SWP&autonomist "just a thought"
red letter | 26.10.2004 12:35
come july 2005, the whole world will be watching how the anti-capitalist movement will respond to the G8 summit. There is no doubt that huge responsibilities lay with the british anti-capitalist movement and the left to organise an effective opposition to the summit.
while the anti- movement has been very strong in britain the anti-capitalist movementhas been much weaker. The organised networks in britain are not in the same league as ATTAC in France nor the Social Forum in italy. THe high points of the movement took place in june 1999"Carnival against Capitalism" and on may Day 2000, both events made world news headlines. The success of the events depended largely on the element of surprise, but the following year, the state clamped down and the police were able to outmanoeuvre the protesters and temporarily stifle the expression the movement.
Repulsion against capitalism still remains high but if we want next year to be our Genoa it is extremely important that it is extremely important that the british anti-capitalist movement is re-energised and gets its act togethet.
so why cant the swp and autonomist work to gether on this.swp the swp is capable with joint working, the stop war movement has proved this, so why can't differences be put to oneside for the momoment until after the G8.
while the anti- movement has been very strong in britain the anti-capitalist movementhas been much weaker. The organised networks in britain are not in the same league as ATTAC in France nor the Social Forum in italy. THe high points of the movement took place in june 1999"Carnival against Capitalism" and on may Day 2000, both events made world news headlines. The success of the events depended largely on the element of surprise, but the following year, the state clamped down and the police were able to outmanoeuvre the protesters and temporarily stifle the expression the movement.
Repulsion against capitalism still remains high but if we want next year to be our Genoa it is extremely important that it is extremely important that the british anti-capitalist movement is re-energised and gets its act togethet.
so why cant the swp and autonomist work to gether on this.swp the swp is capable with joint working, the stop war movement has proved this, so why can't differences be put to oneside for the momoment until after the G8.
red letter
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anti-war anti-revolutionary movement
26.10.2004 13:50
Certainly I imagine people would be happy for mass mobilisations, but certainly not like the street fighting and wave after wave of repression from the state as was seen in Italy.
Re your point:
"the swp is capable with joint working, the stop war movement has proved this, so why can't differences be put to oneside for the momoment until after the G8."
I don't think the stop the war movement proved this at all. The stop the war movement did show that there were millions of people who felt strongly enough to march through the streets, and it did show that the swp were quite good at organising such demonstrations.
But if you scratch the surface of the anti-war movement you will find a trail of deep divisions, take overs and an almost utter failure of swp groups across the country to back any direct action. Indeed many swp members actively discouraged the organisation of and support for peaceful road blockades and other fluffy direct actions. The pattern was repeated across the country, with people wanting to take such actions, but swp members saying that such action should only be resorted to when the bombs start dropping and not before. This was a massive opportunity lost.
After the ESF I imagine people will be even more unwilling to try and work with them.
They certainly were key to bringing the Muslim Association of Britain (MAB) to the anti-war movement, but if you ask key activists from MAB about the swp, they are clear that these are not people to be trusted.
If the swp show they are willing to do more than organise a pop festival or a march from A-B to listen to speeches miles away from the G8, then people might take them more seriously. However one of the lessons of the ESF is that trying to work with these people is an uphill struggle that will simply waste months of hard work for very little result.
It would be better for people to get on with organising their own events, try to work with everyone, apart from the swp, but to simply just try and co-ordinate with them at a minimum level rather than trying to form coalitions with them.
truth will out
until the SWP change its attitudes this wont happen
26.10.2004 14:19
el gormo squirrello
sorry, you are so so wrong
26.10.2004 14:37
> important that the british anti-capitalist movement is re-energised and gets its act
> togethet.
come on... Genoa was hardly a high point in 'the movement' (I dispute there is a movement in the first place). If you had said Prague or Seattle, I'd have let it pass but Genoa was nothing that I'd like to see reproduced.
> so why cant the swp and autonomist work to gether on this.
simple. They are two completely different things with fundimental differences that can not be reconcilled.
> the swp is capable with joint working, the stop war movement has proved this,
Joint working? You mean working with the state and the cops? They certainly didn't work with me. STC repeatedly sabotaged civil disobedience by calling for marches and demos on days already widely advertised for mass direct action.
> so why can't differences be put to oneside for the momoment until after the G8.
yeah, cause the ends are more important than the means, right?
ben
Because...
26.10.2004 15:46
In terms of next july, the differnce between (SWP front group) Globalise Resistance (GR) and those who want to actually *resist* the G8 could not be clearer. GR want to hold a music festival miles away from where the G8 are meeting! The Dissent! Network, for example, is planning to actually protest in some meaningful, direct way...rather than stand in a field and listen to a few bands and a load of speeches from the Party leaders. I just don't see a great deal of common ground. We all think capitalism ist shit. Big Deal. Our ultimate goals (which are illustrated regularly by our choice of tactics and methods of organisation) repeatedly show they we are engaged in very different struggles.
The bloody Liberal Democrats were against the war (sort of!) but that doesn't mean I'd be happy to hand over control of the Stop the War Coalition to them...why should it be any different with the SWP?
In the run up to the ESF many people in the 'autonomous' or 'horizontal' parts of the movement made heroic efforts to engage with the political parties who ended up controlling the thing. I very much respect the effort that was made, but it served to prove once again that the SWP and co will use any trick in the book (moving times and dates of meetings and not telling people outside their inner circle, not producing publicly available minutes of meetings...the list goes on and on) to CONTROL everything.
There's no reason to believe the G8 will be any different. As always, the primary motivation of the authoritarian socialist parties will be to build their membership...not to engage in meaningful resistance.
poon
Homepage:
http://www.dissent.org.uk/
The SWP want their own demo and conference for the g8. It will be ever thus.
26.10.2004 16:08
I have had idealistic tendencies on the subject of unity, and the SWP, too often. They will only work with others if they have to, if there is no alternative. They have always done it this way, and wouldn't know any other way. Their schooled sectarian minds are brainwashed, to change even with months of collective therapy. Without the arrogance, dominance, and control they dont exist.
It sounds to me that you have been reading Prof. Alex Calincos's reports from some of the expressions in your text. What Calinicos says about the anti-capitalist movement has little value, he's a clever man, but about this he hasn't got a clue, really. For example, he and you say ATTAC are anti-capitalist - they are not; they are arguing for small reforms of financial markets. Neither are the Social Forums in Italy anti-capitalist, they were the back bone of the anti-war mobilisation.
The size of the SWP is widely known: now less than 800 members, but the size of the anti-capitalist movement in this country is not well know, and it should remain that way. The SWP started acknowledging the anti-capitalist only after Seattle, which was typical because they have such little grasp on reality of what’s happening on the ground. Its hard to that the SWP, themselves, don't know if they are in the anti-capitalist movement, or out of it, or what the fuck the anti-capitalist movement is. But its true.
The SWP will go out in a burst of sectarian activity, at the g8 next year and at the general election. They are on their way out but the lights too are out, as they fumble around in the dark panic-stricken. Lets switch the lights on and show them the door.
The SWP should be working honestly with others now, in its own interest to enable survival, but its hubris and irrationality prevents it. Their input to the g8 will be to call a demo and organise their own conference for as many as there own party as possible.
hh
protest which changes things?
27.10.2004 02:21
muppit
Homepage:
http://www.socialistwanker.com
Perhaps
27.10.2004 02:22
His contraditions are laughable "the SWP is on the way out" "The SWP is taking over the movement" My fave is "The SWP will call a conference and demo for it's own members" well most political parties do that, but as they called the ESF and it got 20,000 how do you explain that?
As for 800 members, I don't have figures on SWP membership (not being a member) and neither does hh, but tell me this, if they are so "on the way out" as you claim, why the obsession, why the constant posting about them?
Sonic
more swipper spin
27.10.2004 10:52
The swp organise event to get publicity for its media whores (galloway and lindsey german are but two) and to sell the unwitting papers..
face it when your RUC electoral vehicle fails at the next elections you'll be finished and have to reinvent yet again.
Be Serious
27.10.2004 20:18
At the anti-g8 The SWP will try to organise a conference and demo, with its usual partners. So what, it's expected. But this time there will be others on the scene and I dont mean the autonimous groups. They will not be able to dominate as in the STWC, and so will have to accept a smaller role than is usual.
Full unity of organisation for the anti-g8 is impossible, but lets hope the two halves talk and coordinate their activities. I am sure the two sides are pragmatic enough to see the value in this. I think the autonimous groups might sound off a little now but they'll accept the inevitable.
The SWP didn't call the ESF, a regularly meeting assembly across europe did that. They were one of two dominant groups in the host country which has special responsibilites. The numbers attending were less than half the two previous ESF's, but unlike you I wouldn't blame the SWP for this.
I think it important people are aware of how the SWP work. There are very sophisticated in how they operate and their caucusing skills are second to none. If the SWP does good work I will say so. The fact they are on the way out inspires me to try to let them know what I think they are doing wrong, on the one hand, although, on the other hand, when they are particularly stupid or disruptive I might say good riddance fall down a hole.
In that 800 or so members they have many full-time committed activists which is the chief characteristic of a Leninist party. When they are down to 500 hundred they will still have more resources than anyone else. When they hit 300 - they will be finished, like the socialist party who went through a similar, but more rapid decline because of a major split.
About the number 800. All I cab say is to you is count the branches and multiply by the average attendance, and scale up for the percentage who are not active. This was done 2 years ago, and put a very generous maximum on their membership. It was 1,200. Around that time a lower figure was leaked from their membership department. Comrades have been leaving in a steady but not dramatic way since then - but there have been no splits.
They have recruited very few members which spells disaster because the SWP have always had a high turnover of members: relying on many new comrades to replace the old - like a busy revolving door.
It’s a shame in a way because the SWP have probably politicised from raw, and then educated, more lefties than anyone else, who would otherwise would be daily mail readers now. So they certainly have made positive contributions. Many have moved on to other forms of political activity. So the SWP will be missed for this reason alone.
HH
swp has alot more than 800 members
28.10.2004 09:10
the swp is over 25 years old, there is no suggestion that they are dying down, they hsave more influence than ever
red letter
yeah right
28.10.2004 09:36
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Deal With The Facts
28.10.2004 15:04
At Marxism 2004, Registrations and overall attendance were down significantly - by about 50% - to around 2,500, of which about 400 were SWP. My source for this is totally reliable. Perhaps you are right Red Letter but how do you get from these figures to yours. By using magic?
The End
hh
SWPer
28.10.2004 18:44
LDT