We failed to stop the destruction of Afghanistan, we failed to stop the annihilation of Iraq and we will fail to stop Iran from being attacked with tactical nuclear weapons, if all we ever do is protest to deaf ears.

Go on, you know you want to do it!! Make Zorro and all the other spook trolls on Indymedia's day - plan a spectacular but ultimately futile gesture which will allow government to outlaw all dissent. You'd love the chance to visit a warm middle eastern clime, meet new people and have them entertain your genitals with wire electrodes.

Remember, nothing mobilises protest quite like finding out that people you never heard of did something you don't understand somewhere you don't care about.

Ive thought of a better idea than stop the war or bring the troops home, how about Stop SWP.

If we all meet in central London and walk from point A to point B, maybe we can stop the evils of the SWP.

Anyway joking aside, it gets right up my nose all of those tossers handing out the Swappie mags and trying to dominate everything.

Why dont they fuck off to Mars or something?

Bill: If this gesture is so futile - presumably because you don't view it as 'direct' enough action, ie not dissenting enough - then how is it also a route to allowing the government to "outlaw all dissent?" Or maybe any form of protest is simply a tool for the government to ban dissent, in which case we should all stay at home and agree with Blair as much as possible, in order to force him to stop bombing people, and reinstate civil liberties he has removed.

Exasperated: yes I agree, 'stopping' the SWP would definitely be a more productive action than stopping a war. I am guessing that you have written more sarcastic posts about them on Indymedia than you've written letters to them explaining what you dislike about their tactics, and possible alternatives? Maybe "fucking off to Mars" would be a tactic you could suggest they use, since that would bring us nearer to removing global capitalism than going on a stoopid demo. (Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're wonderful either.)

Since the demonstrations which reversed the electoral decision in the Ukraine, I've heard and seen many Ukrainians talking about large groups of foreigners who were pivotal to their planning. Many of these groups were the ones responsible for paying for the food, shelter, and orange banners used by the protestors. I didn't think much of this, or the accusations of funding from agencies such as the CIA, until I saw the same thing occuring in Lebanon.

Then, a reporter for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation ( http://www.cbc.ca), Carol Off, did a piece explaining that the "spontaneous, grassroots" protests in the Ukraine were the result of CIA funding and planning over a period of ten years.

Sadly, the report lauded these tactics of Regime Change, but nonetheless, proved my point.

One thing I've noticed is the tightly-controlled Western media's willingness to ignore the unsubstantiated allegations made in Syria and Lebanon that the Central Intelligence Agency, or Israel's Mossad, or both, were responsible for actions like the assassination of Rafiq Hariri, and behind the recent Opposition Movements, while at the same time, parroting over and over the same unsubstantiated claims about Syria, emanating from the White House den of LIARS and thieves. Even media outlets which I consider better than the rest, like the CBC, are guilty of such irresponsibility. When pro-Syrian demonstrators turned out in the hundreds of thousands, proving the anti-Syrians to be the minority voice, the media downplayed these numbers.

Just feels a bit too staged for my taste ... What I find the most irresonsible about all of this is the fact that whoever is behind this, they are attempting (and succeeding) to divide the Lebanese People, and cause conflict both within the country, and towards Syria. This, of course, aids the Israelis and PNAC Americans, who both have an interest, and want to invade and occupy Syria (and perhaps Lebanon as well), as called for repeatedly by the agenda which has seen Bush/PNAC illegally invade two Arab nations already.

The CBC chose Janice Stein, a Zionist "Middle East Expert" to comment on the situation, and she said when she saw the demonstrations she "saw the colour orange". This was after the first anti-Syrian demo, when the colour scheme wasn't so pronounced. Since then, orange flags, placards, etc. have started "spontaneously" appearing in great numbers.

When I was in university, my Design professor brought in some Colour Researchers from the University of Edmonton, who lectured on the psychological, but also the PHYSICAL effects, colours have on the human body and mind. This red-orange colour is one of the "comfort colours", and you will no doubt remember seeing it in countless commercials (ING Direct, and the creepy, stereotypical European banker, anyone ... ?).

Since the CIA, or Mossad, or whoever is ultimately behind these carefully stage-managed displays, you know they understand what they're doing. I believe that we should be taking a cue from them, and striking while the iron is hot.

This orange colour scheme has been carefully crafted in order to transmit "armchair understanding" of these two manufactured crises.

Even though it was our Enemy putting it out there, for their own purposes, we should seize the opportunity to claim it for ourselves. After all, we have been granted an unprecedented look inside the CIA's "Handbook for Non-Violent Revolution", and you know damn well that they have studied all of the relevant psychological factors.

If you are to protest, from now on, DRESS IN ORANGE, and CARRY SIGNS OF ORANGE, rally at the feet of power, and the media, DEMANDING that the democratic Will of the People not be ignored. I guarantee this will send an instant message, not only to the Bush/PNAC/Bliar Regime, but to all Americans and to the world that sees it.

Keep your signs easy to read and understand, things such as "FIRE THE LIARS", "INVESTIGATE, IMPEACH, PROSECUTE" and at media centres, "LIARS", or "TRAITORS", or "COWARDS".

Groups should design some Talking Points, and designate members to speak with the reporters on-scene. In larger centres, you should inform the media of what's going to happen, and call the stations' News Director or Assignment Editor, and request to be interviewed. You could even take it further, and offer your services as an Activist Analyst for the day, just like they use ex-military personnel, and members of Right-Wing "Think-Tanks".

Let's test these LIARS and War Criminals, and their media puppets, and see just how much they truly respect "Freedom & Democracy", the words upon which they attempt to justify the attrocities upon which they've built their fortunes.

Regardless of what happens, the message will be sent. We have nothing to lose. If something comes of this, then great. Follow up and celebrate. If the rallies are ignored, or treated by the police as those in the past, then you've just PROVEN these men to be the Hypocrites we all know them to be.

I'd like to see as many people as can not simply Rally for a few hours, but for DAYS. Those who cannot make it there, plan and hold your own local rallies, and not only gather where your Government officials meet, but also where the media does its business.

Let's take this thing that was designed to dupe people into supporting what the Fascists in DC want, and turn it on its head.

Let's use it as a tool for bringing that Fascism to its knees, and demonstrate the good intentions that were to be assumed about the "Orange Revolutionaries".

Remember, that we are the Majority, and Truth is our greatest Ally.

The only way we can fail, is if we fail to ACT.

P E A C E . . . ?

"No matter how far you have traveled down the wrong road, turn back"
- Ancient Egyptian Proverb

Hmmm, one 'human' post from ZORRO, and 5 posts from Blair's people- about the ratio I'd expect on indymedia these days. Anyway, screw the psy-ops. It there was any real anti-war movement in Britain, it would have put up candidates against Blair across the whole of the UK during the last election. That notable and significant failure allows Blair to claim legitamacy now, regardless of the tiny minority of all possible voters that chose Labour at the last election.

For the humans that visit this site (and frankly, why do you bother, there are vastly better political forums that hold together the last of humanities opposition to Blair's evil) stop worrying, and accept your fate with dignity. The time to stop Blair is over. We've blown it, and events are going to run to their complete, horrific conclusion. Blair's upcoming extermination of millions in Iran is merely the beginning. Believe me, you do not want to even imagine the final chapter of the book Blair will write with our blood.

These are our dying days, and we should act accordingly. We have families and friends to honour and love. While everything good in our society dies, every human right removed, every law perverted, every official corrupted, every mass media outlet a torrent of lies and hate, we still have the rules and values that WE follow at an individual level. Blair can, and will work harder than any other monster in history to make us despair, so that fear and hopelessness rules our hearts, the only state that allows true evil to recruit humans that have no natural tendency to be evil themselves.

We must work harder still to understand every good, decent aspect of life that we can personally uphold, even while things turn to hell around us. Good deeds, good advice, caring for others through a loving instinct, actively valueing all the good qualities in others. We can fight for our own individual piece of heaven even in the midst of Blair imposing his global Hell.

Please, if you DO want to actively opposed Blair, DO NOT follow the psy-op advice here and be a good little sheep at one of Blair's carefully arranged 'anti-Blair' protests- these are designed to maximise your despair in the standard psychological warfare game called "teacher knows best, and will ignore ANY number of naughty children, for their OWN good".

Instead, research the methods of Brian Haw in London, and Cindy Sheeman in Texas, and understand how to peacefully protest in a way that REALLY rips into the bad guys. Remember, if Blair permits it, Blair has ARRANGED it!!!

This is a message to exasperated.
Get a life young man!! Get out a bit! You are sounding like a sad git who has been sat at the computer for far too long!
Dr Ivan

What about the 300,000 dead found in Iraqi mass graves? How can you say the decision to oust Saddams' brutal regime was wrong after the discovery of those mass graves?

I for one will be on the demo because if you are not you are implicitly condoning government policy. To those who say we achieved nothing have you not been reading the alternative media, the USA is bogged down in Iraq and dare not go into Iran as public opinion is turning against the occupation of Iraq never mind another invasion of another country same for the UK also thousands of soldiers have gone AWOL because of Iraq just like Vietnam, recruitment has dropped so much Bush is contemplating the draft so those who said we have achieved nothing look again and get on the demo. To the SWPphobe whatis wrong with a organisation being their to sell their publications I notice you said nothing about The Socialist Party, Workers Liberty etc is it because they are totally insignificant and you see the SWP as some sort of threst to your politics?

It's easy to slag off StW/CND/MAB for calling another protest march - and even easier to moan on about the SWP, even if it is starting to sound a bit obsessive!

But what I don't see is anyone suggesting an alternative. What is Plan B? Are we really going to just sit back and snipe without trying to organise anything better instead? And if so, won't people be entirely justified in dismissing us as self-satisfied yet ineffectual?

As it stands I think I'll go on the march. At least it's something real - at least it'll be big and loud and diverse - at least it might inspire or at least encourage the people on it - at least it'll send a message of solidarity to folk in Iraq and Afghanistan - at least it'll piss off Blair - at least it's not just posting smug little diatribes on a fucking website.

Stop the War Coalition:
 http://www.stopwar.org.uk

"at least it's not just posting smug little diatribes on a fucking website."

Best point I've heard all day. Now let's organise a massive demonstration and if you don't like the nasty ickle SWPers, darlings, JUST IGNORE THEM!!!

It was wrong to invade as 100,000 have been killed since and 1,000,000+ were killed by sanctions. I never supported Saddam I was on demos when he gassed the Kurds but it should have been the Iraqi people who got rid of Saddam. Where were the people who most wanted the invasion in 2003 when Saddam was gassing the Kurds at least one of them was selling him the materials to do so.

If any of you were really serious about stopping these imperialist wankers you would condemn swp in all its hats , get on the streets and stay on the streets. STWC started with one and a half million day trippers taking photos of each other having fun and at last count with five thousand idiots (with forthy thousand swp placards and a hundred thousand spare papers) marching A to B state permitted stroll..

Wake fucking up and smell the shit and the above should stop pretending to be concerned cos we know your agenda !

I do feel for you poor Anarchists.

Imagine all five of you being forced marched from Hampstead Heath down to Hyde Park by the SWP just to march from A to B again.

It does so frightfully interrupt one’s work-brunch on the power Mac at Starbucks.

And despite this clear and present sacrifice on your part on several occasions, Blair refuses to bring the troops home! Has this man not heard of consensus resolution 9.2(a)(ii)(j)/32.11-(876)(i)(d) which was duly passed at last months convergence centre facilitation dissent session meeting demanding troops out now? Or was it US troops out, UN troops in? Or was it US troops in with UN helmets? Well whatever it was the meeting was filmed from 20 different angles so there is a clear record of even if you are a little unclear on the details.

Things were never meant to be this difficult. No wonder you are frustrated.

Doubtless those in Iraq feel your pain. Or they would if they had time.

What’s that you say? Surely there must be an easier way? A quicker way? A way that we can stop the war AND look sexy? Perhaps some direct action. Yes damn it ACTION is what is required.

Size is not the issue here. The purity of your intentions is what counts. You will need a big banner, a couple of people that have completed that abseiling course Tarqin has been raving about, and cameras to record it all so we can shock pa-pa when he returns from abroad.

Good luck and keep us posted.

You cant' stop an imperialist war without stopping capitalism, that is the root of the Iraq war and all the others in the past.

I do feel for you poor Anarchists.

Imagine all five of you being forced marched from Hampstead Heath down to Hyde Park by the SWP just to march from A to B again.

It does so frightfully interrupt one’s work-brunch on the power Mac at Starbucks.

And despite this clear and present sacrifice on your part on several occasions, Blair refuses to bring the troops home! Has this man not heard of consensus resolution 9.2(a)(ii)(j)/32.11-(876)(i)(d) which was duly passed at last months convergence centre facilitation dissent session meeting demanding troops out now? Or was it US troops out, UN troops in? Or was it US troops in with UN helmets? Well whatever it was the meeting was filmed from 20 different angles so there is a clear record even if you are a little unclear on the details.

Things were never meant to be this difficult. No wonder you are frustrated.

Doubtless those in Iraq feel your pain. Or they would if they had time.

What’s that you say? Surely there must be an easier way? A quicker way? A way that we can stop the war AND look sexy? Perhaps some direct action. Yes damn it ACTION is what is required.

Size is not the issue here. The purity of your intentions is what counts. You will need a big banner, a couple of people that have completed that abseiling course Tarqin has been raving about, and cameras to record it all so we can shock pa-pa when he returns from abroad.

Good luck and keep us posted.

I think this demo is one of the most important STWC has organised to date.Why?

1) Tony Blair desperately wants people to avoid the link between the bombs and the Iraq war- hardly any of the mainstream media is prepared to make the link.

2) Our Civil liberties are being tested, deportations, shoot to kill policies and false imprisonment have all increased.

3) We have to provide solidarity to our muslim brothers & sisiters, they are the ones who have suffered most from the backlash in terms of racially motivated physical attacks, from the mainstream media witch hunt and from the New Labour Govt demonisation.

4) Killing of iraq's and troops to come home before xmas.

It is likely that the muslims will be out in force on this demo, it is important that they are accompanied by all sections of the UK society and that we are on their side. This will help build further links with the muslim community and show the world that we have more in common with these people than we ever will have with the warmongers.

All over the country people are toatally pissed off and frustrated with Blair, this is not a pointless demonstration but a necessary one, if the SWP supports it, then fucking great because the truth is that we need as many people out on the streets as possible.

A march against Tony would be far better than a simple done-it-before-yawn march against the war. We can do something positive about Tony whereas the UK is only a lowly side-kick in the war and it will continue even if we quit Iraq. Simply marching against the war is negative campaigning demanding Tony's head on a stick is positive campaigning. Marching against the war is just masturbation, fucking Tony over is far better fun.

No wonder the trolls and spooks are worried as their pay masters remember it was a public demonstration that got rid of Maggie and it is about time we had a monster demo against Tony. They are clearly worried look at the panic about John Mcririck mild criticism of Tony- New Labour were hysterical! Shows they are scared.

It should have one slogan "RESIGN!". Perhaps lots of Orange would be a good idea, the CIA nicks ideas from us may be it is about time we nicked some ideas from them?

Let us hope that STWC don't blow it as normal, if they do then the leadership should all resign because they have proved stunningly incompedent up to now, it is last chance saloon for the STWC.

a march agaisnt tony blair will prove nothing because if you get rid of tony blair another tony will be along in a minute. who do you think keeps him there? look at the record of labour and conservative goverment in this country in terms of international and national policy and the way in which big business and government interact and then decide whether one man makes that much difference.

a march against the war? on the big and rightly famous february march many people worked to get people there not just the Swp although it has since been claimed as their own. never mind that, on the day there were so many people it was magic and for a moment i thought maybe it would work. it didn't work. iraq was attacked as afghanistan was attacked as probably iran will be attacked if they have the manpower and money to do it. the intent is clearly there. given that marching didn't work when many people from all walks of life were there walking with us, then its impossible that this demo will achieve anything. it will not stop this war or the next. it will not get the troops out. it will not achieve anything chanted on the day.

i have no love anymore for the stop the war coalition and much regret that what started as a coalition of many people including loads of people from many groups and organisations on the left became just another swp front. where i live it worked for a while really well as a coalition of independents, anarchists, religous people, swp members and others and i worked really hard for it for a long time but became increasingly wary as it became more and more bureaucratic as the swp consolidated its grip on the stop the war coalition. because of that, eventually it fell apart with only the swp and those who supported them 100% still involved. i aligned with the anarchists because their position made more and more sense to a large extent because of the political experience of what was happening in the stop the war coalition and the battles i fought alongside others to try to maintain some sort of non-hierarchical consensual directly democratic operation in the stop the war coalition in our city. the coalition is no longer the coalition of groups and organisations it once was however much it blows its own trumpet.

the question someone raised earlier, what do we do if we don't march? is the real problem. i'm not disenchanted with the whole idea of marching totally. i think it works to communicate with people, to meet other people who think like you, just to feel like you aren't alone and to feel that little bit stronger but it doesn't have a hope in hell of achieving its slogans and the fact that the marches of good thinking people are used as a recruitment drive for the swp and other political parties/small left wing dogmatic fringe groups is depressing and worse than that, i think it destroys the idea of coalition (people working together towards a common aim) and turns those people into recruitment fodder for your particular ideology.

marching has its place. direct action from fluffy stuff to serious stuff has its place also. most of us who do stuff probably do things across this spectrum. if some people want to get together and sort out a demo about the threat against iran, or about spy stations such as menwith hill or the deportation of asylum seekers etc etc then i'd be there but when something is called by the stop the war coalition, for the above reasons, my heart sinks.

i'd say, stop using demos for the purpose of recruitment and pushing the party line. listen to people and act with them before, on and after demos. (no getting in groups first to decide on the party line before the meeting, you lot whispering at the back) that should be your primary purpose if you want ever to have ever a moments chance of getting enough people together to put pressure on goverment foreign policy. i'd say leave the swp but you won't listen. the actions of autonomous groups can be powerful. more importantly working with others without a hidden agenda is cruical if you have any real interest in making something happen together.

because at the moment these demos are pretty much a waste of time and the level of aggression in some of the comments on this thread demonstrates that there is a lot of deep feeling about the way in which the swp operate amongst other activists and their groups (yes other political organisations do it too but they aren't as active). if the stop the war coalition really wanted to be a coalition again it would try a little harder. the fact that it doesn't speaks volumes.

i wait to get flamed. probably from all sides :)







ho

Its so funny that people spend time denouncing the STWC and criticising the movement when it comes onto the streets

Yet now and in years to come they will loudly proclaim to their friends how they have attended every demonstration. If only half those who now claim to have been there actually were the demo would have been 20 million not 2 million. What a laugh.

When the revolution comes will you still be sitting at your computers saying this will change nothing and look the SWP have taken over. Well I for one will be there and will do my utmost to bring it about not sitting at a computer saying it plays into Blair's hands. What is it about the SWP you don't like is it because it goes out and organises while you sit and your computers and moan.
This is my last comment because I will be too busy organising for the demo, solidarity for Jerry Hicks, the heathrow workers, fighting racism in my community and any other thing to bring this government and the whole system down.

GET OUT THERE AND CHANGE THE WORLD YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE EXCEPT THE CHAINS THAT CHAIN YOU TO YOUR COMPUTER!

People are asking what good is marching if it did not stop the invasion of Iraq.

What more could be done. What is required to stop the war.

I will tell you.

The missing element is the trade union struggle. A movement without strikes is like Hamlet without the prince.

The STWC cannot summon the trade unions off their knees just by the force of its will.

The defeats of Thatcherism still hang like a nightmare over us. Only trade union victories can exorcise these demons.

At one stage it looked like this might be on the cards.

The fire fighters decided to stand their ground. And the Generals told Blair the following; either we break the fire fighters or we invade Iraq, but not both at once.

This was very serious for the government. Remember?

The STWC strained every sinew, every fibre of its being, to build solidarity for the fire fighters. The same cannot be said for the union leaders. And so New Labour was once again able to deliver the class. The fire fighters were isolated, and defeated.

Another less publicised episode involved RMT workers refusing to move goods for the army. Sadly this did not spread. Despite the STWC doing everything in its power to fan the flames.

So here we are. Still in the ring. But unable to land a knockout punch.

And so the chattering classes begin to howel and shake their fingers. Your no good they yell. You’ll never succeed. Its all pointless. Nothing ever changes.

Those with longer memories continue to march.

Wow, this is a cheery page!

I need your help: what do these indymedia terms mean, so I can get with the kids and understand your new fangled insults:

psy-ops

troll

spook

I can make some guesses but if someone who uses them could be kind and help me out I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

'Trolls' are eejits who post on websites to wind people up for a laugh. 'Spooks' are cops or secret-state agents who post on websites to stir up rows so as to divide the movement.

So naturally any time there's a disagreement in the movement a lot of accusations fly around that certain people/groups are 'obviously' spooks or trolls.. because why else would they disagree with the obviously correct thing the speaker is saying? ;-)

I reckon we could do with dropping the name-calling, accepting that different people have different analyses and that should be allowed (yes even the SWP :-o ) and

for all the reasons I gave earlier

GO ON THE MARCH!

http:www.stopwar.org.uk

Pointless marches are a favorite trot tactic. Like the majority of people in this country I have been on far to many marches, 99.9% of which have changed jack shit. People do not want another march; they want a result and STWC has yet to deliver. The best anti-poll tax groups were not members of the anti-poll tax federation but those who trusted their own judgment and acted independently. For example, Bournemouth anti-poll tax group won the legal argument over the Poll tax but were not even members of the anti-poll tax federation. The last thing the Poll Tax Federation (militant tendency) wanted was people thinking and acting on their own initiative. The last thing STWC (swp) want is people acting on their own initiative. The last thing the spooks want is people acting on their own initiative. Do we see a pattern emerging here?

The STWC have before them the greatest political open goal in 21st century, but they have dithered for years, they have yet to score a goal or put a full squad on the pitch and play the game. The situation for the STWC is both critical and simple: lead, follow or get out of the way!

If only 5% of the people who felt strongly enough to march against the war on Iraq actually threatened, and then took action against it - it would of been stopped. Not necissarily by political pressure, but simply because you cant have a war when no planes can take off due to people on the run way, no boats can carry munitions because of people in canoes, no convoys can carry their bombs because of people on the road and no generals can order people about from their occupied HQ's.

But if folk started getting used to chalanging authority, they might do it too much and then what would happen once the SWP got in power!??!?!

My two-cents worth...

The various approaches that have been mooted above (marches, direct action etc) all have their place as strategic tools that can and should be used but when and where they should be used is a tactical decision.

Marches do have a role to play. Firstly, participants tend to feel a certain amount of solidarity when on marches (depending, perhaps, on what, if any, contingent they are in). Secondly, they act as a visible demonstration of support for a particular idea or cause. Thirdly, they act as an easy way for people to get involved although there is clearly a difficulty in getting these people to increase their involvement. For these reasons, my personal feeling is that marches generally tend to be more useful in the initial stages of a campaign when people are unsure of the levels of support for a cause and there is a need to try and get people involved in something that is relatively easy to do (i.e. walk about for a bit).

To me, however, it seems like trying to have a march against the war as a visible demonstration of support to influence Blair is founded on a belief that he is unaware of the strength of feeling in the country against the war and that a march is the best way to show this. Being realistic, New Labour employ people like Phillip Gould to carry out focus group after focus group and survey after survey gauging public opinion. Before any of the STW marches New Labour had already probably worked out the likely extent of protests and the impact it would have on their poll ratings. Before even going to war in Iraq they'd have examined carefully the statistics to see the impact it would have - they'd have been remarkably stupid not to have. In other words, the big demonstrations in London have not told Blair anything he is not already aware of. Moreover, repeatedly having marches can lead to diminishing numbers (and returns) which make the movement seem weaker - it could be argued that this has happened with the Stop the War marches.

Moreover, there is the danger that continual marches lead many of the public to see marches as the sole way of expressing any dissent. The proportion of people in Britain saying they'd be willing to take part in a march has risen hugely over the last few years (but is still at only about 20%-25%) and this is to be welcomed - but there needs to be a deepening as well as a broadening of the struggle.

I don't think this necessarily means that having another march in London is pointless but I do think there needs to be a clear understanding of what it is trying to achieve (as well as questions of how it is organised - but that's another debate). There is talk of showing solidarity with Muslims but it needs to be asked whether having a mass march is the best way of showing solidarity in this instance. My experience on previous marches has been that most Muslim groups tend to march together with most non-Muslims doing likewise - besides being on the same march and perhaps buying a keffiyeh or two there doesn't seem to be much interaction despite the supposed solidarity.

The marches that are organised actually end up taking a lot of time and effort. Besides the logistics of organising the march itself, local groups spend a lot of people-hours leafleting to raise publicity for these marches and to try and fill buses. There have to be serious questions asked as to whether this is the best use of people's time.

For the record, the first post on this page, apparently by "Zorro", isn't by me.

"What's Plan B?

15.08.2005 17:56
We failed to stop the destruction of Afghanistan, we failed to stop the annihilation of Iraq and we will fail to stop Iran from being attacked with tactical nuclear weapons, if all we ever do is protest to deaf ears.

Zorro"

Come now. "We?" Since when did I ever regard myself as part of anyone else's enterprise or movement? A "human" post by Zorro? That made me laugh. Has the "spook troll" (it's the same thing, now) become an agent provocateur? Would anyone with half a brain genuinely trying to instigate mischief be that transparent?

As I believe fellow "troll" Magoo has mentioned, a registration system or publication of (partial) IP addresses would put paid to much of the nonsense and sock-puppetry on here and I would broadly favour such a system. I don't see it going down too well among the rank and file, though.

Now that war business. Let's get a few things straight. I'm a democrat and I believe in stuffy nonsense like national sovereignty and international law. I was and am opposed to the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq on those grounds. I'd take Iran on its own merits. We're not currently in that situation though I'm not so naive as to not be able to see where it's going.

As for the wisdom of SWC marching against a smorgasbord of past and suspected future offences, I don't see the harm in it but don't particularly see the point of it either. By which I mean, I don't imagine it'll change anything. By the same token, nor would doing something more dramatic, spectacular and probably illegal.

This comes down to the fundamental problem with the SWC, which is that most people don't support them. As we live in a democracy, things change when a cause is in tune with what most people support and they stay the same when it isn't.

But hold on, you say, didn't most people oppose the Iraq war? Well of course, they did. But opposing something isn't enough to build a powerful political force. You have to be for something, too. Numerically, most of the people who opposed the Iraq war and marched against it were liberals, rather than the various types of revolutionaries and class warriors that comprise the leadership of SWC and its afffiliates. These liberals were happy to march against the war, but they weren't going to support the alternatives that the SWC proposed.

It would be easy to wrongly get the impression that the "Left" missed a huge open goal. An unpopular government, and unpopular war, an unpopular "special relationship" with the Americans and compelling evidence that the government had lied to the people and parliament about WMD. But the Left didn't represent the mass of people opposed to the war who weren't anti-capitalist, didn't see themselves as "working class" and weren't even particularly anti-Labour. So Labour came back into government for no other reason than the lack of a credible alternative. SWC and its affiliates still aren't providing that alternative, they're just banging the same old drum, singing the same old tune.

100% genuine Zorro (TM). Accept no substitutes.