that we live in all the time :rolleyes:
d="second, i really do hope all you people involved in the stuff that happened at middlesex uni are aware that you would not have a space to have met, had it not been for members of the swp. you do know that the campus was saved from closing down about a decade ago by a student occupation led by swp members, right?"
Well I'm glad that we've established that even the SWP see occupations as a valid form of resistance.
As its scheduled to be shut again next year, can we assume that they'll be LEADING another occupation of the campus soon?
ftp
How ridiculous.
19.10.2004 07:57
Whilst the likes of SWP talk about social change, us in the anarchist movement get on with it, and we dont need big financial backing to do it either.
anarchris
For God's sake stop it
20.10.2004 10:08
We all have our own ways of organising. The nroblem comes when some try to prevent others from doing what they do. There is no doubt at all that the SWP, GLA and Socialist Action tried very hard to do that during the organisation of this event. The evidence is widely known.
The stage invasion might have been controversial but the event went on afterwards and a valid point was made about democracy. Let's all please stop lunging at each other's throats. Political movements have been born and died before because of this sort of thing.
And for Christ's sake stop all this racist crap. No-one was punched, and if they had been it wouldn't have mattered whether they were black or not. Is it OK to punch white people but not black people? Does someone get special treatment for being Jewish? Come to that, does being 'middle class and white' invalidate someone's opinion or action?
Give this crap a miss: judge people on actions and principles, not skin colour or class, or you're no different from those you profess to dislike.
Paul