I'm keeping an open mind on this. His tesitimony struck me as little demonstrative at the time, but I assumed he was just a showoff lapping up the attention. Wait and see what other testimonies we get.

The allusions to the coroner's report in the press are interesting. Sounds like he *may* have testified at the inquest... aparently there are two conroner's reports, is that correct?

He could be an MI5 plant or he could just be Walter Mitty. The CCTV could have been a coincidence or it could have been preperation for a "Death on the Rock" style operation.

Info is still in flux, so I'm waiting to see what happens next. The revelation that Ian Blair tried to scupper the IPPC investigation looks a little iffy to say the least. But again, it could the actions of a man simply trying to save his job or something else I can't predict. We'll see.

If it transpires that Blair did sanction an assasination of one of the 21/7, for want of a better word, alleged bombers, then this is going to be very difficult for Teflon Tony weather.

Who knows; still early days.

how did all these people get it so wrong


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Commuter Teri Godly said she stood next to the man before police charged in. "A tall Asian guy, shaved head, slight beard, with a rucksack got in front of me. Shortly after that, as I was about to get onto the train, eight or nine undercover police with walkie talkies and handguns started screaming at everyone to 'get out, get out'." [Source]
 http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-07-22T170901Z_01_SCH145033_RTRUKOC_0_SECURITY-BRITAIN.xml

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another passenger, Rob Lowe, 33, from Balham, saw the incident from another viewpoint in the carriage. "The tube was stationary and then a man came on who I presume now to be a plain-clothes policeman, but at the time I didn't know who he was," he said.


"He was looking quite shifty, getting up and sitting back down again. I felt a bit awkward around him. And then he seemed to shout at some people on the other platform, who then all came rushing. The tube suddenly filled up with loads of people running down to the end of my carriage. "Then I heard probably four or five loud bangs and saw a bit of smoke "I have never heard a gun go off before but the bangs sounded like what I would presume a gun to sound like." [Source]
 http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/news/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=News&tBrand=edponline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED23%20Jul%202005%2010%3A34%3A36%3A093


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony Larkin, another passenger, said he thought the shot man had been wearing a bomb belt. "I saw these police officers in uniform and out of uniform shouting 'get down, get down', and I saw this guy who appeared to have a bomb belt and wires coming out and people were panicking and I heard two shots being fired," he said.


Ben Anderson, in the next carriage, spoke of confusion and more shouting. "A lot of people were screaming. The first gunshot was fired and I started to run out of the Tube and up the stairs and then there were a lot of shots afterwards. Outside the police were everywhere, they cordoned off the area very quickly. [source]
 http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1670842005

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Journalist Chris Martin said he was waiting on the northbound Northern line platform at Stockwell station and a train had pulled in when several men burst on to the platform about 20 yards from him.


"There was a lot of shouting, I thought it was football fans or something," he said.


"There was obviously some sort of altercation going on, and then they came flying on to the platform and these guys just threw this man into the open doors of the train.


"Then I heard shots, I thought it was three but someone else said five.


"It sounded like a silencer gun going off, and then there was blind panic, with people shouting and screaming and just running away.

 http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/19885043?source=Evening%20Standard&ct=5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

were they all told by the authorities that 'an agent' in a dark coat
was the terror suspect?

as a way of controlling this shoot to kill operation

for instance we might have a situation whereby
an actor was playing the
role of 'Bald Asian dark coated
terror suspect'

and 5 blanks were fired - loudly


while silencers shot Menezes
as the ensuing distraction caused
confusion and was
'witnessed'



if they were, it would suggest that the operation was
not an accidental shooting but a planned co-ordinated job
with contingencies made for media steering


good points made above,

getting very interesting, innit?

the first line of the Whitby changes his mind strory

----------------------------------------------------
FRIGHTENED witnesses thought they saw Jean Charles de Menezes, wearing a padded jacket, vault the barrier at Stockwell station and run on to a train.
----------------------------------------------------

change their story???


...Having myself lived in London, it is not as unusual as the above story asserts...to see someone jump the ticket barrier.

i know some false bombs had just gone off

but do mad buggers, [i include myself in this!!!] who leap around, having a laugh after a few drinks
- or yobs etc, care about jumping the turnstiles...???

Let's remember also, that everyone was just going about their business, and no-one was aware of the existence of a 'shoot to kill policy' or an Operation Kratos, or the isreali defence force teaching anti-terror tactics on the streets of London.

they only announced all the Kratos shit to the public on news media, after the fact
anyone who wanted to find it out had to look about a bit...

after we had done some digging and found the glocks and the actions of this murder
to be very similar to FRU Northern ireland tactics
also known as the DET [14th intelligence unit]

if one witness now changes his story what about the rest?

will they all fall into line?

"oh yes, officer, er, this isn't what i saw at all, you're quite right..."

sounds like a Jedi mind trick...

also if the dark padded jacketed Man is an agent
we have a perfect description...

oops his cover is blown

so...watch out for a tall bald asian guy with a goatee everyone...



ITS THE FU**ING STASI !!!

12. Why was the pathologist at the post mortem conducted on July 27th, (at which senior investigating police officers were present) told the following:


"This man's death occurred as part of the emergency relating to the planting of bombs on public transport in London. On the morning of the 22nd July 2005 he was pursued by armed police officers as a result of surveillance. He was followed into Stockwell Tube Station where he vaulted over the ticket barrier. He ran downstairs and onto a tube train where it appears that he stumbled. The officers then immobilised him and a number of shots were fired. At the present time I am not sure as to any further details." -


 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1739219,00.html

FRIGHTENED witnesses thought they saw Jean Charles de Menezes, wearing a padded jacket, vault the barrier at Stockwell station and run on to a train.

 http://www.examiner.ie/pport/web/world/Full_Story/did-sgTFiP99YqGzEsgDQQ5wn3uAIg.asp

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
flashback
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I saw Tube man shot - eyewitness - Eyewitness report
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4706913.stm


A passenger has told how he saw armed police officers shoot a man dead on a Tube train at Stockwell.

Mark Whitby said: "I was sitting on the train... I heard a load of noise, people saying, 'Get out, get down'. "I saw an Asian guy. He ran on to the train, he was hotly pursued by three plain clothes officers, one of them was wielding a black handgun. "He half tripped... they pushed him to the floor and basically unloaded five shots into him," he told BBC News 24. "As [the suspect] got onto the train I looked at his face, he looked sort of left and right, but he basically looked like a cornered rabbit, a cornered fox. "He looked absolutely petrified and then he sort of tripped, but they were hotly pursuing him, [they] couldn't have been any more than two or three feet behind him at this time and he half tripped and was half pushed to the floor and the policeman nearest to me had the black automatic pistol in his left hand. "He held it down to the guy and unloaded five shots into him.

Heavy coat

"He [the suspect] had a baseball cap on and quite a sort of thickish coat - it was a coat you'd wear in winter, sort of like a padded jacket. "He might have had something concealed under there, I don't know. But it looked sort of out of place with the sort of weather we've been having, the sort of hot humid weather.

"He was largely built, he was quite a chubby sort of guy. "I didn't see any guns or anything like that - I didn't see him carrying anything. I didn't even see a bag to be quite honest.


"I got into the ticket hall. I was approached by a policeman and London Underground staff asking me if I needed counselling.

"I was just basically saying I've just seen a man shot dead. I've seen a man shot dead. I was distraught, totally distraught. It was no less than five yards away from where I was sitting. I actually saw it with my own eyes."



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There was a real wave of panic on my train, people were banging on the doors Jason Dines [Tube passenger]

I was distraught, totally distraught. It was no less than five yards away from where I was sitting - Mark Whitby [Eyewitness]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



'Popping sounds'


Another passenger on the train, Georgia Law, told BBC Radio 5 Live she heard the shots.
"I heard all these popping sounds, it sounded like gunshots, but quite quiet ones.

"I could hear shouting, 'get down' and people going 'run, run'. I thought there was just someone shooting randomly. "So I lay on the floor of the carriage and then I decided to get up and have a look out.


"[I] could see someone lying on the floor and police all standing around. "But it was all quite panicky so I then ran up the platform and out of the Tube."


Commuter Anthony Larkin, who was also on the train at Stockwell station, told 5 Live he saw police chasing a man. "I saw these police officers in uniform and out of uniform shouting 'get down, get down', and I saw this guy who appeared to have a bomb belt and wires coming out and people were panicking and I heard two shots being fired."


'People were crying'


Jason Dines was a passenger on a Victoria line tube train which arrived at Stockwell station as the shooting was taking place. "When we pulled into Stockwell there was just a lot of panic on the platform," he told News 24. "Everyone who was on the platform was just running from one end of the platform down to the exit as quickly as possible. "There was a real wave of panic on my train, people were banging on the doors saying, you know, 'come on, open the doors, let us get off, we want to get off the train'. "Because of that panic, you couldn't actually hear what the driver's announcements were, what he was telling us to do which was a bit of a problem. "The doors opened, we got onto the platform, then you could hear the PA address system on the platform - the drivers were basically saying get back on the train.

"There were people very, very shaken, a couple of people crying. It was quite an unsettling experience."


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notice also that the Main Wintess Mark Whitby
says he was running away when he heard MORE shooting

"I was inside the carriage when the first five shots went off and then I heard another three as I was running up the stairs. I thought, 'there's a gun battle going on'."


Notice: Whitby is being associated
in this new story [see Irish Examiner above]
with the witness to the 'Barrier vaulting'

but his testimony places him ON THE TRAIN

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I have thought long and hard about it and I now believe that I could have been looking at the surveillance officer. I certainly didn't see a denim jacket."
 http://www.examiner.ie/pport/web/world/Full_Story/did-sgTFiP99YqGzEsgDQQ5wn3uAIg.asp
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



two places at once???

or did he run down the stairs
and along the platform
with the mysterious barrier vaulting
persons unknown

and watch himself get on the train


it was Chris Wells who apparently saw the barrier jumping

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Wells, 28, a company manager, was among several who said he believed he had seen the suspect vault the barriers - but was probably looking at one of several plainclothes officers.
 http://www.examiner.ie/pport/web/world/Full_Story/did-sgTFiP99YqGzEsgDQQ5wn3uAIg.asp
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

so why all the news media attention in the Irish Examiner news story to Mark Whitby,
with only one line given to the real eye opener Chris Wells?????



the exact same story is here in the Telegraph
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What did witnesses really see?
By Duncan Gardham
(Filed: 18/08/2005)
 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/08/18/nmenez218.xml
----------------------------------------------------------------------------






----------------------------------------------------------------------------
original testimony of Chris Wells in the Guardian NOW MISSING???
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chris Wells, a 28-year-old company manager, said he was travelling on the Victoria Line towards Vauxhall when he left the train at Stockwell.

He saw about 20 police officers, some of them armed, rushing into the station before a man jumped over the barriers with police giving chase.

He said: “There were at least 20 of them [officers] and they were carrying big black guns.

“The next thing I saw was this guy jump over the barriers and the police officers were chasing after him and everyone was just shouting ‘get out, get out”.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
found on this blog

 http://www.perfect.co.uk/2005/07/london-bombs-2-news-theories-and-reaction


referring to this page:
 http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1534138,00.html


no mention of Chris wells

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

another Guardian story from Sunday August 14, 2005
mentions Wells


One witness, Chris Wells, 28, a company manager, said he saw about 20 police officers, some armed, rushing into the station before a man jumped over the barriers with police giving chase.

In fact, by the time the armed officers arrived de Menezes was already heading down towards the train. It now seems certain that the man seen vaulting the barrier was one of the armed officers in hot pursuit.


Another witness interviewed by the inquiry puts officers on the train before the shooting, glancing around the carriage and apparently searching for their suspect.

 http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1548819,00.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

er...confused yet?

!!!
???

That the NEW 'Whitby filled story' of
Chris Wells seeing plain clothed men jump the barrier
is yet another device

to prove there was a certain amount of Life or death
anxiety to the killing, and that blind panic
ensued mistakes were made and
judgements were blurred

'it was all an accident....'


I now put it to you your honour
that there was NO VAULTING of any barriers


Menezes was tracked silently
and MURDERED in cold blood

and the story was firstly invented
to assert that Menezes
was a terrorist

and is now being spun to assert
Blind panic
as our boys in blue struggle to protect
innocent lives
against 'suicide bombers'

The list of witness accounts above includes quotes from Chris Martin and Rob Lowe. Given that some people here have drawn conclusions based on the fact that a police scientist who turns up on Google a few times is called Mark Whitby, can we also assume that Bono and Molly Ringwald will also be testifying to the IPCC?

Mark Whitby, 47, a plumber from Brixton

[or are you just doing more of that personal attack stuff
others are doing to confuse issues even more]


the whole witness scenario is a PSYOP

they spin it one way

and if it doesn't fly they spin it another


classic example

David C kelly

was a good enough scientist to advise HMG on WMD
and be a world respected expert on WMD proliferation

but was a 'walter mitty character' when it came to the select affairs commitee

look what happened to him...er




-----------------------------------------------
spin 1:

Menezes was reported as running away, jumping the ticket barrier

[implying he was guilty & deserved action]
-----------------------------------------------

spin 2:

it was the cops who jumped the barrier

[implying the cops were in a state of panic - doing their
best to protect and serve in a time of crises]

-----------------------------------------------

sorry FT i thought you were havin a go


they are famous names aren't thay...


shit

we been psyopped bad

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Urgent appeal for witnesses in the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------
the following witnesses
did not see a man in a jean jacket
------------------------

Teri Godly
Rob Lowe
Anthony Larkin
Chris Martin
Mark Whitby
Simon Dixon
Georgia Law
Sarah Simpkin
Chris Wells
Jason Dines


------------------------
did anyone ACTUALLY see a man answering the description
of Jean Charles de Menezes in the vicinity
of the tube station in Stockwell

either going through the ticket area
or getting on the tube train
------------------------

???????????????????

There is a photo released of a man in denim
lying on the floor of a tube carriage
 http://www.declarepeace.org.uk/captain/murder_inc/pics/menezes666.jpg

but identification of the subject
is difficult to verify


as is the veracity of 'leaked' documents from the IPCC

According to documents obtained by ITV News, the Brazilian entered the station
at a normal walking pace and picked up a copy of a free newspaper.

The leaked report also indicated that Mr de Menezes was wearing a light denim jacket and not the heavily padded coat as initially claimed.


all evidence that Menezes was EVEN in the Stockwell area
is given by Intelligence sources...

There are NO public witnesses


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Urgent appeal for witnesses in the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Menezes was murdered before-hand
so the Special ops guys
needed to place him in this scenario to cover the
act of murder

what the media spun witnesses actually saw
was a stage-managed piece of theatre

Bang! Bang bang!! smoke cordite...effects...

tall Asian man in dark coat

everyone runs away....from the scene


so now the tube is evacuated

his body was placed in position
and photographed

just for the news release we see today
to prove he was on the train all along

having witnessed quite a few "scenes" in around stockwell / brixton over the years it's quite possible that
the people who saw "a man jump over the barrier" actually witnessed a grouè of cops running into the station.
One of them could well have been ahead of the others and leapt over the barrier with a group running in behind him giving the impression that they were chasing the barrier vaulter. As plain clothes cops come in all shapes and sizes and where all sorts of clothes this could havebeen possible.
I remember sitting in the pub opposite the BMW motor bike shop during the 1984 Brixton uprising and watching a group of plain clothed cops stop and physically abuse blck people who turned into Lingham street heading for Brixton, one of them was armed with an iron bar which looked like a poker.

The leading cop could well have been wearing some kind of bullet prove clothing and therefore that would accoun for the heavy jacket. At the time chief plod would have been keen to try and make the suspect look like a terrorist and the reports would have been hyped accordingly.

I think it's safe to say that the operation that led to the murder of an completely innocent man was not a simple matter and that there were hordes of cops, special forces and fuck knows what else all running about central london armed to the teeth. As they have proved in the past the twats thatrun MET couldn't organize a wank in a brothel and this guy paid very dearly for their total incompetence. They (the upper class twats) of course were then keen to save their own skin and therefore put up a smoke screen of lies and deciet and hope that perhaps some one else will pay and they will still get a comfy job at the bank or where ever..

question: what didn't we have before the london Bombings?

answer: A shoot to kill policy

now we have the accusations that 'mistakes were made'

but these are part of the Psyops
as damage limitation


eventually there will be measures brought
in to legitimise
shoot to kill

sure their will be more stringent rules
but the policy will be in the public consciousness
as a legitimate one


where are the witnesses of Jean Charles de Menezes in
Stockwell????

there are plenty of witnesses who have seen the cops

on the platform and in the carriage

not one mention of a man in a jean jacket

doesn't this strike you as a little odd???

'UK cops assassinated innocent man'


[agencies] Posted online: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 at 1121 hours IST

London, August 17: An innocent Brazilian man, shot dead by British police who mistook him for a London bombing suspect, had taken a seat on a train and was tackled by a police surveillance officer before being shot, according to an account of events.

British police had claimed that 27-year-old electrician Jean Charles de Menezes didn't obey an order to stop as they tailed him into London's Stockwell Underground train station a day after a series of bombs planted on London's transit system failed to fully detonate.

Menezes had emerged from a house that police had under surveillance, believing it was linked to the bombings.

Britain's ITV Television News, citing security footage, had claimed that Menezes entered the station at a normal walking pace, stopping to pick up a newspaper.

The television station claimed that witness accounts included in an investigation report, said Menezes was seated on the train before being shot.

A man sitting opposite Menezes is quoted as saying: "within a few seconds I saw a man coming into the double doors to my left."

"He was pointing a small black handgun towards a person sitting opposite me. He pointed the gun at the right hand side of the man's head. The gun was within 12 inches of the man's head when the first shot was fired."

The report obtained by ITV said while Menezes was shot eight times, a further three bullets were fired but missed. ITV said the documents came from an official investigation into Menezes' death.

 http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=52874


---------------------------------------------------------
A man sitting opposite Menezes is quoted as saying something...?
--------------------------------------------------------


so who is this, then?

You wrote : "Menezes was murdered before-hand so the Special ops guys needed to place him in this scenario to cover the act of murder."

If he was killed without witnesses beforehand as you say, there would have been no need to set up such a scenario afterwards. The man would just have gone forever missing.

Your links are interesting but most of your analysis is flawed.

'It must be true', says de Menezes shooting witness

Aug 19 2005 - Exclusive By Chris Pragnell And Gareth Dorrian, South London Press

SHOCK revelations surrounding the Jean Charles de Menezes shooting must be true, says a key witness.

The innocent Brazilian was gunned down in Stockwell Tube station by cops thinking he was a bomber.

Brixton resident Mark Whitby was yards away in the same carriage.

Various witnesses said they saw an Asian man wearing bulky clothing directly involved in the action.

But Mr Whitby says that man - who may have vaulted a ticket barrier - is likely to have been an undercover cop trailing Mr de Menezes.

"What's been on the news this week is as close to the truth as you're going to get," he told the South London Press.

"I think the guy I saw being bundled out of the way might have been a surveillance officer who was following him."

Mr Whitby, 47, described what he saw: "There was a mass of bodies and I saw a gun being lowered and I heard the shots.

"Mr de Menezes must have been ahead of the officers. The guy in the thick coat can't have been him."

Yesterday, family lawyers were locked in talks with investigators following claims a series of police blunders led to the shooting.

Met Commissioner Sir Ian Blair also faces calls for his resignation as it emerged his statements may have misled the public.

Documents leaked to ITN News suggest 27-year-old Mr de Menezes, an electrician from Scotia Road, Tulse Hill, should not have aroused suspicion.

They say he wore a lightweight denim jacket NOT a heavily padded winter coat; he entered Stockwell Tube station at "normal walking pace" and did NOT vault the ticket barrier; he calmly took a seat on a Tube carriage and was NOT chased on by cops; and he did NOT disobey police instructions top stop.

The leak is thought to have come from the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), called in to investigate the July 22 tragedy.

Mr de Menezes's family are now calling for a full public inquiry, sensing they are not being kept up to date with developments.

"It's evident we have been told lies and half-truths about how Jean died," said Asad Rehman, campaigning for justice on behalf of the family.

Neither the Met nor the IPCC would comment. l An Italian court has approved the extradition of Osman Hussain, 27, from Stockwell, who is accused of trying to blow himself up on a train at Shepherd's Bush. His lawyers have eight days left to lodge an appeal against the extradition.

 http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0400lambeth/tm_objectid=15875479&method=full&siteid=50100&headline=-it-must-be-true---says-de-menezes-shooting-witness-name_page.html


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

just one problem
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark Whitby did not witness the Vaulting of the ticket barrier
he was in the carriage apparently


flashback: Chris Wells

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Wells, 28, a company manager, was leaving the station when he saw about 20 police officers:

"There were at least 20 of them and they were carrying big black guns. The next thing I saw was this guy jump over the barriers and the police officers were chasing after him and everyone was shouting 'get out, get out'."
 http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1534654,00.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



so

SHOCK revelations surrounding the Jean Charles de Menezes shooting must be true, says a key witness.



which revelations are these????

the ones so handily supplied by the intellignece services in a 'leaked memo'

the need is to place menezes as an accident to legitimise a shoot to kill policy

------------------------------------------------
problem: innocent man shot

reaction: inquiry

solution: shoot to kill on the statute books
------------------------------------------------


another thing

i reckon it might be the case

that Menezes had documents/evidence
proving that the 7-7 bombings were staged

maybe they took him in, and questioned him a little too thoroughly...

and had to cover their tracks

maybe not


but the whole shit stinks

i agree it does seem a little far-fetched

why stage a murder with a guy who looks nothing like Menezes?

maybe the tall Asian dark coated
rucksacked man was also shot...?


the whole lack of Menezes witnesses has got me really spooked


why is whitby wheeled out all the time?

no one has ever mentioned a denim jacketed man...in ANY witness testimony
i think i'm just as confused as everyone else on this...

Blair has just announced that the psy-ops scare of 'Bird Flu' will be used as an excuse to ban all 'mass gatherings' of people throughout the UK. Now, perhaps, the penny will drop over the 'impossible-by detail and scale' foot and mouth outbreak a few years ago- an event used to pre-condition the UK public to accepting draconian limitations on their freedoms as a result of 'random' biological events.

911 and anthrax worked as a nice combo, and the fact that the anthrax was later PROVED to be of US government in origin did not cause the slightest political problem to Blair or Bush.

In truth, the ONLY interesting detail about the London execution, once you accept that Blair is THAT evil, lies in the fact that some people in (limited) power are still willing to challenge him, and leak information to us. However, we saw the same thing in Thatcher's time, and it didn't make a damned difference to her plans- she still got her Cruise Missiles, and Poll Tax, regardless of what happened to her later.

Of course, many (especially here) claim that Blair is gathering these various powers and weapons for no particular reason whatsoever!!! I'm sure the same was true of Hitler. I mean, is it reasonable to think that anything that Hitler did before 1939 was in planning for his acts after 1939? Surely, only a paranoid cynical moron would make such a claim.

Let me ask you all a question- when a serail killer strikes, in a fairly wide sense we 'know' why he did it (for anyone has has bothered to read criminal psychology), but that does not mean, in any accurate sense we can predict exactly what he will do next? Some here (Blair's psy-ops people) would claim an inability to predict the future acts of a serial killer PROVES that he is therefore NOT a serial killer.

I know why Blair (in control of, or in conspiracy with those directly responsible) did the foot-and-mouth outbreak, the Russian apartment bombings, the war in Kosovo, 911, the anthrax letters, the London bombs, the hoax bombs of the 27, the London execution, and dozens of other deeply disgusting acts. Each one of these atrocities furthered Blair's powers, either directly or in terms of his influence with other powerful leaders. However, knowing Blair's motivations and methods still does not make it easy to understand where he will strike next, or indeed exactly how the jigsaw pieces fit together.

It is interesting to remember that the same psy-ops arguments were expressed in all the pro-Hitler newspapers across the Earth pre-1939, buying Hitler all the time he needed to ensure his plans were irreversible (at least without the sacrifice of tens of millions of humans).

who is it that says:
-Trust Blair
-It doesn't matter how many lies Blair and his people have told
-Never jump to conclusions when thinking about Blair
-Always jump to conclusions when thinking about those people Blair targets
-Always give Blair the benefit of the doubt
-Do not hold Blair to the same moral standards you would expect from a friend
-Forgive Blair and his people for ANY crime that is proved against them
-Cheer Blair when he maximises punishment for crimes committed by anyone OUTSIDE Blair's circe
-Count EVERY UK and US military death
-ONLY count 'civilian' deaths of those that Blair kills, and then limit the definition of 'civilian' in EVERY possible way
-the Geneva Convention is rubbish
-Human Rights get in the way of law enforcement
-Never protest effectively- effective forms of protest (like Mr Haw, or the 'Fathers for Justice') are inherently wrong.

Understand that a significant portion of the Billions spent by MI5, the CIA etc goes on forums like this. Paying some scumbag to post psy-ops crap is a damn sight cheaper than inventing a new spy plane, or whatever.

How can Whitby be on the carriage witnessing Menezes getting shot & not notice or remember Menezes or the denim Jacket???


why is he still asserting there was a bundle, when the leaked documents, apparently reveal there was a direction given by one of the people tracking him to the Firearms unit...as he held the door of the tube carriage open - "that's him"


we still have confusion...whether Menezes stood up & walked towards the armed officers or whether he was shot as he sat in his seat


also what the f**k is this all about???:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony Larkin, another passenger, said he thought the shot man had been wearing a bomb belt. "I saw these police officers in uniform and out of uniform shouting 'get down, get down', and I saw this guy who appeared to have a bomb belt and wires coming out and people were panicking and I heard two shots being fired," he said.
 http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1670842005
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sounds like theatre to me...

Leaked documents, believed to be from the IPCC inquiry suggest Mr de Menezes was sitting calmly in the Tube carriage, surrounded by surveillance officers, moments before police stormed in and fired eight bullets into him.

According to the documents, an officer grabbed Mr de Menezes, pinned his arms down, and pushed him back on a seat before he was shot. Mr de Menezes's cousin, Alex Alvez Pereira, said: "The officers who have done this have to be sent to jail for life because it's murder and the people who gave them the order to shoot must be punished."

According to a statement in the leaked report, one of the surveillance officers, codenamed Hotel Three, saw four firearms officers approaching the suspect at Stockwell station.

The witness statement said at least three surveillance officers were positioned. "I immediately identified these men as police [firearms] officers probably from SO19 and decided to identify the male in the denim jacket who I followed on to the Tube to them as they appeared to be looking into the carriage as if searching for someone."

Hotel Three stood up and walked to the carriage doors. "I placed my left foot against the open carriage door to prevent it shutting ... I shouted 'He's here' and indicated to the male in the denim jacket with my right hand. I then heard shouting which included the word 'police' and turned to face the male in the denim jacket."

The officer said Mr de Menezes then stood up and walked to within a few feet of him. "I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso pinning his arms to his side. I then pushed him back on to the seat where he had previously been sitting ... I then heard a gunshot very close to my ear and was dragged away on to the floor of the carriage." Mr de Menezes was shot eight times, seven times in the head, once in the shoulder. Three bullets missed him.

Statements from witnesses had said earlier that Mr de Menezes was followed from his flat in Tulse Hill on to the bus that took him to Stockwell station.


 http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article306614.ece

[if you get a blank page with no article click RSS feed then back on your browser]



------------------------------------------------------------
Statements from witnesses?
what witness would know that some guy was being followed?

or are these witnesses the Intelligence services?
------------------------------------------------------------

Witness statement of surveillance officer 'Hotel Three'







"About 10.03am I saw the male in the denim jacket enter Stockwell tube station. At about this time I transmitted via my radio a request for directions as to whether or not this male should be detained.

"I received a reply from H5 instructing me to wait and I therefore continued with conventional covert surveillance. (I saw) the male in the denim jacket enter the foyer of Stockwell tube station and take a free copy of the Metro newspaper from a stand on the right hand side of the foyer. He then walked towards the barriers, produced a ticket and passed through the barrier.






"He then turned left and descended down an escalator towards platforms 1 and 2, northbound. About half way down the escalator he started to run and as he left the escalator at the bottom he turned left at the first archway/ entrance on to platform 2, Northern Line northbound.

"As he did so he ran towards a train that was waiting at the platform, entered the carriage directly in front of him before turning right and walking through the carriage before taking a seat on the nearside of the carriage facing the platform opposite the next set of double doors on the carriage. He was sat down with a glass panel to his right about two seats in.


"I took a seat to his left hand side on the same carriage and there were about two or three members of the public between me and the male in the denim jacket. I noticed that there were about two or three members of the public sitting on the seats opposite me.


"After about ten or 15 seconds I saw about four men moving along the platform to my right towards the open double doors opposite the male in the denim jacket. I noticed that these men were dressed in plain clothes and the man in front was carrying a black pistol . . .


"I immediately identified these men as police officers probably from SO19 and decided to identify the male in the denim jacket, who I followed onto the Tube, to them as they appeared to be looking into the carriage as if searching for someone.


"I therefore stood up and walked over to the open carriage doors, directly opposite the man in the denim jacket.


"I placed my left foot against the open carriage door to prevent it shutting with my back against a glass panel with the armed police officers on the platform to my left.


"I shouted 'He's here' and indicated to the male in the denim jacket with my right hand. I then heard shouting which included the word 'police' and turned to face the male in the denim jacket.


"He immediately stood up and advanced towards me and the SO19 officers. He appeared agitated and I noticed that his hands were held below his waist and slightly in front of him. The man did not stand still and advanced to within about three or four feet of myself and the SO19 officers. Assessing that I may be dealing with a terrorist subject and fearing for the safety of the public on the carriage the SO19 officers and myself, I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso pinning his arms to his side. I then pushed him back onto the seat where he had previously been sitting with right hand side of my head pressed against the right hand side of his torso.


"At this stage his body seemed straight and he was not in a naturally sitting position. I then heard a gunshot very close to my ear and was dragged away onto the floor of the carriage.


"I shouted 'police' and held up my hands. I was then dragged out of the carriage by an armed officer who appeared to be carrying a long-barrelled weapon. I heard several gun shots as I was being dragged on to the floor and out of the carriage."


SOURCE: ITV NEWS
via the times
 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1739960,00.html

You haven't taken into account Dan Copeland's statement.

He says that a man wearing a fleece and a baseball cap entered the train and grabbed someone.

After that he said he obeyed the verbal unjunction he received from the other end of the wagon to get out and did not see what subsequently happened but heard 4 dull bangs.

He assumes that the man who entered the wagon was the man who got shot when in fact it could well be that the man who got shot was the man who got grabbed.

Mark Whitby in his new statement says that the police officers were wearing scruffy streetware.

So that finally, the story that has been leaked is possibly quite consistent with the real facts.

All the witnesses who saw a man jumping over fences and running saw in fact those "police officers" in scruffy street wear.

Jean de Menezes who entered the wagon normally and sat down got noticed by no one.

And later he got grabbed by the police officers who subsequently shot him 5 times.

When they saw they did a mistake, they were on their own in the wagon (All passengers had run out and uniformed officers weren't yet arrived) and shot the man who was already dead 3 more times in the head from close range as to disfigure him totally so that they could more easily claim they had mistaken him for someone else.

Whitby has said that he came across uniformed officers while being half way out. He also said in his new interview that 3 more shots were fired while he was running up the stairs.

It would be nice if we could have a map of the wagon with were all the witnesses that have spoken were located.

Copeland says that a man wearing a fleece and a baseball cap
entered the train and grabbed someone.

After that he said he obeyed the verbal message
he received from the other end of the wagon
to get out and did not see what subsequently
happened but heard 4 dull bangs.

He assumes that the man who entered the wagon was the
man who got shot when in fact it could well be that the man
who got shot was the man who got grabbed.
----------------------------------------------------

yes i agree with the above that Copeland
and Whitby [and the others?]

thought they saw
the victim when they actually saw authorities
caps and fleeces,

although the press photo i have shows jeans and white shirts
did they take them off after the fact?
perhaps it was warmer outside than down in the tube


but what is making me doubt certain aspects is
that intelligence operatives are being referred to
as 'witnesses'

in a best case scenario they are complicit in a
bodged operation which led to the death of a young man

via bad surveillance [taking a piss...then guessing]
a failure to communicate, this error
and then further

in the carriage

we also have in the above 'surveillance witness testimony'
a contradiction in that everything seems a little calmer
than all of the passenger witnesses describe

we have descriptions of people banging the side
of the windows freaking out
people running up the stairs
getting asked if they need counciling

Whitbys testimony seems weird
in that he says he saw a bundle, shouting and confusion
yet the testimony by the agent says they
grabbed his arms and pushed
the victim into his seat
whereby the armed officers then shot him
in the head 7 times

if the agent was restraining him and the extra
bullet hit the victim in the shoulder...

the photo i have shows machine guns being
held by two officers in the road afterwards

i wouldn't have been happy being the agent
restraining him, if someone shot past me
with a machine gun

i could have got shot also

whitby has said he thought there was a
gun battle going on
as he ran up the stairs
with 2 bursts of gunfire

How did he witness the shooting
then get out in and up the stairs
in time to hear more gunshots???

we have a strange situation where all 'witness statements'
are cast into doubt because of the track record
of the sensationalist nature
of the reporting by the news media

and the spinning of officials as witnesses

doesn't help one bit

it has led me to suggesting the dramatic scenario earlier

to prove the those who report, those who
are charged with the job of security/policing

are all responsible for telling the truth

not spinning events to suit steer the political
climate into one of xenophobia and suspicion

so we have another question

why didn't the authorities put the press
straight on a few issues?

why did Iain Blair announce with gusto
the same thing that got
repeated to the coroner

its the same balony
that we have been fed
from the News Media

that the victim was running away
and had a heavy jacket on
and ignored vocal warnings

Before we get too conspiritorial, we should remember that eyewitness testimomy is known to be very unreliable esp. in highly emotoinally chraged and stressful situations. Witnesses often will rearrange fragments of memories to fit, post incident, rationalisations of what occurred. Witnesses frequently confuse and impose different the 'actors ' invovled and other witnesses. It is now known to be so unreliable that the CPS are reclutant to take cases to court that rely solely or mainly witness statements. So it very likely these witnesses to the killing are simply confused and mistaken.

so why are the eye-witnesses all over the F**king news????

looking for some TV coverage
straight after the event?

trying to get on the telly?

or does that scenario make it easy for the
authorities to plant witnesses

i've often wondered what the purpose of
'reality TV ' really is...

it cant be for entertainment....can it?

it must be for ENTRAINMENT!!!

socially engineered fame lust helps control & blur reality
and is a politically useful tool

hey!
look at me daddy O!

of course wherever there is an important news story
we never truly see through our TV led eyes the thousands of wires
miles of lines of satelite trucks and
faceless techies & automotons -

The stepford news 'hostesses'
spewing the government line
like some vapid undigestable airline dinner
into the cameras 24 hours a day


what a set up!

where are the exits again?
do i have to blow this whistle?
sick into what bag? where?


Mayday Mayday!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[this posting has been stopped due to over use of an airline analogy]

Jason Cortez.
Says that under stress humans cant really relate what they see properly,and so therefore testimony is not really Valid.Well its what they didnt see which is bothering me.....
The man in the Denim Jacket...............No one sees him......................

Whitby sees a guy pushed to the floor and he sees the colour of the hangun,remembers its the left hand the gun is in ,yet he doesnt mention a guy in a denim Jacket!!!!!!!

So far from what ive read above and with the links.....

I would say it is "possable" that a staged pretend killing took place in order to put people into confusion,and then Mr Menezes was taken out.And purposefully taken out,for reasons to yet be established......

I mean tactical videoing should have a rule of turning a video on when one goes for a piss,i mean these guys are pros.So the taking a leak excuse is baloney more than likely.

Where was Mr Menezes working pre 7/7 it could be far fetched that he saw something re 7/7.though so is this story of mistaken identity.Brazilians do not look sians,and denim jackets do not look like thick coats.

Deputy dog

PC : You wrote :

"yes i agree with the above that Copeland
and Whitby [and the others?]

thought they saw
the victim when they actually saw authorities
caps and fleeces,

although the press photo i have shows jeans and white shirts
did they take them off after the fact?
perhaps it was warmer outside than down in the tube "

The cops you saw in jeans and shirt simnply took all their gear off afterwards.

So what gear ?

Weapons + communication equipment + a fleece to hide all that. (+ make up eventually).

Even the testimony of the man who saw wires protruding from the "terrorists" (undercover police officer or SAS) chest while he was running makes now sense. (wires from the central unit to the microphone and earings)

Cortez : You wrote :

"Before we get too conspiritorial, we should remember that eyewitness testimomy is known to be very unreliable esp. in highly emotoinally chraged and stressful situations. Witnesses often will rearrange fragments of memories to fit, post incident, rationalisations of what occurred. Witnesses frequently confuse and impose different the 'actors ' invovled and other witnesses. It is now known to be so unreliable that the CPS are reclutant to take cases to court that rely solely or mainly witness statements. So it very likely these witnesses to the killing are simply confused and mistaken"

Well finally all the eyewitnesses accounts that at first sight appear to you to be the result of stress- induced imagination are all fitting together in the story almost perfectly.

I understand that dismissing direct eyewitnesses account is one of the latest gizmo there is. Some psychiatrists "scientifically" established why. It is a very dangerous to give into that. It is an invitation to the rule of society by psychiatrists.

To finish with, let me tell you something personnal about living in a situation of extreme stress were your own life is at immediate or near immediate stake (such was the case of Whitby who says he was primarilly concerned by flying bullets). You see things more accurately than ever as all your attention becomes totally focused on your surroundings (on what happens around you). Not a single microsecond of your brain activity is used to imagine stories. You don't have any leisure for it. You do not hallucinate, you just see.

Do my posts above makes sense : No one saw a denim jacket because De Menezes was seated and did attract no one's attention. All the attention got grabbed by a pack of 4 or 5 people in scruffy street gear with wires protruding out of their chests entering the wagon. One man seating on the wagon (De Menezes ?) got grabbed by the first who entered. But did the man who got grabbed ever stood up after that ? What if he remained hidden from sight for that sole reason. Does this make sense ?

gazubal
Yes,my thoughts at this moment is that the witnesses seen only what they where supposed to see.The protruding wires are highly likely police/military tech toys.NOT BOMBS.

Having been threatened myself on a few occassions i can say that your statement of one being more in the NOW with ones mind and thoughts is a fact.

Lets also go back to Richard Jones who says he saw the clean shaven terrorist DOWNSTAIRS on the 30 bus....yet the bomb went off upstairs...Duh!!!!!!!! his eye testimony was leapt on by the media.......

We are only nutters and mad when we are closer to the facts.......


Ive just been watching some well put together videos WMV player needed over here

 http://www.question911.com/

My word we are in deep doo doos if we stay in denial to what is going on around us.

A quick operation in bringing these criminals,prime ministers and presidents,and the shadow players to justice is needed now!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its all so obviously LIES............

Deputy Dog

When I was a lot younger, I attended a career seminar run by a solicitor. He was explaining to us what criminal lawyers do for a living. In the middle of his seminar, a man ran into the classroom and stole an eraser from the chalkboard, before running out again. It took about 15 seconds, and caught us by surprise.

The solicitor explained that the man was a friend of his, and that he had asked him to steal the eraser to make a point. He asked us to describe the man. Every one of us seemed to have a different description. Sometimes, points made by one of us influenced the others. We achieved a consensus about how the man had been dressed, his height, his hair colour and style, etc. Then the solicitor brought the man back into the room - we had got most of the details wrong.

The point was brought home: our memories can be unreliable, and we are often influenced by others into "remembering" false details. We thought that man had a moustache (he didn't). Mark Whitby got some details wrong - give the guy a break. The real problem is that the media don't report stories honestly - and the police encourage that habit.

Hammer

Seeing someone supposedly shot in front of your eyes.and some one running into your class stealing an eraser are slightly diffirent.Your life was,or seemed not to be in danger.Now if the guy had ran into your class and put a gun to your head,then my bets are on you remembering......

Not everyone has crap memory skills,unfotunately for these murderers.Good for honest humans.

Richard Jones described the 30 bus bomber as clean shaven and very smart...the CCTV pictures show something VERY diffirent.......

Facts are young Brazilian murdered,and folks should not be in such a forgiving mood....Did they give the young brazilian a chance...No......

Rather than being so pacifistic and hoping its all going to be allright i suggest one starts reading what we have...Yes the media get things wrong,BUT there has been NO EVIDENCE TO SHOW suicide bombers where responsable for anything,and these BSTRDS are taking our rights away without even have to prove anything.

Your either with us,or you are with the truthseekers.....thats whats really happening...

phew!!!
Take a look at team8 post at
 http://team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?9.879

strange it seems to have vanished off the page here at indymedia...seems to happen a lot.

This thread was extremely focused on discussing the circumstances surrounding the death of Jean Charles De Menezes.

It has been demonstrated in it, I think, that the eyewitnesses statements are 95 % consistant with the version of the facts leaked to ITV.

Then magoo totally disrupted the thread with the help of some of his friends.

Back on topic :

Whitby fails to notice a Denim jacket because De Menezes was seated. As soon as he sees the gun and especially after shots had been fired, all of his attention is focused on it as a potential threat to his own life and his sole cocern is getting out safely which does within seconds. He does not take the leisure to look on the floor to do the reporter later and give himself self importance as magoo as suggested in another thread and thus miss seeing De Menezes body who apparently got grabbed by the first scruffy dressed man who entered the wagon according to Dan Copeland's account who saw things from a different angle.

All Whitby sees is a man in scruffy streetware that enters and seems to trip, followed buy others who seem to bundle on top of the first one. And a gun that shoots five times towards were most of the men were all fallen.

I have listened again to Whitby's statement on the BBC and compared it to BBC's transcript of it that got copied everywhere. There is a huge difference between the two. Almost everything is reworded and some sentences attributed to Whitby don't even exist at all in his interview such as the "cornered rabbit" thing.

To finish with, it has been said today in the press that the undercover officers were having problems to communicate with their radio equipment from inside Stockwell station. The wires seen protruding from the running man by a witness were indeed in fact part of the undercover officers' radio equipment.

Draw your conclusions.

Mine are : the leak is genuine. They followed a man who couldn't be suspected of being a potential suicide bomber and not even of carrying a weapon as he was not carrying a bag and was wearing only a light denim jacket. Then they shot him dead after he got quietly seated in a wagon in Stockwell station.

Sounds to me they have killed him there on purpose. Just to allow Ian Blair to tell us that this should be put into perspective with 7/7 and should not be blamed too much. To tell me that someone from the antiterror forces could now shoot me dead at any time by mistake with total impunity because 52 persons got murdered a few weeks ago.

Next they'll choose who is going to be mistaken for something or someone he is not.

Watch your ass. Death Squads are in existence guys.

By the way, any chance of an enquiry on 7/7 ?

the leak of Menezes

well having read the moving account by
Sir Iain blah in that well regarded independent newspaper 'the news of the world'

as he now says he didn't know Menezes was an innocent man till
24 hours after the incident ...'beep houston we have a problem'
he said he was told, but not those actual words...er ...all this coming a whole month after the actual 'operation' going down...well...it all must be true...what a sad little island this is

why hasn't magoo been labelled a troll by indymedia?
he's off topic and he's offensive

so thanks for those informed 'incites'
[do you see? - i made a play on words!!!]

Just wanted to add a few comments to the Nazi police commanders interview in the dirty vicar rag this sunday.

Sir Ian Blair (killing innocent folk is ok)

LONDON - London's police chief said he wants to ensure Britain's anti-terror investigators are not affected by criticism about the killing of an innocent man, telling a Sunday newspaper their most important task is to prevent further attacks.

London's police have been fiercely criticized after armed officers shot and killed Jean Charles de Menezes, a 27-year-old Brazilian wrongly suspected of being a suicide bomber.


( And so they should be fiercely criticized )

Menezes was shot seven times in the head July 22 by police who tailed him to a subway station the day after four bombs were carried onto London's transit system but failed to detonate fully. Those attacks came two weeks after four suicide bombers killed 52 commuters on the London Underground and a double-decker bus.

"We have to concentrate on how we find the people who are helping or thinking about planning further atrocities," Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair told Sunday's News of the World.


(Easy Sir Blair look in the Mirror,move directly to jail,do not pass go,do not collect 200)


Blair told the newspaper he is making "sure anti-terror investigators are not affected" by the criticism.


(WHAT!!!!)


"I have told them 'This is not your problem,'" Blair was quoted as saying. "For myself, it's a job I have to do. And I am not going to be distracted from the main job, which is finding the terrorists."


(Not their problem,THEY shot an innocent man,and its NOT THEIR PROBLEM!!!!!!!!And as it is your Job,then why where you not updated on the situation as it was happening,I mean its not as if the Brits are shooting people everyday,Are they?) Do your job!!!) Oh and you just might find the terrorists on holiday,the shooter,and the primeminister.Oh and sitting on their bums in M15/6 headquarters

Blair said he did not know the Brazilian was not connected to the attempted bombings until 24 hours after he was shot.

(See wasnt doing his job)


A spokeswoman for the Metropolitan Police confirmed Sunday that the tabloid's interview with Blair was accurate.

"Somebody came in at 10:30 (Saturday) and said the equivalent of 'Houston we have a problem,'" Blair was quoted as saying.

"He didn't use those words but he said: 'We have some difficulty here, there is a lack of connection,'" Blair said. "I thought, 'That's dreadful. What are we going to do about that?'"

("Thats dreadful" What does that mean...dreadful that there is no connection...or dreadful, poor bloody innocent man?)

The Metropolitan Police said Saturday it reviewed the use of deadly force against suspected terrorists following Menezes' killing and made some minor changes.


(Like not in front of CCTV cameras,or witnesses)

A police spokeswoman declined to discuss details of the changes in Operation Kratos, the force's name for what British media call a "shoot-to-kill" policy.

(Which is what it is)

Meanwhile, Britain also reportedly reduced the official level of threat for the first time since the July 7 bombing. The Sunday Telegraph reported that intelligence officials had reduced the threat level from the highest rating of "critical" down to "severe general" because there was no specific intelligence of an imminent repeat of attacks.



But Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott told the British Broadcasting Corp. on Sunday that there remained "a serious threat ... all the time."

(Well there will be with Nazi Blair in power,wont there?)

"We are in a state of high alert, which we need to be," he said.

Blair has said he will not resign over Menezes' killing, which he called "tragic and appalling" and said the police have taken full responsibility for. Britain's top security official, Home Secretary Charles Clarke, who is responsible for policing, said Saturday he had full confidence in Blair.

(Well old big ears would say that he`s a Nazi as well)

Blair has denied there was any police cover-up or attempt to block the Independent Police Complaints Commission's investigation now under way. He also criticized the media for concentrating "on the death of one individual when we have 52 dead people from all faiths and communities in London and from abroad," the News of the World reported.


(Few more murders like this one we will soon be bypassing 52,and anyway mr Nazi police man ALL LIFE IS PRECIOUS didnt you know)


Recently leaked documents from the official complaints commission investigation into Menezes' killing appear to contradict earlier accounts that the Brazilian was wearing a heavy padded coat and jumped over ticket barriers at Stockwell subway station before bolting toward a train.

Police never contradicted those claims.

However, documents leaked to ITV News suggest that Menezes, an electrician, walked casually into the subway station and was wearing a light denim jacket.

Prescott on Sunday called Menezes' killing a "terrible tragedy" but said he still had confidence in the police chief. He also urged patience to allow the police complaints commission finish its investigation and said he would not rule out a full public inquiry.

(How can you have confidence in people who murder innocent people you Nerd ,Wait for another whitewash such as the David Kelly inquiry)

(Lets get a new party into power,and i dont mean the idiot conservative and liberal party.LIKE NOW)

I know Mark, have known him for years - hadn't seen him for 12 years and then I bumped into him by chance two days before the Stockwell incident. He used to play percussion for some reggae bands in Brixton back in the 1980s. I have been thinking for a while that his account of the incident just doesn't match up with the facts - particularly as he seems to have been so close to the shooting and initially noticed so many details. I haven't seen Mark since. Maybe he was just excited and exaggerated a bit - if so he must regret it now. Thanks anyway.