For anyone who does not realise the government in Zimbabwe is a black government and if we do protest against it that would be a racist act

However, if anyone thinks that Muggers will care one iota about the emails, faxes amd letters, they are deluded.

Alice I think we can safely ignore, ftp I have to say that sadly I agree with you. I was involved with Peter Hain and the various protests aganst the South Africans during the Apartheid days. Having now returned to South Africa and spoken to people who were in government at the time I realised how little we achieved.

It is a sad reality that the one key event that led to change in south Africa was FW De Klerk's wish to be seen as a world statesman after his retirement. The reality is South Africa could very easily still be an apartheid state today. Mugabe doesn't care about a few letters or e-mails any more than Bush does. Protests outside the embassy don't have any effect.

The failure of the protests against Apartheid and the South African State is something that many have yet to come to terms with. Nelson Mandela is on record in "Long walk to Freedom"as saying it was a waste of time but his view was ignored.

The only way we can save the people of Zimbabwe is through military action.

So, who should take this military action? How many Zimbabweans are they allowed to kill? And most importantly what regime should they replace Mugabe's regime with?

Yeah right, that's why Mandela went out of his way to come to the UK and thank all the people and groups who took part in the Anti-Apartheid movement.

Just more 'be cynical, do nothing, stay in bed' right-wing troll nonsense...

ft is right we should take no military action. We should take no action to help the people of Zimbabwe at all. I campaign of letter writing and wringing our hands will be far more effective. I suggest we do nothing, wait until Mugabe has massacered thousands and then all post to Indymedia demanding to know why the British and US governments did nothing.

With this policy we will be able to hold the high moral ground which is the most important thing and helps to disguise the fact we have no ideas ourselves.

I did however ask questions - you apparently think the answers mean that military action is not an option........

I did however that say thought a letter writing campaign directed at the Mugabe regime amounted to meaningless tokenism.

So, elsewhere I have suggested a strategy - which is more than you have.

Nows your chance.

"...that's why Mandela went out of his way to come to the UK and thank all the people and groups who took part in the Anti-Apartheid movement..."

A claim I have seen before but it is simply not true. Mandela came to the UK and thanked people for supporting the fight against Apartheid but in his book he said the following ( I just looked it up)

".. too many in the world thought that revolution and change would come if they protested and wrote letters but only armed struggle would have achieved our aims if the National Party had not given up power. Any revolutionary brother wishing to see change must realise that political protest is an ineffective means of gaining power."

To the posters who have made (valuable) contributions on the problems in Zimbabwe it may be that you are not regular contributors to the Indymedia and perhaps are not aware that we suffer from what are known as 'Trolls'. These people delight in trying to move the debate away from the original post subject and turn it into an argument. FTP is one of these so we would advise you don't reply to his inflameatory posts as it will divert attention from the important issues you have raised.

Thanks

" the posters who have made (valuable) contributions on the problems in Zimbabwe"

Cool - lets see what are they shall we

Peter - fax email or write to Mugabe's High Commissioner
Alice- It's racist to protest against a black government
Rhodes - anti-apartheid movement didn't end apartheid
African - military action
Mr Spoon - "'be cynical, do nothing, stay in bed' right-wing troll nonsense."
Coward - " I suggest we do nothing"
African - alleged Mandela quote - no page reference
IMC Troll Watcher - ftp is a troll.

Well, Zimbabweans can certainly sleep safely in their beds tonite - problem solved

Well done "IMC Troll Watcher", you're ever so good at what you do - ie troll ;)

For anyone wanting to help click here

 http://www.zimbabwesituation.com/index.html#help

Is troll watcher someone who watches trolls, or is he a troll who is watching us?

I think the latter.

Funny how we only give a shit about Mugabe, a petty tyrant, when there are more corrupt and vicious tyrants in Africa who we directly support, like in Rwanda and Uganda.

I quote from Monbiot
 http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0614-22.htm

"That's the theory. In truth, corruption has seldom been a barrier to foreign aid and loans: look at the money we have given, directly and through the World Bank and IMF, to Mobutu, Suharto, Marcos, Moi and every other premier-league crook. Robert Mugabe, the west's demon king, has deservedly been frozen out by the rich nations. But he has caused less suffering and is responsible for less corruption than Rwanda's Paul Kagame or Uganda's Yoweri Museveni, both of whom are repeatedly cited by the G8 countries as practitioners of "good governance". Their armies, as the UN has shown, are largely responsible for the meltdown in the eastern Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), which has so far claimed 4 million lives, and have walked off with billions of dollars' worth of natural resources. Yet Britain, which is hosting the G8 summit, remains their main bilateral funder. It has so far refused to make their withdrawal from the DRC a conditionality for foreign aid.

The difference, of course, is that Mugabe has not confined his attacks to black people; he has also dispossessed white farmers and confiscated foreign assets. Kagame, on the other hand, has eagerly supplied us with the materials we need for our mobile phones and computers: materials that his troops have stolen from the DRC. "Corrupt" is often used by our governments and newspapers to mean regimes that won't do what they're told. "

Like Monbiot says, Mugabe obviously deserves special attention because he's attacking white people like us.

But yes, I agree that something should be done about him but the idea of taking militiary action is pretty ridiculous, when you look at the mess of Iraq and Afghanistan. And how many Zimbabwean's do you intend to kill to achieve this aim?

Continuing a policy of political isolation is the best route, and the Zimbabwean people will eventually be able to rid themselves of him. We should not intervene directly. Every time we do that, it leads to a complete disaster.

I am a Zimbabwe citizen who has been in England for two years. The policy of isolation is not working, the people are starving and need help now. Please send your soldiers to help, they can stop Mugabe before any more die.

Why won't the British PM Blair do this ?

How dare you disregard my views. Just because I am a women does not mean you can ignore me. I suggest you go and discover some details about Zimbabwe before you post again. For you information Zimbabwe used to be called Rhodesia and was run by a minority white government. The present leader President Robert Mugabe led the black population to a Socialist inspired revolution and as such any critiscism of him would be a rasict statement.

Sorry you find dealing with a woman so hard but welcome to the 21st Century

The response to your suggestion is nothing to do with your gender - whilst it would certainly be racist to protest against a government purely because of the race of the majority of its members, there is nothing racist in protesting about abuses of human rights. The fact that Mugabe is black does not make him immune from criticism if he behaves like a thug.

Your assumption that Indymedia readers do not know the history of Zimbabwe is incorrect.

Alfred, besides the fact your pleas will not reach the eys of the prime minister on this site, Iraq is a very current example of the dangers of attacking a country to effect regime change.

You are new at trolling aren't you Alice?
Opposition to a mans ideology equals racism and opposition to a woman equals sexism? That really the best you can do?
Get a grip, change your name and let's play a brand new game of 'spot the brand new troll'

Bird Flu and Rhodesian anthrax could mutate into white fascist dream!
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, December 09 2005 @ 04:48 PM GMT
Talking of cowardly Rhodesian SS officers there is something
about that ugly chicken in the above photo that reminds me of
that British passport holder and failed politician/convicted
political-thug, Roy Bennett. It has to be the combination of flabby
pink neck and bird-brain that dose it.
The Zimbabwean electorate rejected a Roy and Heather Bennett
political dynasty has the future of Zimbabwe. All this sad old
Rhodesian primitive has to flyaway with is his cherished memories
of ruling the nest and racially hen-pecking Black Zimbabweans .
These days the c'unt spends his leisure time binge-eating at
biltong-banquets and spending MDC funds to jet-set around the
white commonwealth doing guest appearances at Rhodesian
reunions enthralling his co-racist audiences with tales of the 'good
old days' of pissing in the mouths of Black farm workers.

Rhodesian SS officer+Pink flabby neck+bird brain=Roy Bennett