Skip to content or view mobile version

Home | Mobile | Editorial | Mission | Privacy | About | Contact | Help | Security | Support

A network of individuals, independent and alternative media activists and organisations, offering grassroots, non-corporate, non-commercial coverage of important social and political issues.

Hidden Article

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

LIVING IN GUSH KATIF

Nadia Matar | 08.08.2005 12:45

Nadia Matar is Co-chair of Women in Green, an activist group based in Jerusalem. Their website address is  http://www.womeningreen.org

I am writing to you from Kfar Yam, Gush Katif, where we moved with our family a couple of months ago. Our family of 8 shares a small caravan with a family of close friends, the Finkelsteins, co-leaders of Women in Green.

In addition, our place has become one of the many headquarters for youth who have managed, over the past two weeks, to enter Gush Katif, despite the infamous closure. Understanding that the only way to stop the uprooting of Gush Katif is by bringing the tens of thousands down here- fourteen to eighteen year old children, from all over the country, have spent hours on the road, hitch-hiking to the Kissufim junction and then finding their way around the roadblocks without being caught by the security forces, walking through fields, hiding at night, faking their identity- all in order to come to Gush Katif. Hundreds of youth have already succeeded in arriving and have joined the different organized groups of youth who live in school buildings, yeshivas or with private people like ourselves. They spend their time helping the Gush Katif residents, building, planting, baby sitting etc? In addition, hundreds of families, with babies and young children, have also managed to find their way inside and live now in the tent cities built by Minhelet Kela and /or have found lodging with families or in refurbished homes.

I am writing to you now, because very soon all communications with Gush Katif will be blocked. Yes, we were told that closer to August 15, PM Sharon will give instructions to block all phone and Internet lines in Gush Katif and will prevent the media from entering the area in order to tell the world what is going on.

I am writing to you now because terrible things are happening and more terrible things will happen if we don't stop the madness now. The bottom line is that PM Ariel Sharon knows that the majority of the people of Israel oppose his unilateral capitulation plan. But, as a true dictator, he will do all he can to force this plan upon us.

The last two weeks are proof that PM Sharon is turning Israel into a real fascist police state and I feel it is my obligation to tell you at least a few of the stories of what is going on.

Let us start with the police brutality against demonstrators and the collaboration of the corrupt court system, backing the government blindly. The stories we hear from around the country are just unbearable. A Rabbi who was handing out orange ribbons to cars in the Tel Aviv area was beaten to a pulp and falsely accused of "blocking roads". He was sent for three months to jail. Fourteen year old girls arrested for blocking roads were beaten, sent to jail for months and in jail are treated as if they were terrorists. A participant in a vigil against disengagement in Ramat Gan was thrown to the floor by 5 policemen. While holding his arms behind his back, one of the policemen stuck his fingers in the demonstrator's nostrils and was viciously pulling back the head. I could go on and on. In Kfar Maimon the police beat up the Yesha leaders, breaking the ribs of one of them and threatened that if anyone dared to cut the fence, they would shoot to kill. One of the heads of the police was caught on microphone telling his men to break the bones of the demonstrators if they dare march to Gush Katif. The message is clear: Sharon the dictator wants to scare us from even daring to come out and protest. The good news of course is that the more they beat us, the more determined people are to come out and protest. The 100,000 people in Kfar Maimon last week are proof that we have an army of determined people and if we only find the proper leadership that will give them next time the proper instructions, those people will, please G-d, succeed in bursting into Gush Katif.

Let us continue with what is going on in and around Gush Katif. I personally do not leave the area at all because, despite the fact that I and my family are official Gush Katif residents, I was told that I am on the list of those the security forces plan to pull out of their homes in the middle of the night, a couple of days before the uprooting. But from the testimonies we have gotten as to what is going on at the Kissufim checkpoint, it is difficult not to make associations with what our enemies did to us in Europe. Those are harsh words, but how else would you describe the unbearable humiliations Jews are undergoing at the checkpoints? Instead of having the security forces patrol the area to protect Jews and chase Arab terrorists, the forces are stationed at six different checkpoints- looking for "illegal" Jews, i.e. Jews who are not residents of Gush Katif and make sure they do not enter the Gush Katif ghetto. In other words, a ride that used to take maximum 2 hours from Jerusalem, has turned into a nightmare with roadblocks, humiliations, long waits and often sudden arrests. Family members of Gush Katif residents are obligated to go through a long process of getting a certificate allowing them to enter Gush Katif and visit their relatives, but only for 72 hours, otherwise they, and their hosts, will get arrested.

Until a few days ago, only the driver of a car needed to show his I.D and if he could show that he was a Gush Katif resident, anybody in his car could get in. Now the hands around our neck have tightened. Everybody is checked. Friends of ours drove down to Gush Katif. They had a permit because they had a family joyous occasion so they were allowed to enter. On their way, they gave a ride to a teenager who was trying to get in to Gush Katif to join his friends. He had learned by heart the name of a kid in Gush Katif and was going to pretend he is that person. The police asked him for his name. He gave his fake name. They asked for the ID. He had learned it by heart and answered correctly. Then the policeman took his little computer and said: "If you are really so and so, then I am sure you can tell me what the names of your brothers and sisters are? The poor boy did not know it of course and was immediately dragged out of the car with brutal force and arrested.

My husband David was arrested this past Friday for a couple of hours when he did not answer the policeman fast enough at the first checkpoint on his way down to Gush Katif after a full week of not having seen us. He played music in the car and was accused of "blocking the road with loud music!" A Holocaust survivor, resident of Gush Katif refused to identify herself on her way out of the Gush (yes, now you also need to identify on the way out). She said that she came to Israel to be "free in her country" and cannot fathom the idea of having to prove that she is a 'kosher" Jewess. She was arrested on the spot. Four Gush Katif residents who participated in demonstrations received orders to stay away from Gush Katif forever. Today we are told in the Maariv newspaper that the Egged bus line from Ashkelon to Gush Katif has been cancelled.

And on to the last report from Gush Katif. Yesterday we were told that the security forces plan on carrying out a mass arrest and deportation of all the "illegal" Jews in Gush Katif. Sixty years ago this was called performing an "aktzia" ,when they gathered people and looked to find the Jews amongst them. Proof that the rumor is probably true is the non-stop rounds made over the last few days by Shabak agents, who come in their cars to the different tent cities and areas known to host outside guests - and continuously film and/or take notes. We spent hours at a meeting discussing how to hide the hundreds of such supporters . How low have we sunk that we have to teach our children how to run away from the security forces and to hiding places in order not to be arrested and deported from parts of our own homeland?

After reading all this one may ask: do we have at all a chance to prevent Sharon from implementing his evil decree? And the answer is: YES!!! Our strength is in our numbers. Kfar Maimon proved that we can get together a crowd of over 100,000 committed Jews. In addition, the last few weeks have proven beyond any doubt that as brutal as the police are, the soldiers are with us. And Sharon cannot carry out his plan without the soldiers. For the next two weeks, people must do all they can to find their way into Gush Katif and stay. In addition, all protests and demonstrations must continue and increase in order to keep the police forces busy. Closer to Tisha B'Av, will be when once again the masses we saw in Kfar Maimon will have to gather, and this time, will have to burst into Gush Katif, no matter what the so-called official leaders will say. No force will be able to stop such strength of numbers, especially when it is clear that thousands of soldiers will be joining the Gush Katif supporters. With God's help, we will succeed!.


Nadia Matar

Comments

Hide the following 27 comments

Dilema

08.08.2005 13:09

An interesting post illustrating oppression by a government of women and children, in normal circumstances an article that would receive words of support on Indymedia but of course here things are different, these people are Jews.

Leon


I bet

08.08.2005 13:11

I bet this post will be deleted by the censorship, freedom of speech is not allowed in Indymedia for Jewish extremists only for Islamic extremists

John


Censorship

08.08.2005 13:18


Here's some of those "extremists"

IM


Women in Green

08.08.2005 14:24


"Women in Green" is a truly inspirational movement. I have been fortunate to meet with them on a number of occasions. Their courage in standing up to terrorism through passive resistence is a lesson to us all. Hamas described them as "as big a threat as the IDF"

Jonathan


I wonder . . . .

08.08.2005 14:39

I wonder how many of those young men in the picture will grow up to join the IDF and go on to kill Palestinians for fun ?

ftp


Democracy?

08.08.2005 14:45

If you had any respect for democracy you would know that the majority of Israelis support the withdrawal.

See the link below which shows the latest poll from Yedioth Ahronoth:

 http://www.itn.co.uk/news/1900213.html

Paul Edwards


Democracy?

08.08.2005 15:33

The majority of British people are in favour of restricting all immigration to the UK but that doesn't make it right. The struggle of these people in Israel would be receiving support on the newswire if they weren't Jewish

voter


This is the reality

08.08.2005 15:59

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism.
"For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa. While as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein, March 31, 1977, interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw.

Jew


Fascist foamings ..........

08.08.2005 16:19

Why, EXACTLY, is Indymedia being used as a forum to post the dilemmas of genocidal fascists?

And judging from this thread, its also home to a bunch of zionists!

Don't they have their own websites to glorify genocidal fascism?

BRB


You Made Your Bed, Ma'am

08.08.2005 18:20

"in normal circumstances an article that would receive words of support on Indymedia but of course here things are different, these people are Jews."

Actually, these people are Zionist Extremists. There is a huuuge difference between the two. Your need to maliciously swing the rather dull "Antisemitic Sword" simply demonstrates the emptiness of your position.

If the Zionists had pursued peaceful coexistence, as people such as Gandhi and Einstein urged, instead of ethnic expulsions, terrorism, and Apartheid, there would be no need for any of this. Unfortunately, the creation of Israel was not about the Jewish people. They were simply the group manipulated by the Zionists, in order for them to attain for themselves the wealth and power only a State of their own could provide.

Sad ...

End Zionism's Decades-long War Against Palestine


...

08.08.2005 18:35

Just because their skin is white, and they-re wearing western style clothes, doesn-t mean they are not extremists. Imagine if that photo was of a load of Palestinians, sitting and wearing their traditional clothes. The perception is different because we relate to the lifestyle and appearance of one, and not the other. But people with western styles and tastes are equally capable of extremism as those of oriental apperance and taste.

The nazis were also very fashionable, with a vibrant youth movement.

The settler movement in Gaza supports forcebully stealing the land from the Palestinians, uprooting and destruction of their trees, all because they believe in their Religious Right to the Land, based on a dubious 2000 year old claim. If that is not extremism, I dont know what is. But I tell you what, all the settlers can stay and live in Gaza, as long as all the Palestinian refugees can have the right to return to their stolen lands in Israel. And then the two peoples can live as one in peace and unity.

Hermes


...

08.08.2005 19:18

Regarding the Palestinian people do not exist.

Tell me, who the fuck has been living there for 2000 years? Obviously, after the Romans expelled the Jews from Jerusalem, it just lay completely empty. Have you never heard of the Crusades? I seem to recall that was an attempt by Western imperialists to take control of the Holy Land from, hmmm, ARABS, some 1000 years ago. Funny how history repeats itself.

Palestine did not exist as a country, but as a province of what was a greater Arabia. So imagine the Chinese invade and take over England, and split it up into smaller countries which never existed as countries before, of Devon, Cornwall, York, Manchester...

Imagine they promise the province of Devon to the Zionist movement ( which was never rightfully the Chineses to give away ), and thousands and thousands of Jews arrive in Devon with the intention of building their own country there. I can imagine this would cause some tension amongst the Devonese whose land it is, who wish to still be part of the UK. Then imagine conflict breaks out, Devonese villages are massacred, Cornwall, Somerset and Dorset invade to try and take back the land that was originally part of the UK, but they are defeated because the Zionists are more heavily armed with the support of a friendly superpower.

The result...a huge refugee problem of Devonese who have had their lands stolen from them by an invading force, and the seeds of a conflict that will last for decades.

The Palestinians may not have existed as a national entity before the British, but they were living in that land for millenia. Their lands were stolen, their villages destroyed, and not only that, religious fanatics like the type who posted the original post want to steal MORE of their land, because God supposedly gave it to them.

I hope that the people of Israel will recognise the injustice of what they have done, and come to a peaceful reconciliation and compensation with the Palestinians. I dont know. The first American colonists were able to steal the land of the indigenous Americans through force of arms, and justice has never been done ( ironic how Israels biggest supported is a country built upon land stolen from an indigenous population ). But sometimes the world is unjust. I hope you fail in your persecutions, and your attempt to put a glossy, young and trendy face on fascism. I really hope you fail. But I hope you succeed in seeing the injustice you are supporting, how it is similar to the injustice yo suffered at the hands of the Nazis, and learn from your mistakes, and learn to live in peace with the Palestinians you have wronged so much. You deserve to live anywhere you want to, even in Gaza, which I dont think was even a part of historic Israel 2000 years ago in fact. But so do the Palestinians. If you support the right of people in Gaza not to be evicted, do you support the right of Palestinian farmers not to be evicted for West Bank settlement expansions, or for the building of the apartheid wall?

You possess double standards, built upon a sort of Jewish supremacism which is painful to see, when in the past Jewish philosophers and thinkers used to be the most progressive, leading towards ideas of socialism and universalism. How have your moral standards fallen so far?

Hermes


Wow

09.08.2005 08:48

The IM Jew haters really got caught out by that post didn't they ?

All their attempts to brand these people as Zionist extremists are looking a bit stupid now. When we see these peole are just like us it's hard to hate them isn't it, even if they are Jews

David


...

09.08.2005 12:55

Exactly, David, your post proves my point exactly. These people are just like us, because we are as equally capable of extremism as people who have a darker skin. Look at pictures of Christian Fundamentalists. Smiling and happy, yet holding a fascist ideology.

I once watched this film. It shows a really nice seeming lady, playing in the park. She goes on a swing. She practices some yoga. She seems really happy and pleasant. Then suddenly, at the end of the movie, you see that she's up in a castle with her husband, who happens to be Adolf Hitler. It's a movie that makes you think...a tendency towards extremism and fascism isn't written on your face, or inherent in your culture. The Hitler Youth Brigades were just like us, too. But they were brainwashed by a rabid nationalism and racist supremacism, just like the settler movement in Gaza.

Hermes


Thanks

09.08.2005 16:07

Thanks Hermes for making my point so well. I saw a Palestinian suicide bomber just before he went of a killed a bus full of women and children. Could I see the evil in his eyes or the hate in his heart ? No I just saw a young man wearing a Nike sweat shirt.

David


End Zionism's War

09.08.2005 18:16

"in normal circumstances an article that would receive words of support on Indymedia but of course here things are different, these people are Jews." "The IM Jew haters really got caught out by that post didn't they ?"

Actually, these people are Zionist Extremists. There is a huuuge difference between the two. Your need to maliciously swing the rather dull "Antisemitic Sword" simply demonstrates the emptiness of your position.

If the Zionists had pursued peaceful coexistence, as people such as Gandhi and Einstein urged, instead of ethnic expulsions, terrorism, and Apartheid, there would be no need for any of this. Unfortunately, the creation of Israel was not about the Jewish people. They were simply the group manipulated by the Zionists, in order for them to attain for themselves the wealth and power only a State of their own could provide.

Sad ...

The Settlements being withdrawn are the nearly-deserted, poor ones. While the media is Distracted by this PR display, the construction of larger, better-funded Settlements continues, as does Zionist Expansionism.


End Zionism's Decades-long War Against Palestine


...

09.08.2005 18:19

I'm glad we agree with each other. People are people and do these things for what they believe are good reasons, and because of the opinions of people around them and the conditions they live in.

The Nazis used to be very cultured. They would cry in operas, had sophisticated science, fashionable, high culture. And then they would go and kill jews, romany, homosexuals in concentration camps. But that was the nasty underside of all they were hoping to accomplish. The foremost thing in their minds was the glory of the Aryan state, the german people, and how they would be great again. And in order to accomplish this 'beautiful' dream, they treated the people who stood in their way as less than animals.

The ideology of Zionism, or Islamic Fundamentalism, can be beautiful. It creates a wonderful dream in your mind of how the world could be modelled. Islamic fundamentalists aren't so concerned with a world in which they kill everyone they don't like, but a world in which everyone obeys the will of Allah as brothers, and a kind of romantic dream of what the Islamic caliphate could be like. And in order to do that they will kill homosexuals, pagans, jews...
Zionist fundamentalism isn't about killing Palestinians. It is about creating the Jewish state, where the Jews can live as brothers, making the desert bloom, working in the kibbutzes. It's a nice dream. But in order to make that dream, it involves evicting the Palestinians from their land and putting them under a terrible militiary occupation. The arabs become less civilised, barbaric, because they don't understand the dream that you have.

All have as their core principle a beautiful idea of brotherhood and progress....the glorious Aryan nation, the holy Islamic caliphate, the wonderful Jewish State. And all are so blinded by these ideas, that when people stand in their way, they come to hate them with all their heart, and murder, steal and oppress.

So look deep inside at the values you hold, and ask yourself if you're not simply repeating the same mistake that the people who oppressed you decades before made.

Hermes


great article

10.08.2005 01:26

I'm also sure that nazis looked cute when they were at a family gathering with their kids. So posting pictures of people living on occupied land all happy and smiling - well, anyone with any intelligence will understand that pictures can show totally different things in different contexts. I mean, every suicide bomber must have been cute as a baby? No?

And I'm not saying that all the jews living in the gaza strip are nazi (far from it), but they MUST KNOW that the land they moved onto was seized from palestinians. Any normal person would realise this is not the place to live. Sure the Israeli government has a lot of the blame by getting them to move their for their own cynical reasons, but common - you don't need to be a genius to understand that stealing land and killing people for their land doesn't give you the right to live there.

Thank god for indymedia and a variety of views. Only a nazi would decry such a source of information.

but im cynical


H'am Im Gush Katif

10.08.2005 15:38

"The Hitler Youth Brigades were just like us, too"

Well - maybe they are just like you and your extreme leftie cronies, Hermes. You of course share and obsession with and hatred of the Jews.

Sure there are extremist Jews in Gaza; some of them have known no other home and were born there and do not wish to leave. But they will be removed to give the land to people run by gangster terrorsists who will not act in the best interests of their own people, who will exploit their positions and who will turn Gaza into a terrorist state.

The PA have not renounced violence and the Palestinian people will be worse off. They will use the death penalty, deny women their rights, disallow free press, religion and speech.

But the idea of Jews having a land themselves is of course so sickening to you that it must be worth it....

Ani Im Gush Katif


congratulations

10.08.2005 16:26

Congrats Hermes for the most lucid and sensible comments on this subject in a long time. The complaints of ill-treatment in the original post mirror the endless reports we recieve from ISM volunteers in Palestine/West Bank and Gaza/the Occupied Territories on the daily treatment of Palestinians in their own country. Why is it then surprising to the settlers, that they should be treated similarly when they decide to go on occupying others' land even in the face of decrees from their own (secular) leaders. In facing police oppression they should of course be extended some degree of sympathy. But only the same degree of sympathy I've got when being violently removed from a squat or protest. Tough luck, I'm afraid. But as the spearhead of an imperialist and colonialst ideology, you should feel lucky that your illegal occupations have recieved US and Israeli financial, infrastructrual and security support (you've been supplied with guns for god's sake!) for so long.

anarchoteapot


...

10.08.2005 22:54

Interesting Ani Im, that when your ideology is cut out from under you, you resort to ranting, and showing that kind of racist colonial mentality the British used to show during the days of empire.

'They'll be worse off when they're not under our militiary occupation'.

Yeah right. The thing about bringing back the death penalty is a right laugh, seeing as Israeli troops arbitrarily murder anybody they like, including women, children and international volunteers.

At least without militiary occupation, without the checkpoints, they won't have to wait 6 hours to get to a village 10 km away. At least they won't have to suffer their land being stolen from them in order to build a stupid wall. At least they'll know their house won't be arbitrarily demolished because it's deemed too close to illegal Israeli settlements. Maybe they'll live under another shitty dictatorship or maybe not. You don't know until you give them the right to self-determination. Suffice to say, even living under a shitty dictatorship than under Israeli militiary occupation. You cannot argue the standard of living of an arab in Syria, or Egypt, or in Iran, is remotely as bad as in Gaza.

I notice when I undercut your ideology, you don't offer any argument to the contrary, you simply call me jew obsessed. Well, I do find the idea of a jewish state disgusting, in the same way I find the idea of a white state disgusting. I don't believe in these arbitrary designations of 'states', and I believe in one world, where the people are united, living and working together as brothers. You may say that I'm I dreamer, but I'm not the only one. Your ideology of seperation, a seperate place for the jews, is the same ideology as the nazis, who also wanted to be seperate from the jews. It is for that reason the world zionist organisation and the nazi party even WORKED TOGETHER in the beginning to try and get the jews out of germany and into Palestine. There's a good historical article called 'A nazi visits Palestine', which may open your eyes.

You have every right to be in Palestine. So do the Palestinians. You have every right to build a settlement, as long as that land hasn't been stolen by force, and as long as the Palestinians have the right to build what they want in Israel. I want the Palestinians and Israelis to live as brothers, together, in one state. I want zionism to stop damaging the name of Judaism. Stop manipulating the use of 'anti-semitic'. Albert Einstein was against the creation of a jewish state, if it meant conflict with it's neighbours. He stated the whole idea of a state with an army and borders was anathema to progressive judaism, of which he was a prime example.

Do you therefore disown Einstein? Is he a self-hating jew?

My 'obsession' with this subject stems from the fact that suicide bombers are willing to blow themselves up in New York and London over this issue, and as Robin Cook said, if we had brought peace to Israel and Palestine instead of bringing war to Iraq, we would not be in this stupid 'war on terror' which has made our lives more dangerous. Tony Blair is trying to pass draconian laws in England, and this can be traced back, cause and effect, not to the situation with China and Tibet, or the Sudan, but to Israel and Palestine. Maybe I'm selfish, only caring about my own safety and the safety of those I love. But to be frank, I don't like seeing us all drawn into Israel and the US's war against Islam.

Neo-conservatism and zionism are working to make the world a more dangerous place, for selfish imperial interests. It is not just morally wrong, from the standpoint of the strong oppressing the weak Palestinians, it is also stupid, because it generates a backlash of terrorism, which could easily grow out of control, as thousands of mujahadeen get free first-class training, picking off the US troops, in the cities of Iraq.

Great...thanks for making our world a 'safer place'.

Hermes


Your Sword Is Dull

11.08.2005 02:04

"But the idea of Jews having a land themselves is of course ..."

It's called APARTHEID. If you had listened to Gandhi, Einstein, etc. and established a state where all could live in peace - as Jews & Palestinians did before Zionists arrived from Europe to polarize the region with their Cult Propaganda/Mythology, Terrorism, and Ethnic Cleansing, I might feel differently.

But this was never about Jews. This was about a small, violent Cult, who wished to gain for themselves the wealth and power only a State of their own could provide, and which European society had not provided.

Zionism Is Not Judaism


Still at it Hermes

11.08.2005 09:16

" Well, I do find the idea of a jewish state disgusting" No shit - Heaven forbid we should not remain homeless, dependant on the goodwill and charity of other nations. Of course it would be nice if anti semites from the extreme left and right (such as yourself) learnt to stop treating us differently, but as consistently this has not happened for thousands of years; then excuse us for wanting a home.



" Your ideology of seperation, a seperate place for the jews, is the same ideology as the nazis, who also wanted to be seperate from the jews." - Or your shared ideology, a World where Jews suffers.


" It is for that reason the world zionist organisation and the nazi party even WORKED TOGETHER in the beginning to try and get the jews out of germany and into Palestine. " Absolute rubbish, every account of this has been ridiculed, the idea of Nazis and Jews working together is a joke and nothing but a revisionist lie. The Palestinians did, Haj Amin Al Husseini, a good friend of Hitler, offered to set up death camps if the Nazi invaded against the British Mandate.

Hermes, have you ever protested outside the Iranian embassy, or even posted a single letter, against the Iranian State, for being an Islamic country. No - I bet you have not. You wish to destroy all states, but lets start with the Jewish one



Jewish & Proud


Hermes you plonker

11.08.2005 12:52

Hermes, this is an example of 'Jewish collaberation with the Nazis' showing the extent to which the evil filthy jews (whoops - Zionists) secured the compliance of the Nazis in helping to get the Jews out of the Nazi run countries;

 http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/month_in_holocaust/june/june_lexicon/parachutists.html

A group of Jewish volunteers from Palestine who were sent on missions to several countries in Nazi-occupied Europe between 1943-1945.

The Origin of the Plan.
The idea of sending emissaries from the Jewish community in Palestine (Yishuv) to encourage the Jews in the Nazi-dominated countries, to organize their resistance, and to try to rescue them, had developed in the fall of 1942. In the absence of independent means for transporting the emissaries, the Jewish Agency for Palestine had to apply to the British and resort to secret cooperation with the British Special Operations Executive (SOE) and the British intelligence service.
British Agreement.
In early 1943, the British rejected the more ambitious proposals of the Jewish Agency to send hundreds of volunteers into Nazi-occupied territory. Recognizing, however, the special motivation of the volunteers, their linguistic skills, and their knowledge of the terrain in the target countries, the British were prepared to drop individual parachutist agents. The SOE intended to employ them as wireless operators and instructors with its liaison missions to the partisans. MI 9, the military intelligence branch in charge of prisoners of war, assigned the volunteers to the task of rescuing prisoners of war, escapees, and men who had evaded captivity. The British consented to the volunteers' double role as British agents and Jewish emissaries.
The Candidates for the Mission and Their Fate.
The candidates were selected from members of the German and Balkan sections of the Palmah (the strike force of the Hagana, the Yishuv's underground army), Jewish volunteers serving in the British army, and activists of pioneering youth movements who had recently immigrated to Palestine from the target countries. About 250 men and women volunteered; 110 underwent training, but owing to operational and technical difficulties, only 32 were actually dropped and 5 infiltrated into the target countries. Of the 37, 12 were captured and 7 executed by the Germans. Zvi Ben-Yaakov, Rafael Reiss, and Haviva Reik were captured in October 1944 during the Slovak National Uprising, imprisoned in Bansk Bystrica, and taken to Kremnica, where they were executed. Abba Berdiczew was captured in Slovakia in October 1944 and taken to Bratislava, where he was tried by a military court and executed. Peretz Goldstein and Hannah Szenes were captured in Hungary. Szenes was executed by a firing squad in Budapest on November 7, 1944, and Goldstein was apparently sent to the Oranienburg concentration camp, where he was killed. Enzo Sereni was captured in Italy, sent to Dachau, and executed there. Adolph Rabinowicz jumped seven times in France before he was captured and executed. The first parachutist, Peretz Rosenberg, was dropped in Yugoslavia in May 1943. The last one, Chaim Waldner, was dropped in southern Austria on the last day of the war. Three parachutists were infiltrated into Hungary, five participated in the Slovak National Uprising, and six operated in northern Italy. Two were infiltrated into Bulgaria after its liberation by the Soviet army. Nine parachutists operated in Romania, where they succeeded in aiding Allied prisoners of war during the interim period after the Romanian capitulation and in organizing immigration to Palestine. Ten served with the British liaison missions to the Yugoslav partisans, and one was sent to France.
Missions That Never Materialized.
The Jewish parachutists were meant to be only a spearhead of larger groups following them. But the missions of the latter did not materialize, because of British political reservations, insurmountable operational obstacles, or the liberation of the target country.

Stop rewriting of history


...

11.08.2005 13:41

Read about the Haavarah agreement, you plonker.

Have you got some evidence that contradicts what I'm saying here? The following comes from a book written by a holocaust survivor.

Source: S. Friedlaender, Chapter 2 in: *Nazi Germany and
the Jews , Vol I -
The Years of Persecution 1933-1939

 http://student.cs.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/php/art.php?aid=1237

The so-called Haavarah ([or Ha'avarah] Hebrew: Transfer) Agreement, concluded on August 27, 1933, between the German Ministry of the Economy and Zionist representatives from Germany and Palestine, allowed Jewish emigrants indirect transfer of part of their assets and facilitated exports of goods from Nazi Germany to Palestine. As a result, some one hundred milliReichsmarks were transferred to Palestine, and most of the sixty thousand German Jews who arrived in that country during 1933-1939 could thereby ensure a minimal basis for their material existence. Economic agreement and some measure of co-operation in easing Jewish emigration from Germany (and in 1938 and 1939) from post-Anschluss Austria and German-occupied Bohemia-Moravia) to Palestine, were of course purely instrumental. The Zionist had no doubts about the Nazis' evil designs on the Jews, and the Nazis considered the Zionists first and foremost Jews. About Zionism itself, moreover, Nazi ideology and Nazi policies were divided from the outset: while favouring, like all other European extreme anti-Semites, Zionism as a means of enticing the Jews to leave Europe, they also considered the Zionist Organisation established in Basel in 1897 as a key element of the Jewish world conspiracy - a Jewish state in Palestine would be a kind of Vatican co-ordinating Jewish scheming all over the world. Such necessary but unholy contacts between Zionists and Nazis nonetheless continued up to the beginning (and into) the war. One of the main benefits the new regime hoped to reap from the Haavarah was a breach in the foreign Jewish economic boycott of Germany. The Nazi fears of a significant Jewish boycott were, in fact, basically unreal, but Zionist policy responded to what the Germans hoped to achieve. The Zionist organisations and the leadership of the Yishuv (the Jewish community in Palestine) distanced themselves from any form of mass protest or boycott to avoid creating obstacles to the new arrangements. Even before the conclusion of the Haavarah Agreement, such “co-operation” sometimes took bizarre forms. Thus, in early 1933, Baron Leopold Itz Edler von Mildenstein, a man who a few years later was to become chief of the Jewish section of the SD (the Sicherheitsdienst, or security service, the SS intelligence branch headed by Reinhard Heydrich), was invited along with his wife to tour Palestine and to write a series of articles for Goebbels´s Der Angriff. And so it was that the Mildensteins, accompanied by Kurt Tuchler, a leading member of the Berlin Zionist Organisation, and his wife, visited Jewish settlements in Eretz Israel. The highly positive articles, entitled “A Nazi Visits Palestine,” were duly published, and, to mark the occasion, a special medallion cast, with a swastika on one side and a Star of David on the other. Seen from the perspective of 1933 and in the light of Nazi interests at the time, the Angriff series may have looked less strange than they appear today. The same can be said about the memorandum sent to Hitler by the leaders of the Zionist Organisation for Germany on June 22, 1933. In Francis Nicosia´s words, It seemed to profess a degree of sympathy for the voelkisch principles of the Hitler regime and argued that Zionism was compatible with these principles.' This compatibility was clearly defined: Zionism believes that the rebirth of the national life of a people, which is now occurring in Germany through the emphasis on its Christian and national character, must also come about among the Jewish people. For the Jewish people, too, national origin, religion, common destiny and a sense of its uniqueness must be of decisive importance to its existence. This demands the elimination of the egotistical individualism of the liberal era, and its replacement with a sense of community and collective responsibility.' It further demanded for the Jews a place in the overall structure, based on the race principle, established by National Socialism, so that they too, in the sphere allocated to them, could make a fruitful contribution to the life of the fatherland.

Hermes


...

11.08.2005 20:01

Quote again from that article

"Zionism believes that the rebirth of the national life of a people, which is now occurring in Germany through the emphasis on its Christian and national character, must also come about among the Jewish people"

So even the nazis thought that zionism was similar to what was happening with them in Germany.

Anyway, about protesting at the Iranian embassy...well, I don't believe in nation states, but at least the Iranian people have lived in that land for thousands of years. The Israelis, on the other hand, came from Europe and other middle eastern countries, evicted the indigenous population, and built a whole new state on the ruins of their villages.

Notice how many of us on Indymedia are concerned with the same things. Before, there was the situation with South Africa, where the whites were persecuting the black indigenous population. Many of us care about indigenous rights in the Americas, Maori rights in new zealand, Aboriginal rights in Australia. In all these cases a colonising power has come and stolen their land, and made them live in terrible conditions. And surprise surprise, Israel falls into the same category.

And also, the terrible things that Iran, or China, or Zimbabwe does, they do independently of western leaders who we hope, at least, we can affect in some way. Israel could not survive if not for billions of dollars in US aid. In order to create a profound change in the situation, we only have to succeed in persuading them to cut the money flow, or threaten to cut it off, and a more even situation could come about. Iran is already a country our government cut itself off from.

Hermes


Saving Jewish lives (an idea which will upset Hermes)

12.08.2005 11:52

J&P is slightly mistaken - there was an agreement in the early days of the third reich - bit consider this Hermes:

Does it occur to you perhaps that the Zionists might have done the Haavarah agreement in order to save Jewish lives? The life of my uncle Ze'ev, who spent his life on a kibbutz beart Haifa was one of those lives saved. Omiyeh, not that it matters to you, but none of the rest of the world was prepared to take in more than token numbers of German Jews and later of East European Jews. In the first years after 1933, the Nazis were intent on driving Jews out of Germany--though they had already imprisoned many and murdered some as early as the first year in power. By the late 1930's things were moving rapidly toward genocide. My own mother, Owmiyeh, who was born in 1924 and raised in Berlin, had nowhere to go because by the time she and her mother fled in 1938, Palestine was already effectively closed by the British. Fortunately, there was some money in the family (there is that damn Jewish money again, eh Owmiyeh?) with which they bought fake Ecuadorian visas, which made it possible for them to get onto a sealed train across Spain from southern France to Portugal in 1940 after the Nazis had arrived in southern France where they had taken temporary shelter. Most of the German Jewish refugees whom my mother knew in Nice in 1938-40 ended up being murdered. Well, its a long story in my mother's case, Owlmiyeh, but she and her mother managed to get to New York via Cuba by 1941 with all of their money gone and my formerly wealthy grandmother spending the remainder of her life working in a hat factory. They were among the relative few of the lucky ones who survived. One of out of every three Jews in the world were slaughtered by Hitler, Owmiyeh. Try to imagine what the impact on any people would be to lose one out of three. The Haavara agreement saved, I'm not sure how many German Jews--perhaps 50,000-75,000. But in your mind, apparently, the Zionists were Nazis for having saved a handful of their own people from extermination from the Nazis. To be accepted as good guys in your mind, the German Jews ought to have sat there passively until the Nazis came to murder them.





Walter


Upcoming Coverage
View and post events
Upcoming Events UK
24th October, London: 2015 London Anarchist Bookfair
2nd - 8th November: Wrexham, Wales, UK & Everywhere: Week of Action Against the North Wales Prison & the Prison Industrial Complex. Cymraeg: Wythnos o Weithredu yn Erbyn Carchar Gogledd Cymru

Ongoing UK
Every Tuesday 6pm-8pm, Yorkshire: Demo/vigil at NSA/NRO Menwith Hill US Spy Base More info: CAAB.

Every Tuesday, UK & worldwide: Counter Terror Tuesdays. Call the US Embassy nearest to you to protest Obama's Terror Tuesdays. More info here

Every day, London: Vigil for Julian Assange outside Ecuadorian Embassy

Parliament Sq Protest: see topic page
Ongoing Global
Rossport, Ireland: see topic page
Israel-Palestine: Israel Indymedia | Palestine Indymedia
Oaxaca: Chiapas Indymedia
Regions
All Regions
Birmingham
Cambridge
Liverpool
London
Oxford
Sheffield
South Coast
Wales
World
Other Local IMCs
Bristol/South West
Nottingham
Scotland
Social Media
You can follow @ukindymedia on indy.im and Twitter. We are working on a Twitter policy. We do not use Facebook, and advise you not to either.
Support Us
We need help paying the bills for hosting this site, please consider supporting us financially.
Other Media Projects
Schnews
Dissident Island Radio
Corporate Watch
Media Lens
VisionOnTV
Earth First! Action Update
Earth First! Action Reports
Topics
All Topics
Afghanistan
Analysis
Animal Liberation
Anti-Nuclear
Anti-militarism
Anti-racism
Bio-technology
Climate Chaos
Culture
Ecology
Education
Energy Crisis
Fracking
Free Spaces
Gender
Globalisation
Health
History
Indymedia
Iraq
Migration
Ocean Defence
Other Press
Palestine
Policing
Public sector cuts
Repression
Social Struggles
Technology
Terror War
Workers' Movements
Zapatista
Major Reports
NATO 2014
G8 2013
Workfare
2011 Census Resistance
Occupy Everywhere
August Riots
Dale Farm
J30 Strike
Flotilla to Gaza
Mayday 2010
Tar Sands
G20 London Summit
University Occupations for Gaza
Guantanamo
Indymedia Server Seizure
COP15 Climate Summit 2009
Carmel Agrexco
G8 Japan 2008
SHAC
Stop Sequani
Stop RWB
Climate Camp 2008
Oaxaca Uprising
Rossport Solidarity
Smash EDO
SOCPA
Past Major Reports
Encrypted Page
You are viewing this page using an encrypted connection. If you bookmark this page or send its address in an email you might want to use the un-encrypted address of this page.
If you recieved a warning about an untrusted root certificate please install the CAcert root certificate, for more information see the security page.

Global IMC Network


www.indymedia.org

Projects
print
radio
satellite tv
video

Africa

Europe
antwerpen
armenia
athens
austria
barcelona
belarus
belgium
belgrade
brussels
bulgaria
calabria
croatia
cyprus
emilia-romagna
estrecho / madiaq
galiza
germany
grenoble
hungary
ireland
istanbul
italy
la plana
liege
liguria
lille
linksunten
lombardia
madrid
malta
marseille
nantes
napoli
netherlands
northern england
nottingham imc
paris/île-de-france
patras
piemonte
poland
portugal
roma
romania
russia
sardegna
scotland
sverige
switzerland
torun
toscana
ukraine
united kingdom
valencia

Latin America
argentina
bolivia
chiapas
chile
chile sur
cmi brasil
cmi sucre
colombia
ecuador
mexico
peru
puerto rico
qollasuyu
rosario
santiago
tijuana
uruguay
valparaiso
venezuela

Oceania
aotearoa
brisbane
burma
darwin
jakarta
manila
melbourne
perth
qc
sydney

South Asia
india


United States
arizona
arkansas
asheville
atlanta
Austin
binghamton
boston
buffalo
chicago
cleveland
colorado
columbus
dc
hawaii
houston
hudson mohawk
kansas city
la
madison
maine
miami
michigan
milwaukee
minneapolis/st. paul
new hampshire
new jersey
new mexico
new orleans
north carolina
north texas
nyc
oklahoma
philadelphia
pittsburgh
portland
richmond
rochester
rogue valley
saint louis
san diego
san francisco
san francisco bay area
santa barbara
santa cruz, ca
sarasota
seattle
tampa bay
united states
urbana-champaign
vermont
western mass
worcester

West Asia
Armenia
Beirut
Israel
Palestine

Topics
biotech

Process
fbi/legal updates
mailing lists
process & imc docs
tech